The Bride Is the Most Important Frankenstein Film Ever Made — And It's Not Even Close

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Two monster films, both reimagining the same

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source material, both dropping in the same cultural

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moment, but from two radically different directorial

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perspectives. Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein

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and Maggie Gyllenhaal's The Bride, and I'm telling

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you right now, it's not a competition, it's a

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conversation. Welcome to Parallel Frequencies.

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I am Just Blaine, she is Coco, and you are the

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freaks. What is up, Coco? I'm excited about today's

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show. Yeah. In a minute. Where you been? What

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you been doing? It's been crazy. It's summertime

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hit. There's no need to keep with schedules.

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There's no need to even plan to do anything.

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So parallel frequencies, we'll just say this

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right now. Who knows what's going to happen this

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summer? We may miss days. And then we can just

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blow that structure right out of the water and

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do whatever we want. Yeah, but we're going to

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just, you know, have a fun summer. That's what

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we're going to do. Have a fun summer. But it's

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been chaos so far. We've missed the last couple

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of days. I don't even think the schedule is going

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to be out anymore. So we're just going to surprise

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people with what we're going to talk about. Because

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literally, that's what this one was. This was

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not on our docket, our schedule, our radar. It's

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been on our radar for a minute, I guess. That's

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for sure. Oh, yeah. For sure, when I saw the

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trailer, I thought, this is one I'm not going

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to miss. Yeah, but you literally text me last

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night. You're like, hey, I watched The Bride.

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And then this morning, you're like, hey, let's

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talk about The Bride and Frankenstein together.

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So that's what we'll do today. I wanted to know,

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though, what are you watching? What are you watching

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these days, Coco? Yeah, I wouldn't have much

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time. Otherwise, I don't know how I found the

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time. But I just happen to be, you know, how

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one thing you're watching ends and then you're

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like, I'm not ready to turn the TV off. So let's

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find something else. So I was actually watching

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the Crash documentary on... Oh, Netflix. Netflix.

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And then I switched over to Max and ended up

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watching the first season. I'm part of the way

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through the first season of The White Lotus.

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Ooh, okay. Okay, now hold on there. I have to

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apologize to everybody who's already been on

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this bandwagon because it's like three or four

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seasons in and I am just now starting it. And

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everybody's going to be like, where you been?

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What is it about shows like this? Like, this

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is a huge show. People that don't watch this

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know what this show is. They've heard of it.

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But what is it that keeps us? Because I haven't

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watched it yet, and I don't know. Let's figure

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this out. Let's talk about this. Freaks chime

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in. What keeps us from watching these big -name

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shows until they're two, three, four seasons

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deep? What is it? I am trying to figure that

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out psychologically. I'm trying to ask myself,

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you know, a little self -reflection, if you will.

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And, like, what is it about this show? Because

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it has all the ingredients of everything that

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I would have liked. And it's not the first show

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that I've done this with. I know who's in it.

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I love them. You know, Jennifer Coolidge. Steve

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Zahn. I don't know what it is about him, but

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I'm a huge Steve Zahn fan. I think he's the funniest

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guy. Ever. And he's also not bad looking. So

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I like Steve Zahn. I got a crush on him. But

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what is it about shows like this that you're

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like, clearly I'm hearing about it everywhere.

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Everybody who's seen it loves it. Why don't I

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give it a chance until like way late? And then

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I'm like, yeah, let's just turn it on. I'm bored.

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There are lots of shows like that. And it's almost

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like if you didn't get in when they were premiering,

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then it's like you miss out. On that initial

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burst and you're too late by the time season

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two is out. So you're like, ah, these people,

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they got their own conversations going. I also

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think that this might be a little controversial

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here, but I also think that the fans of specific

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shows keep other people from wanting to watch

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them. Hear me out. I think it's this fandom that

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might go. past the levels of fandom and it might

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scare some people away. I'm going to tell you

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right now, I've never watched Doctor Who. I'm

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intimidated. I am intimidated to watch Doctor

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Who because of the fandom that's been built around

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it. And I'm not saying there's gatekeepers out

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there keeping me from watching it. I just, there's

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something intimidating about some of these shows

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that have built up this huge legacy before I've

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even seen it. There's another one on my radar

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from This show on MGM Plus from, I'm a huge Lost

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fan. And this thing's got Lost vibes all over.

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It's even got one of the guys from Lost in it

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playing the main character. And this thing I

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hear is incredible, but I cannot bring myself

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to watching it. I don't know why. And I know,

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I know it's right in my ballpark for what I like

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to view, you know? So I don't know. I think it

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is. I think it's a mix of all that stuff, Coco.

