Lion King and Healing Trauma | Alton Fitzgerald White

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.100
I grew up in public housing in Cincinnati, the

00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:05.200
projects. And she said this in front of the class.

00:00:05.299 --> 00:00:07.320
I remember thinking, is she talking to me? Did

00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:09.679
she really say this? That little painfully shy

00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:13.099
kid who was abused and teased and bullied became

00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:16.239
the king. But that's one of the things I love

00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:19.300
about Lion King is that we're all Scar, we're

00:00:19.300 --> 00:00:22.019
all Mufasa, we're all Simba. It's all about tapping

00:00:22.019 --> 00:00:24.820
into the different parts of yourself. And we

00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:26.800
get to define who we are. When it happens with

00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.739
Simba... It's something, there's a cut, there's

00:00:29.739 --> 00:00:32.479
a break in your life. And there's a before the

00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:35.320
event and an after. I mean, I was pure love as

00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.619
a kid. I was naive. And no matter what happened

00:00:38.619 --> 00:00:40.719
to me, I always saw the bright side. I was born

00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:46.859
with an optimism. In every creature, in every

00:00:46.859 --> 00:01:01.000
star, in your reflection, they live in you. Welcome

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:04.780
to Yes and Land, where we say yes to the reality

00:01:04.780 --> 00:01:08.640
of yesterday and today, and we say and to the

00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.319
possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow.

00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:21.980
All right, welcome everybody to our next episode

00:01:21.980 --> 00:01:24.359
of Yes, Ant -Land. We are very excited today.

00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:28.140
We are joined by somebody who has had a storied

00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:32.700
career, Alton Fitzgerald White, who played Mufasa

00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:36.599
on Broadway for more than 4 ,000 performances,

00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:39.620
which is just a feat in and of itself. But that's,

00:01:39.620 --> 00:01:41.459
of course, not the only thing to his story. He

00:01:41.459 --> 00:01:43.180
has many things to his story, which we will dive

00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:51.599
into today. uh struggled with uh some some different

00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.359
things in his childhood which we will kind of

00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.239
go over and found his way to playing an amazing

00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.819
role uh but also to doing a lot of other amazing

00:01:58.819 --> 00:02:01.579
things and now today no longer performing as

00:02:01.579 --> 00:02:04.159
mufasa on broadway but he is an author of an

00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:06.459
amazing book called my pride right alton that's

00:02:06.459 --> 00:02:08.080
what we got that's what it is do you have that

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.240
there with you hold that up my pride mastering

00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:14.539
life's daily performance Which is a must read.

00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:17.960
I read it. I read the whole thing and just loved

00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:21.740
it. I actually consume my books on Audible. He

00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:24.680
reads it himself. And as you might imagine, since

00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:27.219
he played Mufasa on Broadway, has a terrific

00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:29.780
voice and a terrific reading voice, which he

00:02:29.780 --> 00:02:31.520
actually does talk about in the book as well,

00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:33.500
which was not necessarily something you thought

00:02:33.500 --> 00:02:35.340
was a great strength when you were growing up.

00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:37.490
But we'll talk about that. we'll talk about that

00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:40.430
right um and now he does uh public speaking and

00:02:40.430 --> 00:02:42.430
presenting and does things like singing with

00:02:42.430 --> 00:02:44.349
the boston pops which he was just doing last

00:02:44.349 --> 00:02:47.610
week and uh so just really excited to have this

00:02:47.610 --> 00:02:49.590
great conversation to learn from somebody with

00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:51.969
so much life experience uh who hopefully today

00:02:51.969 --> 00:02:53.629
is going to be a little bit like a mufasa for

00:02:53.629 --> 00:02:56.229
us and help to impart some wisdom today ryan

00:02:56.229 --> 00:02:59.389
you have forgotten me oh see that's exactly what

00:02:59.389 --> 00:03:01.270
we want yeah see now i need i need to like i

00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:03.069
need to cut that right and i need to like put

00:03:03.069 --> 00:03:05.389
that as my ringtone or like at night when i'm

00:03:05.389 --> 00:03:06.870
getting ready like have my meditation before

00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:09.330
i go to bed like that's what i need right oh

00:03:09.330 --> 00:03:12.389
it's amazing one of the great lines right from

00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:15.189
uh lion king both the the original movie and

00:03:15.189 --> 00:03:17.669
then of course the the broadway version uh which

00:03:17.669 --> 00:03:19.430
is just a favorite for many people certainly

00:03:19.430 --> 00:03:22.449
was a favorite for mine growing up um i was born

00:03:22.449 --> 00:03:25.550
in 82 and so lion king was like the heart of

00:03:25.550 --> 00:03:29.379
my youth and was just Such an important thing

00:03:29.379 --> 00:03:32.080
for me that I just, I love the Lion King, like

00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.460
so many kids in my generation. So, well, before

00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:40.120
we start diving into you playing Mufasa on Broadway,

00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:42.860
you know, take us back to a little bit about

00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:44.319
your youth. Did you say that you were born in

00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.800
1982? Yes, born in 82. This is the year I graduated

00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:54.610
high school. My son, my child. Hey, you know,

00:03:54.610 --> 00:03:57.270
once we're this age, you know, we're about the

00:03:57.270 --> 00:03:59.090
same, right? It all kind of blends in once you

00:03:59.090 --> 00:04:01.509
mature. It does. I always kind of say, you know,

00:04:01.530 --> 00:04:05.509
once you're about 40, like 40s, 50s, like it's

00:04:05.509 --> 00:04:07.949
all the same, right? It's like it blends together.

00:04:09.229 --> 00:04:12.110
But, you know, when you graduated high school,

00:04:12.189 --> 00:04:14.729
82, so you experienced the 80s, right, through

00:04:14.729 --> 00:04:17.350
and through. Some great things from the 80s.

00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:20.680
I'm a little biased. What's your opinion about

00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:23.680
the greatest decade of music? What would you

00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.560
say that is? I'm biased. I mean, 80s for me,

00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.060
because, like, that's when I was really coming

00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:30.600
to age. We had all the great dance music, feel

00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.699
-good music, music to make you want to move.

00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:37.139
And we just started to, like, you know, be, like,

00:04:37.139 --> 00:04:39.860
more socially conscious music coming up. But

00:04:39.860 --> 00:04:42.160
for the most part, a lot of it was the British

00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.519
invasion. There wasn't a live instrument to be

00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:48.199
found. It was all synthesizers. But it all tickled

00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:51.060
your brain and made you want to move. So that's

00:04:51.060 --> 00:04:55.120
one of my favorite periods. Again, I'm biased.

00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.300
It's the 90s for me because that's when I started

00:04:57.300 --> 00:04:59.660
listening to my own music. So my parents were

00:04:59.660 --> 00:05:01.379
not a lot older, but a little bit older when

00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.540
they had me. So they were more 60s and 70s, which

00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:06.279
I have a great appreciation for. But they didn't

00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:08.500
really transition much into the 80s. And then

00:05:08.500 --> 00:05:11.360
I start listening when I'm 8, 9, 10, and it's

00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.819
the 90s. And then suddenly you have, you know,

00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:15.019
all the wonderful things that come out of the

00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:16.759
90s. So for me, I'm like totally biased. I love

00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:19.639
90s music. I think so much came from the 90s.

00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:20.920
I'll give you an example. But I will stay. Give

00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:24.100
me an example of a couple of groups that you

00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:27.199
love from the 90s. Well, interestingly enough,

00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:28.519
I was actually going to talk to you about this.

00:05:28.579 --> 00:05:31.759
One that I loved so much was Boyz II Men. And

00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.740
in part because of the vocal harmonies they had,

00:05:34.779 --> 00:05:38.009
but also their style. Because I believe, Elton,

00:05:38.089 --> 00:05:40.889
that when you were a young lad, you liked to

00:05:40.889 --> 00:05:43.410
dress a little bit nicer, if I'm not mistaken.

00:05:43.649 --> 00:05:45.430
I did, absolutely, yeah. You dressed for everything.

00:05:45.550 --> 00:05:48.189
Everything was an occasion. Yeah, absolutely.

00:05:48.189 --> 00:05:50.850
Yeah, and I was the same way. I loved their style.

00:05:51.029 --> 00:05:52.910
And so when I was in junior high school, I was

00:05:52.910 --> 00:05:55.449
a kid dressing in button -down shirts and slacks

00:05:55.449 --> 00:05:58.389
when other kids were, you know, shorts and T

00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:00.430
-shirts. And so I definitely got teased for that

00:06:00.430 --> 00:06:02.009
a little bit. I was that guy in high school,

00:06:02.069 --> 00:06:04.350
too, who would wear a tie and a blazer with jeans.

00:06:04.569 --> 00:06:06.129
They'd be like, why are you so formal? I'm like...

00:06:06.329 --> 00:06:09.689
But I just discovered GQ magazine in my mid -teens.

00:06:09.709 --> 00:06:12.029
So I was like, wow, it's a chance to be individual.

00:06:12.550 --> 00:06:14.370
Because as men, we don't have that many options.

00:06:14.769 --> 00:06:18.449
You know, a haircut, mustache, no face, hairless.

00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:22.829
Clothes really, really help to kind of your personality.

00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:25.410
And I see that it's hung over. Because, dude,

00:06:25.509 --> 00:06:27.430
every time I've met you, you've been sharply

00:06:27.430 --> 00:06:30.589
addressed. So good for you. I appreciate that.

00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:33.620
I have always enjoyed dressing up. There's just

00:06:33.620 --> 00:06:35.720
something about dressing up that makes me feel

00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:38.040
a little bit sharper. It feels a little bit more

00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.959
like, okay, I'm professional. I can do this.

00:06:41.019 --> 00:06:43.540
Kind of like empowers me, so to speak. And people

00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:45.899
tease me, but I actually like wearing a suit.

00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:47.240
I think it's fun. I think it's comfortable. I

00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:51.720
tell when I mentor kids who are about auditioning,

00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:53.839
because auditioning is tough. You can have all

00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:55.819
the time in the world, but not everybody auditions.

00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.389
I always tell kids. Wear whatever makes you feel

00:06:59.389 --> 00:07:01.670
like a million bucks going into that movie. It's

00:07:01.670 --> 00:07:03.990
how you feel is the most important thing, right?

00:07:04.430 --> 00:07:06.389
Make sure it's appropriate for the occasion.

00:07:06.750 --> 00:07:08.490
But if it makes you feel like a million bucks,

00:07:08.649 --> 00:07:10.930
that's what you wear. Because confidence is key,

00:07:11.029 --> 00:07:14.029
right? Yeah, I think that's great advice. And

00:07:14.029 --> 00:07:17.170
I think that advice applies as well for somebody

00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:19.680
going into an interview, right? You know, you

00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:22.600
do need to understand what that particular job

00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:25.160
should look like as far as that goes. But you

00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.000
do want to be comfortable because a lot of times

00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:29.459
people will get in their head about it. You know,

00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:32.879
interestingly enough, I actually I learned that

00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:35.180
when I was trying to apply for my first job.

00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:38.339
My brother, who's a year and a half older than

00:07:38.339 --> 00:07:41.379
I, he and I were up for the same job. It was

00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:44.040
as we call a sweeper at an elementary school.

00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.519
Right. So you have the gender and then, you know,

00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:48.040
they hire these teenage kids to be sweepers.

00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:50.970
And so we both went in for interview. I dressed

00:07:50.970 --> 00:07:53.250
in a shirt and tie. He dressed in just casual

00:07:53.250 --> 00:07:56.410
wear. And afterwards, the feedback was they hired

00:07:56.410 --> 00:07:58.209
him because that was more of what they were looking

00:07:58.209 --> 00:07:59.829
for. And I was a little bit too formal. And I

00:07:59.829 --> 00:08:01.230
was like, well, I guess I didn't understand the

00:08:01.230 --> 00:08:04.110
assignment. Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah, gotcha,

00:08:04.110 --> 00:08:07.589
gotcha, gotcha. But still, you did your thing.

00:08:07.769 --> 00:08:09.930
You know, it's about making a choice. I did,

00:08:09.930 --> 00:08:12.290
you know, I stayed true to who I was. Yeah, yeah.

00:08:12.790 --> 00:08:14.589
Yep. And then, you know, a few months later,

00:08:14.649 --> 00:08:17.819
I applied for a different sweeper job. That person's

00:08:17.819 --> 00:08:19.279
personality probably matched mine better because

00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:20.899
then I got that job and I dressed the same way.

00:08:20.939 --> 00:08:24.680
So it was great. It all came around. So let's

00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:27.420
take us back to you growing up in Cincinnati.

00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:31.110
And, you know, take us just through a little

00:08:31.110 --> 00:08:32.730
bit of that. I mean, there's certainly a lot.

00:08:32.769 --> 00:08:35.389
And anybody who's listening, you need to, like,

00:08:35.389 --> 00:08:37.370
read the entire book because there's so much

00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:40.210
more about understanding about where Alton came

00:08:40.210 --> 00:08:42.769
from and what things, you know, really shaped

00:08:42.769 --> 00:08:44.509
who he is. But give us a little bit of a snippet

00:08:44.509 --> 00:08:48.009
of what life was like for you growing up initially

00:08:48.009 --> 00:08:50.009
and some of the challenges you faced. I grew

00:08:50.009 --> 00:08:53.149
up in public housing in Cincinnati, the projects.

00:08:55.470 --> 00:09:00.570
Youngest of seven kids. the only boy in the household.

00:09:02.049 --> 00:09:05.590
So myself and my father were the only men in

00:09:05.590 --> 00:09:08.610
the house, and it was really challenging being

00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:10.570
raised by women. I mean, it served me later in

00:09:10.570 --> 00:09:13.070
my life, but as a kid, you know, I was teased

00:09:13.070 --> 00:09:15.330
about it. You know, when I would get into a fight,

00:09:15.409 --> 00:09:18.490
as all kids do, they go get their big brother

00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:20.909
to defend them, and I went to get a sister. So

00:09:20.909 --> 00:09:24.289
I was teased about that as well. And as a result,

00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:26.350
you know, I was raised to be a very polite kid.

00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.080
very mannerable kid, which again served me later.

00:09:29.299 --> 00:09:31.620
But it was also a little bit effeminate because

00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:36.500
I had such a heavy female influence, which also

00:09:36.500 --> 00:09:38.799
served me because girls always liked me. Teachers

00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:43.720
always loved me because I had that, I had kind

00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:49.700
of a built -in strength, but I had a nice openness

00:09:49.700 --> 00:09:52.500
about myself that was attractive to people. But

00:09:52.500 --> 00:09:56.299
again, I was teased by the boys about that. because

00:09:56.299 --> 00:09:58.419
the girls were just naturally attracted to me.

00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.740
So there was a lot of stuff going on. My father,

00:10:01.779 --> 00:10:04.679
unfortunately, suffered from alcoholism. So the

00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.820
only other person in my house who looked like

00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:11.740
me was an alcoholic. And I often felt like I

00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:13.679
was competing with the alcohol for his attention,

00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:17.320
and the alcohol would win. So I really kind of

00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:20.139
felt like I was on my own. I'm really grateful

00:10:20.139 --> 00:10:22.820
that I was attracted to order, because home was

00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:25.600
so chaotic. You know, with an alcoholic parent,

00:10:25.779 --> 00:10:27.220
when you open the door, you don't know what you're

00:10:27.220 --> 00:10:29.340
going to get. Are they going to be sober? And

00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:31.019
when my father was sober, he was glued to the

00:10:31.019 --> 00:10:34.179
TV. And, you know, we all tiptoed around thinking

00:10:34.179 --> 00:10:37.759
that that would affect his drinking. And then

00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.080
sometimes you come home, he's thinking, okay,

00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.399
he's probably watching TV and he would be on

00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:44.580
a bender. And it's like, so dealing with that

00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:48.460
kind of, those kinds of inconsistencies made

00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:50.879
school really important to me, really attractive.

