Feb. 23, 2026
Who’s the Real Monster? | Doug Jones Interview & The Shape of Water Deep Dive
What if the “monster” in The Shape of Water is actually the most human character in the room?
In this episode of Parallel Frequencies with Just Blane & Coco, we dive deep into Doug Jones’ unforgettable performance as the Amphibian Man in Guillermo del Toro’s Oscar-winning film. With almost no dialogue, Jones delivers a masterclass in physical acting, subtext, and emotional vulnerability — proving that presence can be more powerful than speech.
We also revisit our in-person interview with Doug Jones at FanX 2025, where he shared a deeply personal story about resilience and purpose. His kindness off-screen mirrors the empathy he brings to every role.
We explore:
- Why The Shape of Water redefines romance
- Michael Shannon’s Strickland as the true monster
- Silent storytelling and body language as emotional architecture
- The cultural and moral layers beneath the fantasy
🎙 Tools we use to create our shows:
- Riverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/7aAMay
- Opus Pro: https://www.opus.pro/pricing?via=5b5b73
- Podpage: https://www.podpage.com/account/signup/?via=just
Subscribe and explore more at: https://www.ridethewave.media
Watch and follow:
- https://YouTube.com/@parallelfrequenciesdaily
- https://YouTube.com/@ridethewavemediapodcast
- https://YouTube.com/@justblanesworld
- https://YouTube.com/@practicallymagickpodcast
- https://Instagram.com/justblanesworld
- https://Instagram.com/ridethewavemedia
🎬 Keep Riding the Frequencies
You’re listening to Parallel Frequencies — daily deep dives into the stories shaping pop culture. Part of the Ride The Wave Media network.
💼 Partner With Ride The Wave Media
Veteran-Built • 10,000+ Programs Produced
Transcript
Just Blane (00:00)
It's parallel frequencies with Just Blane and Coco on a movie Monday here, fresh off the weekend, Coco. How was your weekend?
you
Courtney Pearl (00:08)
of watching movies
in a cozy house next to a fire with my usual mocha coffee and snow a little bit finally.
Just Blane (00:18)
Yeah,
yeah, we got a little bit finally. ⁓ We were way past due, but it was not enough to keep anybody from watching the Game of Thrones, Night of the Seven Kingdoms finale last night. my gosh, it's Game of Thrones once again. Yeah, we're not gonna go any further right now because tomorrow on Tube Tuesday, we're gonna break down that whole season of Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
Courtney Pearl (00:35)
Yeah, can't wait to talk about it tomorrow.
Just Blane (00:45)
And if you are a Game of Thrones fan, which we all are, who's not? I wonder if there's people out there. There are people I'm sure that aren't, none of our freaks I'm sure. I think all of our freaks are probably. fresh off with the Game of Thrones hype, we've got this right here. And I don't think, it came out late last week, but.
Courtney Pearl (00:58)
yeah.
I hope so. You're in the right place you are.
Just Blane (01:11)
I love Game of Thrones and this is the House of Dragons Season 3 trailer. Let's check this thing out together.
Courtney Pearl (01:24)
Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
Just Blane (01:23)
Okay.
I love Damon Targaryen. And this goes back again to once again to the thing you said last week during Night of the Seven Kingdom had you, you know, pulling out the Targaryen family tree. So yeah, but yeah. Yeah. I think we should all be.
Courtney Pearl (01:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, ⁓ I'm in. I'm in deep. And I
am more team Targaryen than I should be because obviously they have a lot of issues and a lot of them didn't deserve to be king and that's not a good side to be on. But how could you not have loved Daenerys Targaryen? I think they did her dirty. And right there in the last scene when they said, ⁓ now you become queen, I was like, she was.
Just Blane (02:00)
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (02:08)
Always queen. Okay, she did not have to prove herself. She was born queen. So that so that just tells you what side I'm on
Just Blane (02:12)
Nah, not at all.
Yeah, I'm hyped about it.
Right? I'm hyped about the dragon one. Not that I, honestly, I wasn't that hyped about Night of the Seven Kingdoms, because it just, it didn't seem like there was going to be dragons, not a lot of action. But that's just a different style of what they're going for, and it's a totally different show. But House of Dragons, one of my favorites. That's one of my favorite Game of Thrones. It's probably, to me,
Courtney Pearl (02:32)
Yeah.
Just Blane (02:43)
Well, at this point, better than Game of Thrones because of how that thing turned into a pile of trash really at the end, but.
Courtney Pearl (02:51)
Very end did a sturdy.
Just Blane (02:52)
Yeah,
they did. So I think they got to make it up to us and House of Dragons really doing that.
But speaking of monsters and all this craziness, let me ask you something right here out of the gate for Movie Monday. When was the last time a monster in a movie made you feel more human? Because that's what our focus today really did in the shape of water. And it was Doug Jones who did that. Doug freaking Jones, how about that? Let's just call him Doug freaking Jones. We've seen,
Courtney Pearl (03:16)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Just Blane (03:24)
Monsters are a whole lives in cinema rubber suits prosthetics CGI chaos, but Doug Jones Doesn't just wear costume. He inhabits it The amphibian man in the shape of water is silent. No monologues. No witty one-liners Just breath movement his eyes Like it's crazy the performance that he put in and built a full emotional arc without dialogue
Courtney Pearl (03:50)
Hmm
Just Blane (03:54)
Just facial freedom, that's what he was using. What did you think about that? Because that in itself is already
a hard feat to do.