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What are you thinking? What do you think over

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there? You think that makes sense? I feel you

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on the Doctor Who because I know some Doctor

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Who fans that are just like all out. And I don't

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doubt that it's probably a great show. I probably

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would get really into it. But maybe I'm a little

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bit afraid that I won't be as into it as they

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are and they're where I don't deserve to be a

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fan or something. You know, like you have to

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be like all in or not enough. I don't know. Maybe

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it's a little bit of that. But I have kept myself

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with my head buried in the sand just enough to

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not know how season one of The White Lotus ends.

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So at this very moment, I don't know what's going

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to happen. And that's what keeps me going. I'm

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at midnight last night knowing I had to get up

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early this morning. And I was still like, just

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one more episode. I just want to see how this

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turns out. There's just one more. I'm going to

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have to check that show out because they're three,

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four, five seasons deep now, I think. So I'm

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going to have to make sure I get on that bandwagon

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finally. But we've been to cons and fan acts

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and all these places where these fandoms converge.

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And I'm not trying to say that they're not friendly.

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That's not it at all. It's just intimidating.

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I think it's intimidating to get into a, it'd

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be like, it would be like somebody of my age.

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never seen Star Wars, anything, and all of a

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sudden they want to jump in. That's overwhelming.

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That's a lot. You know, that's a lot. And are

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you the type of person that if you saw a person,

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you saw a young person wearing a Nirvana t -shirt,

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you'd be like, you can't wear that shirt. You

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don't know who Nirvana is. Like, are you one

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of those? Or is it like, be a fan in whatever

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capacity you want to be? Yes, I think, I love,

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look, I've seen the kids around the neighborhood

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wearing the Nirvana t -shirts. Me and my wife

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even saw them. We were walking around the other

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day and Lindsay, she looked at me, she's like,

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I bet they can't name three Nirvana songs. I'm

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like, yeah, it's true. It's true, but I don't

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have a problem with it because I think it keeps

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the culture alive too. I think it's, even if

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you don't know, there could be people out there

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soon wearing I'm a freak shirts and never heard

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this show Parallel Frequencies at all. You know,

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but that's what I'm looking at. If they were

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wearing it, I'd be thrilled. Yeah, but it builds

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culture. Would you have a problem of somebody

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wearing an I'm a freak shirt that doesn't listen

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to our show? Nah, not at all. Not at all. We

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brought up some good stuff here. I think we've

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done a full show already, so we'll wrap this

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thing up. No, I'm kidding. Let's get to Movie

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Monday, Trophy Tuesday. It's just, it's something.

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Today's a day, okay? But let's acknowledge something

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right off the bat. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein

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in 1818. She was 19 years old, 19 years old.

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We are still mining that story for new meaning

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200 years later, over 200 years later. That should

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tell you something about the depth of what she

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created right there off the top. It's not just

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a monster story. It never was. It was. about

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creation and abandonment, about who gets to define

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what's human, about the cruelty of being brought

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into a world that doesn't want you. All of those

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things come together. Does it sound familiar

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to you out there? There are a million different

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angles and sides and themes. And yeah, Mary Shelley,

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the mother of science fiction. I know there's

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probably a lot of debate on that, and I'm sure

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there are people that could pull some sort of

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random literature from earlier and say, well,

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what about this? Isn't this science fiction?

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But can we really think of anything that has

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quite the impact that Frankenstein has had? And,

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you know, before then, the genre of science fiction

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really wasn't even a thing. I mean, they had

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some basic, you know, there's horror and there's

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romance and... But then there's this whole new

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element that comes with Frankenstein that, yeah,

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it brings about this whole moral questioning

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into it. And, oh, I can't wait to get into it

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because The Bride. Yes. Maggie Gyllenhaal crushed

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it with that movie. I'm going to tell you that

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right now. But I want to tell you right now the

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reason that Frankenstein and The Bride counts,

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too. When we say Frankenstein, we're counting

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all of this because it's all under the same literature.

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Really? Like I said, 200 years ago, she wrote

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this. And, you know, it's not being remade because

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of the nostalgia. It's because we keep needing

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this type of story. It's the mirror that I always

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talk about. It's the mirror that we're looking

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at that always still, to this day, even from

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1818, is still relevant. We're looking at that.

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And that's why we keep needing the Frankenstein

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or the bride stories. particular cultural moment,

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let's say, you got two filmmakers from total

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opposite sides, really. Oh, yeah. But they looked

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at that mirror at the same time, and what they

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saw, it was worth talking about. Guillermo and

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Maggie both had deep, deep layers, just like

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Mary Shelley's original work did. Yes. And, yeah,

00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:25.799
go ahead. Before we get into it, go ahead. What

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were you going to say right there, Coco? Where

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to even start? I mean, I'll be honest with the

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freaks. We had Frankenstein on the schedule.

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Okay, so we wanted to kind of delve into the

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Father's Day, you know, coming up. We did a bunch

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of mothers, movies, and things associated with

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mothers. So going into June, we were like, let's

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do a bunch of fathers. And Father -Son Dynamic

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Frankenstein came up kind of first on my list.