00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:53.850
I loved. the order i love showing up on time

00:10:53.850 --> 00:10:56.789
i loved bringing my assignment i love the validation

00:10:56.789 --> 00:10:59.889
that i got from teachers doing a good job and

00:10:59.889 --> 00:11:02.269
i'm so grateful that somehow i was attracted

00:11:02.269 --> 00:11:05.029
to that kind of validation as opposed to being

00:11:05.029 --> 00:11:07.250
like the other kids because i could never be

00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:09.370
like the other kids i knew i was different i

00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:11.330
knew that i was i was sensitive i knew that i

00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:13.490
was an artist even before i had the words to

00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:16.129
describe it and those are all things i was teased

00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:18.809
about that again later served me and thank goodness

00:11:18.809 --> 00:11:23.129
teachers saw and helped to bring bring out of

00:11:23.129 --> 00:11:26.850
me what do you think the difference was for you

00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:29.669
in in that because what we see i think sometimes

00:11:29.669 --> 00:11:31.470
unfortunately happen in those situations because

00:11:31.470 --> 00:11:35.409
we we all have this innate sense and need to

00:11:35.409 --> 00:11:37.450
belong sense of belonging is one of the core

00:11:37.450 --> 00:11:39.710
human needs so sometimes what will happen is

00:11:39.710 --> 00:11:41.649
kids we just want to be a part of it we want

00:11:41.649 --> 00:11:44.049
to be accepted this is a very important time

00:11:45.210 --> 00:11:47.409
And I think sometimes what happens is then that's

00:11:47.409 --> 00:11:49.610
why certain kids will get involved in the wrong

00:11:49.610 --> 00:11:52.950
things, like games. For you, what was that difference

00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:56.289
of that you found your sense of belonging with,

00:11:56.490 --> 00:11:58.330
you know, getting the praise from the teachers

00:11:58.330 --> 00:12:00.450
and doing great work there and that kind of stuff,

00:12:00.529 --> 00:12:04.009
as opposed to being influenced for doing things

00:12:04.009 --> 00:12:05.950
that would have been more negative, that would

00:12:05.950 --> 00:12:07.429
have gotten you into trouble? What do you think

00:12:07.429 --> 00:12:09.470
was kind of the key for you? I really feel like

00:12:09.470 --> 00:12:11.470
it's sort of like my destiny, to be totally honest,

00:12:11.590 --> 00:12:14.929
right? Because I tried to be. a bad kid. I tried

00:12:14.929 --> 00:12:16.870
to do stuff and I would always get caught. And

00:12:16.870 --> 00:12:19.450
I realized earlier that other kids can do that

00:12:19.450 --> 00:12:21.750
stuff. Other boys can be bad and do this and

00:12:21.750 --> 00:12:24.409
do that. I couldn't get away with it. My higher

00:12:24.409 --> 00:12:26.610
power was like, nope, this is not your path.

00:12:26.830 --> 00:12:29.049
So I was rejected in those ways. And again, looking

00:12:29.049 --> 00:12:31.970
back, I'm so grateful. I was pulled to like,

00:12:32.129 --> 00:12:34.570
because as a kid wanting to belong and looking

00:12:34.570 --> 00:12:36.549
for validation anywhere you can get it, I wasn't

00:12:36.549 --> 00:12:39.090
really getting it from home. But my father was

00:12:39.090 --> 00:12:41.350
doing this thing. My mother, who is my, one of

00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:43.789
my soulmates, was overwhelmed. with having all

00:12:43.789 --> 00:12:47.190
the kids and my father. And I will say that in

00:12:47.190 --> 00:12:50.289
spite of my father's alcoholism, there was tremendous

00:12:50.289 --> 00:12:53.529
love in the household. So I never not felt loved.

00:12:53.750 --> 00:12:56.990
But as a little boy, a little black boy in particular,

00:12:57.190 --> 00:12:59.950
I needed validation. And when I got from the

00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:02.190
teachers, I was like, who cares? I'm getting

00:13:02.190 --> 00:13:03.970
this something that I need that I don't even

00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:08.090
have words for yet. And that propelled me to

00:13:08.090 --> 00:13:11.549
be a fantastic student throughout my entire...

00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.460
school years. So I think part of it was just

00:13:17.460 --> 00:13:20.700
my destiny. Because I tried. I tried to be a

00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:22.580
bad kid because I wanted to be a part of a group,

00:13:22.659 --> 00:13:25.000
wanted to be accepted, but I was always isolated

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.419
and like, okay. And that's when my fantasies

00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:30.159
and my dreams really, really took over. You know?

00:13:30.779 --> 00:13:34.139
And you were pulled and called to the stuff that

00:13:34.139 --> 00:13:35.740
you ultimately ended up doing, right? Because

00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:37.779
Memory Serves, one of the things you talked about

00:13:37.779 --> 00:13:40.240
was finding kind of private times and even a

00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.679
closet to sing. And you may, and if Memory Serves

00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:45.539
too, you may have even learned some dances. I

00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:47.580
don't know if it was from Michael Jackson. But

00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:50.519
yeah, tell us about that. So, you know, in your,

00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.639
you know, being called to something or kind of

00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.350
where your destiny was taking you. Talk us through

00:13:56.350 --> 00:13:59.169
how that started to evolve with you feeling drawn

00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.370
to the arts and the singing and dancing. Well,

00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:03.649
I'm grateful that as a family, we would watch

00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:06.710
television. We listened to the radio together.

00:14:06.950 --> 00:14:09.669
When we all cleaned the house, we had the radio

00:14:09.669 --> 00:14:12.049
blasting. It was a station that played all kinds

00:14:12.049 --> 00:14:15.809
of music. Pop, rock, jazz, country. Of course,

00:14:15.809 --> 00:14:18.769
the Motown sound. Everything, which influences

00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:22.049
my singing to this day. There was that. We also

00:14:22.049 --> 00:14:25.250
watched TV. And TV was like my best friend. when

00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:26.970
i didn't have friends to play with i would watch

00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:30.389
my favorite shows gilligan's island um a whole

00:14:30.389 --> 00:14:33.169
all day after school stuff but at night we would

00:14:33.169 --> 00:14:37.309
watch variety shows which really sort of saved

00:14:37.309 --> 00:14:39.269
my life because i got to see my favorite performers

00:14:39.269 --> 00:14:42.929
and then i could see them be interviewed after

00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:45.210
they performed and see that they spoke so well

00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:46.909
that they were intelligent they were not just

00:14:46.909 --> 00:14:49.429
performers they were they seemed to be well -rounded

00:14:49.429 --> 00:14:51.909
people and i thought i want to be like that so

00:14:51.909 --> 00:14:54.639
they became my first role model And I don't know

00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.620
any young Black boy during the 60s who didn't

00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:00.360
want to be Michael Jackson or one of the Jackson

00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.940
5. So we would watch, say we watched the Ed Sullivan

00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:06.899
show, and the Jackson 5 would be on there, and

00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:10.279
I could pick up choreography really easily because

00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:12.759
I was so hungry for it. And I would go to the

00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:14.740
storage closet, which was the only place I had

00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:16.919
to myself, and I'd put on these big concerts

00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:19.899
and pretend I was Michael Jackson and my father

00:15:19.899 --> 00:15:23.539
cleaned buildings for a living. This big thing

00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:27.220
called a buffer. The big circular thing with

00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:29.240
the smaller circle in the middle. It's the perfect

00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.320
platform. Top of that was my stage. I would take

00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.740
the cord and that was my microphone. And I would

00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:37.000
step down and sing to the girls in the audience

00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.480
all in silence. I didn't know that I could sing.

00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.200
When I did start to sing, it wasn't because I

00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.840
knew I sounded good. I love the sensation of

00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.779
singing. I love how it made me feel. So what

00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.940
started off as a fantasy. eventually became what

00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:56.399
I was doing for a living. So again, I'm grateful

00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.340
that instead of going to fighting against the

00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:00.820
grain and going, no, I'm going to be accepted

00:16:00.820 --> 00:16:03.759
by the bad kids because I so desperately want

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:08.059
to be a part of them, I'm going to honor my body,

00:16:08.139 --> 00:16:10.919
honor my mind, and take that energy elsewhere.

00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.519
And that's where TV and radio and the arts really

00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:17.500
came into play and really helped to save me.

00:16:18.599 --> 00:16:21.279
Yeah. What was the inflection point for you or

00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.320
kind of the experience or experiences that helped

00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:27.039
bring that to life? So you're starting to feel

00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.419
this and you're doing it, but you're doing it

00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:30.299
in silence and you're not actually out loud.

00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:33.559
When did that finally that that flip that switch

00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:35.759
turn on where it's like, oh, I actually can do

00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:38.220
this. I actually can sing. I actually could perform.

00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.740
Oh, man, I joined the church choir and I was

00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:44.159
so terrified of being in front of anybody. I

00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.620
mean, really, I. When I talk about it, I feel

00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:50.500
those feelings again of like, oh, my God, I can't

00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:52.799
imagine ever sharing this with anybody because

00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.960
it was my secret. But I used to usher it at my

00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:58.700
church, and I would kind of scope the choir out

00:16:58.700 --> 00:17:01.460
and see if it was safe, and then I found out

00:17:01.460 --> 00:17:03.659
that they would take anybody. We didn't have

00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:05.819
to audition. I thought, oh, wow, I can finally

00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.119
sing with other people. So I joined the choir,

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.420
and after I joined, they were like, well, you

00:17:10.420 --> 00:17:12.480
know, at some point, everybody has to do a solo.

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:15.920
I was like, I'll worry about that later. They

00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:17.759
go around the whole choir. They get to me, and

00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.319
I'm like, I'll pass. I'm good. They come back

00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.519
around again. They're like, Alton, you have to

00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.640
do this. And I was like, I can't. They were like,

00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:32.940
you have to. And I mean, the choir teacher was

00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:36.480
so patient with me. I mean, I refused to sing

00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:39.460
in front of anybody. I would wait till everybody

00:17:39.460 --> 00:17:45.250
left and sing with just her. Eventually, it went

00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:47.670
from a whisper to singing louder and singing

00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:50.450
louder. She goes, now you got to sing with the

00:17:50.450 --> 00:17:53.210
choir because I sang the lead and they backed

00:17:53.210 --> 00:17:56.069
me up. And I remember that day came. And at this

00:17:56.069 --> 00:17:57.730
point, everybody in the choir is like, really,

00:17:57.789 --> 00:18:00.630
dude? Because nobody can understand how you feel.

00:18:00.809 --> 00:18:03.490
But they were like, what's the big deal? It was

00:18:03.490 --> 00:18:06.670
a huge deal to me. Because at that point, I was

00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:08.849
being teased and bullied about so many things

00:18:08.849 --> 00:18:11.930
in my young life. I thought, if my secret gets

00:18:11.930 --> 00:18:14.240
out and I'm... teased about this, I don't know

00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.400
what I'll do. I might break, you know? And I

00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:19.460
remember, you know, finally kind of whispering

00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:21.960
through it, and they were like, really? We waited

00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.380
for this? And I was like, okay. But then came

00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:28.900
the Sunday morning. I remember, like, not sleeping

00:18:28.900 --> 00:18:30.700
the night before, thinking, how am I going to

00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:33.180
listen to all these people? I don't know. I kind

00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:36.420
of trust the choir at this point. And I got up

00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:38.380
there, and they called my name, and I remember

00:18:38.380 --> 00:18:40.880
just looking at the ceiling, and, you know, kind

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.170
of, like, sort of closing my eyes. doing the

00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:45.670
best I could. And it was over. There were some

00:18:45.670 --> 00:18:48.369
amens. There were some pause. And a woman that

00:18:48.369 --> 00:18:51.970
I really trusted who led the children ushers

00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:54.430
came up to me with this look on her face, Ryan.

00:18:54.589 --> 00:18:57.690
Like, she was like, out and wild. I was like,

00:18:57.730 --> 00:19:01.170
what? Did I not do well? She was like, your voice.

00:19:01.869 --> 00:19:03.730
The quality of your voice. I didn't know what

00:19:03.730 --> 00:19:05.569
she was talking about, but she was like, you've

00:19:05.569 --> 00:19:08.529
got something special. I was like, really? And

00:19:08.529 --> 00:19:10.990
that was what I needed. Like, one person that

00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:14.359
I trusted. And the look on her face, the way

00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:17.380
she responded to my voice made me go, wow, like

00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:19.940
this thing I love might actually love me as well.

00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:24.920
And then the journey became, how do I get out

00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:27.799
of the way of it? How do I not go over my fear?

00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:29.960
There's no going over. How do I work through

00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.319
this fear and get to the other side and find

00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.680
the gift that this is? And it's just a practice,

00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:39.279
you know, humming around the house, humming around

00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:41.519
friends and going, okay, I got to release the

00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.500
shame. And eventually, the next time I did a

00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:48.299
solo, I was ready. And then at that point, I

00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:51.539
was in junior high. And they always needed, you

00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:53.140
know, you do a spring festival and a winter festival.

00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.240
You know, the choir would do some stuff. And

00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.759
it was always female solo and male solo. And

00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.259
the male soloist was a year older than me. So

00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:03.559
in my last year of junior high, they needed a

00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:05.940
guy. And I was like, I think I might be able

00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:08.740
to do this. So I auditioned. But I kind of went

00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:10.259
through the same process because now I'm with

00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:12.119
junior high. It's a whole other thing. I'm like.

00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:13.579
I went through the whole thing of, like, you

00:20:13.579 --> 00:20:14.960
know, whispering in her ear and, like, waiting

00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:18.099
until the class dismissed and having to sing

00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:21.039
in front of the whole class. And then the night

00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.579
came, and I was like, okay, do it. It's now or

00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:28.779
never. And then it was on from there. So, I mean,

00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:31.380
I just love this journey that you had. And there's

00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:32.700
a couple of things that I heard in there that

00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:34.579
I think are really impactful. And one of those

00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:38.180
is I think the role of, you know, maybe it's

00:20:38.180 --> 00:20:40.019
a mentor. Maybe it's just, you know, somebody

00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:41.940
that you do have some level of trust with that

00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:44.500
shows kindness and encouragement. Yes, absolutely.

00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:47.599
And how impactful that can be. And when you think

00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.019
about that. Are there any other moments you think

00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:54.700
about where the care and kind of what I would

00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:56.980
call deep kindness that somebody showed you help

00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:00.000
you feel empowered to kind of find that destiny

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.480
of yours? Oh, God, in so many ways. I mean, really,

00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.680
teachers. Teachers are my hero. I mean, really,

00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:07.640
teachers really. I mean, there's certain things

00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.700
that I did on my own. I had to tap into my courage

00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:14.160
and go forth. But I had. teachers to guide me,

00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.720
teachers to point me out and go, no, you sit

00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:18.640
over here. You're different than the other kids,

00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:21.660
which let me know that I was smarter than I realized.