Courtney Pearl (04:02)
Yeah, this is, mean, Doug Jones is known for his acting with his body. That's what he's hired and cast for the roles that he plays probably most because he doesn't have to speak, but his body, pans labyrinth, ⁓ hocus pocus, these other things that he's played, I think it's very clear that he's chosen because he can exhibit so much with just body language.
Just Blane (04:06)
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (04:31)
⁓ in researching this role, looking at how he was gonna show movements and emotion without words. ⁓ He studied kind of movements of dogs. So this goes back to our good boy. Like who deserves the awards for best acting if a dog is just being a dog, just being what dogs do. And then there's Doug Jones who is using those same tilts of the head movements.
Just Blane (04:43)
Yeah? Yeah?
Courtney Pearl (04:59)
to look like he's listening or that he's empathetic or that he's curious or what he's playing out there. So I think that's really worth diving into. I'm excited.
Just Blane (05:09)
Yeah, but
you named off some of the stuff he's been in. That's crazy because Doug Jones to me is one of those performers who's been in everything, but somehow still feels like a secret. But it's because he's behind these elaborate costumes and stuff. Hellboy, Pans Labrith, Hocus Pocus, Saru in Star Trek Discovery. A lot of people don't even realize that was him. The man is basically, he's Hollywood's patron saint of elegant weirdness. But you know in,
Courtney Pearl (05:31)
I
What a great career to have if you really think about it.
Just Blane (05:40)
In the shape
of water, he did something different. He made vulnerability look powerful. And this is crazy because to be honest, this is a monster that could have been framed as a threat. Instead, he's the most emotionally intelligent person in the room. That's Doug Jones. That's the one he portrayed. That's what he's putting across for the people that are watching this.
We're to go on and on about how great Doug Jones is. ⁓
Courtney Pearl (06:11)
Yeah, well,
I have said in previous episodes, if any of you freaks out there, remember, I talked about the most romantic thing my husband did for me recently was start reading my favorite Romantic novel. And in the world of Romantic novels, you kind of extend your attraction to certain characters.
to things that you maybe normally wouldn't be attracted to in real life. I think this movie does that because I think the first time I watched it, and this was years ago, probably when it first came out, I was a little bit uncomfortable with like, well, is this okay to have a relationship with a human and this creature? mean, obviously very attractive for many reasons, but ⁓ you you kind of get that feeling of like,
Are we just suspending that thing in our head that says maybe this isn't okay? And in Romanticy, you do that a lot. So now watching it after ⁓ that, I'm all in. I'm like, this is one of the most beautiful romance love stories I think that cinema has ever done. And the fact that she's seeking out someone who is, like you said,
Just Blane (07:09)
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (07:32)
It's more about the emotional intelligence connection that they have that clearly in this movie is showing doesn't exist as well in the real world. Maybe she just hasn't found the guy who measures up in that capacity. If you know what I'm saying.
Just Blane (07:46)
Yeah!
I liked it.
I get what you're saying there. I think maybe Sally Hawkins played Alyssa. Maybe the fact that Doug Jones is the creature, amphibian man, maybe the fact that he did not talk was what was so attractive. I think everybody wants the male side to shut up. So maybe that's what it was.
Courtney Pearl (07:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, both of them were obviously, you know, she's mute in the movie. She communicates with sign, not deaf, but mute. And I think that plays so well in this movie that the two of them, the ones, the two who can't talk communicate the best. If you're really paying attention to the scenes, everyone's interrupting each other. mean, Octavia Spencer playing Zelda is one of my favorite characters in this movie.
Just Blane (08:16)
Yes.
Yeah
Courtney Pearl (08:41)
She never stops talking. She rarely even stops to like check in with her, you know, in the beginning of the movie. ⁓ Obviously she's a good friend. She does better at that as the movie goes on. But she is a great character to highlight what I was saying in that she's constantly complaining about her husband. And you notice how she's always like, he's in a mood today or.
Just Blane (09:00)
Yeah.
Hehehehehe
Courtney Pearl (09:05)
You know, I gotta get home to my husband and you know, all men, don't know what they're doing. They can't trust short men. I love that scene where she's like, can't trust a short man. And then, you know, in the end, her husband shows in the scene that they actually have with him in it, how useless he is. How absolutely like, why is she still with this guy? She must just be with this guy because she has to be. I know in that day and age and even in today's day and age, like
Just Blane (09:23)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (09:35)
You want to be with a partner who cares about you, who adores you. And that's what these romantic novel characters like the aqua man or amphibian man. What are we calling him? Vivian man. And, you know, he exhibits that that role for women. That's like, what would it be like to be truly seen, truly heard and truly adored? Truly.
Just Blane (09:45)
Yeah, Bimmy it man, yeah.
Truly, we had the pleasure of speaking to Doug Jones at FanX 2025. And before we roll that interview, I want you to listen for something. Not just what he says about anything, but how intentional he is about movement, stillness, breath. He is one of the kindest individuals that we ever ran across too. And we got to do this with Promise to Live.
the suicide prevention organization called 988 if you need help now. But let's go check out Doug Jones's interview right here.
Courtney Pearl (10:30)
.