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I was thinking, oh, this is a great one to plug

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in there. But then I saw the trailer for The

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Bride. when I went to Withering Heights at the

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movie theater, and oh, I was so excited for this

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movie to come out. Now that I've seen a little,

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you know, I've seen both, what an incredibly

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dynamic, different... We could layer this for

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hours if we wanted to, but the father -son relationship

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focusing a lot on Victor. Victor's relationship

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with his father, first of all, in Frankenstein.

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Dive into that and his origin story a lot more.

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And then the sort of father and the creation

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of the monster father -son aspect of that. How

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much of that dynamic was... or I guess passed

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on. Like his relationship with his father was

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really complex and traumatic. And then how much

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of that did he pass on to the creature as he

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sort of birthed this new being into life? So

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I guess focusing on Frankenstein, what did you

00:12:01.539 --> 00:12:03.440
think about that? What do you think about that

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father -son dynamic? Yeah, you're kind of touching

00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.259
on it right here. Like you mentioned like The

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parallels. It's almost like these two films are

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totally opposite, but they are. But parallel.

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They're running parallel to each other. And Del

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Toro made a film about a creature asking, why

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was I brought into this world? And then Gyllenhaal

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made the film about a creature asking, why was

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I brought into this world for you? And there's

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a big difference there. There's a big difference

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there, I see. And yeah, I know you asked about

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the relationship with the father and the son.

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But you got to talk about del Toro overall. Like,

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where do you even start with this guy? He's one

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of those directors that you don't just watch

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his movies. You inhabit them. Like, we are a

00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:51.440
part of Frankenstein. I felt like from the opening

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scene that I was sucked in. I was in this. I'm

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immersed in his world. He's done this. Pan's

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Labyrinth. The Shape of Water with Doug Jones,

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which, by the way, we did a whole episode on

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that. with an interview with Doug Jones. It got

00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:07.539
a couple hundred thousand views. Now go check

00:13:07.539 --> 00:13:10.860
that out. Amazing. Our best video yet is the

00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:13.259
clip of just interviewing Doug Jones. It was

00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:17.240
amazing. Yeah, but he did. Crimson Peak, we can

00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.620
go on. But this man genuinely believes monsters

00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:24.100
need love. And that's a father -son dynamic right

00:13:24.100 --> 00:13:26.320
there already. Yeah. It's not a bit. It's his

00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.559
actual theology. You know, so do you think there's

00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:32.659
any other director out there that could pull

00:13:32.659 --> 00:13:35.639
this off? With the same sincerity that Guillermo

00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.360
del Toro did, because I don't think there is

00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.980
one. Yeah. Oh, I think we were all waiting centuries

00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:44.639
before Guillermo del Toro came on the in our

00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.059
mind or into the world. We were all waiting for

00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:50.399
his version of Frankenstein. I think I think

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.320
it was like this had to happen. This was like

00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:57.490
destiny or fate or like. You know, it wouldn't

00:13:57.490 --> 00:13:59.970
have been complete without it. So that, first

00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:03.789
of all, and the visuals of this movie, the parallels

00:14:03.789 --> 00:14:06.549
that people have done where they show Renaissance

00:14:06.549 --> 00:14:10.570
paintings, Renaissance paintings with scenes

00:14:10.570 --> 00:14:13.429
of this movie, it really is like a living painting.

00:14:13.570 --> 00:14:17.149
It's so incredibly immersive. I love that. And

00:14:17.149 --> 00:14:21.129
I just have to point out, Christoph Waltz, is

00:14:21.129 --> 00:14:24.490
how he goes, and all of the movies that he's

00:14:24.490 --> 00:14:27.629
been in. In those, he's just one of my favorites.

00:14:27.669 --> 00:14:29.590
He's just good in everything that he does, but

00:14:29.590 --> 00:14:33.610
his portrayal, Heinrich, Harlan, who he plays

00:14:33.610 --> 00:14:36.750
in this movie, when he came on the screen, I

00:14:36.750 --> 00:14:39.049
was like, oh, this is going to be a good movie.

00:14:39.990 --> 00:14:44.450
This movie is heavy. Yeah. It's heavy in a good

00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:47.309
way, though. The best kind of way, am I right?

00:14:48.370 --> 00:14:53.250
Guillermo, he approaches Frankenstein and...