00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:26.900
And even in terms of talent, I would audition

00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:28.960
for some things and then somebody would go, no,

00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:30.700
no, no. I remember that because I really wanted

00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.259
to be a dancer. I love movement. And I would

00:21:33.259 --> 00:21:35.059
go to my dance calls and they'd hear me sing

00:21:35.059 --> 00:21:38.160
and go, no, no, you're over here with the singers.

00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:42.039
You can do both, but not many people can do both

00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.900
well. So these were all people who became mentors

00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.700
and validation. Somebody who could see things

00:21:48.700 --> 00:21:51.019
in me that I couldn't see myself. That's very,

00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:54.019
very important for anyone to have, for everyone

00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:56.599
to have someone who sees the potential that they

00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.500
can't quite see themselves. Yeah, for sure. You

00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:01.799
know, and when you're kind of going through these

00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.539
experiences growing up where you did in Cincinnati

00:22:04.539 --> 00:22:07.640
and being bullied, what would you, when you think

00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:09.819
back on that, what do you think is like the hardest?

00:22:10.879 --> 00:22:13.519
Trial that you faced during that time. What was

00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:15.440
the most difficult thing that you had to overcome?

00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.319
Okay, are we going to go there? Let's let's go

00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.339
there. Let's go there. We want to get deep. We

00:22:22.339 --> 00:22:24.960
want to get a lot of the hardest thing was dealing

00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.779
with sexual abuse as a kid. Was being taken advantage

00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:33.880
of because I was such a. I mean, I was pure love

00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.440
as a kid. I was naive. And no matter what happened

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.539
to me, I always saw the bright side. I was born

00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:43.079
with an optimism that as an adult, I've learned

00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.660
to kind of like balance with realism, but still

00:22:46.660 --> 00:22:51.759
keep my positive attitude. That was tough when

00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.220
those things happened and I couldn't tell anyone

00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:57.500
because that made me become an adult faster than

00:22:57.500 --> 00:23:00.220
I needed to. And to have that introduced to me.

00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:03.690
And to not be able to have my own journey with

00:23:03.690 --> 00:23:06.309
that and have it forced upon me, you know, was

00:23:06.309 --> 00:23:08.269
not a cool thing. And then dealing with the secret

00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:10.730
of not being able to tell anyone. And also knowing

00:23:10.730 --> 00:23:14.750
that if I told any adult that, even as a kid,

00:23:14.789 --> 00:23:17.970
before I had the words to describe things, I

00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:21.190
knew that the ripple effect would be amazing

00:23:21.190 --> 00:23:24.849
in a not the best way. So I kept it to myself.

00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:29.470
And again, I believe that I was able to channel

00:23:29.470 --> 00:23:32.990
that into my heart. into my passion um and it's

00:23:32.990 --> 00:23:34.829
something as actors as creative people we get

00:23:34.829 --> 00:23:37.849
to do we get to like work out our stuff and share

00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:39.910
at the same time if we choose to perceive it

00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:43.509
that way yeah well i mean when i when i asked

00:23:43.509 --> 00:23:46.170
that question i i didn't have any idea that was

00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:48.509
actually the case and i'm so first off i'm so

00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:51.609
sorry um that that was something you had to experience

00:23:51.609 --> 00:23:57.529
um and um you know sorry i'm almost have to take

00:23:57.529 --> 00:24:01.130
a moment i just that is such a Oh, it's just

00:24:01.130 --> 00:24:04.349
such a tough thing for somebody to have to experience

00:24:04.349 --> 00:24:07.869
and that you had to go through. What got you

00:24:07.869 --> 00:24:16.470
through that? Faith. You know, a faith that I

00:24:16.470 --> 00:24:19.089
feel like I was just kind of born with. I really

00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:22.130
feel like I was born with a positive attitude.

00:24:22.650 --> 00:24:25.029
And even as an adult, you know, through the help

00:24:25.029 --> 00:24:27.630
of therapy and meditation, I've been able to

00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:29.849
forgive those people because I'm thinking, You

00:24:29.849 --> 00:24:32.849
know, I had this done to me by other kids as

00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:35.970
well as adults. It's like somebody did it to

00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:41.269
them. You know, and it's like so that I'm grateful

00:24:41.269 --> 00:24:43.450
that I was able to work through my stuff and

00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:46.769
then get to the other side of the anger and resentment

00:24:46.769 --> 00:24:51.210
and find compassion. You know, forgiveness came

00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:53.910
at the end of that and then compassion, which

00:24:53.910 --> 00:24:56.390
was like a gift that I didn't expect to go. Oh,

00:24:56.430 --> 00:24:59.559
wow. It didn't do that to me because. who I am.

00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.279
They did it because of who they are. And then

00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.539
beyond that was like, I wonder if someone did

00:25:05.539 --> 00:25:08.880
that to them. Which is like real forgiveness.

00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:13.640
Yeah. And I'm the kind of person who wants to

00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:15.640
squeeze as much out of life as I possibly can.

00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:17.559
I'm one of those who if there's a problem comes

00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:19.440
up, I'm going to deal with it and I want to get

00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:24.599
back to the good times ASAP. Well, I mean, I

00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.779
thank you for your courage to share that, your

00:25:27.779 --> 00:25:30.279
vulnerability in sharing that. You know, it's

00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.960
my hope. Whenever on this podcast we talk to

00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:34.460
people who've gone through really hard things,

00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:36.940
it's my hope that somebody that's listening,

00:25:37.059 --> 00:25:40.720
that's going through a hard season, can receive

00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:42.839
kind of that strength from somebody else who's

00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.559
gone through it and know that there's light at

00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:47.200
the end of that really dark tunnel. Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:50.890
I mean, if nothing else. That little painfully

00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:53.410
shy kid who was abused and teased and bullied

00:25:53.410 --> 00:25:58.150
became the king. You know, and that's one of

00:25:58.150 --> 00:26:00.309
the things I love about Lion King is that, you

00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:03.410
know, we're all Scar, we're all Mufasa, we're

00:26:03.410 --> 00:26:05.549
all Simba. It's all about having to deal with

00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:08.609
different parts of yourself. And we get to define

00:26:08.609 --> 00:26:11.369
who we are. Things happen to us, but we get the

00:26:11.369 --> 00:26:13.809
ultimate decision. Am I going to stay stuck in

00:26:13.809 --> 00:26:17.519
this trauma or am I going to go through it? get

00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.859
to the other side and see what what life is beyond

00:26:19.859 --> 00:26:22.559
it that's a choice that we all get to make if

00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:27.799
we choose to do so yeah you know it it kind of

00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:30.880
takes me to and i hope that this isn't um in

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.279
any way um insensitive to that experience that

00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:36.640
you just had because i don't want to compare

00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:37.900
anything to it because nothing can compare to

00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:40.940
it but if we're taking lessons from the lion

00:26:40.940 --> 00:26:44.500
king what it reminds me of is kind of where i

00:26:44.500 --> 00:26:47.339
was actually going to go next which is the experiences

00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:49.539
of Simba, right? Where, you know, at the beginning

00:26:49.539 --> 00:26:51.380
of the show, I mean, Simba's this free loving

00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:54.480
kid who just can't wait to be king, you know,

00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.839
and have a great time with his buddies. And he's,

00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.319
you know, goofing off in this elephant graveyard

00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.680
and all these things. And then his dad dies and

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:08.380
he believes it's his fault. Even though it wasn't.

00:27:08.380 --> 00:27:09.720
Of course, we all know the story, right? It was

00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:11.400
Scar. It wasn't his fault at all, but he believes

00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:15.279
it was. And Scar has tricked him, has manipulated

00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.400
him to think in it. And then Scar says, run away,

00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:23.319
Simba. Run away and never return. And I wonder,

00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:25.220
you know, is that sometimes what we experience

00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:28.619
when we have shame and guilt and it's not actually

00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.200
our fault? And yet we do and we feel like we

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.720
have to run away. Was there any part of that

00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.160
that you experienced in that difficult time?

00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:43.019
The only running away I did was, I mean, I did

00:27:43.019 --> 00:27:46.140
become, like my mother talks about, she remembers,

00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:48.259
you know, like me going from being happy -go

00:27:48.259 --> 00:27:50.680
-lucky and then suddenly I was very sad. When

00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.500
I look at pictures of me as a kid, at a certain

00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:56.799
point, I'm not smiling. I do look kind of like

00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.480
detached because I was keeping a secret. I couldn't

00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.720
be fully who I was. And it's sort of like when

00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:05.900
it happens with Simba, suddenly there's a cut,

00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.599
there's a break in your life. Yes. And there's

00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:14.119
a before the event and an after. And we all have

00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:15.799
those definite moments because we've all experienced

00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.079
trauma. We all have that moment when it's like,

00:28:18.099 --> 00:28:22.059
oh, I am no longer the child I used to be, the

00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:24.339
teenager I used to be, the adult I used to be

00:28:24.339 --> 00:28:28.140
because of this kind of trauma. But I feel like,

00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:31.299
and I only speak for myself, that life is always

00:28:31.299 --> 00:28:35.319
trying to push me toward light. So there are

00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:38.500
different signs that I receive over the years

00:28:38.500 --> 00:28:40.400
of like, now might be a time to deal with that.

00:28:40.819 --> 00:28:44.079
Now might be a time to have an even brighter

00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.059
life. I know things are great right now, but

00:28:46.059 --> 00:28:48.119
they could actually be better if you go back

00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.559
and deal with your personal stuff. Because material

00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:52.859
things, anything outside of us, that's one thing.

00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.640
And I think it's really easy to get defined by

00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:00.640
the things outside of us. But the real beauty,

00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.539
the real wealth is inner peace. and inner knowledge

00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:06.500
so i feel like life is always trying to get us

00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:08.119
to go okay this is great you've done all of this

00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:10.140
you've got this blah blah but like how are you

00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:14.039
and that's something that i've always wanted

00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:17.640
like great yeah well it actually happened i never

00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.680
forget when when i was doing the saigon my first

00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.859
broadway show understudying hinton battle the

00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:26.079
great hinton battle um who won his third tony

00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.799
award playing john in the saigon i was his understudy

00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:32.059
after he won the tony uh you do eight shows a

00:29:32.059 --> 00:29:34.210
week on broadway After he won the Tony, he went

00:29:34.210 --> 00:29:36.049
down to doing six, and they gave me two of his

00:29:36.049 --> 00:29:38.390
shows. He left after the first year, and then

00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:40.170
I took over the role. And I remember thinking,

00:29:40.329 --> 00:29:42.849
okay, great. Now things are going to finally

00:29:42.849 --> 00:29:45.009
be great. Because at that point, I was kind of

00:29:45.009 --> 00:29:48.730
running, you know, using the arts, using success

00:29:48.730 --> 00:29:52.109
as sort of like a pill to deal with my past.

00:29:52.589 --> 00:29:54.890
I never forget the day after I had breakfast

00:29:54.890 --> 00:29:56.930
with a group of friends to kind of celebrate.

00:29:57.309 --> 00:29:59.250
You take them over the role, and I was like,

00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:00.589
you know, like, what's wrong with you? I was

00:30:00.589 --> 00:30:02.940
like, I don't. I understand. They're like, what's

00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:04.920
up? I said, when are things going to finally

00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:07.740
be okay? I thought that once, you know, getting

00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:10.220
this incredible Broadway show, I thought that

00:30:10.220 --> 00:30:13.680
would do it. Getting two shows a week of Hinton's,

00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:14.940
I thought it would do it. Now I'm taking over

00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:16.819
the role. What is it going to take? That's when

00:30:16.819 --> 00:30:18.259
her friend said, you might want to think about

00:30:18.259 --> 00:30:21.740
therapy. And I thought, okay. And that's when

00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:24.319
I really started to go, okay. It's not about

00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:27.619
what my life looks like. It's about how I feel.

00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:33.059
The real wealth is knowing yourself. So I feel

00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:36.880
like that's a call that we all get. And the more

00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.940
successful you become, in some ways, the easier

00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:44.460
it is to use them as distractions, to pull away

00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:47.579
from yourself, to be defied by those. But I want

00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:50.299
both. I want the success, but I also want to

00:30:50.299 --> 00:30:52.700
be present for it. I don't want to be using this

00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:54.680
as an excuse for that. I want to go, no, I'm

00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:57.119
present so I can enjoy the success. I can enjoy

00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.119
this trip. I can enjoy this concert and not be

00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:05.240
running away from anything. And I think so many

00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:10.019
times in our culture, we see like it is some

00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:11.839
destination that we're going for and that's going

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.240
to be what brings it. And I think to some degree,

00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:16.539
it's sports that does it, right? And I love sports.

00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:19.059
I enjoy sports really, but it's... You got to

00:31:19.059 --> 00:31:20.640
win the championship. And when you win the championship,

00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:22.759
it is the most elation you could ever have. And

00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:24.559
so that's what you think of, like, oh, it's about

00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:26.940
the championship. And in life, it's just not,

00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.259
right? In life, it's what are we doing along

00:31:29.259 --> 00:31:32.880
the path to grow, to be who we really are, right?

00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.759
To find our destiny like you did, to find what

00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:39.180
brings that joy to us during the process, in

00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:42.720
the process of becoming, not just the end goal.

00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:44.380
Because there is no there. I mean, I'm in New

00:31:44.380 --> 00:31:46.930
York City, right? The next one. The city was

00:31:46.930 --> 00:31:49.450
on fire that weekend. Oh, my God. And it's like,

00:31:49.470 --> 00:31:51.789
then people go back to their regular lives because

00:31:51.789 --> 00:31:55.170
the celebrations die down and you're left with

00:31:55.170 --> 00:31:59.650
you. We are the constant in our lives. You know,

00:31:59.690 --> 00:32:01.849
things come and go, championships, but, like,

00:32:01.849 --> 00:32:07.509
we are the 24 -7 with ourselves. And that's the

00:32:07.509 --> 00:32:11.039
ultimate. That's the ultimate. Yeah. absolutely

00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:12.980
and you know one of the things going back to

00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:15.700
kind of your role in this saigon in in your book

00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:17.839
one of the things you mentioned was when that

00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.700
kind of happened you had some people i believe

00:32:21.700 --> 00:32:23.960
this was the story you had some people some friends

00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:25.960
that maybe during the celebration were a little

00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:27.960
bit negative and kind of warning you like yeah

00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:31.000
you know watch your back or hey you know it's

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.680
gonna be coming for you now and and i think at

00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.279
that time you you may have had a mentor who couldn't

00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:37.960
give you the advice of like don't listen to the

00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.009
projections of others because that's where that

00:32:41.009 --> 00:32:43.150
negativity comes from yeah that's a huge thing

00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:47.450
that i share with all of my friends the young

00:32:47.450 --> 00:32:50.150
kids that i'm kind of mentoring and my adult

00:32:50.150 --> 00:32:53.970
friends like do not allow yourself to have other

00:32:53.970 --> 00:32:57.009
people's issues projected onto you and it's really

00:32:57.009 --> 00:32:59.769
tricky with artists because we're naturally sensitive

00:32:59.769 --> 00:33:03.950
um and we're always seeking some kind of validation

00:33:03.950 --> 00:33:05.890
as part of the job it's part of like did you

00:33:05.890 --> 00:33:07.849
like it how did i sound would you you know that

00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:10.339
whole thing Which, again, is why I think learning

00:33:10.339 --> 00:33:12.940
to validate yourself is the ultimate, because

00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:14.640
then when somebody compliments you, you can just

00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:18.200
go, thank you. Not with anything. But yeah, at

00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.680
this party, I was moving from Chicago to New

00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:25.119
York City to start rehearsals for Miss Saigon,

00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:27.319
the original company, which was already hit before

00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:29.539
it opened. There was a lot of controversy surrounding

00:33:29.539 --> 00:33:32.160
it with the casting, so it drove the box office

00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:36.200
to a $10 million advance, which in 1991 was huge

00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.380
and broke all kinds of records. I'm at my party,

00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.960
and some friends, these weren't my friends, clearly

00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.460
some of my friends brought some guests, and they

00:33:46.460 --> 00:33:47.859
were like, well, you know, just be careful in

00:33:47.859 --> 00:33:49.740
New York, you know, watch out for this, watch

00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:51.180
out for that, watch out for this, watch out for

00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:54.000
that. I remember, like, someone, my mentor was

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.839
at the party, he was like, what's wrong with

00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:58.400
you? I was like, you know, I'm excited, like,

00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:00.140
man, I keep, people keep telling me, like, to

00:34:00.140 --> 00:34:02.720
be scared and, you know, not to wear this because

00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.539
somebody will snatch the gold chain off your

00:34:04.539 --> 00:34:07.440
neck, and he was like, Alton? You're not that

00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:10.400
kind of a person. You're a positive person. You're

00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.099
a positive thinker. You look for the positive

00:34:12.099 --> 00:34:14.420
things in life. At the same time, you're smart.