Just Blane (13:55)
this guy completely radiated
kindness. We didn't ask for that story he gave us, he just gave it to us. And that was vulnerable. Just like the characters that he plays, was, that one hit me, it gave me butterflies when I heard him giving that story.
Courtney Pearl (14:15)
Yeah, I'm emotional today. It's crazy. I think in the moment I was just listening to him and ⁓ really grateful to be there in his presence and listening to what he had to say, but listening to it back, I'm like, my gosh.
Just Blane (14:28)
Incredible.
⁓ am glad that he didn't walk over that hill, because we would have all been, it's selfish to say, but we would have all lost something without knowing it really. And this man, to me, is the reason that this movie won the Oscar. But yet he wasn't nominated for a damn award, not one. But there was a lot of people that won awards from this. Best Picture.
Courtney Pearl (14:39)
Yeah.
Just Blane (14:55)
Guillermo del Toro won, I think, something for directing in this. Octavia Spencer either won or was nominated. She's a class, triple A, top S tier actress out there, you know? So she's always gonna be top notch. Sally Hawkins. This movie was a quiet one though. If you remember when it came out to me, it was like a word of mouth. you gotta watch this Shape of Water. you gotta check this out.
Courtney Pearl (14:59)
Mm-hmm.
Fantastic.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just Blane (15:24)
And I love those kinds of movies because yeah, then you really get a community to be able to talk about the moral aspects, the ethical aspects, all of these different things. And it's like you said earlier, it's yeah, it's a reflection. So yeah, go ahead though. Tell us what you think about Doug Jones. Cause you hadn't get to say much. Cause I've been over here praising his everything.
Courtney Pearl (15:44)
Yeah,
we'll just sit here and gush over that beautiful human being who honestly just I think of that day we were there doing press and we met quite a few people and and I think that his booth even just we were there early so it got busier but it was not as busy as I would expect. I think that's because people don't know.
who they don't recognize him because he plays parts that are completely different than what he looks like and three hours of makeup for this movie every day. mean, insane. ⁓ But yeah, I think he deserves all of that alkylase for his ⁓ talent, for his abilities, but he's just a beautiful human being. mean, can tell in those stories, you could get in the kind of merch stuff that they have in the back, you could get a shirt that said Doug Hug.
Just Blane (16:33)
Hmm.
Courtney Pearl (16:40)
I got a Doug hug and I almost bought one. I'm kind of mad that I didn't now, but I was like, we did get a Doug hug. He was handing out hugs left and right. He was so generous with his time, so generous and just the sweetest human ever. So I'm very grateful we got to have that moment with him.
Just Blane (16:47)
We absolutely do.
Yeah, but you can see all of his characters in him. let's talk specifics about his performance and shape of water. Like we talked about it. We mentioned the head tilts, the curiosity, the restraint, the first egg sink. Remember that, like the way he studies her, like she's a miracle instead of prey. Already tells the audience, ⁓ yeah, he's not maybe a threat.
Courtney Pearl (17:05)
Mm-hmm.
Nope.
Thank
Just Blane (17:30)
Maybe he's feeling something. Maybe it's curiosity. Like I said, you got the pink scene.
Courtney Pearl (17:34)
Yeah,
and tell the shift in just subtle subtext is what they call it, I believe, is that the small movements and choices in acting that portray thoughts and portray feelings. And you can see that in, like you said, the way you looked at her. And I loved reading about how when they filmed this together, they had to be really vulnerable with each other. had to be, I mean, this is...
Just Blane (17:41)
Yes. Yes.
Courtney Pearl (18:02)
This is a romance. There's a lot, you know, of physicality going on with the two ⁓ characters, Eliza and the amphibian man. And ⁓ so reading about this, they prepared for their takes together by saying that they loved each other. They would say, love you before the take. I think that's so sweet. I'm just like, I must be having an emotional day. It's the eclipse season, you guys. I'm just like.
Just Blane (18:03)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (18:31)
You
Just Blane (18:34)
I've seen a lot of that. What is this eclipse? Not to get too far off topic, but what is this eclipse we just had or is coming up? What's going on?
Courtney Pearl (18:41)
Listen, I
cannot pretend like I know all about the astrology because I'm more like a seasonal witch, but I do know that this dark moon that we just had week past is in an eclipse season and that is one of the most powerful, intense energies going on. I believe, what is it? Neptune, which is emotions and water feelings, ⁓ is in Aries, which is a fire sign. Fire and passion and aggressiveness kind of.
Just Blane (19:09)
Woo!
Courtney Pearl (19:10)
energy is like how I think of it. so, and I think Saturn is in Aries, I believe. Someone out there knows astrology better than I do, they can tell me. But ⁓ I do keep up a little bit on these things because I try to live my life in these seasons and cycles. I know I'm not separate from them. And as well as I ⁓ tried to just be a human and the emotions caught up with me anyway. So it's been like...
not sleeping, foggy brain, emotional. yeah, freaks are gonna have to just forgive me for... Yeah, we're gonna have to power through it, guys. We're in this together. We can do this. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Just Blane (19:47)
We got the power through all of us gonna have to power through
The tank scene, the quiet rage
we feel when he's tortured. You feel the injustice in his posture before you see it in his face. And that's once again, the performance of Doug Jones. You know what actors talk about finding the character? I think Doug builds these characters from the inside out. I think he does it himself. And it's like you said earlier, we don't necessarily know that it's him most of the time because
Courtney Pearl (20:16)
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Just Blane (20:24)
He's always in a suit. You know, so that's crazy that he's this, there's other people like that. Andy Sirdakis, I think is his name. ⁓ The guy that does all the mocap stuff for Lord of the Rings. He did Gollum, he does all of King Kong's. Another one that's not, doesn't get as much love as he should.
