Boob Identity: How Breasts Shape Women's Confidence

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.620
Okay, hello. Today on Ladyface podcast, we're

00:00:04.620 --> 00:00:07.519
going to be speaking today with Whitney Zellick

00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:11.099
and Jen McMullen. And we met you through one

00:00:11.099 --> 00:00:14.560
of our injectors here, right? Yes, Megan. Yep.

00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:17.379
So Megan was telling us kind of about your adventure

00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:19.820
and how you were doing. And it kind of spoke

00:00:19.820 --> 00:00:23.280
to me because Whitney and I have talked about

00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:27.460
what we call is our boob identity. Boob denity.

00:00:27.739 --> 00:00:31.399
Boob denity, okay. Yeah. kind of the way we have

00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:34.439
taken up space over our life with that part of

00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:37.880
our anatomy. So that's kind of something that

00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.280
I thought would be interesting to explore with

00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:44.079
other women with different backgrounds and kind

00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:48.119
of how it was affecting them. So we just kind

00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:50.820
of want to talk about today like how breasts

00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:55.280
are a part of our identity, how they represent

00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:59.320
confidence or feminism to some people, how kind

00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:02.140
of like through your life, how this changes,

00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:05.299
maybe like as we were younger and how we feel

00:01:05.299 --> 00:01:07.659
about it now. I think the other thing that I've

00:01:07.659 --> 00:01:11.640
noticed is how I am visualizing my daughter go

00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.620
through this as like a teenage woman, right?

00:01:14.780 --> 00:01:18.219
So for me, there's been a lot of transition over

00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:21.560
my time as a person. So that's kind of what we

00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:26.420
want to talk about. So I would say I'm a geriatric

00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:29.459
millennial, because I'm 40. And you're a - are

00:01:29.459 --> 00:01:32.280
you a baby millennial, Whitney? Or do you get

00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:39.579
to be a Gen Xers, Z, Niner? No, 89, so. So you're

00:01:39.579 --> 00:01:43.079
- you're not a millennial, right? Well, but I

00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:47.900
am. Okay. But I don't - I don't know. Yeah, you

00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:50.939
are a millennial. You're an 89er. Okay. And what

00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:54.650
about you? So I'm 82. I'll be 44 this year. So

00:01:54.650 --> 00:01:57.629
you're like a wedgie in between. Yeah. What do

00:01:57.629 --> 00:02:01.010
you identify as? Nothing. Just a 44 -year -old

00:02:01.010 --> 00:02:03.250
woman. Just a woman. Just kind of midlife. I

00:02:03.250 --> 00:02:08.210
feel like the whole millennial Gen Z, Gen X came

00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:10.969
after my time. All of a sudden, I was labeled.

00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.530
Yeah, that's true. And when I was younger, teenage,

00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:17.689
even in my 20s, there never was this label, even

00:02:17.689 --> 00:02:20.729
in... to my 30s, I don't feel like I had a label

00:02:20.729 --> 00:02:23.030
until I got probably mid -30s and it was like,

00:02:23.030 --> 00:02:27.430
oh, you're a... And I'm like, am I? But 82. Let's

00:02:27.430 --> 00:02:30.669
ask Whitney the marketer, because I think it

00:02:30.669 --> 00:02:33.629
feels like it's something that they say for cohorts,

00:02:33.669 --> 00:02:36.110
but it also feels like for people to sell to

00:02:36.110 --> 00:02:38.270
me. They're like, as a millennial, this is what

00:02:38.270 --> 00:02:40.349
you like, or this is who you are. And I was like,

00:02:40.930 --> 00:02:46.349
I also am like, meh, meh. I mean, I feel like,

00:02:46.349 --> 00:02:49.610
what is it? I think the Gen Z -ers really made

00:02:49.610 --> 00:02:53.849
that term pop of labeling. I remember hearing

00:02:53.849 --> 00:02:58.250
the word baby boomer as a kid, but it's just

00:02:58.250 --> 00:03:02.530
recently that we're all, you know, classifying

00:03:02.530 --> 00:03:06.129
each other. I feel like boomers has been around

00:03:06.129 --> 00:03:10.229
forever. Yeah, I do. And then I think my mom

00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:13.599
is a boomer and her... mom or the older people

00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.240
would always be like, there's nothing like our

00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:18.900
generation, like our work affects the best. We

00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:21.300
have the hardest life, you know, that type of

00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:23.379
thing. I feel like previously it was more decades.

00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:39.120
It's like, oh, I was born in the 19th. Aren't

00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.530
they the Gen X? Are they Gen X? Yeah, they're

00:03:42.530 --> 00:03:46.189
Gen N. Okay. See, I just don't follow. She's

00:03:46.189 --> 00:03:48.810
like, it's not my classification system. Yeah.

00:03:48.990 --> 00:03:52.310
But I feel like I relate to so many different

00:03:52.310 --> 00:03:54.889
- Groups of people? Yes. That's good. That's

00:03:54.889 --> 00:03:57.550
really good. Yeah. It depends on your mentality,

00:03:57.569 --> 00:04:00.189
I guess. I said I didn't really fit into any

00:04:00.189 --> 00:04:02.620
group and then I read - all the stuff about people

00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:04.560
my age and I was like, oh yeah, that's true.

00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:07.919
I was like, it makes sense. It's a social cohort

00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.719
example. It makes a lot of sense to me. So I

00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.280
guess for you two ladies, I kind of want to know

00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.220
who, when did you like first become aware of

00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:22.459
your breasts, your boobs, whatever you call them?

00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:26.480
Well, I wasn't. early bloomer. So I hit puberty

00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.459
between fifth and sixth grade in high school.

00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:31.600
Oh, that's a hard one. And that was pretty brutal.

00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:34.660
I was taller than ever. All my friends, I had

00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:37.620
curves. Yeah. And not only did I have breasts,

00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:40.639
but I had an ass. Like I've always had a bubble

00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.420
butt. Yeah. Genetically engineered. You were

00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:46.399
like, woohoo! My papa. Right? Thanks, Fajah.

00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:49.319
So I'm this sixth grader with just massive curves

00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:52.240
and height and a period. And I couldn't relate

00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:56.779
to any of my friends. And I was very aware. Oh,

00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:59.259
yes. Yeah, very aware. So fifth or sixth grade

00:04:59.259 --> 00:05:02.220
is like 12, right? Yep. 11 and 12. 11 and 12.

00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:06.500
Okay. What about you, Whitney? Well, I started

00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:10.259
growing some boobs before I started my period

00:05:10.259 --> 00:05:16.949
at 11. And by the time I was 12, I... believe

00:05:16.949 --> 00:05:21.810
I had these. And growing up in Utah, Salt Lake

00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:26.649
City, it was really, really hard to be so developed

00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:31.550
at such a young age and very shameful to be,

00:05:31.550 --> 00:05:36.259
you know, half of half of my grade. grades boys

00:05:36.259 --> 00:05:39.100
loved me because I had big boobs. The other half

00:05:39.100 --> 00:05:41.740
thought I was a slut because of these big boobs.

00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:45.079
And I'd always be getting in trouble. They'd

00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.519
change me out of shirts. Do they do that anymore?

00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.939
Like, I feel like that would be wronged nowadays,

00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:54.540
but they would change me out of my shirts. They'll

00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:58.860
do. I don't know. At my daughter's school, I

00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:01.879
see some of the kids wearing a school shirt.

00:06:02.459 --> 00:06:04.600
They don't take your shirt like they did before,

00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.120
but sometimes they'll put in one of their like

00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:12.180
school shirts. But I see a lot of body parts

00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:15.019
when I take her to school. I do too. Crop tops

00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:18.259
are kind of a thing. And I have two teenage boys

00:06:18.259 --> 00:06:21.860
too. Oh, that's hot. There's a lot of skin out

00:06:21.860 --> 00:06:24.839
there. There's a lot of skin. That's okay. There's

00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:27.360
a butt. My boys have been raised, you know, bodies

00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.519
are just bodies. Everybody's got a butt. And

00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:32.759
women have boobs, and there's different shapes

00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:36.699
and sizes. To avoid the pressure. It is what

00:06:36.699 --> 00:06:42.339
it is. I would say for me, I probably grew boobs,

00:06:42.459 --> 00:06:45.879
but I mostly kind of thought they were annoying

00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.879
for sports. I spent a lot of time ace wrapping

00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.519
them so that when I swung for a softball, I could

00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:55.120
hit better. That's kind of what I feel like,

00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:57.240
because I was trying to remember, and I remember

00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:01.279
I'm tall now still. How tall are you wet? Like

00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:07.980
5 .1? 5 '2. Yeah, 5 .2 and you're like, 5 '5.

00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:11.379
Yeah, yes, 5 '5. And I'm like 5 '10 and like

00:07:11.379 --> 00:07:14.660
200 pounds and I haven't ever been smaller? Not

00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:17.139
very much. I mean, I was a little skinny before.

00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.649
Yeah, it always... I felt like people always

00:07:20.649 --> 00:07:23.269
said stuff and I just absolutely did not care.

00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:26.430
And I really was always focused on how it affected

00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:29.810
like how I could play sports or ride horses or

00:07:29.810 --> 00:07:32.290
do that kind of stuff. And then I think when

00:07:32.290 --> 00:07:35.730
people started like making comments, I lived

00:07:35.730 --> 00:07:38.689
in a matriarchy family. I also grew up in Utah.