00:34:14.659 --> 00:34:17.199
That will not be your experience. So don't take

00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:19.420
that on. And that was just what I needed to hear.

00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:23.300
Like, oh, yeah, I'm not like them. This is their

00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:28.300
own stuff. But up until then, I was really like,

00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:30.679
am I going to go to New York, like, more terrified

00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.639
than excited? But again, in terms of mentoring,

00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.369
your question earlier. Having validation when

00:34:37.369 --> 00:34:40.449
you trust is priceless. It changed everything

00:34:40.449 --> 00:34:44.369
for me. Yeah. How do you differentiate just for

00:34:44.369 --> 00:34:46.530
you in your life? And maybe this would be advice

00:34:46.530 --> 00:34:47.809
that we're giving to somebody else. How would

00:34:47.809 --> 00:34:50.309
you differentiate between... those who are giving

00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:54.190
you advice that's helpful, right? Because sometimes

00:34:54.190 --> 00:34:55.949
it's helpful to be aware of certain things that

00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:59.329
happen and the stuff that's just negativity that's

00:34:59.329 --> 00:35:02.230
their own projections on you that you shouldn't

00:35:02.230 --> 00:35:03.929
listen to. How do you differentiate between those

00:35:03.929 --> 00:35:08.289
things? Always consider the source. Who's saying

00:35:08.289 --> 00:35:11.769
this? Because when I was younger, somebody would

00:35:11.769 --> 00:35:14.030
say these kind of things to me and I'd get all

00:35:14.030 --> 00:35:16.590
worked up and go, I don't respect this person.

00:35:17.449 --> 00:35:20.860
I don't even know this person. But it triggers

00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:23.039
something in me, but then I go, oh, wait a minute.

00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:26.500
They're trying to project their things onto me,

00:35:26.539 --> 00:35:28.719
and I have a choice to accept it or not. I don't

00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:31.840
accept it. So now, and it takes practice, but

00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:34.360
now I've practiced so much in my life that my

00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:36.579
instincts kick in and I go, oh, I know what this

00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:40.179
is. I know how to excuse myself. Like, I'm not

00:35:40.179 --> 00:35:42.239
going to be an audience for things that you need

00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.000
to work on on your own. And I'm not your friend.

00:35:46.049 --> 00:35:48.429
to, to, for you to dump those things on. So I've

00:35:48.429 --> 00:35:50.250
learned to find a nice tactful way to go, oh,

00:35:50.269 --> 00:35:53.230
no, to protect my energy, to set boundaries around

00:35:53.230 --> 00:35:57.570
my positivity. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

00:35:57.710 --> 00:35:59.570
You know, one of the things, too, talking about

00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:00.909
your positivity, one of the things I was struck

00:36:00.909 --> 00:36:04.349
in, in your book was, I think there was a time,

00:36:04.429 --> 00:36:05.650
and I don't remember if it was in New York or

00:36:05.650 --> 00:36:08.429
somewhere else, but that you in essence were

00:36:08.429 --> 00:36:11.130
were robbed or had your your wallet and stuff

00:36:11.130 --> 00:36:13.969
stolen like three times in this really short

00:36:13.969 --> 00:36:16.070
period of time right can you share that with

00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:18.769
us dude it was like my first time in chicago

00:36:18.769 --> 00:36:22.809
at on an agent who wanted me i was doing a tour

00:36:22.809 --> 00:36:25.409
of dream girls and he we were playing in new

00:36:25.409 --> 00:36:29.150
haven which is not far from new york and um the

00:36:29.150 --> 00:36:31.969
female lead the show her agent was she was from

00:36:31.969 --> 00:36:33.909
new york and her agent came up to see us and

00:36:33.909 --> 00:36:35.590
was like hey i think you're talented i would

00:36:35.590 --> 00:36:37.829
love to represent you. And I said, I'm not moving

00:36:37.829 --> 00:36:40.349
to New York without a job. Chicago is a great

00:36:40.349 --> 00:36:42.349
theater town. Whether you're working or not,

00:36:42.389 --> 00:36:43.989
it's still the Midwest, so it's still affordable.

00:36:44.190 --> 00:36:46.590
And it was great regional theater happening there.

00:36:47.090 --> 00:36:49.309
And he said, I said, but if you submit me for

00:36:49.309 --> 00:36:51.530
things, I will come to New York to audition.

00:36:52.010 --> 00:36:55.289
So the first time I took the Greyhound and stopped

00:36:55.289 --> 00:36:57.429
in Cleveland where one of my sisters lived at

00:36:57.429 --> 00:37:01.170
the time. And she brought me a meal and I'm like,

00:37:01.190 --> 00:37:03.110
I got to watch the time. I can't miss this bus.

00:37:03.190 --> 00:37:04.909
And she's talking and talking and talking. And

00:37:04.909 --> 00:37:07.349
we got. Wrapped up, next thing I know, I missed

00:37:07.349 --> 00:37:10.090
the bus. So all of my friends were on the bus.

00:37:10.150 --> 00:37:12.449
So I wanted to join the audition in the clothes

00:37:12.449 --> 00:37:17.809
I had. Second time, I took the train. I was sleeping

00:37:17.809 --> 00:37:21.630
and somebody stole my bag. So for Miss Saigon,

00:37:21.690 --> 00:37:23.849
I thought, I'm going to scrape some money together

00:37:23.849 --> 00:37:26.550
and I'm going to fly. I'm not taking any chances.

00:37:27.070 --> 00:37:30.050
And it's really kind of magical because I was

00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:33.659
doing a show in... And I was in the ensemble

00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:35.739
of a show in Chicago at the time, way out in

00:37:35.739 --> 00:37:39.159
the burbs. And we had two days, Monday and Tuesday.

00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:41.760
So my audition was Monday afternoon. I flew in

00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.000
Monday morning, went to the audition that afternoon.

00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:49.380
And they said, hey, your agent said that you're

00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:51.380
supposed to be flying back to Chicago tonight,

00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.659
but we want you to come to the dance call. Can

00:37:53.659 --> 00:37:55.059
you change your plans? I was like, absolutely.

00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:59.000
So I got on the phone, changed my flight, went

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.909
to the dance call that evening. and then flew

00:38:02.909 --> 00:38:07.010
back to Chicago. And it was kind of wild because

00:38:07.010 --> 00:38:09.369
because of the controversy with Miss Saigon,

00:38:09.590 --> 00:38:11.949
they were threatening to cancel it because the

00:38:11.949 --> 00:38:14.489
actors' union didn't like certain parts of it.

00:38:14.750 --> 00:38:18.449
And this all drove the box office up. And I remember,

00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:21.170
again, another projection. And one of the guys

00:38:21.170 --> 00:38:23.650
I met at the dance call was like, because I'm

00:38:23.650 --> 00:38:26.230
excited, like, oh, my God, we made it down because

00:38:26.230 --> 00:38:29.860
it went from 50 guys to 20. And I was like, man,

00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:31.440
this is so exciting. He's like, yeah, well, don't

00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.619
get too excited. This is my fourth dance call,

00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:36.559
and there's no guarantee that it's even going

00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:38.840
to happen. And I was like, wonk, wonk, wonk.

00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:41.519
I was like, oh, well. So I came back to Chicago

00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:43.559
like, okay, well, who knows if it's even going

00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:46.420
to happen. And I just kind of let it go, which

00:38:46.420 --> 00:38:49.920
is hard to do. And then that same night, I got

00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.480
the call, and I booked it, and I will be understudying

00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.960
one of my heroes into battle. And looking back

00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:58.920
on it, I see... They were always tested, right?

00:38:59.260 --> 00:39:01.119
So that first time when my stuff was stolen,

00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:04.340
am I still passionate? Do I still want to do

00:39:04.340 --> 00:39:07.280
this? Am I willing to try this again? Okay, let

00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.960
me try the train this time. Happened with the

00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:14.059
train. Okay, I get another call. Hmm. Is this

00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:16.400
going to stop me? No, I want this. And this is

00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:19.639
just what I have to do to get it done. I flew.

00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:23.139
So when the reward came, I was able to go, thank

00:39:23.139 --> 00:39:27.340
goodness I stayed present for myself. For my

00:39:27.340 --> 00:39:31.800
passion. I passed the test. And the result was

00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:34.699
beyond my wildest dream. I mean, going from the

00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:37.440
ensemble in the theater in the suburbs of Chicago

00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:40.039
to suddenly I'm going to be understudying my

00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:42.840
hero in the biggest Broadway show at the time.

00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:46.039
Those kind of leaves can only happen if you keep

00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:49.739
showing up for yourself. And have boundaries

00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:53.360
around other people's opinions. Yeah. And then

00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:55.980
when those opportunities do come, That you've

00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.719
prepared yourself. Exactly. That you can take

00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.539
advantage of. Absolutely. Because sometimes,

00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:02.519
you know, sometimes we miss those because we're

00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:04.880
just, we're not prepared. We're distracted. We

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.579
let other people's negativity bog us down. And

00:40:07.579 --> 00:40:09.199
then suddenly this great opportunity passes us

00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:11.659
by and we don't even realize it. And also, whatever

00:40:11.659 --> 00:40:13.199
your passion is, nobody's going to understand

00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.860
it but you. You can explain it to the person

00:40:15.860 --> 00:40:19.079
you love the most, but it's for you. It's specifically

00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:21.920
for you. So I would say, you know, I learned

00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:23.739
early. Instead of trying to prove it to you,

00:40:23.780 --> 00:40:26.480
let me just show you. I'm not going to show you

00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:28.139
because of you. I'm going to show you because

00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:32.179
of me. Before we jump back in, can I ask you

00:40:32.179 --> 00:40:34.599
a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey

00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:38.119
so far, will you like, rate, and subscribe to

00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:40.840
our show? It helps us reach more people like

00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:44.280
you. We can design and create and build the most

00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.139
wonderful place in the world, but it takes people

00:40:47.139 --> 00:40:51.159
to make the dream a reality. One of the things

00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:55.550
that you said in your book is that passion has

00:40:55.550 --> 00:40:58.829
to be harnessed correctly um or it could lead

00:40:58.829 --> 00:41:01.809
to burnout yeah and so when we think about that

00:41:01.809 --> 00:41:04.090
you know obviously we started out this this this

00:41:04.090 --> 00:41:06.110
podcast and one of the things that you're maybe

00:41:06.110 --> 00:41:08.730
most famous for is performing more than 4 000

00:41:08.730 --> 00:41:13.349
times as mufasa which is just so you know exactly

00:41:13.349 --> 00:41:15.769
the number i love this like it's so many and

00:41:15.769 --> 00:41:18.579
so you know one of the things that I was thinking

00:41:18.579 --> 00:41:21.679
about when it comes to this is some work by Dr.

00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:23.960
Angela Duckworth. She wrote a book called Grit,

00:41:23.980 --> 00:41:26.579
which I just love. She talked about the difference

00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:28.420
between high performers or high achievers, and

00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:30.440
she categorizes it as those that have grit, which

00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:32.739
is the power of passion plus perseverance. And

00:41:32.739 --> 00:41:35.559
so I think about this idea of like passion, but

00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:37.480
it could lead to burnout. One of the things she

00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:41.460
said is enthusiasm is common. Endurance is rare.

00:41:42.099 --> 00:41:44.599
So for you, like, take us through, like, first

00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.079
off, how did you get to that point where You

00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:49.039
were in the position to be able to get that role

00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.820
as the king, as Mufasa. Then also that you didn't

00:41:52.820 --> 00:41:56.619
get burned out with 4 ,308. Is that what we said?

00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:59.360
Yeah. My goodness. Because burnout could come

00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.739
so easily with that many performances. Well,

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:04.940
there's a couple of things that came into play

00:42:04.940 --> 00:42:10.360
with that. I love theater. I loved the validation

00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:14.599
that I got doing my job consistently well. I

00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:18.309
love the benefits. You know, the status, the

00:42:18.309 --> 00:42:20.090
paycheck, all those wonderful things, the beautiful

00:42:20.090 --> 00:42:23.309
life I was able to build. But then beyond that,

00:42:23.570 --> 00:42:25.190
you know, getting back to what we were talking

00:42:25.190 --> 00:42:27.349
about earlier about, like, not letting myself

00:42:27.349 --> 00:42:29.530
be solely defined by the things outside of me.

00:42:30.869 --> 00:42:33.130
In the back of my mind was like, what kind of

00:42:33.130 --> 00:42:36.610
life do I have outside of this? And that's what

00:42:36.610 --> 00:42:39.130
was always knocking at the door. I love showing

00:42:39.130 --> 00:42:40.989
up on time and doing well, blah, blah, blah.