Courtney Pearl (20:43)
I know, I hope they're like paid extra or something for all the hours they spend in the makeup. I don't know how things work in Hollywood, but I would just like to think that they deserve something for compensation for all that time in the chair. That's hard work.
Just Blane (20:54)
Have to, they'd
have to, cause he's putting in six to eight hours before shooting to get prosthetics and makeup and whatever else. You gotta have some patience for that.
Courtney Pearl (21:05)
Yeah. Yeah. And the character development, I read there were 40 page backstories for each character in this movie. So there's a lot of research, a lot of work being done. And I think it comes through. mean, I think you can tell Eliza has this whole backstory about being an orphan and, you know, where she came from, even her last name, meaning exposed in Italian, because that's what they gave ⁓ orphans in the.
Just Blane (21:11)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (21:35)
orphanage so there's all this
Context and layers to their characters.
Just Blane (21:40)
which is great storytelling and that's Guillermo del Toro doing his thing. And this is one of those movies though that he made that wasn't really terrifying like a pan's labyrinth, but still had some of those moments where you're like questioning things. And I love that because he always gives us that we should do Frankenstein. We should make sure we get Frankenstein in pretty soon.
Courtney Pearl (22:02)
we will. it's on
my list, guys. Don't you worry. Queen of the schedule right here has got that one coming up.
Just Blane (22:09)
I love the
queen of the schedule. If you guys out there want to hear us talk about something that we haven't, hit us up, DM us, talk to Coco. Let us know. Let us know. What's your final thoughts on, what's your final, yeah, not me, don't hit me up. Hands off. What's your final thoughts on the shape of water and really our focus on Doug Jones here?
Courtney Pearl (22:16)
Yeah, or get it on the schedule. Yeah, you gotta talk to me.
Okay, I need to take a second to talk about the decaying fingers of Strickland. This character, oh my gosh, let's see, Michael Shannon, who plays Strickland in this. mean, kind of the evil, bad guy to the amphibian man's good guy. I mean, there's gotta be that push and pull going on there because he's supposed to be the creature. He's supposed to be the quote unquote monster, but.
Just Blane (22:35)
yes.
Yeah!
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (22:58)
always come back to ⁓ the hunchback of Notre Dame when they're singing, is the monster and who is the man? Because it reveals sorry about my singing guys, sorry. ⁓ But it reveals that who we thought was the monster because they look different or they, ⁓ you know, are misunderstood or, or, you know, whatever the reason the hunchback in the back of Notre Dame, it's like,
but who really actually is the monster. The guy who tries to get himself a teal Cadillac and go home to his wife and kids and is trying to get promoted and make his quota and he's icky, absolute, like the way that he treats Eliza, like a piece of meat and just everything about that. I keep coming back to the line that he says,
What does the Lord look like? When he says to Octavia Spencer's character Zelda, what does the Lord look like? Because he's trying to say it doesn't look like that creature. We are made in the Lord's image. That creature was not made in the Lord's image. What does the Lord look like? I think he looks more like me. And you will actually more like me when he's talking to her. And I looked at my husband and I said,
Just Blane (23:56)
yeah.
More like me, yeah.
Courtney Pearl (24:23)
I mean, if we're talking about Jesus, I think maybe he looks more like Octavia. He was Middle Eastern. I don't know why people keep thinking he looks more like you. But yeah, that just seething racist bigot misogyny guy from the 60s that he encompasses in this movie and then just full on shooting people at the end.
Just Blane (24:27)
Yeah.
negative truth.
Well,
let me throw this little factoid at you, but there was some foreshadowing about exactly what you said in the opening sequence. During the credits, the narrator's talking and says, and the monster who wanted to destroy it all, as Michael Shannon's name pops up on the screen.
Courtney Pearl (25:08)
Interesting. I didn't catch that. But yeah, I did catch the monster.
Just Blane (25:08)
same time. It goes with your, goes with your idea. Yep, that it implies that his character,
a human man, is the real monster and not the amphibian man. But it happens right there, foreshadowing in the opening credits of the movie.
Go check it out again. That's worth watching again for. Go watch the opening credits. I love this movie.
Courtney Pearl (25:28)
Right. And
for every man out there watching this movie as a, what do I do to become a better man? Look towards the amphibian man as your guide in how to treat your lady or partner and how to be a considerate person in the world. There it is.
Just Blane (25:39)
Yeah
Yeah, the amphibian man showed
us. You don't have to be loud, you just gotta be present. You don't have to dominate the room to change it. Sometimes you just have to move differently, literally. Maybe that's the lesson from Shape of Water. Learn how to move different. Learn how to.
Courtney Pearl (26:06)
Learn how to flow. Flow like water.
Just Blane (26:07)
Flow, flow, that was the word I was looking at.
See our frequencies are like this and then every once in a while they diverge or something. And we hit that, that synchronicity, how about that? I liked it. But she.