00:07:38.930 --> 00:07:40.889
Where did you grow up? Yeah, born and raised.

00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.220
Oh, we're Utah. Nobody's imported here. We're

00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:46.899
just from here. Well, the thing about it is is

00:07:46.899 --> 00:07:50.120
like for me, I never had any like shame or guilt

00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.600
or any of that. And that's kind of part of where

00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:55.019
this conversation came up because Whitney was

00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:58.779
telling me how hard it was for her. And I just

00:07:58.779 --> 00:08:01.000
had a really different experience. I did too.

00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.740
Like, fuck off. That's how I felt. And then my

00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:06.639
rest of my day went on. And my grandma and my

00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:09.220
mom were always like, you stick your boobs out

00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:11.519
and stick your chest out and just walk and have

00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:14.399
a great day. Like, nobody ever told me to take

00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:18.339
up less space any size I was. If I was skinny

00:08:18.339 --> 00:08:21.199
or had boobs or didn't have boobs, they were

00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:24.560
like, take up as much space as you want. I think

00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.480
the only thing that was a little different is

00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.379
between my mom, right? My mom, my grandma would

00:08:30.379 --> 00:08:32.220
always be like, you should cross your legs, you

00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:33.940
know? Cross your legs, make sure you're sitting

00:08:33.940 --> 00:08:36.879
appropriately. And I think my mom's age was way

00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:39.320
less like into being like, here's how you have

00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:42.139
to sit. She was just like, take up the space.

00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.340
Yeah. Yep. I don't know about you, Whitney, but

00:08:46.340 --> 00:08:49.720
did you encounter some shame because of the LDS

00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:52.120
culture that's here in Salt Lake City? Yeah.

00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.590
And a lot of bullying. from girls being jealous

00:08:56.590 --> 00:09:03.129
to my mom would try to cover my cleavage or have

00:09:03.129 --> 00:09:06.409
me put on another shirt. And I really was mad

00:09:06.409 --> 00:09:10.929
at her for a while for it until my niece decided

00:09:10.929 --> 00:09:15.190
to have like 14 year old niece or 13 decided

00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:17.850
to have her boobs hanging out because as women

00:09:17.850 --> 00:09:22.110
like we know like boobs. you know, attract attention.

00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:26.370
And I understood why my mom tried to protect

00:09:26.370 --> 00:09:29.110
me from this. But it took me many years and seeing

00:09:29.110 --> 00:09:33.090
someone that I loved and knowing how, you know,

00:09:33.309 --> 00:09:37.210
awful this world can be. And I'm now on my mom's

00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:40.830
side. And I mean, I even remember stories of

00:09:40.830 --> 00:09:44.769
we were sitting at Belgian Waffle, my favorite

00:09:44.769 --> 00:09:47.799
waffle house there. And these drunk guys were

00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:50.779
just making comments about like, hey, your daughter,

00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:56.320
how big are your daughter's boobs? And my mom,

00:09:56.700 --> 00:09:58.559
this is the first time I think I heard my mom

00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:02.700
say the fuck word. And now I understand how hard

00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:05.360
that must have been for her. But I don't think

00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.080
she came from a place of LDS. I think she came

00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:14.240
from a place of protection. My mom was really

00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.899
young. My mom got pregnant with me at 14. She

00:10:17.899 --> 00:10:21.320
had me at 15. She's a little bit of a wild child.

00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:24.019
She was the youngest of nine and the only daughter

00:10:24.019 --> 00:10:28.320
of the third husband of my grandmother. So she

00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.700
was the princess. She was the baby. And growing

00:10:31.700 --> 00:10:34.419
up with my mom when she kind of found her footing

00:10:34.419 --> 00:10:36.720
and we moved out from my grandmother's house,

00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:39.460
I was about eight. She married my stepdad and

00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:42.889
she would just be in string bikinis. all the

00:10:42.889 --> 00:10:46.190
time. And we had a pretty predominant LDS community

00:10:46.190 --> 00:10:48.830
in our neighborhood. And I remember during Fast

00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:50.990
Sunday, do you know what Fast Sunday is? The

00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:53.250
missionaries come around, they collect the tithing

00:10:53.250 --> 00:10:56.330
for Fast Sunday. She would inevitably answer

00:10:56.330 --> 00:11:00.210
the door. lotioned up, oiled up in her string

00:11:00.210 --> 00:11:05.149
bikini for these missionaries. So my mom was

00:11:05.149 --> 00:11:08.750
more body positive. She not, not even body positive.

00:11:08.850 --> 00:11:11.370
She was naughty. She kind of set this example

00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:14.090
for me that I was this girl that almost, it's

00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:16.190
not that I was jealous of my mom. I was almost

00:11:16.190 --> 00:11:19.830
embarrassed by her. It was like, what are you

00:11:19.830 --> 00:11:22.230
doing? Like these are my friends. This is my

00:11:22.230 --> 00:11:24.950
community. And I had the, you know, I had the

00:11:24.950 --> 00:11:27.980
Mrs. Jackson. mom, you know, that everybody knew

00:11:27.980 --> 00:11:32.080
was hot. And I kind of shied away. I went a little

00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.700
bit more conservative because I hated seeing

00:11:34.700 --> 00:11:37.440
people look at my mom in such a sexual manner.

00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:40.299
It kind of disgusted me. And then throughout

00:11:40.299 --> 00:11:43.840
my mom's entire life, she always used sex to

00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.659
advance her narrative in any way. And that always

00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:49.820
has bothered me. My wife. It's very interesting.

00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:51.600
And that's for you, like, when we were talking

00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.019
before, why it's not separate. Yeah. It's all

00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:57.059
kind of tied. Interesting. That's sad hard. I

00:11:57.059 --> 00:11:59.440
mean, it's just life, right? Everybody has different

00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.700
stories. Everybody has different mothers. And

00:12:01.700 --> 00:12:04.379
I loved my mother very, very much. And I've now

00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:06.679
throughout my life started to understand her

00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:10.860
more and more. And she used the tools that she

00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:14.549
knew how to use, that she was taught. to get

00:12:14.549 --> 00:12:16.409
ahead in this life. And I think every one of

00:12:16.409 --> 00:12:19.250
us do that to a certain extent. And for me, I

00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:22.610
prefer to cover up a little bit more. But I love

00:12:22.610 --> 00:12:26.889
to be comfortable and not hot and not bound,

00:12:27.009 --> 00:12:30.629
right? I hate wearing bras. But I'll never have...

00:12:30.629 --> 00:12:32.730
I'm the opposite. I'll really never have my girls

00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:34.710
popping out. But they're small enough that I

00:12:34.710 --> 00:12:37.830
can, like, keep them in. I could not imagine

00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:40.429
if I had a large chest. I don't think I would

00:12:40.429 --> 00:12:43.639
ever... I love bras. I think they're fantastic.

00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.940
I wear them all the time. I hate them so much.

00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:49.299
And I like the ones that push my boobs to the

00:12:49.299 --> 00:12:52.940
sky. To the sky! I don't mind that at all. I

00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:56.460
don't have... I was like, oh, you wear a bra,

00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:58.919
that's it. You wear shoes, it's just part of

00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:03.690
your day. But I did, my old assistant... I mean,

00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:05.730
she made me laugh so hard because we'd have to

00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:07.710
be like, hey, like, this isn't a nipple party.

00:13:08.830 --> 00:13:10.870
There's people coming. We're doing a business

00:13:10.870 --> 00:13:13.009
meeting. Your nipples can't be out. Well, you

00:13:13.009 --> 00:13:15.830
can do nipple covers. I'm a nipple cover fan.

00:13:16.169 --> 00:13:19.250
The problem with it is it's that whole thing

00:13:19.250 --> 00:13:22.649
with my daughter. My opinion for me has been

00:13:22.649 --> 00:13:25.429
like I think that I really enjoy when people

00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:29.289
are comfortable with their bodies. I really don't

00:13:29.289 --> 00:13:32.470
mind if women use sex to advance themselves or

00:13:32.470 --> 00:13:36.190
they don't. I feel like there's a lot of tools

00:13:36.190 --> 00:13:39.330
that people are taught and some people that's

00:13:39.330 --> 00:13:41.289
their greatest skill or that's the only skill

00:13:41.289 --> 00:13:44.230
they were taught. It doesn't really offend me

00:13:44.230 --> 00:13:47.470
as a woman if she's picking it and I think it's

00:13:47.470 --> 00:13:50.919
really hard to define us being trained to do

00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.879
that, us picking to do that, or people teaching

00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.759
us how to be that, right? And it's hard in this

00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.350
industry because I think it's fun. Making people

00:14:00.350 --> 00:14:03.450
more confident is fun, but I always have my ethical

00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.370
dilemma on where I live on the continuum of what's

00:14:07.370 --> 00:14:10.750
right and what's appropriate to how I treat a

00:14:10.750 --> 00:14:13.970
woman and how we treat each other. So for me,

00:14:14.230 --> 00:14:17.129
I love that you're a person that's like, no bras

00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:20.250
forever. And for me, I'm like, ooh, I want a

00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:22.470
lace one. I want a push -up one. I want a purple

00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:25.809
one. I want the dazzle. For me. I don't know

00:14:25.809 --> 00:14:27.750
about you, Whitney, but I feel like it's the

00:14:27.750 --> 00:14:30.289
size. I obviously have a different size than

00:14:30.289 --> 00:14:33.190
the both of you. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I feel like

00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:36.269
if I had bigger breasts and they needed to be,

00:14:37.029 --> 00:14:38.950
I just think they look prettier when they're

00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:41.970
in a really nice lacy bra, right? Just like supported.