00:42:41.050 --> 00:42:42.710
And that feeling of, I guess I did another great

00:42:42.710 --> 00:42:45.750
show. Then at a certain point, I realized. It's

00:42:45.750 --> 00:42:49.570
not realistic to work at this kind of pace without

00:42:49.570 --> 00:42:53.969
balance. And slowly but surely, knocking on the

00:42:53.969 --> 00:42:55.889
door was like, okay, what else do you want to

00:42:55.889 --> 00:42:58.489
do? What else do you consist of? More than this,

00:42:58.750 --> 00:43:01.190
you know, there's other kinds, there's life still

00:43:01.190 --> 00:43:03.610
happening outside of eight shows a week. And

00:43:03.610 --> 00:43:05.449
that voice got louder and louder. And then I

00:43:05.449 --> 00:43:07.570
found that, okay, well, I'm not ready to leave

00:43:07.570 --> 00:43:11.250
the show. So how can I not sabotage this? Because

00:43:11.250 --> 00:43:13.690
I did get burnout. How can I not sabotage this

00:43:13.690 --> 00:43:16.170
incredible opportunity? Okay, that's when I started

00:43:16.170 --> 00:43:18.650
doing outside. You know, once I got back, when

00:43:18.650 --> 00:43:20.489
I got off tour, when you're on tour, it's great

00:43:20.489 --> 00:43:21.869
because you're going to different cities. You

00:43:21.869 --> 00:43:23.590
get to be a different version of yourself in

00:43:23.590 --> 00:43:25.630
every city. You're meeting new people. The show's

00:43:25.630 --> 00:43:27.269
a hit. People are rolling off the red carpet

00:43:27.269 --> 00:43:30.050
wherever you go. Once I came back into the New

00:43:30.050 --> 00:43:33.289
York company, which was tremendous to take over

00:43:33.289 --> 00:43:35.010
the role on Broadway, I was the second person

00:43:35.010 --> 00:43:38.469
to do it on Broadway. Then it becomes, okay,

00:43:38.550 --> 00:43:41.429
now I'm in New York or I'm back home. I have,

00:43:41.489 --> 00:43:44.710
there's no excuse to not only do the show. And

00:43:44.710 --> 00:43:47.489
I started, okay, now people would do benefits.

00:43:47.610 --> 00:43:51.349
I would donate my voice just to do service in

00:43:51.349 --> 00:43:53.769
that way. I would start doing more cabaret acts

00:43:53.769 --> 00:43:55.869
because I would reach a point where I'm like,

00:43:55.909 --> 00:43:59.630
okay, doing this same thing every time and finding

00:43:59.630 --> 00:44:04.030
new things within is great, but I need, I'm a

00:44:04.030 --> 00:44:06.269
creative. I need to create something else. So

00:44:06.269 --> 00:44:09.730
I would do my own show where I wasn't directed.

00:44:09.809 --> 00:44:11.889
I could sing what I wanted to sing the way I

00:44:11.889 --> 00:44:13.630
wanted to sing it. So that became a balance.

00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.199
And then when I get around again, I thought,

00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:19.739
you know what? Maybe I'll do a Disney CD. You

00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:23.219
know, every Broadway star eventually released

00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:24.659
some kind of recording. I thought, maybe I'll

00:44:24.659 --> 00:44:27.239
do some Disney songs and give them my own spin.

00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.460
So that took a lot of my time. And that was great

00:44:30.460 --> 00:44:34.360
because, like, I wasn't just Mufasa. I was also

00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:37.119
financing another aspect of my dream, my creativity.

00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.780
And that lasted for a long time. And then at

00:44:40.780 --> 00:44:42.980
some point I realized. Which, by the way, that

00:44:42.980 --> 00:44:46.699
album is fantastic. Thank you, man. We're going

00:44:46.699 --> 00:44:49.300
to put a link to that in the show because I listened

00:44:49.300 --> 00:44:51.239
to it and then I listened to it on repeat. It's

00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.300
just absolutely fabulous to hear you sing and

00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:57.000
your take on different Broadway Disney songs,

00:44:57.139 --> 00:44:59.420
right? So fun. I mean, it's such a good album.

00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:01.619
Supercalus is probably my favorite because it's

00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:03.559
so different. Is that the one you favorite? Yeah.

00:45:04.099 --> 00:45:05.579
That one and her voice. It's such a great song.

00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.300
Her voice is. Yeah. Little Mermaid is my second

00:45:09.300 --> 00:45:11.639
favorite. But yeah, so there are ways. And when

00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:15.280
I do my talk, I talk about balancing your passion.

00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:18.300
It's okay to have more than one passion. And

00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:20.699
if you can find something else to detach, like

00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:23.099
I love this thing, but I'm going to detach from

00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:26.260
that and go to this other thing, I get to come

00:45:26.260 --> 00:45:28.460
back to this thing that I love with fresh eyes.

00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:33.460
So when I was recording my CD during the day

00:45:33.460 --> 00:45:35.500
and then go to the show at night, it was like,

00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.820
oh, wow, now I get to do this. already know with

00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:40.400
a different kind of energy as opposed to doing

00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:43.300
the same thing because we all need refreshers

00:45:43.300 --> 00:45:46.360
and when i do my talks i remind people that you're

00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:48.619
allowed to take a break even if you have to schedule

00:45:48.619 --> 00:45:51.579
it it's okay because it's not realistic to go

00:45:51.579 --> 00:45:55.260
like this all the time it's just not we're not

00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:57.800
machines we're human beings and other parts of

00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.579
ourselves want attention yeah definitely true

00:46:01.579 --> 00:46:04.840
um you know when you're doing this too so you

00:46:05.769 --> 00:46:09.110
you were you do miss saigon i mean it's this

00:46:09.110 --> 00:46:12.070
huge hit right and then you're the second person

00:46:12.070 --> 00:46:15.449
to do mufasa on broadway which lion king is um

00:46:15.449 --> 00:46:18.630
you know the the most successful uh box office

00:46:18.630 --> 00:46:21.150
wise uh broadway music of all time and my sixth

00:46:21.150 --> 00:46:22.949
broadway show i've done six broadway shows in

00:46:22.949 --> 00:46:27.369
total my goodness right and and how how easy

00:46:27.369 --> 00:46:30.130
it might be for somebody who's done that many

00:46:30.969 --> 00:46:32.670
to let their ego get a little out of control.

00:46:32.769 --> 00:46:35.449
And I want to read you a quote from you. So I'm

00:46:35.449 --> 00:46:36.329
going to quote you to you, and then I want to

00:46:36.329 --> 00:46:39.070
get you down. You said, gratitude is a great

00:46:39.070 --> 00:46:40.829
remedy for when our egos get out of control.

00:46:40.969 --> 00:46:43.389
So tell me more about that, about how gratitude

00:46:43.389 --> 00:46:47.210
played a role for you to help keep that ego in

00:46:47.210 --> 00:46:49.030
check a little bit, recognizing that you still

00:46:49.030 --> 00:46:51.570
have to recognize that you can do a lot and you

00:46:51.570 --> 00:46:53.250
do great things, but not letting it get out of

00:46:53.250 --> 00:46:58.369
control. Well, for me, I mean, I learned a lot

00:46:58.369 --> 00:47:00.800
from my mentors. you know, throughout theater.

00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:03.860
Even when I was in the chorus, I would look at

00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:06.059
the principals, the stars, and see how do they

00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:07.719
behave themselves? How do they take direction?

00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:09.719
How do they... Because when you're the lead of

00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:11.460
a show, people treat you differently. They treat

00:47:11.460 --> 00:47:13.800
you like you're a parent, whether you are or

00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:17.139
not. They just look to you differently. If and

00:47:17.139 --> 00:47:19.739
when I am blessed enough to have the opportunity

00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:22.400
to be one of those kind of people, how do I behave?

00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:26.219
You know, how do I address the cast? How do I,

00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:29.250
you know, how... It's a very real thing. What

00:47:29.250 --> 00:47:33.369
persona do I want to take on? And so once I got

00:47:33.369 --> 00:47:36.289
to that point, and I would talk to these people

00:47:36.289 --> 00:47:38.989
and ask them questions, and they loved it. They

00:47:38.989 --> 00:47:42.329
loved it. I was one of those real serious kids

00:47:42.329 --> 00:47:44.250
who really wanted to do it and really wanted

00:47:44.250 --> 00:47:46.789
to know every aspect of it. They would feed me

00:47:46.789 --> 00:47:48.690
and tell me, well, you do this and you do that,

00:47:48.690 --> 00:47:50.130
and this is appropriate, this isn't appropriate.

00:47:50.630 --> 00:47:53.070
So I had that kind of training from my mentors,

00:47:53.309 --> 00:47:57.420
and I learned then that... It's never about you.

00:47:57.539 --> 00:48:00.840
It's always about the work. The work is the most

00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:04.480
important thing. As an actor, like with Lion

00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.460
King or any show that I do, there's a whole team

00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:11.440
of people who crafted this piece of art. And

00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:16.079
every word that they chose, they chose. So I

00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:18.679
can't add to it. All I can do is take what they

00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.440
said and try to give it different meaning. You

00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:23.619
know, but still tell the story. So there has

00:48:23.619 --> 00:48:25.699
never been about Eagle. It's always been about

00:48:25.699 --> 00:48:28.039
the work. And again, that came from my mentors.

00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:31.000
In gratitude, I mean, there were many times when

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:32.880
I would be burnt out. I'd be sitting in my dressing

00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:34.940
room. I have one of the few dressing rooms on

00:48:34.940 --> 00:48:37.679
Broadway that has a window. Because most dressing

00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.699
rooms do not have windows. And my window faced

00:48:39.699 --> 00:48:42.460
out, I could see part of Times Square from my

00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:45.340
window. And I'd be sitting there going, you know,

00:48:45.380 --> 00:48:47.960
here I am playing Mufasa in the most incredible

00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:51.579
show ever. And what am I really doing with my

00:48:51.579 --> 00:48:53.420
life? You know what I mean? We all have those

00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:56.860
questions. no matter how successful we are, what

00:48:56.860 --> 00:48:59.639
am I really doing? And I would go, I remember

00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:01.340
those times, and I'd be walking through Times

00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:05.219
Square, not on Broadway, not working and thinking,

00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:07.420
will I ever be a part of this community again?

00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:10.139
Because you never know if your last Broadway

00:49:10.139 --> 00:49:12.860
show was going to be it. Like after Miss Saigon,

00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.199
I thought, this may be my one and only Broadway

00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.199
show. Thank goodness I got to do five more. But

00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.460
I think about that time and that feeling of not

00:49:20.460 --> 00:49:23.119
being a part of this thing I love, and I would

00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:27.730
go, Step out of it. I'm here right now. All right.

00:49:28.150 --> 00:49:30.869
So having gratitude at the foundation is something

00:49:30.869 --> 00:49:33.949
I can always tap into. And I have different levels

00:49:33.949 --> 00:49:37.150
of gratitude. So I will never get so burnt out

00:49:37.150 --> 00:49:39.150
that I can't tap into some kind of gratitude

00:49:39.150 --> 00:49:43.690
because it's that important to me. And I think

00:49:43.690 --> 00:49:45.829
that you may do some meditation. Is that one

00:49:45.829 --> 00:49:47.090
of the ways that you kind of center yourself

00:49:47.090 --> 00:49:48.869
in making sure that you find gratitude? Yeah.

00:49:48.869 --> 00:49:52.510
And to me, meditation isn't just sitting still.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.440
And this is something, another thing I discuss

00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:56.579
with my, when I do my talks for corporations

00:49:56.579 --> 00:49:58.900
and things, like meditation is whatever takes

00:49:58.900 --> 00:50:01.380
you to that comfortable place. My meditations

00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:04.980
are active, looking at meditation for me. I do

00:50:04.980 --> 00:50:07.699
hot yoga. You know, my best thoughts come to

00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:11.079
me when I'm in a hot room and I do not, I'm a

00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:12.539
fan, I'm a person who's not a fan of summer.

00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:16.239
So like me doing hot yoga is like, I can't believe

00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:18.420
that, you know, 17 years later that I'm a hot

00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:21.420
yogi, but it takes me to the place of like. where

00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:23.460
I go through the fire, I get to the other side,

00:50:23.539 --> 00:50:25.599
every class, and I find this place of, like,

00:50:25.699 --> 00:50:28.300
I never thought I'd be here. And that's where

00:50:28.300 --> 00:50:31.119
the clarity is for me. So whatever takes you

00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.239
there, for me, it is that. It is cooking. It

00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:35.320
is taking a beautiful drive. It's being in nature.

00:50:35.579 --> 00:50:38.119
I'm a tree hugger. You know, I have a garden.

00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:40.860
I'm blessed to have, live in a brownstone, have

00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:43.460
a roof garden. They feed me. I think that's something

00:50:43.460 --> 00:50:47.119
I get to nurture. So whatever, meditation doesn't

00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:49.199
have to be still. A lot of us are very busy.

00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:51.400
It could be... Yeah, that could be a beautiful

00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:54.519
drive and great music or sometimes just driving

00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:57.099
and listening to the wind. Whatever calms you

00:50:57.099 --> 00:50:59.920
down is your meditation. Yeah, I think it's a

00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:02.320
really great point. I think for me, it's something

00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:03.980
that I've kind of come to the realization of

00:51:03.980 --> 00:51:05.519
in the last few years. And for me, that's actually

00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:08.480
been running, which is not something I ever would

00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:10.400
have guessed, much like you don't like summer.

00:51:10.420 --> 00:51:12.159
I hated running. Like I thought it was terrible.

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:14.480
Why would anybody do this torture? And yet I

00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:16.159
had a really good friend who just encouraged

00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:18.920
me to do it. And so I started doing it and I

00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:20.739
just stuck with it. And I finally got to this

00:51:20.739 --> 00:51:23.159
point where when I run, it's, it is an absolute

00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:25.880
meditative state. And I know I can go to that

00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:28.320
when I need to just think, when I need to just

00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:31.139
almost kind of clear my mind and then think really,

00:51:31.219 --> 00:51:34.099
really clearly about things. It's moving my body

00:51:34.099 --> 00:51:35.820
and it's running. And that's absolutely become

00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:38.000
that for me. And I love what you're saying there,

00:51:38.019 --> 00:51:40.869
the advice about. Like find what it is for you

00:51:40.869 --> 00:51:42.510
because it doesn't have to be sitting there,

00:51:42.590 --> 00:51:44.590
you know, doing a particular pose and doing owns,

00:51:44.710 --> 00:51:47.449
right? It doesn't have to be that. It can be

00:51:47.449 --> 00:51:50.309
a lot of things, but find what it is. And then

00:51:50.309 --> 00:51:54.530
be intentional. Yes. Do more of it. Be intentional.

00:51:54.590 --> 00:51:56.789
Do more of it. If you're busy, schedule time.

00:51:56.909 --> 00:52:00.050
Like this is for me. Oh, I'm going to take out

00:52:00.050 --> 00:52:02.670
a half hour, no matter what's going on, to detach

00:52:02.670 --> 00:52:04.510
and go do this thing. And then I'm going to come

00:52:04.510 --> 00:52:07.210
back a better version of myself for everything

00:52:07.210 --> 00:52:09.730
that I touch. Because I've given this to myself.

00:52:09.949 --> 00:52:11.690
I love what you said about running. You think,

00:52:11.750 --> 00:52:13.969
why would anybody do that? I felt the same way

00:52:13.969 --> 00:52:16.170
about yoga. But then when I do it, it's like

00:52:16.170 --> 00:52:18.570
I get the mental stuff, but then I get all the

00:52:18.570 --> 00:52:20.550
physical benefits, all the other stuff that I

00:52:20.550 --> 00:52:24.489
didn't even think about. But the real, the bottom

00:52:24.489 --> 00:52:29.110
line is I'm doing it for me. Yeah. And all those

00:52:29.110 --> 00:52:30.809
other things become great surprise benefits,

00:52:31.130 --> 00:52:34.489
right? Yeah, such a great point. You know, one

00:52:34.489 --> 00:52:37.539
of the things I thought about when you are doing

00:52:37.539 --> 00:52:41.019
all these performances of Mufasa, is that, you

00:52:41.019 --> 00:52:45.320
know, each night, it's like you have to hit such

00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:50.079
heavy emotional beats playing that role as Mufasa,

00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:53.960
right? How do you do that and not have those

00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.639
heavy emotional beats take a toll on your personal

00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:58.920
life? Well, this is where training comes in.