Courtney Pearl (26:19)
Yeah, yeah, let
those that water wash right over you ⁓
Just Blane (26:25)
Yeah,
okay, okay. Too much water now. We're getting into some, but no.
Courtney Pearl (26:32)
feelings. We're having all the feelings.
Just Blane (26:35)
Got tears flowing on today's show with a Doug Jones interview. But yeah, I guarantee you won't be the only one that hears that, Coco, and does that because that's a beautiful story. So this is parallel frequencies with Just Blane and Coco. We're gonna have more interviews for you too. And don't forget tomorrow, Night of the Seven Kingdoms breakdown. If you haven't caught up. It's not that long, freaks.
Courtney Pearl (26:53)
See ya. Yeah.
Just Blane (27:04)
You can watch it like two and a half hours and be done. Check it out. We're to talk about that tomorrow right here on parallel frequencies. We'll see you on the other side.
Courtney Pearl (27:11)
Yes.
It's parallel frequencies with Just Blane and Coco on a movie Monday here, fresh off the weekend, Coco. How was your weekend?
you
Courtney Pearl (00:08)
of watching movies
in a cozy house next to a fire with my usual mocha coffee and snow a little bit finally.
Just Blane (00:18)
Yeah,
yeah, we got a little bit finally. ⁓ We were way past due, but it was not enough to keep anybody from watching the Game of Thrones, Night of the Seven Kingdoms finale last night. my gosh, it's Game of Thrones once again. Yeah, we're not gonna go any further right now because tomorrow on Tube Tuesday, we're gonna break down that whole season of Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
Courtney Pearl (00:35)
Yeah, can't wait to talk about it tomorrow.
Just Blane (00:45)
And if you are a Game of Thrones fan, which we all are, who's not? I wonder if there's people out there. There are people I'm sure that aren't, none of our freaks I'm sure. I think all of our freaks are probably. fresh off with the Game of Thrones hype, we've got this right here. And I don't think, it came out late last week, but.
Courtney Pearl (00:58)
yeah.
I hope so. You're in the right place you are.
Just Blane (01:11)
I love Game of Thrones and this is the House of Dragons Season 3 trailer. Let's check this thing out together.
Courtney Pearl (01:24)
Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
Just Blane (01:23)
Okay.
I love Damon Targaryen. And this goes back again to once again to the thing you said last week during Night of the Seven Kingdom had you, you know, pulling out the Targaryen family tree. So yeah, but yeah. Yeah. I think we should all be.
Courtney Pearl (01:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, ⁓ I'm in. I'm in deep. And I
am more team Targaryen than I should be because obviously they have a lot of issues and a lot of them didn't deserve to be king and that's not a good side to be on. But how could you not have loved Daenerys Targaryen? I think they did her dirty. And right there in the last scene when they said, ⁓ now you become queen, I was like, she was.
Just Blane (02:00)
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (02:08)
Always queen. Okay, she did not have to prove herself. She was born queen. So that so that just tells you what side I'm on
Just Blane (02:12)
Nah, not at all.
Yeah, I'm hyped about it.
Right? I'm hyped about the dragon one. Not that I, honestly, I wasn't that hyped about Night of the Seven Kingdoms, because it just, it didn't seem like there was going to be dragons, not a lot of action. But that's just a different style of what they're going for, and it's a totally different show. But House of Dragons, one of my favorites. That's one of my favorite Game of Thrones. It's probably, to me,
Courtney Pearl (02:32)
Yeah.
Just Blane (02:43)
Well, at this point, better than Game of Thrones because of how that thing turned into a pile of trash really at the end, but.
Courtney Pearl (02:51)
Very end did a sturdy.
Just Blane (02:52)
Yeah,
they did. So I think they got to make it up to us and House of Dragons really doing that.
But speaking of monsters and all this craziness, let me ask you something right here out of the gate for Movie Monday. When was the last time a monster in a movie made you feel more human? Because that's what our focus today really did in the shape of water. And it was Doug Jones who did that. Doug freaking Jones, how about that? Let's just call him Doug freaking Jones. We've seen,
Courtney Pearl (03:16)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Just Blane (03:24)
Monsters are a whole lives in cinema rubber suits prosthetics CGI chaos, but Doug Jones Doesn't just wear costume. He inhabits it The amphibian man in the shape of water is silent. No monologues. No witty one-liners Just breath movement his eyes Like it's crazy the performance that he put in and built a full emotional arc without dialogue
Courtney Pearl (03:50)
Hmm
Just Blane (03:54)
Just facial freedom, that's what he was using. What did you think about that? Because that in itself is already
a hard feat to do.
Courtney Pearl (04:02)
Yeah, this is, mean, Doug Jones is known for his acting with his body. That's what he's hired and cast for the roles that he plays probably most because he doesn't have to speak, but his body, pans labyrinth, ⁓ hocus pocus, these other things that he's played, I think it's very clear that he's chosen because he can exhibit so much with just body language.
Just Blane (04:06)
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (04:31)
⁓ in researching this role, looking at how he was gonna show movements and emotion without words. ⁓ He studied kind of movements of dogs. So this goes back to our good boy. Like who deserves the awards for best acting if a dog is just being a dog, just being what dogs do. And then there's Doug Jones who is using those same tilts of the head movements.
Just Blane (04:43)
Yeah? Yeah?