00:14:53.629 --> 00:14:56.110
you know from the rest of the movies and stuff

00:14:56.110 --> 00:14:57.710
that he makes that he's going to go from the

00:14:57.710 --> 00:15:00.389
creature's perspective he's not here to make

00:15:00.389 --> 00:15:02.950
us scared of this this monster he's here to make

00:15:02.950 --> 00:15:07.309
us love him and then break our damn hearts but

00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:11.190
he adds to all of this with like we said the

00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:14.529
texture the shadows the gothic romanticism because

00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:16.929
that's what this whole thing is sucks you in

00:15:16.929 --> 00:15:19.669
and it makes you feel it's not easy to do most

00:15:19.669 --> 00:15:23.080
retellings make the creature scary Because it's

00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.000
safer. It's easy. That's easy, bro. I could make

00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.340
a Frankenstein movie right now and make Frankenstein

00:15:28.340 --> 00:15:30.940
scary and I'm in line with everybody else. But

00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:33.840
not him. Not Del Toro. Got a lot of respect for

00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.100
that. Let's not shade Maggie Gyllenhaal because

00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:42.100
total opposite side and I thought hers was a

00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:45.750
masterpiece too. You know, first of all, she

00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:48.350
did The Lost Daughter. That was her directorial

00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:51.289
debut. And if you slept on that film, go find

00:15:51.289 --> 00:15:54.350
it this weekend. Me and Coco will wait, all right?

00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:56.370
But she came out of the gate as a director with

00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.409
no interest in being comfortable. None. None

00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:02.509
in making you comfortable. She don't want to

00:16:02.509 --> 00:16:04.549
make you comfortable at all. From the beginning

00:16:04.549 --> 00:16:08.250
of The Bride, I kind of sat up. I'm not going

00:16:08.250 --> 00:16:09.990
to lie. I put the movie on a couple nights ago.

00:16:10.809 --> 00:16:13.269
And five minutes in, I'm like, I got it. I'm

00:16:13.269 --> 00:16:16.049
not ready for this. I can't do this. I did. I

00:16:16.049 --> 00:16:19.129
turned it off. I want to give this my full attention.

00:16:19.370 --> 00:16:24.269
I did. I did. And she comes out in The Bride

00:16:24.269 --> 00:16:27.289
centering on The Bride of Frankenstein. You know,

00:16:27.289 --> 00:16:30.230
a character that's historically been the most

00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.789
underwritten, kind of dismissed, literally silent

00:16:33.789 --> 00:16:37.350
character in the whole mythology. You know, but

00:16:37.350 --> 00:16:39.730
she exists for maybe three minutes of screen

00:16:39.730 --> 00:16:43.299
in the 1935 original. which I will make another

00:16:43.299 --> 00:16:46.159
hot take, Boris Karloff's best Frankenstein ever

00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.600
right there in 1935 version. But, you know, for

00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.860
three minutes, Coco, three minutes for a character

00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:56.639
named in a title? Yeah. What I love, the subtle

00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.159
nods to those earlier references, like the hairdo

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:04.920
and the little curls, I mean, you could see like

00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.220
where she took that and wanted that thread to,

00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:12.500
you know, take a nod to or, you know. Give it

00:17:12.500 --> 00:17:16.880
some creative symbolism in there of the previous

00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.400
references to The Bride. But I got excited about

00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:23.839
this movie, The Bride, from the trailer, like

00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:25.740
I said. But then I listened to an interview.

00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.480
with Maggie on a podcast, I think maybe Smart

00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:31.660
List was the one I was listening to, to hear

00:17:31.660 --> 00:17:34.660
her describe her thought process in coming to

00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:39.759
this movie of wanting to explore the dynamic

00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.880
experience of being created, but also for what

00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:50.000
purpose and I didn't ask for this and how she...

00:17:51.030 --> 00:17:57.049
plopped that into this whole 1930s mobster world

00:17:57.049 --> 00:18:02.210
and i mean just it's absolute genius to me but

00:18:02.210 --> 00:18:04.589
isn't it interesting you know we get to look

00:18:04.589 --> 00:18:07.069
at frankenstein in one time period and we get

00:18:07.069 --> 00:18:09.230
to look at the bride and it's a completely different

00:18:09.230 --> 00:18:12.529
time period and how those different environmental

00:18:12.529 --> 00:18:15.390
aspects just come into play with the characters

00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:20.859
i love yeah i love it maggie looked at the bride

00:18:20.859 --> 00:18:25.099
and thought about what I mentioned. You know,

00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.920
she's never done anything to be a star character.

00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.720
But Maggie took that and said, no, no, no, no,

00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:36.240
no, no. What is her story? Yeah. What does she

00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.000
want? Who is she when nobody's defining her?

00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.500
And I think that's a genuine, radical act in

00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:48.130
a franchise built around the male. It's built

00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:50.990
around Frankenstein. Yes. I would have to say

00:18:50.990 --> 00:18:53.150
that's one of my favorite things about this movie.

00:18:53.430 --> 00:18:56.829
I mean, it's very female power. Very much like,

00:18:56.930 --> 00:19:01.549
don't mess with this lady. She is out for blood.