00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:02.219
Because, you know, I know a lot of folks. I did

00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:04.300
a show called The Color Purple. I got to play.

00:53:05.019 --> 00:53:06.840
Mister in the color purple. And I got to work

00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:09.420
with Fantasia, who was fantastic. She wanted

00:53:09.420 --> 00:53:12.119
to do the film. She was wonderful. She's naturally

00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:15.699
talented. And, you know, because it was so close

00:53:15.699 --> 00:53:18.539
to her real life, it was really hard for her

00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:21.179
to turn it off. And it was really, as a cast,

00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.119
we saw her really go through it, really struggle

00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:28.360
with it. She's such a genuine, sweet, kind. I

00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:30.900
mean, she's what you think she is. Just a Southern

00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:33.099
girl who's just the sweetest can be. And she's

00:53:33.099 --> 00:53:36.570
dealing with all this stuff. And it's like, here's

00:53:36.570 --> 00:53:39.590
a great example of like, you know, if you have

00:53:39.590 --> 00:53:41.710
training, part of your training is learning to

00:53:41.710 --> 00:53:44.530
like be there when you're there, but then turn

00:53:44.530 --> 00:53:47.670
it off once the curtain comes down. That's why

00:53:47.670 --> 00:53:50.289
many people think they can just go from TV and

00:53:50.289 --> 00:53:52.510
film or another medium and go and do eight shows

00:53:52.510 --> 00:53:55.690
a week. They always go, wow, I had no idea it

00:53:55.690 --> 00:53:57.650
was this hard. It's like, yeah, you've got to

00:53:57.650 --> 00:54:00.250
sustain that and you have to have a life beyond

00:54:00.250 --> 00:54:01.730
it. But if you don't have that kind of training,

00:54:01.969 --> 00:54:03.989
you can't help but take it home with you. because

00:54:03.989 --> 00:54:06.690
because you're using real parts of yourself to

00:54:06.690 --> 00:54:09.389
tap into this emotion to communicate to the audience

00:54:09.389 --> 00:54:14.989
so the training definitely helped and i was saying

00:54:14.989 --> 00:54:19.230
earlier about you know not i can't it's not realistic

00:54:19.230 --> 00:54:23.210
for me to only do mufasa and insist on every

00:54:23.210 --> 00:54:27.050
show be perfect i have to like leave some space

00:54:27.050 --> 00:54:30.469
for myself to make mistakes and to be human because

00:54:30.469 --> 00:54:32.429
i'm not a machine even though i'm consistent

00:54:32.429 --> 00:54:35.079
and i Am I proud of myself on that? I am a human

00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:39.260
being. So having a life out of it is very, very

00:54:39.260 --> 00:54:41.719
important. Something to detach to that you enjoy

00:54:41.719 --> 00:54:46.159
is very, very important. And this is with any

00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:50.500
business, right? Yeah. I mean, I think one of

00:54:50.500 --> 00:54:52.500
the things I thought about when I was kind of

00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:54.400
thinking through this and the emotional toll

00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:57.920
things can take and the repetitive. The repetitive

00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:00.519
beats that you have to have. When I think about

00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.900
what my profession is, one of the things that

00:55:02.900 --> 00:55:04.599
I struggled with initially when I was first doing

00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:07.800
divorces as a divorce attorney was trying to

00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:11.980
set aside my clients' issues and problems so

00:55:11.980 --> 00:55:14.780
that I didn't take them home as my own. Because

00:55:14.780 --> 00:55:17.460
I was doing those every day. I was counseling

00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:20.039
people every single day about... maybe the most

00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:21.980
difficult emotional thing that they've had to

00:55:21.980 --> 00:55:24.639
do, many of them in their lives. And it was really

00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:26.519
hard because I took it home, right? I took it

00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:29.800
home at first. It was so hard. And it just, over

00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:31.980
time, I learned to start creating better boundaries.

00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:34.900
I learned to start leaving that more at the office

00:55:34.900 --> 00:55:37.679
so that I didn't bring it home, but it took a

00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:39.739
toll initially, right? It was really hard. And

00:55:39.739 --> 00:55:41.460
in essence, that was the training I had to go

00:55:41.460 --> 00:55:42.840
through, I guess, which is kind of on the job

00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:45.739
training, I suppose, and see how the negative

00:55:45.739 --> 00:55:47.960
effects were, but realize I needed to do it a

00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:49.920
little bit differently. year. So was there anything

00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:52.139
particular that happened? Is there a particular

00:55:52.139 --> 00:55:55.119
case that made you go, wait, I can't, this is

00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:57.400
not sustainable. I've got to find, I've got to,

00:55:57.400 --> 00:55:59.559
this is something that, that caused you to really

00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:05.800
go, I need to set boundaries. Yes. And in fact,

00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:08.159
there was a number of like really difficult emotional

00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.179
cases that I had to deal with, with some like

00:56:10.179 --> 00:56:12.340
really tough things that happened, but the one

00:56:12.340 --> 00:56:14.739
that really made it clear to me that I needed

00:56:14.739 --> 00:56:17.170
to have the boundaries for. myself and for my

00:56:17.170 --> 00:56:20.289
family was actually the case was relatively innocuous

00:56:20.289 --> 00:56:23.789
but i was at disneyland with my family and i

00:56:23.789 --> 00:56:26.869
had given out my cell phone to some clients and

00:56:26.869 --> 00:56:29.909
i had a client that was just incessantly texting

00:56:29.909 --> 00:56:32.130
me about what they perceived as an emergency

00:56:32.130 --> 00:56:35.570
and i'm sure for them it felt that way for me

00:56:35.570 --> 00:56:38.210
knowing the law i knew that it wasn't right but

00:56:38.210 --> 00:56:39.829
i knew that it was something that didn't need

00:56:39.829 --> 00:56:43.070
to get addressed But it was just like text after

00:56:43.070 --> 00:56:44.949
text. And I'm trying to enjoy this time with

00:56:44.949 --> 00:56:46.469
my kids. I'm trying to be present with them.

00:56:46.730 --> 00:56:49.329
And my phone's getting blown up. And it was kind

00:56:49.329 --> 00:56:53.269
of like, oh, it hit me. The boundary has to be,

00:56:53.369 --> 00:56:56.190
I can't get about myself. I can't be dealing

00:56:56.190 --> 00:56:58.090
with these things when I'm going to be on vacation

00:56:58.090 --> 00:57:00.769
or I'm out of the office. It has to be, it's

00:57:00.769 --> 00:57:02.349
okay for me to set that aside. Does that mean

00:57:02.349 --> 00:57:04.210
that some clients aren't going to hire me because

00:57:04.210 --> 00:57:07.070
they can't access me 24 -7? It sure does. And

00:57:07.070 --> 00:57:09.289
that's okay. And I had to be okay with that.

00:57:09.329 --> 00:57:12.530
Exactly, dude. Know thyself and know what you

00:57:12.530 --> 00:57:16.849
need to perform at a high level. And it's different

00:57:16.849 --> 00:57:18.530
for all of us, but if you don't set it, then

00:57:18.530 --> 00:57:20.949
you leave yourself at the mercy of it. Because

00:57:20.949 --> 00:57:24.130
I feel like that person, if he keeps calling

00:57:24.130 --> 00:57:25.570
and you keep picking up, they think, well, it

00:57:25.570 --> 00:57:29.849
must be okay. That's exactly right. It's up to

00:57:29.849 --> 00:57:33.969
you to go, that is not okay. And also with me

00:57:33.969 --> 00:57:36.230
in those cases, I've learned to really trust

00:57:36.230 --> 00:57:38.590
my instincts. with any friendships, anything,

00:57:38.769 --> 00:57:40.869
even kids who want to be looking for mentorship,

00:57:41.090 --> 00:57:44.630
I can tell if the kid is looking for me to do

00:57:44.630 --> 00:57:46.869
everything for them or if they've already started

00:57:46.869 --> 00:57:50.730
and they just need help. Because I don't like

00:57:50.730 --> 00:57:53.469
wasting my time. You know, I like making good

00:57:53.469 --> 00:57:56.010
investments. And I've learned to go, okay, yeah,

00:57:56.130 --> 00:57:58.329
I'm a loving, giving person, but that has to

00:57:58.329 --> 00:58:00.789
be earned from someone. I'm not going to just

00:58:00.789 --> 00:58:03.769
give it because I've allowed it to be abused

00:58:03.769 --> 00:58:07.099
so many times. So you live and you learn. yeah

00:58:07.099 --> 00:58:09.420
yeah no doubt so one of the other things too

00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:11.199
i wanted to get a little bit more of your take

00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:17.219
on as well is what did you learn from being mufasa

00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:21.920
himself right being the king both the things

00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:23.860
the lessons from that show but also what you

00:58:23.860 --> 00:58:25.960
mentioned a little bit in your in your book which

00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:28.739
is unessence kind of became that for the cast

00:58:28.739 --> 00:58:30.820
at times as well like the leader for the cast

00:58:30.820 --> 00:58:33.760
tell me what lessons you learned from mufasa

00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:38.199
i learned um I learned quiet strength. I learned

00:58:38.199 --> 00:58:39.739
that you don't need a lot of words to make your

00:58:39.739 --> 00:58:43.460
point. Because when I first saw Lion King, I

00:58:43.460 --> 00:58:44.820
first saw Lion King, I was doing a show called

00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:47.639
Ragtime, where I was like the star of the last

00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:50.039
battle of this glorious show that I'm actually

00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:53.619
in the process of directing. I'm making my directorial

00:58:53.619 --> 00:58:57.579
debut with it in September. So I've been in meetings

00:58:57.579 --> 00:59:00.119
for the past month with, you know, costume designers

00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:03.739
and set designers. I had, you know, three meetings

00:59:03.739 --> 00:59:05.789
this morning. But anyway. Where's that going

00:59:05.789 --> 00:59:07.969
to be? I have to digress here. Where's that going

00:59:07.969 --> 00:59:09.550
to be at? It's going to be in Lancaster, Pennsylvania,

00:59:09.789 --> 00:59:11.590
in a place called the Fulton Theater, a beautiful

00:59:11.590 --> 00:59:16.190
theater. No kidding. But I'm doing this big show,

00:59:16.349 --> 00:59:20.170
and I remember that year, the Tonys, it was Ragtime

00:59:20.170 --> 00:59:24.889
and The Lion King. And who's going to win Best

00:59:24.889 --> 00:59:27.690
Musical? The Tonys, one would win something,

00:59:27.750 --> 00:59:29.650
then the other. And they kept going down, and

00:59:29.650 --> 00:59:32.230
then Lion King, of course, took the prize. And

00:59:32.230 --> 00:59:35.190
I remember thinking, Man, when I get a chance

00:59:35.190 --> 00:59:36.730
to see the show, I want to see what the big deal.

00:59:36.889 --> 00:59:38.449
It can't be all of that. And then, of course,

00:59:38.469 --> 00:59:41.329
I saw it. I was like, oh, wow. I remember seeing

00:59:41.329 --> 00:59:44.230
the gentleman who played the original Mufasa

00:59:44.230 --> 00:59:46.489
and being moved by his performance, but thinking,

00:59:46.550 --> 00:59:49.110
man, he doesn't have enough to do. I could never

00:59:49.110 --> 00:59:51.269
play that part because he's just not enough there.

00:59:51.730 --> 00:59:54.630
I was younger then. And then I was cast as Mufasa

00:59:54.630 --> 00:59:56.849
to open the national tour and take it around

00:59:56.849 --> 00:59:59.760
the country for the first time. I complained.

00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:02.460
I was like, man, he's only in the first act.

01:00:02.500 --> 01:00:05.000
He doesn't have a whole lot of lines. But it

01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:07.800
was what it was. And then when I left the show

01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:11.340
to do Mr. in the Color Purple, and then was invited

01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:14.360
back to Lion King to open the Vegas company,

01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:19.679
I was like, wow, I've matured some. And now I

01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:22.800
understand why he says what he says. He doesn't

01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:25.119
need a whole lot of dialogue. It's about his

01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:27.519
presence, about what he represents. It's about

01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:31.369
his inner strength. It's about him taking the

01:00:31.369 --> 01:00:34.269
few words he has to say and saying them with

01:00:34.269 --> 01:00:36.750
meaning. I had enough life experience at that

01:00:36.750 --> 01:00:40.389
point to go, I can just say it like this, and

01:00:40.389 --> 01:00:45.530
that's it. So it taught me that the power of

01:00:45.530 --> 01:00:51.389
words, the power of clarity, strength. It taught

01:00:51.389 --> 01:00:53.730
me that a leader is not just someone who tells

01:00:53.730 --> 01:00:56.369
people what to do. A leader is also a very good

01:00:56.369 --> 01:00:59.889
listener. and a good problem solver and a good

01:00:59.889 --> 01:01:02.349
team player and listens well enough to go, okay,

01:01:02.510 --> 01:01:05.610
given what I've learned, you might be good at

01:01:05.610 --> 01:01:07.809
doing this. You might be good at doing that.

01:01:07.969 --> 01:01:10.070
You might be good at doing this. Let's all do

01:01:10.070 --> 01:01:11.869
this. Let's all make this happen together as

01:01:11.869 --> 01:01:14.449
opposed to I have to make that. So it taught

01:01:14.449 --> 01:01:16.829
me a lot of things about leadership and what

01:01:16.829 --> 01:01:20.389
it takes to really be king. And we all have that

01:01:20.389 --> 01:01:24.559
in us. For sure. Real quick, one of the things

01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.820
that I wanted to ask you about as well was one

01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:29.519
of the songs that was unique to the Broadway

01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:33.179
version of Lion King. It's just such an amazing

01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:36.340
song. And just really get your interpretation

01:01:36.340 --> 01:01:39.719
of what the song means for you and what it could

01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:42.460
mean for people. And in the song, and I'm sure

01:01:42.460 --> 01:01:43.599
you know which one I'm going to talk about, but

01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:46.300
the song lines read, He lives in you. He lives

01:01:46.300 --> 01:01:49.739
in me. He watches over everything we see into

01:01:49.739 --> 01:01:52.019
the water, into the truth, in your reflection.

01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:57.599
He lives in you. And so just some wonderful lines

01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.239
and the way that it plays out to you is just

01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:02.539
such an emotional song. So, you know, for you,

01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:07.760
what are the meanings of that song in your life?

01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:11.380
And as you were part of that, as you would sing

01:02:11.380 --> 01:02:13.320
and hear others sing that, what did that song

01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:17.500
mean to you? Well, when I first saw the show,

01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:20.699
actually before I saw the show, to be totally

01:02:20.699 --> 01:02:23.909
honest, I heard the soundtrack. And that song

01:02:23.909 --> 01:02:26.929
stood out to me. Something about the lyrics and

01:02:26.929 --> 01:02:28.929
music. I was like, whoa. And I remember back

01:02:28.929 --> 01:02:33.070
in the day, before iPods and things, we had,

01:02:33.309 --> 01:02:35.170
you know, if you liked songs, you would make

01:02:35.170 --> 01:02:38.789
your own playlist on a cassette. And on my cassette,

01:02:38.989 --> 01:02:41.389
on my gym cassette, was They Live In You. I thought

01:02:41.389 --> 01:02:43.449
it was so beautiful. It helped get me up. It

01:02:43.449 --> 01:02:47.670
helped me get motivated for the gym. And then

01:02:47.670 --> 01:02:49.590
when I saw the show and the way it staged, it

01:02:49.590 --> 01:02:52.500
was like, wow. And there's two different versions.