00:14:42.490 --> 00:14:45.370
We need some support. What about you, Whitney?

00:14:45.809 --> 00:14:50.250
I know your boobs went viral. Oh, yeah. These

00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:53.690
titties are famous. We should send a link to

00:14:53.690 --> 00:15:05.139
that if you want to. I don't know any difference,

00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:13.860
honestly, than having these big jugs. I do know

00:15:13.860 --> 00:15:20.480
that shopping, I have to be, I can't wear halter

00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.179
tops or what some of these other women are wearing.

00:15:25.059 --> 00:15:32.639
So, there is some restrictions. However, I fill

00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.019
out nicely when it's needed, right? So, I do

00:15:36.019 --> 00:15:39.679
appreciate that. As far as jobs, I don't think

00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.139
anyone's hiring me for marketing because of my

00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:46.440
boobs, but they are welcome to, if that helps.

00:15:47.909 --> 00:15:52.230
But when I was a server bartender, you bet your

00:15:52.230 --> 00:15:55.490
ass I took advantage of the boobs. Like in Vegas,

00:15:56.649 --> 00:16:00.970
I would wear cleavage. I would. And whether it

00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:06.990
made me more tips or not, I don't know. Yeah,

00:16:08.429 --> 00:16:12.169
100%. 100%. Like, you elected to wear cleavage

00:16:12.169 --> 00:16:14.629
because it had an effect on your tips and the

00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:16.950
people's response to you, right? It wasn't like

00:16:16.950 --> 00:16:19.429
a spontaneous feeling. You were like, today I

00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:22.049
feel like more cleavage. They weren't attending

00:16:22.049 --> 00:16:24.909
church either, so let's just see. The nicknames,

00:16:24.909 --> 00:16:28.250
I mean at the bars they would nickname me, what

00:16:28.250 --> 00:16:34.629
was it, kidney or big titty wit. There's so many

00:16:34.629 --> 00:16:39.500
over the years. But right now, I forgot they

00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:43.000
were even here until you made me put on a bra

00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:47.279
for this podcast. So I need a link to your bra,

00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.779
people, because I definitely don't enjoy wearing

00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:54.000
a bra, but I could not go outside of my apartment

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.899
right now without some sort of support. That

00:16:56.899 --> 00:17:00.820
would be like... Yeah. It would be... It would

00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:04.500
scare the kids and the dogs and everybody if

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:08.970
I... didn't support them some way, you know?

00:17:09.609 --> 00:17:12.190
Yeah, I understand that for sure. What about

00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:14.609
you? Okay, so what were the questions again?

00:17:14.930 --> 00:17:18.170
I mean, like, confidence. Does it change your

00:17:18.170 --> 00:17:20.329
confidence? What about, because we heard about

00:17:20.329 --> 00:17:23.450
your clothing choice. You kind of prefer to be

00:17:23.450 --> 00:17:27.130
covered, you said. I actually love being small.

00:17:27.309 --> 00:17:29.890
because I don't like to wear a bra. I do like

00:17:29.890 --> 00:17:32.369
to wear a crop top if I want to wear a crop top.

00:17:33.049 --> 00:17:35.670
I like a lower cut shirt because I feel like

00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:38.130
you get a little bit more of the decollete, you

00:17:38.130 --> 00:17:42.490
know? I've never thought that my boobs were a

00:17:42.490 --> 00:17:45.109
confidence builder. I mean, I went through a

00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:49.049
mastectomy, right? Right. And I heavily contemplated

00:17:49.049 --> 00:17:51.170
doing an aesthetic flat closure. Actually, that's

00:17:51.170 --> 00:17:53.289
what I was going to do. And then I don't like

00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:55.609
to wear bras, so that works out fantastic for

00:17:55.609 --> 00:17:58.890
me. have to do a nipple cover. That's fantastic.

00:17:59.250 --> 00:18:01.549
And I started just researching some sick tattoos

00:18:01.549 --> 00:18:03.930
that would go across my chest. So breasts have

00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:06.650
never been one of those things that have been

00:18:06.650 --> 00:18:09.990
cumbersome in my life. I've actually all, I think

00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:12.470
my best relationship with my breasts were when

00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:14.470
I was breastfeeding my children. Hands down.

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.299
So you kind of have them more in a functional

00:18:17.299 --> 00:18:20.319
category. Absolutely. And they were beautiful.

00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.019
I mean, they were. They were large. And I had

00:18:23.019 --> 00:18:25.740
cleavage, like natural cleavage for the first

00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:28.880
time. I'd never really experienced that, right?

00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:34.200
And they were just beautiful. They really were

00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.619
so, so beautiful. And I never experienced. Behold.

00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:39.779
Behold. Something that I've never had before.

00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:43.059
But yeah. Yeah, that was the biggest confidence

00:18:43.059 --> 00:18:44.960
boost was being able to breastfeed my children.

00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:47.259
Do you? That's pretty, actually that's pretty

00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:49.700
interesting. I know that that's a part of their

00:18:49.700 --> 00:18:52.799
life, but I think for me that was like, meh,

00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:55.900
because my kids, I breastfed. Well, I didn't

00:18:55.900 --> 00:18:58.599
even want to breastfeed because it hurt. pretty

00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.700
horribly. It wasn't like, I wasn't like, wow,

00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.380
I feel the joy of mothering. Well, again, convenience

00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:08.660
for me, I'm a lazy ass. So I don't want to sterilize

00:19:08.660 --> 00:19:10.640
a bottle. I don't want to have to and I don't

00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.319
like to waste food. So for me, it was like wasting

00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.420
for, you know, financially, clinically, you know,

00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:21.059
cleaning and it was it would just be wasteful

00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:23.819
to me. And then it was on tap. It was so convenient

00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.500
that you could just have bad boys on and drink

00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:29.609
as much as you want. I mean like that's amazing.

00:19:29.730 --> 00:19:32.349
I hear about that because that's Megan's hippie

00:19:32.349 --> 00:19:34.690
approach for me I teach. Oh I'm a total hippie.

00:19:34.769 --> 00:19:37.450
And for me I have like all the elements of a

00:19:37.450 --> 00:19:40.369
hippie but I'm also like the person that is like

00:19:40.369 --> 00:19:42.910
I'm gonna pump because that's way more convenient

00:19:42.910 --> 00:19:45.309
for me than other people can help with my kids

00:19:45.309 --> 00:19:48.210
and other people can bond with my kids too. I

00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:51.089
did pump. I pumped once a day. But I would rather

00:19:51.089 --> 00:19:54.809
poke myself in the eye than have my nipple slowly

00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:57.109
ripped off by a baby. It was brutal. It hurts

00:19:57.109 --> 00:19:59.980
too. I was like, no thank you, I will give you

00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:02.519
the benefits a different way. I didn't wanna,

00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:06.220
sometimes I eliminate the suffering of women

00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:09.430
for myself. My boobs were just never cool like

00:20:09.430 --> 00:20:11.730
your guys' boobs. And so that was like the coolest

00:20:11.730 --> 00:20:13.809
time in their lives. She was like, I was having

00:20:13.809 --> 00:20:16.710
them out. She was like, so they did build her

00:20:16.710 --> 00:20:20.630
confidence. She's like, bam. She's like, the

00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:24.190
mall? Here we go. Get it. She's like, don't tell

00:20:24.190 --> 00:20:26.369
me. I do. I was not going to cover up my baby.

00:20:26.369 --> 00:20:29.190
Yeah, that's right. So she's so full of shit

00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:32.390
if she doesn't. She said they didn't build her

00:20:32.390 --> 00:20:35.170
confidence. Oh, they did. But then they just

00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:40.630
went away. Do you feel like it affected your,

00:20:40.710 --> 00:20:43.589
okay, so you kind of just said something like

00:20:43.589 --> 00:20:46.450
pretty just stuck it in there. You had a dual

00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:51.069
mastectomy. Yes. So that is a huge difference

00:20:51.069 --> 00:20:54.849
in how we perceive like a feminine body or women,

00:20:55.250 --> 00:20:59.140
right? How do you feel like this is affecting

00:20:59.140 --> 00:21:01.680
you or your relationship? You said, you're like,

00:21:01.779 --> 00:21:03.519
no big deal. I'm going to put some tattoos on

00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:05.519
it. Are you the lady that's going to run without

00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:09.039
a shirt on? I mean, now we're in the era of you

00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.019
can do pretty much whatever in the hell you want,

00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.900
right? I always was in that era. That's how I

00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:18.420
was raised. Yeah. I was raised in that. I feel

00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:21.779
like we are so blessed to be women right now.

00:21:21.980 --> 00:21:26.180
Like, holy shit, it feels good to be alive right

00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:28.680
now. And if you've ever picked up a history book

00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.799
as a woman, being alive right now is just...

00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.579
I mean, I have to pinch myself. Especially in

00:21:34.579 --> 00:21:37.099
our country, I would have to give you that caveat.

00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:40.019
We do have... Yes. And then gratitude comes into

00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:42.759
play. That still is happening around the world.

00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:46.579
I have like a little weird balance of that gratitude.