Courtney Pearl (04:59)
to look like he's listening or that he's empathetic or that he's curious or what he's playing out there. So I think that's really worth diving into. I'm excited.
Just Blane (05:09)
Yeah, but
you named off some of the stuff he's been in. That's crazy because Doug Jones to me is one of those performers who's been in everything, but somehow still feels like a secret. But it's because he's behind these elaborate costumes and stuff. Hellboy, Pans Labrith, Hocus Pocus, Saru in Star Trek Discovery. A lot of people don't even realize that was him. The man is basically, he's Hollywood's patron saint of elegant weirdness. But you know in,
Courtney Pearl (05:31)
I
What a great career to have if you really think about it.
Just Blane (05:40)
In the shape
of water, he did something different. He made vulnerability look powerful. And this is crazy because to be honest, this is a monster that could have been framed as a threat. Instead, he's the most emotionally intelligent person in the room. That's Doug Jones. That's the one he portrayed. That's what he's putting across for the people that are watching this.
We're to go on and on about how great Doug Jones is. ⁓
Courtney Pearl (06:11)
Yeah, well,
I have said in previous episodes, if any of you freaks out there, remember, I talked about the most romantic thing my husband did for me recently was start reading my favorite Romantic novel. And in the world of Romantic novels, you kind of extend your attraction to certain characters.
to things that you maybe normally wouldn't be attracted to in real life. I think this movie does that because I think the first time I watched it, and this was years ago, probably when it first came out, I was a little bit uncomfortable with like, well, is this okay to have a relationship with a human and this creature? mean, obviously very attractive for many reasons, but ⁓ you you kind of get that feeling of like,
Are we just suspending that thing in our head that says maybe this isn't okay? And in Romanticy, you do that a lot. So now watching it after ⁓ that, I'm all in. I'm like, this is one of the most beautiful romance love stories I think that cinema has ever done. And the fact that she's seeking out someone who is, like you said,
Just Blane (07:09)
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (07:32)
It's more about the emotional intelligence connection that they have that clearly in this movie is showing doesn't exist as well in the real world. Maybe she just hasn't found the guy who measures up in that capacity. If you know what I'm saying.
Just Blane (07:46)
Yeah!
I liked it.
I get what you're saying there. I think maybe Sally Hawkins played Alyssa. Maybe the fact that Doug Jones is the creature, amphibian man, maybe the fact that he did not talk was what was so attractive. I think everybody wants the male side to shut up. So maybe that's what it was.
Courtney Pearl (07:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, both of them were obviously, you know, she's mute in the movie. She communicates with sign, not deaf, but mute. And I think that plays so well in this movie that the two of them, the ones, the two who can't talk communicate the best. If you're really paying attention to the scenes, everyone's interrupting each other. mean, Octavia Spencer playing Zelda is one of my favorite characters in this movie.
Just Blane (08:16)
Yes.
Yeah
Courtney Pearl (08:41)
She never stops talking. She rarely even stops to like check in with her, you know, in the beginning of the movie. ⁓ Obviously she's a good friend. She does better at that as the movie goes on. But she is a great character to highlight what I was saying in that she's constantly complaining about her husband. And you notice how she's always like, he's in a mood today or.
Just Blane (09:00)
Yeah.
Hehehehehe
Courtney Pearl (09:05)
You know, I gotta get home to my husband and you know, all men, don't know what they're doing. They can't trust short men. I love that scene where she's like, can't trust a short man. And then, you know, in the end, her husband shows in the scene that they actually have with him in it, how useless he is. How absolutely like, why is she still with this guy? She must just be with this guy because she has to be. I know in that day and age and even in today's day and age, like
Just Blane (09:23)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (09:35)
You want to be with a partner who cares about you, who adores you. And that's what these romantic novel characters like the aqua man or amphibian man. What are we calling him? Vivian man. And, you know, he exhibits that that role for women. That's like, what would it be like to be truly seen, truly heard and truly adored? Truly.
Just Blane (09:45)
Yeah, Bimmy it man, yeah.
Truly, we had the pleasure of speaking to Doug Jones at FanX 2025. And before we roll that interview, I want you to listen for something. Not just what he says about anything, but how intentional he is about movement, stillness, breath. He is one of the kindest individuals that we ever ran across too. And we got to do this with Promise to Live.
the suicide prevention organization called 988 if you need help now. But let's go check out Doug Jones's interview right here.
Courtney Pearl (10:30)
.
Just Blane (13:55)
this guy completely radiated
kindness. We didn't ask for that story he gave us, he just gave it to us. And that was vulnerable. Just like the characters that he plays, was, that one hit me, it gave me butterflies when I heard him giving that story.
Courtney Pearl (14:15)
Yeah, I'm emotional today. It's crazy. I think in the moment I was just listening to him and ⁓ really grateful to be there in his presence and listening to what he had to say, but listening to it back, I'm like, my gosh.
Just Blane (14:28)
Incredible.
⁓ am glad that he didn't walk over that hill, because we would have all been, it's selfish to say, but we would have all lost something without knowing it really. And this man, to me, is the reason that this movie won the Oscar. But yet he wasn't nominated for a damn award, not one. But there was a lot of people that won awards from this. Best Picture.
Courtney Pearl (14:39)
Yeah.