01:02:53.159 --> 01:02:57.539
Mufasa thinks they live in you. Because he's

01:02:57.539 --> 01:02:59.699
explaining, Simba asked him, you know, dad will

01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:02.519
always be together, right? And Mufasa, you know,

01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:04.880
coming out of just having saved him from the

01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:07.500
hyenas, is not expecting, they've had the talk

01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:10.519
about danger. He wasn't expecting to have this

01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:13.780
talk about, yeah, one day I won't be here. So

01:03:13.780 --> 01:03:16.300
he looks up into the stars and taps into the

01:03:16.300 --> 01:03:18.519
energy of his ancestors and sings they live in

01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:21.820
you. And then in act two, when Simba's trying

01:03:21.820 --> 01:03:24.300
to find his own, thinking about going back, he

01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:27.000
sings, he lives in you, which is talking about

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.280
Mufasa. So to me, what the song says, especially

01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:33.380
they live in you, is that energy never dies.

01:03:34.059 --> 01:03:38.719
That we have the opportunity to pull from anyone

01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:43.440
that we've ever heard about, we've ever encountered,

01:03:43.579 --> 01:03:47.869
the lessons, the love, the beauty. Anything we

01:03:47.869 --> 01:03:51.210
want, if we choose to remember, which is the

01:03:51.210 --> 01:03:54.570
recurring theme of Lion King. Remember who you

01:03:54.570 --> 01:03:56.829
are. Remember where you come from. So that song

01:03:56.829 --> 01:04:00.809
means a lot to me, especially as a Black male

01:04:00.809 --> 01:04:04.269
who was pursuing theater, who when I went to

01:04:04.269 --> 01:04:06.190
college, when I started college, I was told that

01:04:06.190 --> 01:04:08.909
there were no roles for me on Broadway. I remember

01:04:08.909 --> 01:04:12.190
being in class as the only Black male in this

01:04:12.190 --> 01:04:15.130
class and the teacher going around the... class

01:04:15.130 --> 01:04:17.289
and going susan when you get to new york you

01:04:17.289 --> 01:04:19.590
got this looking for you waiting for you and

01:04:19.590 --> 01:04:24.130
him you and oh alton unfortunately the only things

01:04:24.130 --> 01:04:25.949
waiting for you are slave type roles like in

01:04:25.949 --> 01:04:28.250
showboat if you said this in front of the class

01:04:28.250 --> 01:04:30.570
i remember thinking she's talking to me did she

01:04:30.570 --> 01:04:33.349
really say this aloud of course i hurt my feelings

01:04:33.349 --> 01:04:35.690
as a young person but again it was another test

01:04:35.690 --> 01:04:40.570
am i gonna let her ignorance be projected onto

01:04:40.570 --> 01:04:43.710
me No. And no matter how much it hurt my feelings,

01:04:43.809 --> 01:04:45.570
I still knew that I wanted to do it. I thought,

01:04:45.630 --> 01:04:48.289
wow, this is a good lesson for me. You know,

01:04:48.309 --> 01:04:51.030
I will be tested, but yeah, I still want to do

01:04:51.030 --> 01:04:52.769
it. And I believe that there is something waiting

01:04:52.769 --> 01:04:54.849
for me. So I think about all those things. I

01:04:54.849 --> 01:04:57.110
think about the Black performers who came before

01:04:57.110 --> 01:04:59.829
me, who were more talented than me, who didn't

01:04:59.829 --> 01:05:01.530
have the opportunity to get to Broadway because

01:05:01.530 --> 01:05:04.349
of the times. And I go, wow, I get to pull from

01:05:04.349 --> 01:05:08.909
their energy. I get to represent them. And not

01:05:08.909 --> 01:05:12.099
just them, but anybody. in history that has inspired

01:05:12.099 --> 01:05:14.699
me, I get to be a present representation of them.

01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:17.440
So they will always live in me as long as I allow

01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:22.139
them to. So that's kind of like a major theme

01:05:22.139 --> 01:05:24.260
of my life. It was when I first heard the song

01:05:24.260 --> 01:05:26.699
and then getting the opportunity to perform it

01:05:26.699 --> 01:05:29.239
nightly and have that meaning behind it, you

01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:30.860
know, in the context of the show and also what

01:05:30.860 --> 01:05:33.440
I felt about it personally was tremendous. A

01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:35.760
tremendous gift to be able to really share that

01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:38.650
in that way. Well, I think part of what's so

01:05:38.650 --> 01:05:41.630
inspirational for me about you and your story

01:05:41.630 --> 01:05:43.889
is, especially hearing some of the things you

01:05:43.889 --> 01:05:47.369
shared today, is that you're keeping those parts

01:05:47.369 --> 01:05:50.769
of inspiration and letting those be what you

01:05:50.769 --> 01:05:54.920
remember as opposed to the things that... a lot

01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:57.739
of people might use as excuses for not doing

01:05:57.739 --> 01:05:59.579
something great and for holding themselves back

01:05:59.579 --> 01:06:02.139
because they experienced something so hard and

01:06:02.139 --> 01:06:03.739
so difficult. And so they have all the excuses

01:06:03.739 --> 01:06:06.139
in the world not to go put themselves out there

01:06:06.139 --> 01:06:08.179
and to do something truly great. And yet what

01:06:08.179 --> 01:06:10.239
you've done is, is something truly great and

01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:12.360
truly inspirational for, for so many people.

01:06:12.420 --> 01:06:15.869
And I thank you for that. Oh, thank you. So one

01:06:15.869 --> 01:06:17.190
of the things we want to end with is we'll do

01:06:17.190 --> 01:06:19.150
a quick little fun segment. We're going to do

01:06:19.150 --> 01:06:20.809
a quick this or that and rapid fire, and then

01:06:20.809 --> 01:06:23.429
we'll wrap up with your three actionable takeaways.

01:06:23.489 --> 01:06:25.809
So buckle up for this, this or that. Okay. Are

01:06:25.809 --> 01:06:27.510
you ready for this? I mean, I'm sitting down.

01:06:27.530 --> 01:06:29.050
I got my nerves together. All right, let's go.

01:06:29.170 --> 01:06:32.769
Let's go. All right. First one, circle of life

01:06:32.769 --> 01:06:39.110
or Hakuna Matata? Circle of life. So good. I'm

01:06:39.110 --> 01:06:40.329
going to digress for a second here, even though

01:06:40.329 --> 01:06:42.030
it's not going to be fast. One of the most brilliant

01:06:42.030 --> 01:06:43.789
things I think that Disney did was when they

01:06:43.789 --> 01:06:46.750
did the initial trailer for the movie, that it

01:06:46.750 --> 01:06:49.250
was just Circle of Life. That's what they did.

01:06:49.349 --> 01:06:51.389
It was literally just that, that whole opening

01:06:51.389 --> 01:06:53.210
scene. There wasn't anything else in the trailer.

01:06:53.329 --> 01:06:55.110
And it was the most brilliant thing because the

01:06:55.110 --> 01:06:57.789
song is so beautifully written and the whole

01:06:57.789 --> 01:07:00.150
thing about it is just so wonderful. I love that.

01:07:00.170 --> 01:07:01.869
And it's about community. That opening is about

01:07:01.869 --> 01:07:04.579
community coming together. which is everything,

01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.460
right? Community. Yeah, which we can all relate

01:07:06.460 --> 01:07:08.920
to, right? It's so much of that, like we talked

01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:11.059
about before, the sense of belonging. Yeah. And

01:07:11.059 --> 01:07:12.599
having a sense of belonging because we all can

01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:14.619
work together. We all become something that can

01:07:14.619 --> 01:07:17.880
support each other. And also, can I tell you

01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:19.840
something that just bugs me? It really bugs me.

01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:22.380
Everybody says something, instead of saying,

01:07:22.420 --> 01:07:24.380
excuse me, or no problem, or you're welcome,

01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:26.639
they go, no worries. I'm like, where did this

01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:29.059
no worries thing come from? And now I just go,

01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:30.739
you know what I'm talking about? And they looked

01:07:30.739 --> 01:07:32.460
at me like, what I'm like, means no worries.

01:07:32.940 --> 01:07:34.900
I'm like, where did that, why does everybody

01:07:34.900 --> 01:07:38.219
start saying no worries instead of like other

01:07:38.219 --> 01:07:42.519
words? It seems really lazy to me. Sure. You're

01:07:42.519 --> 01:07:45.800
welcome. No worries. And it's like, who's worried?

01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:47.960
Nobody's worried about anything. But anyway.

01:07:48.659 --> 01:07:53.480
I actually saw a clip a couple of days ago that

01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:55.340
said exactly that, right? Like, we got to all

01:07:55.340 --> 01:07:57.199
stop saying no worries. There's so many other

01:07:57.199 --> 01:07:59.340
things we can say that are more precise and much

01:07:59.340 --> 01:08:02.179
better. Use your vocabulary. You know other words.

01:08:02.780 --> 01:08:04.440
I might have to borrow that. I might have to

01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:06.599
borrow that idea of hakuna matata next time somebody

01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:09.179
says no worries. Hakuna matata? Is that what

01:08:09.179 --> 01:08:11.179
we're talking about? Right, exactly. It always

01:08:11.179 --> 01:08:13.710
throws them and they wind up giggling. Yeah.

01:08:13.710 --> 01:08:15.449
Yeah, I'm like, anyway. I love it. Bring a little

01:08:15.449 --> 01:08:17.470
levity, right? It's always kind of fun to bring

01:08:17.470 --> 01:08:20.590
a little levity. Opening night or closing night?

01:08:21.710 --> 01:08:25.069
Opening night. Closing nights are so hard. Oh,

01:08:25.130 --> 01:08:27.550
I'm sure. Because you become such a family. I

01:08:27.550 --> 01:08:28.930
don't care. Like, even this thing I just sang

01:08:28.930 --> 01:08:30.710
with the Pops last week with the other singers,

01:08:30.869 --> 01:08:33.350
and we had, you know, so little time to put this

01:08:33.350 --> 01:08:36.529
together. You rehearse on your own. You got blocking,

01:08:36.670 --> 01:08:38.989
staging, one day with the orchestra the next

01:08:38.989 --> 01:08:41.199
day, and then you do it. And it's so concentrated.

01:08:41.220 --> 01:08:43.220
You're depending on each other in ways you can't

01:08:43.220 --> 01:08:45.479
even imagine. Then suddenly it's over. It's like

01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:50.300
always sad, no matter how. And it was a triumph,

01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:52.779
but it's still like, oh, man, I don't know when

01:08:52.779 --> 01:08:56.039
I will ever see them again. And the four of us

01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:58.199
may never, ever work together like this. But

01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:00.439
opening is always exciting. It's like you don't

01:09:00.439 --> 01:09:01.680
know what it's going to be. You've rehearsed,

01:09:01.699 --> 01:09:04.020
but you still don't know until that moment what

01:09:04.020 --> 01:09:06.319
it's going to be. So there's an excitement and

01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:09.619
a nervousness that's a part of the opening. Yeah,

01:09:09.640 --> 01:09:12.800
I love that. It's a great answer. Matinee or

01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:16.500
evening show? Evening. Matinees are rough. Oh,

01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:18.560
yeah. I mean, probably just the volume, the sheer

01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:20.800
volume of what you've got to do. Dude, when I

01:09:20.800 --> 01:09:23.439
was doing Ragtime, which is a beast of a show,

01:09:23.539 --> 01:09:25.899
you know, my character sings all these anthems.

01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:28.220
You know, we did a five -show weekend. We did

01:09:28.220 --> 01:09:30.899
those with Lion King, too. So you as an audience

01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:32.439
member, you're seeing the show and going, oh,

01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:34.220
my goodness, you're exhausted from having gone

01:09:34.220 --> 01:09:36.569
on this journey. And we're going to do, if you

01:09:36.569 --> 01:09:38.390
see a 2 o 'clock show, we're going to do that

01:09:38.390 --> 01:09:42.010
again that evening. So a typical five -show weekend

01:09:42.010 --> 01:09:47.689
is Tuesday, Saturday, Sunday. You see no daylight.

01:09:47.810 --> 01:09:51.630
All you see is the dark theater, and you're doing

01:09:51.630 --> 01:09:53.689
what you love to do. So that's a whole other

01:09:53.689 --> 01:09:57.210
set of challenges that the average person doesn't

01:09:57.210 --> 01:10:00.310
know about. And I remember that. Because I see

01:10:00.310 --> 01:10:02.069
a lot of shows now, and I go, Steve, you're really

01:10:02.069 --> 01:10:03.840
good. I go... When I go see an evening show,

01:10:03.880 --> 01:10:05.520
like a Wednesday night, knowing they've done

01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:08.060
a matinee that day, I go, how did they do it?

01:10:08.319 --> 01:10:11.260
And I did it. And I still don't understand, like,

01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:13.720
how did they get all that emotion, all that investment

01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:18.939
twice today? Wow. Yeah. It gives me a greater

01:10:18.939 --> 01:10:21.460
appreciation for, because my wife and I now love

01:10:21.460 --> 01:10:23.600
going to New York because we just absolutely

01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:25.779
love Broadway. And when we're there. We have

01:10:25.779 --> 01:10:27.180
to connect the next time you're here, for sure.

01:10:27.319 --> 01:10:30.899
Oh, 100%. 100%. Whenever I'm there, I always

01:10:30.899 --> 01:10:33.319
kind of bemoan like, oh, it's Monday. There's

01:10:33.319 --> 01:10:35.300
no shows. How come they don't do shows on Monday?

01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:37.640
Well, it's because they're doing so many. Like,

01:10:37.640 --> 01:10:39.920
they have to have a break. They're human, right?

01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.300
Like, of course, there's going to be a day. Some

01:10:42.300 --> 01:10:44.520
theaters have gotten smart. Now they do Monday

01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:47.800
shows. They'll have a Thursday off because they

01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.659
want to take advantage. They want to be one of

01:10:50.659 --> 01:10:52.579
three things you have an option of seeing. And

01:10:52.579 --> 01:10:54.020
there's always a Broadway happening everywhere.

01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:56.199
But more and more people are doing Monday shows

01:10:56.199 --> 01:10:59.159
for that reason. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to

01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:00.800
vary from the this or that real quick, and I'm

01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:02.520
going to ask you a quick rapid fire. What's your

01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:05.000
favorite show currently on Broadway that's not

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.279
Lion King? Oh, my favorite show on Broadway,

01:11:07.420 --> 01:11:11.000
that's, oh, that's tough. Man, what have I seen

01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:12.600
that I really love? I'm trying to think of what's

01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.800
on Broadway. I see so much theater that I'm trying

01:11:15.800 --> 01:11:17.800
to remember what's Broadway, what's off Broadway.

01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.720
My favorite on -Broadway show, it's probably

01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:23.840
- Is Desi Comes Here still playing? No, it just

01:11:23.840 --> 01:11:25.600
closed a couple of weeks ago. I loved it. Did

01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:27.720
you see that? I did. I saw it twice. Oh, it was

01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:30.399
so good. It was great, yeah. I normally say Hadestown.