00:19:01.670 --> 00:19:05.309
And I kind of love it. So the deaths, the murders,

00:19:05.430 --> 00:19:07.250
there's all kinds of murders happening throughout

00:19:07.250 --> 00:19:10.950
this movie. But they're almost satisfying. I

00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:12.970
have to seem like a psychopath because I wouldn't

00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:16.000
go out and murder anybody for any reason. It's

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.519
kind of that vigilante. It kind of reminds me

00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:23.180
of Birds of Prey or Margot Robbie in Harley Quinn.

00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:26.579
It's almost like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not

00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:28.720
good to kill. It's not good to kill. We don't

00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.720
like it. But this is pretty cool. Yeah. I kind

00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.440
of love this vengeance that's happening right

00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.480
now. And that Frankenstein is a character that

00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:44.940
supports her and loves his bride. kind of almost

00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:49.279
in an elevated way like uh not made for me this

00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.579
creature is somebody all her own and i am just

00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:55.720
happy to be a part of it and i'm just proud of

00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.279
who she's becoming and i'm just excited to be

00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:00.779
here and you watch that play out in the movie

00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:02.579
i said there's something really sexy about those

00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:05.240
moments and i think those like romantic romantic

00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.880
novels i mean people who who get into that kind

00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:09.480
of thing they know what i'm talking about where

00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.680
the the shadow daddy character is is watching

00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:16.670
the female character come into her own. And instead

00:20:16.670 --> 00:20:19.809
of him being like, uh -oh, I can't control this.

00:20:20.049 --> 00:20:23.690
I'm scared. I got to put a kibosh on it. He's

00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:27.670
like, wink, like super proud of his girl. And

00:20:27.670 --> 00:20:29.630
you see that happen a couple of times in this

00:20:29.630 --> 00:20:33.589
movie. It's the best. It's so satisfying. Yeah,

00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:38.470
and that's Christian Bale playing Frank, Frankenstein.

00:20:38.750 --> 00:20:44.650
And playing it incredibly, might I add. But I

00:20:44.650 --> 00:20:49.589
love that you mentioned it. And the bride gets

00:20:49.589 --> 00:20:53.690
created and is expected immediately to fulfill

00:20:53.690 --> 00:20:56.210
a role that she never agreed to, right? Right.

00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:59.250
That's not science fiction. That's a Tuesday

00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:02.630
for a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Gyllenhaal

00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:06.509
is making a horror film where the horror is expectation,

00:21:06.990 --> 00:21:10.130
ownership, the violence of being made for someone

00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:13.490
else's purpose. That's a sharp knife she's working

00:21:13.490 --> 00:21:16.950
with right there. And this character just comes

00:21:16.950 --> 00:21:19.210
in and blows everything up. I mean, everybody

00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:21.130
that everybody else is trying to create, including

00:21:21.130 --> 00:21:25.009
the detectives who are hunting them down, she's

00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:28.269
just there causing absolute chaos. It reminds

00:21:28.269 --> 00:21:32.490
me of, like, the goddess Kali or the goddess

00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:36.220
of... of birth and creation is also the goddess

00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:39.819
of destruction and chaos and they're not different

00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:42.359
or separate they're the same and that's kind

00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:44.380
of what you get in this movie because she's out

00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:47.339
of control and by the way to point that out we

00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:49.619
have to talk about the possession of Mary Shelley

00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:52.460
the fact that Mary Shelley is a character in

00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:55.559
this movie yes Another fantastic element. I cannot

00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.960
wrap my head around. I was thrilled to see how

00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:01.359
that played a part in everything where she was

00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:05.180
like, where's your bite, girl? I love that back

00:22:05.180 --> 00:22:08.380
and forth and push and pull. Oh, I thought that

00:22:08.380 --> 00:22:10.440
I meant to mention that when we were talking

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.259
about Mary Shelley there a minute ago. But thank

00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.140
you for bringing that up, because I thought that

00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:19.099
was an I thought it was a radical idea. To put

00:22:19.099 --> 00:22:21.119
it to a movie like that. I thought it was different.

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.619
I don't think I've seen this. Like, you've seen

00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:25.660
movies with narrators and stuff like that, but

00:22:25.660 --> 00:22:27.579
I don't think you've seen it like it was almost

00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:31.240
like a channeling. This is what I look at channeling

00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.480
and think of. It was a possession, and it was

00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.339
like breaking the fourth wall, right? Because

00:22:36.339 --> 00:22:40.400
there's this confusing moment. I mean, and I

00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.279
don't even know if it really matters or if you

00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.009
have to make sense of it, but... I remember,

00:22:45.049 --> 00:22:46.869
you know, in the beginning, kind of as you're

00:22:46.869 --> 00:22:49.730
seeing this play out, I was like, how does this

00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:53.589
work? Because Mary Shelley is real. Like, she's

00:22:53.589 --> 00:22:56.369
the writer. So are these her characters or are

00:22:56.369 --> 00:23:00.490
these real people? Where is the wall? And it

00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:02.809
doesn't exist. Like, the fourth wall is gone.