Just Blane (14:55)
Guillermo del Toro won, I think, something for directing in this. Octavia Spencer either won or was nominated. She's a class, triple A, top S tier actress out there, you know? So she's always gonna be top notch. Sally Hawkins. This movie was a quiet one though. If you remember when it came out to me, it was like a word of mouth. you gotta watch this Shape of Water. you gotta check this out.
Courtney Pearl (14:59)
Mm-hmm.
Fantastic.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just Blane (15:24)
And I love those kinds of movies because yeah, then you really get a community to be able to talk about the moral aspects, the ethical aspects, all of these different things. And it's like you said earlier, it's yeah, it's a reflection. So yeah, go ahead though. Tell us what you think about Doug Jones. Cause you hadn't get to say much. Cause I've been over here praising his everything.
Courtney Pearl (15:44)
Yeah,
we'll just sit here and gush over that beautiful human being who honestly just I think of that day we were there doing press and we met quite a few people and and I think that his booth even just we were there early so it got busier but it was not as busy as I would expect. I think that's because people don't know.
who they don't recognize him because he plays parts that are completely different than what he looks like and three hours of makeup for this movie every day. mean, insane. ⁓ But yeah, I think he deserves all of that alkylase for his ⁓ talent, for his abilities, but he's just a beautiful human being. mean, can tell in those stories, you could get in the kind of merch stuff that they have in the back, you could get a shirt that said Doug Hug.
Just Blane (16:33)
Hmm.
Courtney Pearl (16:40)
I got a Doug hug and I almost bought one. I'm kind of mad that I didn't now, but I was like, we did get a Doug hug. He was handing out hugs left and right. He was so generous with his time, so generous and just the sweetest human ever. So I'm very grateful we got to have that moment with him.
Just Blane (16:47)
We absolutely do.
Yeah, but you can see all of his characters in him. let's talk specifics about his performance and shape of water. Like we talked about it. We mentioned the head tilts, the curiosity, the restraint, the first egg sink. Remember that, like the way he studies her, like she's a miracle instead of prey. Already tells the audience, ⁓ yeah, he's not maybe a threat.
Courtney Pearl (17:05)
Mm-hmm.
Nope.
Thank
Just Blane (17:30)
Maybe he's feeling something. Maybe it's curiosity. Like I said, you got the pink scene.
Courtney Pearl (17:34)
Yeah,
and tell the shift in just subtle subtext is what they call it, I believe, is that the small movements and choices in acting that portray thoughts and portray feelings. And you can see that in, like you said, the way you looked at her. And I loved reading about how when they filmed this together, they had to be really vulnerable with each other. had to be, I mean, this is...
Just Blane (17:41)
Yes. Yes.
Courtney Pearl (18:02)
This is a romance. There's a lot, you know, of physicality going on with the two ⁓ characters, Eliza and the amphibian man. And ⁓ so reading about this, they prepared for their takes together by saying that they loved each other. They would say, love you before the take. I think that's so sweet. I'm just like, I must be having an emotional day. It's the eclipse season, you guys. I'm just like.
Just Blane (18:03)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (18:31)
You
Just Blane (18:34)
I've seen a lot of that. What is this eclipse? Not to get too far off topic, but what is this eclipse we just had or is coming up? What's going on?
Courtney Pearl (18:41)
Listen, I
cannot pretend like I know all about the astrology because I'm more like a seasonal witch, but I do know that this dark moon that we just had week past is in an eclipse season and that is one of the most powerful, intense energies going on. I believe, what is it? Neptune, which is emotions and water feelings, ⁓ is in Aries, which is a fire sign. Fire and passion and aggressiveness kind of.
Just Blane (19:09)
Woo!
Courtney Pearl (19:10)
energy is like how I think of it. so, and I think Saturn is in Aries, I believe. Someone out there knows astrology better than I do, they can tell me. But ⁓ I do keep up a little bit on these things because I try to live my life in these seasons and cycles. I know I'm not separate from them. And as well as I ⁓ tried to just be a human and the emotions caught up with me anyway. So it's been like...
not sleeping, foggy brain, emotional. yeah, freaks are gonna have to just forgive me for... Yeah, we're gonna have to power through it, guys. We're in this together. We can do this. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Just Blane (19:47)
We got the power through all of us gonna have to power through
The tank scene, the quiet rage
we feel when he's tortured. You feel the injustice in his posture before you see it in his face. And that's once again, the performance of Doug Jones. You know what actors talk about finding the character? I think Doug builds these characters from the inside out. I think he does it himself. And it's like you said earlier, we don't necessarily know that it's him most of the time because
Courtney Pearl (20:16)
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Just Blane (20:24)
He's always in a suit. You know, so that's crazy that he's this, there's other people like that. Andy Sirdakis, I think is his name. ⁓ The guy that does all the mocap stuff for Lord of the Rings. He did Gollum, he does all of King Kong's. Another one that's not, doesn't get as much love as he should.
Courtney Pearl (20:43)
I know, I hope they're like paid extra or something for all the hours they spend in the makeup. I don't know how things work in Hollywood, but I would just like to think that they deserve something for compensation for all that time in the chair. That's hard work.
Just Blane (20:54)
Have to, they'd
have to, cause he's putting in six to eight hours before shooting to get prosthetics and makeup and whatever else. You gotta have some patience for that.