00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.299
I feel like we're required to be grateful for

00:21:49.299 --> 00:21:51.819
basic human rights. And we have to... and have

00:21:51.819 --> 00:21:54.500
this conversation and be like, isn't it amazing

00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:56.900
that we're gonna wear pants, guys? That's so

00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:59.779
cool. It's so cool when we're not raped now as

00:21:59.779 --> 00:22:03.059
much. That's fucking great. Like, I feel like

00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.940
it's slightly fucked up to have to, like, be

00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:08.720
like, hey, isn't it great to be alive? It is

00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.579
great to be alive, but I still have a teenage

00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:15.519
daughter that has sexual predators coming after

00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.480
her, like, just when we go to the grocery store.

00:22:19.460 --> 00:22:27.789
So... For me, I feel so happy because I see the

00:22:27.789 --> 00:22:30.329
crap that my mom went through and every lady

00:22:30.329 --> 00:22:35.250
that burned her bra for me, all the suffragettes,

00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:40.009
all the laws that have changed. But having people

00:22:40.009 --> 00:22:43.750
get on political platforms or the trend towards

00:22:43.750 --> 00:22:48.549
trad wife stuff, I feel like just picking, that

00:22:48.549 --> 00:22:51.430
should be the thing. Right? Not being like, wow,

00:22:51.529 --> 00:22:54.289
we have all these options. Just like being able

00:22:54.289 --> 00:22:56.930
to pick and not have that pressure of who I say

00:22:56.930 --> 00:23:00.670
you should be or anyone. Right? A man, a woman,

00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:03.430
other women telling us we're not enough. Like

00:23:03.430 --> 00:23:06.410
for me here, like I get told all the time, I

00:23:06.410 --> 00:23:09.690
work so I'm not that great of a mom. right? And

00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:12.829
if you stay home, you're not like so smart, you're

00:23:12.829 --> 00:23:15.089
not intellectual enough. And what are you doing?

00:23:15.289 --> 00:23:17.710
Like, it seems like there's the wedgie of dumb,

00:23:17.930 --> 00:23:20.490
where each butt cheeks lends itself to being

00:23:20.490 --> 00:23:23.849
crammed in the middle of no wind, right? I just

00:23:23.849 --> 00:23:26.150
think as women, we need to stop paying attention

00:23:26.150 --> 00:23:28.509
to that bullshit, and it'll go away. I think

00:23:28.509 --> 00:23:30.910
the more we pay attention to it, the more it

00:23:30.910 --> 00:23:34.269
lingers. So for me, it's like, I'm the ultimate

00:23:34.269 --> 00:23:37.589
feminist. Yeah. Work, baby, if you want to work.

00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.559
Be a stay -at -home mom. If you want to be a

00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.420
stay -at -home mom, stop focusing so much energy

00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:46.599
on what society thinks or what your friend thinks

00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:48.500
or what your neighbor next door thinks or your

00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:51.099
grandma from an entirely different generation

00:23:51.099 --> 00:23:53.579
thinks. I think we just have to wake up every

00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:57.539
day. Life is so damn short, I assure you, and

00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.660
do your best. Nah, and then fucking die. Then

00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.200
die about it, okay. This is like, that's it,

00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:06.819
yeah. No, I love the sentiment, because I still

00:24:06.819 --> 00:24:08.880
have the feeling of I'll do whatever the fuck,

00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:13.460
but it still is a mold that people grow in. Yeah,

00:24:13.819 --> 00:24:15.440
and your daughter - And it shapes you without

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.299
knowledge, like you, I guess you like come out

00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:20.980
- I mean, like, for lack of a better metaphor,

00:24:21.819 --> 00:24:23.960
gummy bear. Like, you come out whatever color

00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.579
you are, but the shape of you is that gummy bear,

00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:31.720
right? So when we say, like, this is how we can

00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.839
live, do whatever you want, we still have a culture

00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:38.759
that shapes a lot of the way we get to be. So

00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:41.400
I can tell you, on my Instagram, in the next

00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.480
couple weeks, I'm going to post places I won't

00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.650
take my vagina. Because I go to travel in cities

00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:51.650
all the time, right? I travel all over the country

00:24:51.650 --> 00:24:55.130
and I can do whatever I want. I'm a hundred pounds

00:24:55.130 --> 00:24:59.130
more than both of you. No. I am. You're scaling

00:24:59.130 --> 00:25:01.589
here right now. But you know what I mean? And

00:25:01.589 --> 00:25:04.730
I don't really have fear, but I also know like

00:25:04.730 --> 00:25:07.390
the space I take up and the other people in my

00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:12.000
space. So I think like for me the whole... The

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.160
whole concept of this is to say to other people,

00:25:15.579 --> 00:25:18.480
like, how do we feel like our environment has

00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.759
shaped this? How do we take a hold of it and

00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.220
decide what we want to do with it? Because there's

00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:26.519
a time in your life as a woman where there's

00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:29.819
a lot of external influences and conversations

00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:33.440
about your body. I think how long people live

00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:35.980
in that land has to do with kind of what you

00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:40.099
say. Do you know what I mean? Like Whitney gets

00:25:40.099 --> 00:25:44.579
to decide how it takes up her time now too. But

00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:47.759
I don't feel like a lot of the times when you're

00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.059
younger, it doesn't feel like as much of a choice

00:25:50.059 --> 00:25:52.880
when a principal is coming in and being like,

00:25:53.059 --> 00:25:54.799
this is how we're going to regulate your body,

00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.000
put this shirt on. When your mom comes in and

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.339
covers your boobs and says, this is why, and

00:26:00.339 --> 00:26:04.140
is this why it's bad? Are your boobs bad? Are

00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:07.859
you bad? I don't think they're bad. I actually

00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.339
think, especially to Whitney's mother's reference,

00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:13.759
or even to the principal's reference, I think

00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.200
it's all about perspective. If you think that

00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:17.980
they're trying to cover your body up because

00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:20.220
it's shameful, then that's a perspective. For

00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.500
me, I think that Whitney's mom was trying to

00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.400
protect her. I think our bodies are special,

00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.720
and I think that they should be treated as such,

00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.319
if you will, right? Instead of just put out there

00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:37.099
for everybody to enjoy. or view or please themselves

00:26:37.099 --> 00:26:40.640
to, right? I think if we start as women treating

00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.720
our bodies special, right, and not a religious,

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.539
you know, element or a cultural element, but

00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:50.920
just individually, I think there's a lot of women

00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:54.789
out there that feel... shame with their bodies

00:26:54.789 --> 00:26:58.690
on so many levels and we instead of the pure

00:26:58.690 --> 00:27:01.869
magic of what our bodies are and if you choose

00:27:01.869 --> 00:27:04.430
to wear a crop top out and that makes you feel

00:27:04.430 --> 00:27:06.869
beautiful and proud of yourself then that's that

00:27:06.869 --> 00:27:09.910
but if you're wearing that crop top to appease

00:27:09.910 --> 00:27:13.289
somebody else's you know aesthetics or whatever

00:27:13.289 --> 00:27:16.769
then that's it's not for you and I see that happening

00:27:16.769 --> 00:27:19.529
I think a lot of women do it because they do

00:27:19.529 --> 00:27:22.029
like the control and or attention that they feel

00:27:22.029 --> 00:27:24.650
like they Oh, absolutely, but I feel like there's

00:27:24.650 --> 00:27:27.849
deeper issues with that too. I actually have

00:27:27.849 --> 00:27:30.789
met a lot of women that feel good in their body

00:27:30.789 --> 00:27:33.369
and they don't actually care. It's not like there's

00:27:33.369 --> 00:27:35.809
a big deficit and their father never told them

00:27:35.809 --> 00:27:38.470
they were special. There's people that are in

00:27:38.470 --> 00:27:40.869
different cultures that feel like skin isn't

00:27:40.869 --> 00:27:43.369
as big of a deal. Oh no, I wish that I could

00:27:43.369 --> 00:27:45.910
live in a culture where they're just bare -breasted

00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:49.829
walking around with a little, you know. But here's

00:27:49.829 --> 00:27:51.589
the amazing thing, if you look at those cultures.

00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:54.839
Breasts aren't anything. They're high, they're

00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:58.079
low, there's not a multi -billion dollar industry

00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:00.700
of bras to push those bad boys up. They just

00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:03.799
exist to feed the children of the village. And

00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:06.880
you don't see any man walking by copping a fill

00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.680
or any catcalling or anything like that. It is

00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.279
a completely different culture, which would be

00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:16.930
magical. I don't think when you eliminate boobs,

00:28:16.970 --> 00:28:19.650
you're eliminating the sexualization of women

00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.069
because in other cultures, they may show their

00:28:22.069 --> 00:28:24.490
breasts, but then their ear is the boner. We

00:28:24.490 --> 00:28:26.930
have the whole culture with the foot, right?

00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:31.029
Then the butt, then the vagina. I don't think

00:28:31.029 --> 00:28:34.950
when you free the boob, you remove any sexualization

00:28:34.950 --> 00:28:37.910
of the rest of someone's body. I think that that's

00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:40.990
how we reproduce. Scientifically, we're set up

00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:44.839
with pheromones and androgens that Push that.

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.319
Are gonna find something to rub up against. Yeah.