00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:05.789
And now it's all part of the same story. Oh,

00:23:05.829 --> 00:23:09.390
I love that. Yeah. I love it so much. Let's talk

00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:11.890
about some of the themes that are in both movies,

00:23:11.930 --> 00:23:15.349
really. It's abandonment. That's the origin for

00:23:15.349 --> 00:23:17.210
all of this, really. Both creatures are abandoned

00:23:17.210 --> 00:23:21.289
the moment they become inconvenient. You know,

00:23:21.369 --> 00:23:25.670
watch how the director, both of them, they linger

00:23:25.670 --> 00:23:29.549
on those moments. Or they don't. It's fun to

00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:33.109
see. But beauty is a currency and a trap. You

00:23:33.109 --> 00:23:34.950
know, the bride's supposed to be beautiful by

00:23:34.950 --> 00:23:38.690
design for the creature's benefit. Maggie, she

00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:42.880
digs into that hard. Yes. I love that. I love

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:46.119
all those aspects. Who gets to define the monster?

00:23:46.579 --> 00:23:49.059
That's the whole ballgame in Del Toro's version.

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.799
Expect that question to sit in every single frame

00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:55.720
when you watch it. If you haven't seen this yet,

00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:57.740
first of all, what are you doing? But go watch

00:23:57.740 --> 00:23:59.980
it. And if you have seen it, go watch these again

00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:05.019
because they're worth it. You said layers upon

00:24:05.019 --> 00:24:09.200
layers upon layers. It's there. like i said it's

00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.380
the mirror it's the mirror that we are looking

00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:15.960
at and it's still relevant with some literature

00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.599
that was written 200 years ago and not in a good

00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:24.039
way not in a good way though you know but yeah

00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.460
for sure it reminds me of um when i saw i saw

00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:30.480
a production of the hunchback of notre dame which

00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.980
is a lot of the the songs and the storyline of

00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:37.099
the Disney version of the movie. But the part

00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:39.420
where it goes, who is the monster and who is

00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:41.940
the man? Because the point is supposed to be,

00:24:42.059 --> 00:24:45.960
you think Quasimodo is a monster. No, it's Frollo,

00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:49.420
obviously. You know, that's what comes up in

00:24:49.420 --> 00:24:51.920
these themes, right? Is the same idea. Well,

00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:53.900
you know, you're supposed to think that this

00:24:53.900 --> 00:24:58.700
creation that was dead and reanimated and is

00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:03.950
clearly powerful. Questionably intelligent and

00:25:03.950 --> 00:25:10.329
brutal. Brutal at times. But who is the monster?

00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:14.210
The one that created him or the one that is supposedly

00:25:14.210 --> 00:25:17.630
the monster? Which is why I think that the Frankenstein

00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:19.990
gets mixed up, right? I mean, I think we've all

00:25:19.990 --> 00:25:21.809
figured it out by now, but for a long time it

00:25:21.809 --> 00:25:24.890
was like, oh, Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein

00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:28.609
is... No, Frankenstein was the doctor who created

00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.829
him, and we're clear about that now, but I think

00:25:31.829 --> 00:25:34.269
there was a long time where that was confused

00:25:34.269 --> 00:25:38.569
because, yeah, and then you get back into the

00:25:38.569 --> 00:25:40.970
whole father -son dynamic, taking his father's

00:25:40.970 --> 00:25:45.970
name, right, as his own, and where that plays

00:25:45.970 --> 00:25:50.049
into the symbolism of it all. The patriarchy,

00:25:50.069 --> 00:25:53.750
once again. The patriarchy kicking in once again.

00:25:53.970 --> 00:25:55.990
But here, let's talk about that a little further,

00:25:56.190 --> 00:25:57.690
and let me throw the question out there to the

00:25:57.690 --> 00:26:00.349
freaks. Because I mentioned it earlier, you got

00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:04.990
two different stories, really. You got the, you

00:26:04.990 --> 00:26:08.170
know, I'm created, and then I was created for

00:26:08.170 --> 00:26:13.369
somebody. Like, there's two different sides to

00:26:13.369 --> 00:26:17.089
this. You got one creature asking why he exists.

00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:20.299
And the other asking why she's made for somebody

00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:26.200
else. Yeah. Where? The freaks at the where are

00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:29.000
you in this part of your life? Like what side

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:32.359
of those are you going to run to? Where are you?