Courtney Pearl (21:05)
Yeah. Yeah. And the character development, I read there were 40 page backstories for each character in this movie. So there's a lot of research, a lot of work being done. And I think it comes through. mean, I think you can tell Eliza has this whole backstory about being an orphan and, you know, where she came from, even her last name, meaning exposed in Italian, because that's what they gave ⁓ orphans in the.
Just Blane (21:11)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (21:35)
orphanage so there's all this
Context and layers to their characters.
Just Blane (21:40)
which is great storytelling and that's Guillermo del Toro doing his thing. And this is one of those movies though that he made that wasn't really terrifying like a pan's labyrinth, but still had some of those moments where you're like questioning things. And I love that because he always gives us that we should do Frankenstein. We should make sure we get Frankenstein in pretty soon.
Courtney Pearl (22:02)
we will. it's on
my list, guys. Don't you worry. Queen of the schedule right here has got that one coming up.
Just Blane (22:09)
I love the
queen of the schedule. If you guys out there want to hear us talk about something that we haven't, hit us up, DM us, talk to Coco. Let us know. Let us know. What's your final thoughts on, what's your final, yeah, not me, don't hit me up. Hands off. What's your final thoughts on the shape of water and really our focus on Doug Jones here?
Courtney Pearl (22:16)
Yeah, or get it on the schedule. Yeah, you gotta talk to me.
Okay, I need to take a second to talk about the decaying fingers of Strickland. This character, oh my gosh, let's see, Michael Shannon, who plays Strickland in this. mean, kind of the evil, bad guy to the amphibian man's good guy. I mean, there's gotta be that push and pull going on there because he's supposed to be the creature. He's supposed to be the quote unquote monster, but.
Just Blane (22:35)
yes.
Yeah!
Yeah.
Courtney Pearl (22:58)
always come back to ⁓ the hunchback of Notre Dame when they're singing, is the monster and who is the man? Because it reveals sorry about my singing guys, sorry. ⁓ But it reveals that who we thought was the monster because they look different or they, ⁓ you know, are misunderstood or, or, you know, whatever the reason the hunchback in the back of Notre Dame, it's like,
but who really actually is the monster. The guy who tries to get himself a teal Cadillac and go home to his wife and kids and is trying to get promoted and make his quota and he's icky, absolute, like the way that he treats Eliza, like a piece of meat and just everything about that. I keep coming back to the line that he says,
What does the Lord look like? When he says to Octavia Spencer's character Zelda, what does the Lord look like? Because he's trying to say it doesn't look like that creature. We are made in the Lord's image. That creature was not made in the Lord's image. What does the Lord look like? I think he looks more like me. And you will actually more like me when he's talking to her. And I looked at my husband and I said,
Just Blane (23:56)
yeah.
More like me, yeah.
Courtney Pearl (24:23)
I mean, if we're talking about Jesus, I think maybe he looks more like Octavia. He was Middle Eastern. I don't know why people keep thinking he looks more like you. But yeah, that just seething racist bigot misogyny guy from the 60s that he encompasses in this movie and then just full on shooting people at the end.
Just Blane (24:27)
Yeah.
negative truth.
Well,
let me throw this little factoid at you, but there was some foreshadowing about exactly what you said in the opening sequence. During the credits, the narrator's talking and says, and the monster who wanted to destroy it all, as Michael Shannon's name pops up on the screen.
Courtney Pearl (25:08)
Interesting. I didn't catch that. But yeah, I did catch the monster.
Just Blane (25:08)
same time. It goes with your, goes with your idea. Yep, that it implies that his character,
a human man, is the real monster and not the amphibian man. But it happens right there, foreshadowing in the opening credits of the movie.
Go check it out again. That's worth watching again for. Go watch the opening credits. I love this movie.
Courtney Pearl (25:28)
Right. And
for every man out there watching this movie as a, what do I do to become a better man? Look towards the amphibian man as your guide in how to treat your lady or partner and how to be a considerate person in the world. There it is.
Just Blane (25:39)
Yeah
Yeah, the amphibian man showed
us. You don't have to be loud, you just gotta be present. You don't have to dominate the room to change it. Sometimes you just have to move differently, literally. Maybe that's the lesson from Shape of Water. Learn how to move different. Learn how to.
Courtney Pearl (26:06)
Learn how to flow. Flow like water.
Just Blane (26:07)
Flow, flow, that was the word I was looking at.
See our frequencies are like this and then every once in a while they diverge or something. And we hit that, that synchronicity, how about that? I liked it. But she.
Courtney Pearl (26:19)
Yeah, yeah, let
those that water wash right over you ⁓
Just Blane (26:25)
Yeah,
okay, okay. Too much water now. We're getting into some, but no.
Courtney Pearl (26:32)
feelings. We're having all the feelings.
Just Blane (26:35)
Got tears flowing on today's show with a Doug Jones interview. But yeah, I guarantee you won't be the only one that hears that, Coco, and does that because that's a beautiful story. So this is parallel frequencies with Just Blane and Coco. We're gonna have more interviews for you too. And don't forget tomorrow, Night of the Seven Kingdoms breakdown. If you haven't caught up. It's not that long, freaks.
Courtney Pearl (26:53)
See ya. Yeah.
Just Blane (27:04)
You can watch it like two and a half hours and be done. Check it out. We're to talk about that tomorrow right here on parallel frequencies. We'll see you on the other side.
Courtney Pearl (27:11)
Yes.