00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:51.160
I think for me, I think that I've loved how it's

00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.099
affected my career because people have treated

00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:56.359
me like I was an idiot because of my boobs. And

00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:59.660
it is the greatest camouflage of my life. I would

00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:02.859
paint it camouflage and put it on my head and

00:29:02.859 --> 00:29:05.819
go hunt in a jungle. That's how fucking effective

00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:09.599
it's been for me. I get underestimated on a daily

00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:13.700
basis because of my boobs. So I enjoy them. When

00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:16.480
I was younger, I was like, excuse me, really?

00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:19.579
You know, I was more surprised at people's reaction

00:29:19.579 --> 00:29:23.420
than my reaction to my boobs. I would say, weekly,

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:27.400
I get groped by women that I perceive are straight

00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:29.599
because they're like, are those real or they

00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:31.759
poke them or touch them? I feel like I get groped

00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:35.119
more by women than men, especially in public

00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:39.099
bathrooms. I agree with you. public bathrooms,

00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:43.140
restaurants, any venue I have been. And people

00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:45.740
put their faces in them and on them. So I feel

00:29:45.740 --> 00:29:48.579
like there's also that whole communal body of

00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:51.920
a woman. They're like, it is all of our bodies.

00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:54.599
So that's why I'm like, if you free the boobs,

00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:57.500
someone's going to come grope your ear or like

00:29:57.500 --> 00:30:00.079
the bottom of your butt. And that's that culture's

00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.279
fetish. Well, it's like being pregnant. Has anybody

00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.000
walked up to you and just rubbed your belly when

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.059
it's just out there? Yeah, it never bugs. It

00:30:07.059 --> 00:30:09.559
doesn't really bother me. It didn't me, but I

00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:11.980
saw it bothers some friends. There were some

00:30:11.980 --> 00:30:15.019
strangers that it would almost take me back,

00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:22.359
right? my Buddha belly right now. Yeah, I just

00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:24.500
don't mind touch, but I'm Italian. I don't really

00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:28.519
care. But I also have, I don't know. So I think

00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.420
it's been hilarious about my career. It's been

00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:34.180
hilarious for me. It doesn't really bother me

00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:37.140
because if they are impacted by breasts that

00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:40.769
much, you can really triangulate. how to overcome

00:30:40.769 --> 00:30:44.230
that person very easily. I guess it's like, yeah,

00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:46.349
it's probably not good to say. I was like, you

00:30:46.349 --> 00:30:48.630
know, the people that still wear a mask sometimes

00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:51.049
and you're like, oh, okay, I'm going to be very

00:30:51.049 --> 00:30:53.269
respectful of you and here's some puricin, right?

00:30:53.329 --> 00:30:55.970
Or here's some puricel to clean your hands. Just

00:30:55.970 --> 00:30:58.309
so that you, you just know where people stand.

00:30:58.309 --> 00:31:00.589
It's very easy. You say something that's very

00:31:00.589 --> 00:31:04.170
interesting. I never refer to my breasts as tits.

00:31:04.210 --> 00:31:06.789
My whole life, my grandma would have, she would

00:31:06.789 --> 00:31:09.380
have been like, no, no, animals have tits. Women

00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:12.259
have breasts or boobs. You do not let anyone

00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:15.059
call your boobs tits and you do not date that

00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:18.839
man. He is a pig and never talk to him. The generational

00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:21.660
jargon. And then, so like my whole life I've

00:31:21.660 --> 00:31:24.019
been like, excuse me, most people don't say that

00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:27.319
to me, but I was called Chester the molester.

00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:30.559
Yes. Chesticles, I've heard that one a lot of

00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.220
times. That one's a weird and dumb one, but also

00:31:34.220 --> 00:31:37.619
witty. I can like appreciate a witty one, but

00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:39.779
I thought that was interesting because that's

00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:43.119
something I hear you say very often. And I'm

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.500
always like programmed. That's my little gummy

00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:47.960
bear mold to be like, excuse me. You don't talk

00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:51.920
to me that way. You know? So that's something

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:54.380
that I thought. I thought something else that

00:31:54.380 --> 00:31:56.859
I wanted to talk about that I thought was really,

00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.740
really interesting is body image versus body

00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:04.799
ownership. What do you feel? I think this is

00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.660
a good question because you said you're the ultimate

00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:10.539
feminist and I think that there's a feminist

00:32:10.539 --> 00:32:14.339
which is kind of an action and then there's feminine

00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:17.859
and feminism and we kind of split them all up.

00:32:18.029 --> 00:32:20.910
and right now we're like you're not in your feminine

00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:25.049
energy if you say no or you make direct answers

00:32:25.049 --> 00:32:28.190
or if you have to make too many decisions you're

00:32:28.190 --> 00:32:31.029
not being in your feminine energy like the way

00:32:31.029 --> 00:32:34.569
we define feminine femininity feminist right

00:32:34.569 --> 00:32:39.670
now is pretty interesting so i wanted to ask

00:32:39.670 --> 00:32:44.390
you what do you feel like like body identity

00:32:44.390 --> 00:32:48.079
versus body ownership Like is for you. I mean

00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:52.190
body identity, I'm a female and I'm And I love

00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:55.970
that I'm able to do all of the things. I mean,

00:32:56.009 --> 00:33:00.450
for me, creating a child within my body was huge.

00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:04.269
Yeah. As far as identifying as a female, I guess.

00:33:04.390 --> 00:33:07.250
Being able to breastfeed my children was huge.

00:33:07.630 --> 00:33:09.450
But I fucking hated being a girl when I was in

00:33:09.450 --> 00:33:12.690
my youth. I mean, going through puberty, you

00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:15.710
know, having your tits hurt so badly as you walk

00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:17.250
down the stairs. Have you guys ever done that?

00:33:17.349 --> 00:33:19.990
It's like, you know you're about to start your

00:33:19.990 --> 00:33:21.819
period when you have... to hold these bad boys

00:33:21.819 --> 00:33:25.519
because they hurt so bad. The cramps that would

00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.299
have me passing out at 12 years old because they

00:33:28.299 --> 00:33:32.220
were so painful, right? The sweating and then

00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:33.839
everything that came with it. I don't know if

00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:36.119
you guys get cold sores, but every time I'd have

00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.160
my period, I would get a cold sore. Really? And

00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:41.359
I mean, and it was always Rick for picture day

00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:45.579
in school. It's like son of a bitch. Let me tell

00:33:45.579 --> 00:33:49.230
you, if I was 20 years younger, I... probably

00:33:49.230 --> 00:33:51.970
would change your gender my gender really for

00:33:51.970 --> 00:33:54.309
sure like i actually had a conversation with

00:33:54.309 --> 00:33:58.410
a friend of mine she was born a biological female

00:33:58.410 --> 00:34:02.609
and at 14 she decided that she identified as

00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:05.630
a male and kind of was going through the hormone

00:34:05.630 --> 00:34:08.889
suppressing stages and i got very candid with

00:34:08.889 --> 00:34:13.449
him um formally her zoe and then now cecil right

00:34:13.449 --> 00:34:16.920
and i just said i just want to ask you an honest

00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.539
question. When I was, when I hit puberty, it

00:34:20.539 --> 00:34:24.079
was probably the worst time of my life. It was

00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:27.960
horrendous. I was bleeding out. I was, my body

00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:32.039
was changing and I had a decently supportive

00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.199
mother to hold me on the toilet while I told

00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.460
her how much I absolutely hated being a female.

00:34:37.579 --> 00:34:39.840
And I didn't want to do this, right? I could

00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.019
not imagine. And her story is or his story is

00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:45.199
his to tell, but a dysfunctional relationship

00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:48.340
with his mother and his stepmother and his dad

00:34:48.340 --> 00:34:50.800
and to not have that support as a female when

00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.440
you're going through that life change for at

00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.780
least three or four years. I told him straight

00:34:56.780 --> 00:35:00.260
up, I would have hands down changed my gender.

00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:02.760
Really? And it was interesting because he looked

00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.420
at me and it was like I had struck this chord

00:35:05.420 --> 00:35:08.599
of how fucking hard it is. To be a woman. To

00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:12.369
be a woman biologically. Right? So hard that

00:35:12.369 --> 00:35:14.369
if you don't have that support of other females

00:35:14.369 --> 00:35:16.730
around you, that you will literally inject yourself

00:35:16.730 --> 00:35:19.090
with hormones and change that shit up. And I

00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:22.449
feel like from my perspective, puberty for me

00:35:22.449 --> 00:35:25.690
was pretty close to like, well, this is a little

00:35:25.690 --> 00:35:28.929
annoying. How can I make my boobs fit into this?

00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:31.809
Like, who am I not going to get in trouble by?

00:35:31.889 --> 00:35:33.929
Because I would be like, you know, I would be

00:35:33.929 --> 00:35:36.940
like pulling it all the way. I'm like... Hello,

00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:41.900
everyone! I've arrived, but I - and then I would

00:35:41.900 --> 00:35:44.280
wrap them up for sports, like I've, you know,

00:35:44.420 --> 00:35:48.659
like I never had a hellacious time with periods

00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:52.440
or cramps. I just really loved my body. I loved

00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.340
being a woman. I think it was really hard to

00:35:55.340 --> 00:35:57.800
have kids because nobody was like, all right,

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.079
once upon a time, you're going to have a baby

00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.940
and every fucking thing's going to change and

00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:05.900
I'm not going to tell you, but - you're welcome

00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:09.579
and you picked it and you're like okay and then

00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:13.300
like how your your body identity changed a ton

00:36:13.300 --> 00:36:17.519
because you maybe were smaller you had no stretch

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.980
marks or you were used to like your time being

00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:25.599
yours like that was really difficult for me that

00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.440
people weren't a little bit more like hey your

00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.659
whole life changes because everyone kind of says

00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:36.599
it But there's not that real feeling of the change.