00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.720
Where are you, Coco? This is. The theme of that,

00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:38.160
like, what was I created, what was I made for,

00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:40.859
it's basically the Barbie movie. Again, if you

00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:43.420
want to connect it to another storyline, completely

00:26:43.420 --> 00:26:45.799
different movie. But the idea that Barbie is

00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:47.579
struggling with her identity at the end of that

00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:52.119
movie, and supposedly she was created for, and

00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:54.000
she's struggling with it because she's like,

00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.980
but what about me? What do I want? Who am I really?

00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:03.299
Ties into some folklore that I always tell the

00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:06.180
story of Bledioweth. It was a woman who was made

00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:09.740
of flowers for her husband because he was cursed

00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:13.400
to not be able to be able to be married to a

00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:16.240
woman of the earth. So she was magically created

00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.940
of flowers just for him so that he would have

00:27:18.940 --> 00:27:21.519
a wife. And then her story is complex because

00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:23.640
she decides she doesn't want to be married to

00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.119
him. She fell in love with somebody else. And

00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.099
a lot of times she becomes the villain of the

00:27:28.099 --> 00:27:31.680
story. relating this to the bride, so stick with

00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:34.700
me here for a second, but she supposedly is the

00:27:34.700 --> 00:27:36.819
villain of the story because she tries to kill

00:27:36.819 --> 00:27:39.359
her husband so she can be with her lover, when

00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:42.759
in reality she's just owning who she is and trying

00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:47.460
to figure out if I wasn't made for this purpose,

00:27:47.539 --> 00:27:49.640
or if I was made for this purpose, but I don't

00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.779
want to be, do I get to choose? Do I get to be,

00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:57.079
do I get to follow my own path? My own destiny?

00:27:57.740 --> 00:28:01.059
Yeah, love it. That's a great story. Where's

00:28:01.059 --> 00:28:04.480
that from? That is in one of the, I think it's

00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:06.700
the third branch of the Mabinogi in the Welsh

00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:09.759
mythology. So it's over a thousand years old

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:14.079
story, Bledioweth. You guys. Probably an incredible

00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.480
source. Over a thousand years old, that's probably

00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.460
credible there. What's your final thoughts here

00:28:21.460 --> 00:28:26.130
on the bride and Frankenstein? Well. My final

00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:27.710
thoughts, because we've talked a lot about the

00:28:27.710 --> 00:28:31.410
in -depth emotional symbolism and connection

00:28:31.410 --> 00:28:33.970
of these movies, but I cannot go away without

00:28:33.970 --> 00:28:37.549
mentioning the performances of Jessie Buckley.

00:28:37.609 --> 00:28:40.109
I mean, we talked about her in Hamnet. To see

00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:44.190
her in this role of the bride, holy cow. I mean,

00:28:44.549 --> 00:28:48.150
so many performances are good, but this is next

00:28:48.150 --> 00:28:52.579
level. You guys, mark my words, Jessie Buckley,

00:28:52.660 --> 00:28:55.359
we've got to keep an eye on this woman. She is

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.819
going places like nothing. She might be the next

00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:02.099
Meryl Streep. Like, we're going to be just falling

00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:04.319
head over heels over her performances in the

00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:08.839
future because this role absolutely pushed her

00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:11.700
to the limits of everything that's possible.

00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:14.240
I could not believe it. I really couldn't. The

00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.099
dance sequence, when they get into the dance,

00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:20.759
I mean. Incredible. I just loved every second

00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.700
of it. And then when Jake Gyllenhaal, I don't

00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:26.440
know if I realized he was in this movie, but

00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.960
when I saw him on the screen as they're watching

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:33.900
him perform as a movie star, I said to my husband,

00:29:34.099 --> 00:29:36.579
oh, look, she put a brother in the movie. How

00:29:36.579 --> 00:29:40.200
nice. Yes. For him. Maybe he just wasn't doing

00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.799
anything right now. He needed a paycheck. That's

00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:45.960
what it was. He needed some money. He needed

00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.750
some money. Yeah, I don't believe that. He's

00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.049
doing fine. Jesse Buckley, you're right about

00:29:52.049 --> 00:29:54.609
that. She's going to be in a couple of upcoming

00:29:54.609 --> 00:30:00.950
movies. Three Incestuous Sisters. Audrey Niffenegger's

00:30:00.950 --> 00:30:05.170
novel. Yeah, yeah. Follows three sisters living

00:30:05.170 --> 00:30:08.730
in isolation. Dakota Johnson, Jesse Buckley,

00:30:08.789 --> 00:30:12.509
Josh O 'Connor. Mick Jagger just got cast in

00:30:12.509 --> 00:30:15.990
this. He's one of these roles. So, yeah. So we

00:30:15.990 --> 00:30:19.789
got to check that out. You're right, though.

00:30:19.849 --> 00:30:23.150
I think that she is she's incredible. She was

00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:26.809
incredible this movie. And yeah, but you didn't

00:30:26.809 --> 00:30:29.309
say anything that I wouldn't say. You didn't

00:30:29.309 --> 00:30:31.069
say anything that I was not going to say for

00:30:31.069 --> 00:30:34.109
my final thoughts. But I will say this because

00:30:34.109 --> 00:30:37.750
we're not saying this loudly enough right now.