00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:41.619
And I think out of all my time being a woman,

00:36:42.099 --> 00:36:45.360
my specialty is to talk to people about paramenopause

00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.769
and menopause. And I think that... I've sought

00:36:48.769 --> 00:36:52.730
this type of job because I wanted to make women

00:36:52.730 --> 00:36:55.650
feel more comfortable and I wanted to tell them

00:36:55.650 --> 00:36:58.429
there were solutions for their body outside of

00:36:58.429 --> 00:37:01.210
what general population medicine could offer

00:37:01.210 --> 00:37:04.670
because I've met people that have struggled and

00:37:04.670 --> 00:37:07.769
I can't imagine like I watch them and I'm like,

00:37:07.869 --> 00:37:12.409
look at you go. I feel so proud like of Whitney

00:37:12.409 --> 00:37:15.230
and other people when they're like Telling me

00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:17.929
their stories and I'm like that was hellacious

00:37:17.929 --> 00:37:21.050
I just had a great time and I enjoyed myself

00:37:21.050 --> 00:37:23.750
and I wasn't I would never be like I'm gonna

00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:26.769
switch my gender cuz I had a cramp I never would

00:37:26.769 --> 00:37:30.889
feel that way or Like I don't like you know and

00:37:30.889 --> 00:37:34.449
my mom was very supportive But it was like when

00:37:34.449 --> 00:37:37.969
I asked she wasn't like here's the pathway You

00:37:37.969 --> 00:37:40.869
know the speed bumps here and for me now. That's

00:37:40.869 --> 00:37:42.730
what I do with my daughter. I'm like here's all

00:37:42.730 --> 00:37:45.179
the speed bumps This is what they smell like.

00:37:45.219 --> 00:37:47.820
This is the color. You decide how fast you drive

00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.219
because this one hurts. This one is bumpy and

00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:52.739
it fucking hurts. And that's what I really like

00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:55.739
to do with women and perimenopause and menopause.

00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.019
I'm like, this is going to be a little bit bumpy,

00:37:58.219 --> 00:38:00.119
but we can probably get you to a place where

00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.460
you feel more like yourself. So I don't know.

00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:09.500
I think for me, I've met a lot of trans women

00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:13.579
that I feel like it's a different type of hard.

00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:17.199
Oh, yeah. Yeah, like I can't imagine how that

00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:19.780
feels. And I think when I was younger, I was

00:38:19.780 --> 00:38:22.840
like, this is our land. And I was like, you can

00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:25.159
come to our land and we'll tell you how hard

00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:27.920
it is. And come and visit it. Come back now.

00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:32.260
We're like, here's the fun parts. And I was like,

00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:34.119
oh, could you tell me why you buy your shoes?

00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.219
Because I'm giants. And you're a bigger too.

00:38:36.699 --> 00:38:40.610
But I just have been like. you know, like excited

00:38:40.610 --> 00:38:43.489
to see them feel more comfortable in their bodies

00:38:43.489 --> 00:38:46.510
and like what that does to a person, you know?

00:38:46.750 --> 00:38:49.030
Yeah. To feel comfortable. What about you, the

00:38:49.030 --> 00:38:53.429
Whitney? Oh. I definitely think that our culture

00:38:53.429 --> 00:38:59.489
is missing an initiation into womanhood and boyhood

00:38:59.489 --> 00:39:03.489
or manhood and I feel like that was a Freudian

00:39:03.489 --> 00:39:11.760
slip you animal. Yeah, that's true. I haven't

00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.800
always been the most secure about my body because

00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:19.280
I don't know very many women who are. Honestly,

00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:25.539
it's marketing. I do it. It's everywhere about

00:39:25.539 --> 00:39:31.360
products and getting the male gaze. Our worth

00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:34.820
was so ingrained into us that when we grow up,

00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:38.280
we get married and have babies. We have to do

00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:42.349
that by... looking a certain way. You know, it

00:39:42.349 --> 00:39:46.329
is just so deeply ingrained. And for so long,

00:39:46.510 --> 00:39:50.070
I thought that if I were a size two, all my problems

00:39:50.070 --> 00:39:53.849
would disappear. I remember, like, that was my

00:39:53.849 --> 00:39:56.989
main problem. Like, if only this, everything

00:39:56.989 --> 00:40:00.389
would be better. I became a size two. And I'm

00:40:00.389 --> 00:40:02.710
going to tell you, it's just different problems.

00:40:03.130 --> 00:40:07.030
Right? So that's a humbling moment. I'm still

00:40:07.030 --> 00:40:11.000
learning on how to feel safe. in my body and

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:15.360
how to enjoy my body and move my body. So I'm

00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:19.079
not the best person to ask about owning ownership

00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:23.139
in my body. I am still learning at 36, but I

00:40:23.139 --> 00:40:27.300
can tell you I have not for the longest time

00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:30.380
looked in the mirror and said, if only I were

00:40:30.380 --> 00:40:34.780
this, then life would be better. I've achieved

00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:40.070
some wisdom since then. I think that's the first

00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:43.610
step. I think that is the first step of letting

00:40:43.610 --> 00:40:48.289
go of trying to fit into a box that society has

00:40:48.289 --> 00:40:51.730
painted for you that's the perfect female form,

00:40:51.949 --> 00:40:53.929
letting go of that and then starting to just

00:40:53.929 --> 00:40:57.670
appreciate that your body moves, that your body

00:40:57.670 --> 00:41:00.250
shows up for you every single day, that your

00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:05.860
body absorbs sunlight and kisses your dog. can

00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:08.679
speak to your friends and can laugh and these

00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:11.739
hands that you know take care of people and I

00:41:11.739 --> 00:41:13.920
think when you can start shedding the weight

00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:18.500
or the size or the color or you know the smoothness

00:41:18.650 --> 00:41:21.510
then all those other amazing things start to

00:41:21.510 --> 00:41:23.909
fall. Smoothness? I don't know if I'll give that

00:41:23.909 --> 00:41:27.469
one up. Some people won't. But I actually really

00:41:27.469 --> 00:41:31.230
like the sensations of being alive, right? So

00:41:31.230 --> 00:41:35.170
for me, I don't know. I do a job that people

00:41:35.170 --> 00:41:40.559
view as superficial. Being in this side of it

00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:44.559
where we talk to people about how their confidence

00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:47.420
is affected by the questions that people even

00:41:47.420 --> 00:41:49.980
ask them. Someone says, are you tired? Are you

00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:52.739
angry? When they say that to somebody enough

00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:56.300
in a day, Botox does impact them. If they don't

00:41:56.300 --> 00:41:59.530
look tired. Because you give them progesterone

00:41:59.530 --> 00:42:02.070
and they can sleep and their neurotransmitters

00:42:02.070 --> 00:42:05.090
change that is impactful So I think like when

00:42:05.090 --> 00:42:07.769
you say you're learning your body. I think we

00:42:07.769 --> 00:42:11.750
probably learn our body in every 5 to 10 year

00:42:11.750 --> 00:42:13.969
increments as we go through different phases

00:42:13.969 --> 00:42:17.929
of our life and our brain Changes like what we

00:42:17.929 --> 00:42:22.090
value our value systems who we listen to but

00:42:22.090 --> 00:42:25.449
there's another caveat Estrogen is the hormone

00:42:25.449 --> 00:42:29.090
of accommodation, so as that diminishes in our

00:42:29.090 --> 00:42:33.590
body, our give -a -dem from external input really

00:42:33.590 --> 00:42:37.469
changes. And then I think what you said is incredibly

00:42:37.469 --> 00:42:40.840
valuable, Whitney, when you Achieve this goal

00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:44.039
that you found to be something that would give

00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.039
you happiness. I think that that happens to people

00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.139
with non -body goals, with financial goals, with

00:42:50.139 --> 00:42:53.519
education goals, with kid goals. You start to

00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:56.960
realize always having that thing you're chasing

00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:00.139
isn't the point. It's how fun you, how much fun

00:43:00.139 --> 00:43:02.780
you have chasing it, right? How much fun Walter

00:43:02.780 --> 00:43:05.980
is for you. You know, you, how much... fun your

00:43:05.980 --> 00:43:09.099
two boys are, how much fun it is to find the

00:43:09.099 --> 00:43:12.579
tattoo for your chest, right? So I think, I don't

00:43:12.579 --> 00:43:16.260
know, I think the most special thing is deciding

00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:19.079
to be a community of women that doesn't break

00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.900
itself down from the inside out. I think that's

00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:25.739
what I wanna die doing. When I get old and smelly,

00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:30.019
I wanna have, or young and stinky. I could be

00:43:30.019 --> 00:43:32.599
stinky at any point who cares but you know what

00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:35.900
I mean like I want to have a group of women that

00:43:35.900 --> 00:43:38.820
are on my team like I feel like that's invaluable

00:43:38.820 --> 00:43:42.699
you know this is your friend that's like hello

00:43:42.699 --> 00:43:45.420
everything is an herbal supplement you can save

00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:48.420
your life just rub some zinc on your nose and

00:43:48.420 --> 00:43:50.579
you'll get them all better and then you have

00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:53.199
your friend that is like pretty smooth every

00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:56.679
day And then your other friend that's like, shut

00:43:56.679 --> 00:43:58.719
up, guys. Let's get in the water and let's swim.

00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.800
Let's go on the beach. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess

00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:05.000
I'm really happy that I get to be a woman. And

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.579
I'm really happy for all the types of women it

00:44:09.579 --> 00:44:13.519
takes to make the tribe I've created. Is there

00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:16.079
any other questions you guys want to cover to

00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:20.099
finish it up? I'm curious about your mastectomy.

00:44:20.139 --> 00:44:24.650
And I've just been... Like, I hear you talking

00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:29.190
in such gratitude about life and your body and

00:44:29.190 --> 00:44:32.070
I wonder if that has anything to do with it or

00:44:32.070 --> 00:44:35.809
were you born always this sweet? Or did you find

00:44:35.809 --> 00:44:40.269
a new perspective? I will say that has been a

00:44:40.269 --> 00:44:44.610
surprise with all of this. And I might get emotional.

00:44:44.909 --> 00:44:47.449
I thought I was ready for... you know stuff like

00:44:47.449 --> 00:44:50.670
this but it's all the things it's you know I

00:44:50.670 --> 00:44:53.710
mean it's it's so much we could probably do another

00:44:53.710 --> 00:44:57.429
podcast talking about this but we wanted to but

00:44:57.429 --> 00:44:59.929
Megan just said let it we'll see if it would

00:44:59.929 --> 00:45:04.989
come up organically yeah um it's there's so much

00:45:04.989 --> 00:45:08.639
to talk about but Yes, the gratitude that I have

00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:10.719
for my body and the way that it has shown up

00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.119
for me with this transcends, I mean every external

00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.820
force that our society labels us or puts on us.

00:45:18.860 --> 00:45:22.219
It is. It's all, it's within all of us and when

00:45:22.219 --> 00:45:25.179
you have to make that choice of life and death

00:45:25.179 --> 00:45:28.440
and you have to carve out everything that society

00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.340
has labeled you as a female, you have to carve

00:45:31.340 --> 00:45:33.940
out your chest and I have to carve out, you know,

00:45:34.219 --> 00:45:37.300
my uterus and my ovaries and slowly but surely

00:45:37.300 --> 00:45:40.150
all of these things were removed from me. And

00:45:40.150 --> 00:45:43.449
I have never felt more feminine energy in my

00:45:43.449 --> 00:45:46.750
life than having these things, these body parts,

00:45:47.010 --> 00:45:49.610
these bits and pieces that define us as women

00:45:49.610 --> 00:45:52.670
taken from me and giving that example to my daughter.

00:45:52.829 --> 00:45:55.670
That was a driving force for me. I watched my

00:45:55.670 --> 00:45:58.170
mom die a month before my daughter was born at

00:45:58.170 --> 00:46:01.210
50 years old from breast cancer. And when you

00:46:01.210 --> 00:46:03.570
are, when you have a front row seat to that,

00:46:03.829 --> 00:46:05.690
that's, you would think that that would be enough

00:46:05.690 --> 00:46:08.760
to make the decision. When you get the genetic

00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:12.079
diagnosis that you do in fact have the BRCA gene

00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.210
which is the heavy hitter, right? But it wasn't.

00:46:15.429 --> 00:46:18.150
It was interesting to me and my grandmother had

00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:20.369
a breast removed and she raised me until I was

00:46:20.369 --> 00:46:22.510
eight. She had a breast removed and I remember

00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:24.510
waking up with her in the morning and seeing

00:46:24.510 --> 00:46:28.869
her put on her bra and stuffing the pad and the

00:46:28.869 --> 00:46:32.510
other side and learning about her story and my

00:46:32.510 --> 00:46:35.469
grandfather's story as I got older, their divorce

00:46:35.469 --> 00:46:37.769
because of her breast cancer. You would think

00:46:37.769 --> 00:46:40.590
that would make me make the decision. But what

00:46:40.590 --> 00:46:44.460
made me make the decision was I ended up just

00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:47.840
doing the more conservative route after receiving

00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:51.460
my genetic diagnosis and doing testing. So your

00:46:51.460 --> 00:46:54.320
mammogram and then your MRI with contrast every

00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:57.380
six months, right? Starting at 35. I was actually

00:46:57.380 --> 00:47:00.780
36 when I got the genetic diagnosis. So I'd had

00:47:00.780 --> 00:47:04.679
my daughter at 35. So I was technically geriatric.

00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:09.320
But I just thought for her, I needed to get this

00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:11.820
test. And I thought there's no way in hell I

00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:14.159
would be positive for this because I always identified

00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:16.940
more genetically with my dad's side of the family.

00:47:17.179 --> 00:47:20.360
I have his shape, I have his nose, I have his

00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:23.760
vibe, right? I never was itty, my mom was itty

00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:27.400
bitty, teeny teeny tiny, right? So was my grandmother,

00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:30.079
and I just wasn't that way. Needless to say,

00:47:30.340 --> 00:47:33.980
I ended up getting a mammogram call, a callback

00:47:33.980 --> 00:47:37.219
saying that I have a cyst on my left breast.

00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.659
And the emotional and mental spiral that you

00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:45.469
think, holy shit, I fucking... I waited too long.

00:47:45.570 --> 00:47:48.210
Like, who did I think I was to not think that

00:47:48.210 --> 00:47:51.090
this wouldn't come after me, right? So after

00:47:51.090 --> 00:47:54.369
two months of your hurry up and wait, doctor

00:47:54.369 --> 00:47:56.750
visits and biopsies and all of that stuff, it

00:47:56.750 --> 00:47:59.969
came back benign. And that relief that I wasn't

00:47:59.969 --> 00:48:02.050
going to have to put my family through chemo,

00:48:02.170 --> 00:48:05.590
radiation, whatever, right, was huge. And then

00:48:05.590 --> 00:48:09.730
I decided to gamble again and just wait and do

00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:12.849
my MRI with contrast because I was not ready.

00:48:13.070 --> 00:48:16.050
to do a bilateral mastectomy and a full hysterectomy.

00:48:16.130 --> 00:48:19.590
I don't know why I wasn't, but I just wasn't.

00:48:19.809 --> 00:48:22.900
I was scared. Right? I watched my grandmother

00:48:22.900 --> 00:48:25.300
go through surgeries and a divorce because of

00:48:25.300 --> 00:48:27.840
it, my mother die because of it. I've already

00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:31.360
had a scare one time and I still didn't have

00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:34.519
the courage to take that next step. And then

00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:37.159
I did the MRI with contrast and they called me

00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.000
and let me know that my right breast had lit

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.420
up and I needed to come back in for a biopsy.

00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:48.039
And it was just like, I am done. And so I pulled

00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:52.480
out my little sticky note. And I called the genetic

00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:55.420
specialist that had been in my wallet for seven

00:48:55.420 --> 00:48:59.079
years and made an appointment with her. And I

00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:02.099
couldn't even talk to her for two or three months.

00:49:02.260 --> 00:49:06.099
But I got the ball rolling. And so I was able

00:49:06.099 --> 00:49:09.179
to have that peace of mind. And talking to her,

00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:12.280
she's a specialist. And she gave me all the numbers

00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.300
of my particular genetic predisposition. And

00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:18.099
then I had witnessed it firsthand. And it was

00:49:18.099 --> 00:49:20.480
like, OK, I need to make this... I need to do

00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:25.440
this. And everything fell into place. The doctors,

00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.559
the nurses, the referrals, the friends. I mean,

00:49:29.619 --> 00:49:32.079
there were so many women that came into my world

00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.679
with questions about them. There were so many

00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:36.900
women that came to me saying that they had a

00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:39.260
genetic diagnosis and then they ended up getting

00:49:39.260 --> 00:49:44.139
cancer. Some daughters, their mothers had died.

00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:47.219
and they were warned and it was it was just this

00:49:47.219 --> 00:49:50.019
constant outpouring and support of women and

00:49:50.019 --> 00:49:53.280
maybe some divine intervention to a certain extent

00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.280
that it was like take care of yourself and then

00:49:56.730 --> 00:49:59.789
I had to make the decision, I didn't know this

00:49:59.789 --> 00:50:03.889
was possible, of reconstruction for my body because

00:50:03.889 --> 00:50:08.349
I hadn't had cancer. They could do a nipple and

00:50:08.349 --> 00:50:10.969
a skin -sparing mastectomy for me. And I didn't

00:50:10.969 --> 00:50:13.130
even know that this existed. Yeah, that's very

00:50:13.130 --> 00:50:15.190
special. You know, and then I'm talking to this

00:50:15.190 --> 00:50:19.630
doctor and I was dead set on not having reconstruction

00:50:19.630 --> 00:50:24.050
done. My mom, again, was young, 14, 15. I remember

00:50:24.050 --> 00:50:26.250
being a little girl, seeing my mom in the bathtub.