00:30:37.769 --> 00:30:41.609
And that's we are in a monster renaissance right

00:30:41.609 --> 00:30:44.339
now. I don't mean that in a spooky Halloween,

00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:49.140
whatever kind of way. I mean it in a culturally,

00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:55.240
like we're obsessed right now with reexamining

00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:59.079
and taking a look at who the monsters are or

00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.180
were in all the stories we've ever been told.

00:31:03.220 --> 00:31:05.799
Maleficent, Wicked, Joker, the villain origin

00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:09.339
story as a genre is taking over now. I mean,

00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.619
we love the villains, right? But they've got...

00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:16.819
They've got layers. And that's what Del Toro

00:31:16.819 --> 00:31:20.220
and Gyllenhaal, it feels like they're doing different.

00:31:20.380 --> 00:31:22.420
You know, they're more serious and less franchise

00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:26.559
minded. They don't care about making four Frankenstein

00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:31.440
movies or a trilogy of The Bride. They don't

00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.500
care about that. They're not doing that. No,

00:31:33.619 --> 00:31:35.900
this is going to stand the test of time all on

00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:40.240
its own. I mean, it's going to. have people referencing

00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.720
it, questioning it, diving into all the layers

00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:48.000
of it, creating new ideas and angles behind it.

00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:50.099
I mean, we didn't even mention this, but we could

00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:53.319
go into more of the blemish, like the idea that

00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.420
the bride, she had right out the gate this black

00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:59.160
mark on her face that becomes something that

00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:01.559
all of the girls start emulating because she

00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:05.589
started a revolution. To me, that's significant

00:32:05.589 --> 00:32:08.950
because perfectionism and beauty are all so important

00:32:08.950 --> 00:32:12.369
to our culture. To watch that play out in the

00:32:12.369 --> 00:32:14.750
movie as well, it's a horror movie that we could

00:32:14.750 --> 00:32:17.789
dive into for another hour. Oh, yeah. And we're

00:32:17.789 --> 00:32:20.329
not going to do it here. We may do it another

00:32:20.329 --> 00:32:23.990
day. But, yeah, the creature in Frankenstein

00:32:23.990 --> 00:32:26.769
is literally a person built by someone else's

00:32:26.769 --> 00:32:29.869
ambition and then left to survive in a world

00:32:29.869 --> 00:32:32.569
that finds him repulsive. Tell me that don't

00:32:32.569 --> 00:32:35.529
hit different right now in 2026. Let that sit

00:32:35.529 --> 00:32:38.390
in for a minute, and let's think about that.

00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:42.549
But let's go ahead and wrap this bad boy up because

00:32:42.549 --> 00:32:45.349
you're right. If I keep going, I'll pull up another

00:32:45.349 --> 00:32:48.250
idea, and we'll go off on it. But we can save

00:32:48.250 --> 00:32:52.430
that for another day. And once again, Boris Karloff,

00:32:52.549 --> 00:32:55.829
best one ever. Yeah. Come at me. I don't think

00:32:55.829 --> 00:32:58.970
you will. What do you got? Any hot takes over

00:32:58.970 --> 00:33:01.250
there, Coco? You got anything? I think that all

00:33:01.250 --> 00:33:05.210
the Frankensteins in both movies did a fantastic

00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:11.430
job as well. And, I mean, you mentioned Christian

00:33:11.430 --> 00:33:14.049
Bale being Frankenstein in The Bride, but what

00:33:14.049 --> 00:33:17.269
I love about his role is he really kept directing

00:33:17.269 --> 00:33:20.910
the attention or the focus back on her, and it

00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:26.289
made his performance better for it, not shadowed

00:33:26.289 --> 00:33:29.319
at all. Right. One more hot take from me and

00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:33.000
then we'll get out of here. But I think that

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:40.180
I think The Bride, it might be. It's tough. The

00:33:40.180 --> 00:33:41.960
most important. I'm not even going to say one

00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.720
of. I think it is the most important film in

00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.759
the franchise's history. I would agree. That's

00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:49.660
a hot take. I mean, how can you get bigger than

00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:52.960
Frankenstein himself? But I think this is it

00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:56.279
because I think it's. It's all there. And one

00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:58.039
more thing for you. If you haven't read Mary

00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:01.440
Shelley's novel, this is your sign. Go read the

00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.480
book. It's short. It's quick. And then you'll

00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.200
have a different outlook on both of these films.

00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.440
But that's going to do it for this episode of

00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:10.880
Parallel Frequencies. I'm Just Plain. She is

00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:12.920
Coco. You are the freaks. And we will see you

00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:13.659
on the other side.