00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:29.320
of itty bitty tiny breasts and I knew that like

00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:32.860
that wasn't voluptuous or beautiful. And it was

00:50:32.860 --> 00:50:34.719
probably two years later she had breast implants

00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:36.719
done and that's when she was wearing the bikinis

00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.139
for all of the missionaries all the time. I mean

00:50:39.139 --> 00:50:43.199
she loved her body, right? But those implants

00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:46.559
blocked my mom's breast cancer diagnosis. And

00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:50.400
so for me it was like I cannot put implants in

00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:52.800
my body. So just take them out. And then when

00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:55.760
she told me we can do a body tissue transfer.

00:50:56.030 --> 00:50:58.710
It was like, yay, everything's so great. But

00:50:58.710 --> 00:51:01.670
then I just had, I went through everything. It's

00:51:01.670 --> 00:51:05.369
been 18 months. And this last surgery, the reconstruction

00:51:05.369 --> 00:51:11.110
was brutal. It was so brutal that I still need

00:51:11.110 --> 00:51:14.329
time to process and decide if I would do it again.

00:51:15.750 --> 00:51:18.769
For now, I mean, I'm tore up from the floor up.

00:51:18.869 --> 00:51:20.889
I'm not going to be a bikini model anytime soon,

00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:24.380
but I'm... grateful I think to have my shape,

00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.539
but I don't think that I would be sad if I didn't.

00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:30.440
Because again, to your point, I have never felt

00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:34.300
more feminine than having all of my feminine

00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:38.000
bits removed from my body. Yeah. the female part,

00:51:38.059 --> 00:51:41.159
but the feminine part is like your soul, right?

00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:44.619
Because that's the whole point. What people say

00:51:44.619 --> 00:51:49.599
is what their soul feels like. So, you know,

00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:52.860
minds can be changed, ideas can be changed about

00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:55.539
what that is. But yeah, I've never connected

00:51:55.539 --> 00:52:00.559
with my feminine energy more. No, that's pretty

00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:04.070
special. Right? It is. It's really special. But

00:52:04.070 --> 00:52:06.550
I mean, I could go on and on. I have so many

00:52:06.550 --> 00:52:09.670
incredible instances, insights, perspectives

00:52:09.670 --> 00:52:12.769
that have come from this journey. And you know,

00:52:13.110 --> 00:52:16.809
women need to know that we are more than our

00:52:16.809 --> 00:52:19.670
bodies. So much more. So much more. And for our

00:52:19.670 --> 00:52:22.110
daughters, I thought laying in bed with my daughter

00:52:22.110 --> 00:52:26.659
one night that she would maybe one day be diagnosed

00:52:26.659 --> 00:52:29.219
with this and be too afraid to take the leap

00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:32.400
if she were to see my body without breasts. Oh,

00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.239
I see. And there was this moment of like, okay,

00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:38.699
I need to look into body tissue transfer for

00:52:38.699 --> 00:52:42.440
her. So when she sees my body, she still sees

00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:45.630
this feminine body. Kind of like what you saw

00:52:45.630 --> 00:52:47.829
when you were a little girl of your mom, right?

00:52:48.130 --> 00:52:50.710
Absolutely. So when she sees me, she won't be

00:52:50.710 --> 00:52:53.469
afraid if she has to make that decision because

00:52:53.469 --> 00:52:56.570
she, I don't want her to see this monster, right?

00:52:56.789 --> 00:52:59.630
Yeah. So I went forward and did the body tissue

00:52:59.630 --> 00:53:02.090
transfer and don't get me wrong, we're still

00:53:02.090 --> 00:53:05.110
in the healing stages. I'm still looking at my

00:53:05.110 --> 00:53:08.170
body in the mirror physically and trying to acquaint

00:53:08.170 --> 00:53:11.320
myself with the new look, but my daughter has

00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:14.559
fully seen my body. I've had zero shame in showing

00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.300
her. How old is your daughter? She's eight. That's

00:53:17.300 --> 00:53:20.539
good. We're very body positive in our house.

00:53:21.179 --> 00:53:23.420
Yeah. The naked bomb house. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:53:23.500 --> 00:53:26.059
Absolutely. All the things, the stretch marks

00:53:26.059 --> 00:53:29.619
and the, you know, the shapes and the sizes and

00:53:29.619 --> 00:53:33.019
the scars and, you know, our bodies are just

00:53:33.019 --> 00:53:35.400
these beautiful vessels that get us through this

00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.039
incredible thing called life. Right. And it's

00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.300
the journey. Right? We have these beautiful vessels

00:53:41.300 --> 00:53:44.960
that we get to touch and feel. The sensations

00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.099
of life. I like the sensations of life. Yes.

00:53:48.260 --> 00:53:50.340
And I think if we can be in tune with that more

00:53:50.340 --> 00:53:53.900
instead of the weight, the size, the shape, it's

00:53:53.900 --> 00:53:59.199
empowering. Yeah. I actually love that. That

00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:02.139
makes me really happy to hear how, well, and

00:54:02.139 --> 00:54:04.599
also for you to be a resource for other people.

00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:07.599
Yeah. Because I think the whole time your message

00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:10.579
has been pretty positive and honest, like about

00:54:10.579 --> 00:54:13.159
how parts of your, you know, puberty, how that

00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:16.280
was horrible. But the version of you that had

00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:18.920
two babies, three babies, two boys and a girl,

00:54:19.099 --> 00:54:21.360
it sounds like. And now the version of you that

00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:24.099
wants to go through life being a good example

00:54:24.099 --> 00:54:27.679
to your daughter. Yeah. I don't think there's

00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:31.039
anything better than that boob identity, right?

00:54:31.340 --> 00:54:33.500
She's like... And not even just my daughter,

00:54:33.659 --> 00:54:37.000
but your daughter. And this daughter. And we

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:39.360
have this whole generation of young girls growing

00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:41.820
up that are watching us, whether we like it or

00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:44.239
not. That's true. You're in the marketing industry,

00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:46.880
right? What you put on display for them, I think

00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:49.400
having women like us in the field to make sure

00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:51.840
that we're extremely thoughtful about what we

00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:54.559
put out there and the narrative and the whys,

00:54:54.739 --> 00:54:57.219
right? I love that you hit on with me having

00:54:57.219 --> 00:54:59.949
a full hysterectomy. I've done a deep dive into

00:54:59.949 --> 00:55:03.889
progesterone, estradiol, testosterone, and understanding

00:55:03.889 --> 00:55:06.570
how that can help your body. It's not just about

00:55:06.570 --> 00:55:09.250
aesthetics and looking pretty or looking beautiful.

00:55:09.409 --> 00:55:13.050
It's about feeling good. I think the other thing

00:55:13.050 --> 00:55:16.750
too is we think about the way we look. By the

00:55:16.750 --> 00:55:19.610
time somebody comes to me that estrogen has changed

00:55:19.610 --> 00:55:22.429
their skin and we got to think about the skin

00:55:22.429 --> 00:55:24.909
that's for your heart and for your brain. Yeah.

00:55:25.090 --> 00:55:28.489
So sometimes that's how we got into the conversation

00:55:28.489 --> 00:55:31.309
with aesthetic medicine. It's new to everybody

00:55:31.309 --> 00:55:35.449
else, but I've been doing hormones for 10 years

00:55:35.449 --> 00:55:38.429
for patients because the ethical approach wasn't

00:55:38.429 --> 00:55:41.980
always to give someone Botox or filler. The ethical

00:55:41.980 --> 00:55:44.420
approach is if you give somebody a little bit

00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:46.800
of progesterone, it can level their mood off

00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.619
to the point where they may not feel like they

00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:54.599
want the botox, right? So things like that, the

00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:57.500
ethics behind aesthetic medicine is the whole

00:55:57.500 --> 00:56:01.280
point for me is you can take up space, you can

00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:04.119
enter this world and be as deep or shallow in

00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:07.400
it as you want. You can dip a toe in and use

00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:10.469
CeraVe on your feet. Like that as far as you

00:56:10.469 --> 00:56:14.530
ever have to go into aesthetics. But as far as

00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:18.369
like the hormone component, it does change the

00:56:18.369 --> 00:56:21.550
way you feel. A thousand percent. I think that

00:56:21.550 --> 00:56:24.170
that will be really good as you go through this

00:56:24.170 --> 00:56:27.789
process to see what... the recommendations are

00:56:27.789 --> 00:56:30.670
from your oncologist and then the risk factors

00:56:30.670 --> 00:56:33.949
and actually the benefits of how it affects your

00:56:33.949 --> 00:56:36.789
long -term well -being, your cognitive function,

00:56:37.230 --> 00:56:40.889
your insulin resistance, all of that. All the

00:56:40.889 --> 00:56:44.980
things. I am so happy I met you. Yeah. I'm so

00:56:44.980 --> 00:56:47.739
happy I met you both. Yeah. So I guess we have

00:56:47.739 --> 00:56:50.519
just a little bit of different perspectives on

00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:53.960
our bodies after spending some time together.

00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:58.059
So I love you, the Whitney, and I'm so glad that

00:56:58.059 --> 00:57:00.659
you could join us. And I already love you. I'm

00:57:00.659 --> 00:57:04.139
so glad to meet you. Thanks for coming in. And

00:57:04.139 --> 00:57:07.440
I'm glad that you're alive. I know. I'm so glad

00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.239
you're alive too. I'll be around for a really

00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:11.920
long time. Yeah. Good job. Yeah. God willing,

00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:15.800
anyway. Yep. That's the only one, right? Well,

00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:18.300
thank you so much for joining us today. You're

00:57:18.300 --> 00:57:18.380
welcome.