01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:33.060
Hadestown is really a fantastic show. Hadestown's

01:11:33.060 --> 01:11:34.720
amazing. Yeah, I've seen it like three times.

01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:36.380
You weren't ever in Hadestown, were you? No.

01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:38.399
I always said that if I were to go back to theater,

01:11:38.659 --> 01:11:40.899
that's, Hadestown is a role that I would want

01:11:40.899 --> 01:11:43.229
to play. Because you'd be incredible. In that

01:11:43.229 --> 01:11:44.729
role. Yeah. You'd be absolutely unbelievable.

01:11:44.970 --> 01:11:47.250
That show, I mean, that show takes some singing,

01:11:47.390 --> 01:11:49.789
right? I mean, all Broadway does, but boy, that

01:11:49.789 --> 01:11:52.130
one sure does. And when, every time I've seen

01:11:52.130 --> 01:11:54.130
it, it just blew my socks off. It's so good.

01:11:54.409 --> 01:11:56.109
It's one of those shows where you really feel

01:11:56.109 --> 01:11:58.550
like you're a part of the world. Yeah. You just

01:11:58.550 --> 01:12:00.149
really, like, you forget that you're in a theater

01:12:00.149 --> 01:12:01.770
and you really feel like you're in, you're on

01:12:01.770 --> 01:12:04.609
stage with them, living all of that. Yes. Very

01:12:04.609 --> 01:12:07.430
few shows can take you there. Yeah, it totally

01:12:07.430 --> 01:12:09.670
brings you in. Okay, singing in the shower or

01:12:09.670 --> 01:12:16.079
singing in the car? Both. More in the car. I'm

01:12:16.079 --> 01:12:18.720
always conscious of my neighbors. I'm always

01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:20.779
conscious of that, but in the car, dude. Full

01:12:20.779 --> 01:12:23.600
on. Full concert. For me, it's the car because

01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:26.420
I still do it in the shower, but my kids hear

01:12:26.420 --> 01:12:28.060
it and then they tease me because I'm not a good

01:12:28.060 --> 01:12:31.579
singer at all. Legitimately, I'm not. They're

01:12:31.579 --> 01:12:32.720
always giving me a hard time when I'm singing

01:12:32.720 --> 01:12:35.699
in the shower. Singing in the car, like, hakuna

01:12:35.699 --> 01:12:41.960
matata. Exactly right. Exactly. Okay, backstage

01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:48.699
pass or red carpet? Ooh, backstage pass. Okay,

01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:53.100
tell me more. Red carpet is for showing off,

01:12:53.260 --> 01:12:56.359
which is nice, but it's like, ah, it's more social.

01:12:56.420 --> 01:12:59.640
It's more, it doesn't really mean anything. It's

01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:02.239
temporary, but going backstage to actually talk

01:13:02.239 --> 01:13:05.020
to people and tell them, my goodness, you really

01:13:05.020 --> 01:13:07.479
moved me, or that is a whole other thing. That's

01:13:07.479 --> 01:13:10.100
more personal. Yeah, I love that. That's a great

01:13:10.100 --> 01:13:13.520
answer. And lasting. Yes, for sure. Okay, here's

01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:17.180
a rapid fire. And if you don't have an answer

01:13:17.180 --> 01:13:19.140
on these, that's okay. You can always pass if

01:13:19.140 --> 01:13:20.539
you want, but we're just going to get your first

01:13:20.539 --> 01:13:25.659
take on these, okay? Favorite Disney movie? The

01:13:25.659 --> 01:13:28.119
Lion King. Okay, if it wasn't The Lion King,

01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:29.159
because I thought maybe you would answer that

01:13:29.159 --> 01:13:31.199
way, because I totally get it. If it wasn't The

01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:35.039
Lion King. It would be, I like The Little Mermaid.

01:13:35.739 --> 01:13:38.399
So good. Little Mermaid's got great music, too.

01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:42.640
Phenomenal music. And speaking of music... On

01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:47.199
my CD, her voice, that being one of my top two

01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:50.600
favorites, it's a song that Prince Eric sings

01:13:50.600 --> 01:13:54.180
that was cut from the film. But they did use

01:13:54.180 --> 01:13:56.920
it for the stage production. And I knew when

01:13:56.920 --> 01:13:58.399
I heard it, it's a ballad, but I knew immediately

01:13:58.399 --> 01:14:00.020
that I wanted to speed it up and give it a driving

01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:02.439
beat. And it tends to be people's favorite song.

01:14:03.210 --> 01:14:06.510
yeah i love that yeah um and and so with that

01:14:06.510 --> 01:14:13.590
favorite disney song um her voice okay yeah there

01:14:13.590 --> 01:14:16.470
we go it's so descriptive it's it takes place

01:14:16.470 --> 01:14:19.069
right after you know ariel's rescued him and

01:14:19.069 --> 01:14:21.529
he's like did i dream did someone come save me

01:14:21.529 --> 01:14:24.350
was there a girl where is she i keep hearing

01:14:24.350 --> 01:14:27.550
her voice you know it's you know it's it just

01:14:27.550 --> 01:14:29.970
really lays it out beautifully the song the lyrics

01:14:29.970 --> 01:14:33.010
and the music love it Favorite Disney princess?

01:14:34.270 --> 01:14:40.149
My favorite Disney princess would be probably,

01:14:40.350 --> 01:14:47.470
I can't, this is Tiana. Wonderful princess, right?

01:14:48.130 --> 01:14:51.029
Not to show that when it first came out, it didn't

01:14:51.029 --> 01:14:54.489
do super well, but I think it's gained a lot

01:14:54.489 --> 01:14:56.710
more attention and a lot more people who love

01:14:56.710 --> 01:14:59.659
it. Me and my kids, we love it now. I think it's

01:14:59.659 --> 01:15:02.960
so fun. I love the music in that one, too. Really,

01:15:03.100 --> 01:15:06.020
really fun show. Do you, I should ask before

01:15:06.020 --> 01:15:07.779
I ask this next question, do you ever go to Disneyland

01:15:07.779 --> 01:15:10.560
or Disney World? Yes, I spend a lot of time working

01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:12.840
at Disney World. The Festival of the Arts, I

01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:14.500
helped start that whole thing that's become a

01:15:14.500 --> 01:15:16.899
yearly thing. No kidding. Yeah, it's like, you

01:15:16.899 --> 01:15:18.340
know, they have the Food and Wine Festival. They

01:15:18.340 --> 01:15:22.819
have the whole winter thing. We started what's

01:15:22.819 --> 01:15:24.979
called Festival of the Arts about probably almost

01:15:24.979 --> 01:15:27.800
10 years ago now. It happens at the top of the

01:15:27.800 --> 01:15:29.920
year where they would take four different Broadway

01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:33.460
stars and we'd do concerts in the outdoor space

01:15:33.460 --> 01:15:37.640
at Epcot. Yes, which is a cool space. I did it

01:15:37.640 --> 01:15:40.079
for the first five years. Oh, my goodness. Do

01:15:40.079 --> 01:15:43.319
you ever go down there still for it? I don't.

01:15:43.319 --> 01:15:46.060
I don't go unless I'm being sent for it. Okay.

01:15:46.610 --> 01:15:47.810
That's fair. I was going to say, if you're ever

01:15:47.810 --> 01:15:49.630
going down there, I want to know Wayne because

01:15:49.630 --> 01:15:51.670
I'm going to go meet you down there. Yeah, I

01:15:51.670 --> 01:15:54.130
did. I stepped away from it, then I did it again

01:15:54.130 --> 01:15:56.069
last year. And I might do it again. If I do,

01:15:56.130 --> 01:15:57.609
I'll let you know. And I've also been the narrator

01:15:57.609 --> 01:15:59.970
for the winter thing a couple of times. If I

01:15:59.970 --> 01:16:01.930
do, I'll definitely let you know. That was incredible

01:16:01.930 --> 01:16:03.770
to be there. You as a narrator would be awesome.

01:16:04.250 --> 01:16:08.250
Dude, it was so much fun. So when you go down

01:16:08.250 --> 01:16:09.890
there for things like that, do they give you,

01:16:09.890 --> 01:16:12.430
like, kind of special access to go on rides?

01:16:12.550 --> 01:16:14.770
They kind of give you the VIP? It's the worst.

01:16:14.850 --> 01:16:17.909
I get a tour guide. I get a two -bedroom suite.

01:16:18.329 --> 01:16:22.470
I'm allowed to buy up to eight friends down with

01:16:22.470 --> 01:16:25.609
me. It is the best gig in the world. Oh, man,

01:16:25.750 --> 01:16:27.829
it sounds incredible. I tell you, I've seen every

01:16:27.829 --> 01:16:31.890
inch of Disney World in every kind of way. You

01:16:31.890 --> 01:16:33.569
have. Dude, that's one of the things I'm most

01:16:33.569 --> 01:16:35.510
grateful for because that definitely satisfies

01:16:35.510 --> 01:16:38.409
a little boy. I mean, little Alton watching the

01:16:38.409 --> 01:16:41.270
wonderful world of Disney on Sunday nights after

01:16:41.270 --> 01:16:44.079
the Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom. That was it.

01:16:44.180 --> 01:16:45.960
We would watch Mutual Omaha and watch Disney

01:16:45.960 --> 01:16:48.760
World. I was going, wow, one day. And to get

01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:52.079
to do that and find my sisters out and my family

01:16:52.079 --> 01:16:54.720
and go, look at us. It's happening. We're at

01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:59.439
Disney World. Dreams come true. Yeah, no question.

01:16:59.579 --> 01:17:01.840
So with that, related to that, what's your favorite

01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:05.039
Disney ride? Ooh, my favorite Disney ride is

01:17:05.039 --> 01:17:10.659
their latest one. I got to ride it the first

01:17:10.659 --> 01:17:16.539
week it opened. What's it called? It's based

01:17:16.539 --> 01:17:20.840
on a movie. Guardians. I had to write it the

01:17:20.840 --> 01:17:25.180
first week it opened. The first time I wrote

01:17:25.180 --> 01:17:28.399
it, I was done for the day. Have you ever written

01:17:28.399 --> 01:17:32.859
it? Yes. It doesn't just go like this. The whole

01:17:32.859 --> 01:17:36.159
thing turns. I was not ready. It's the first

01:17:36.159 --> 01:17:40.600
ride we did with my family. Because I had guests,

01:17:40.699 --> 01:17:43.819
I had to suffer through it. You can't go on the

01:17:43.819 --> 01:17:45.380
rides or get to the front of the line without

01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:49.260
me. But then when I went back last year, I said,

01:17:49.319 --> 01:17:51.579
let me try it again. And I was like, I love it.

01:17:51.819 --> 01:17:55.000
I took some Dramamine before. There you go. And

01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:56.899
I was like, this is the most thrilling thing

01:17:56.899 --> 01:17:59.239
I've ever done. So that's my favorite. That's

01:17:59.239 --> 01:18:02.260
a great one. We had a really fun experience last

01:18:02.260 --> 01:18:04.960
time we went to Disney World with our two little

01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:08.140
daughters who were 10 and 6. And we had been

01:18:08.140 --> 01:18:09.800
trying to go on it all day, but we went during

01:18:09.800 --> 01:18:11.319
a time of year where it just had rained a lot.

01:18:11.420 --> 01:18:13.579
I mean, it rained incessantly on us that day.

01:18:13.939 --> 01:18:16.119
And Guardians had kept closing down when we were

01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:17.779
going to go. And they were opening it back up,

01:18:17.819 --> 01:18:19.560
and we tried to go, and it closed down. And so

01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:21.760
it's at the end of the day. The park is five

01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:23.640
minutes from closing, and they open it back up.

01:18:23.949 --> 01:18:27.090
yeah and so my one daughter my 10 year old and

01:18:27.090 --> 01:18:29.850
i get in line because my wife is like our six

01:18:29.850 --> 01:18:31.510
-year -old she was toe she was taking her on

01:18:31.510 --> 01:18:34.449
the uh on the bus back we're like hey we gotta

01:18:34.449 --> 01:18:36.770
see if we can get it and so we do and so we're

01:18:36.770 --> 01:18:39.149
going on it after hours by this point time you

01:18:39.149 --> 01:18:41.069
know the park's been closed for 45 minutes almost

01:18:41.069 --> 01:18:44.689
an hour and we get to go on it and we just loved

01:18:44.689 --> 01:18:47.050
it it's such a great memory that she and i have

01:18:47.050 --> 01:18:49.529
now going on that ride and the music all of it

01:18:49.529 --> 01:18:53.779
together yes I got another little story, though,

01:18:53.779 --> 01:18:56.140
that was really great. When they first opened,

01:18:56.399 --> 01:19:00.739
what's the futuristic land? Avatar Land, that

01:19:00.739 --> 01:19:03.560
whole thing. Oh, yeah. I got to go on that before

01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.239
it opened, too, because I was down to doing,

01:19:06.439 --> 01:19:08.119
because I've done, especially arts, I've done

01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:11.560
some speaking gigs for teachers, because Disney's

01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:14.140
really good about honoring people, and I was

01:19:14.140 --> 01:19:18.199
brought in to praise teachers, and it happened

01:19:18.199 --> 01:19:19.720
to be around when they were just about to open

01:19:19.720 --> 01:19:22.319
it. And they almost didn't let us do it. They

01:19:22.319 --> 01:19:23.779
were like, you know what, we shouldn't do this,

01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:26.880
but okay. So we got permission to ride the, what

01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:28.600
is it called, Flight of Passage? What is it?

01:19:28.720 --> 01:19:30.439
Yeah, Flight of Passage, yeah. Oh, dude, that

01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:34.979
was like, yeah, that's another one. That probably

01:19:34.979 --> 01:19:37.460
came to your mind. Yeah, you feel like you're

01:19:37.460 --> 01:19:39.739
riding a Banshee when they do it. The way that

01:19:39.739 --> 01:19:42.180
they have it set up, the smells they have come

01:19:42.180 --> 01:19:44.220
when you're doing it, it is incredible. Yeah,

01:19:44.239 --> 01:19:47.779
it's magnificent. Yeah, such a great ride. Yeah.

01:19:48.140 --> 01:19:50.340
Yeah, I love those. Okay, a couple more here.

01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:53.199
Besides Mufasa, what's the favorite role you've

01:19:53.199 --> 01:19:56.460
ever played? It was Mr. in the Color Purple.

01:19:57.319 --> 01:20:01.420
Okay. Yeah, because Mr. really helped me heal

01:20:01.420 --> 01:20:05.180
my relationship with my father. Playing Mr. and

01:20:05.180 --> 01:20:07.220
that whole time period, I realized it helped

01:20:07.220 --> 01:20:09.079
me. I'd already done a lot of healing, but I

01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:11.659
realized, oh, wow, so many of our fathers had

01:20:11.659 --> 01:20:14.520
such limited resources in terms of healing outside

01:20:14.520 --> 01:20:19.840
of alcohol, the bar. sports you know men a lot

01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:22.260
of men are raised to really tap into the other

01:20:22.260 --> 01:20:24.520
parts of themselves and so it really helped me

01:20:24.520 --> 01:20:27.699
give some distance of like wow i have compassion

01:20:27.699 --> 01:20:30.979
a deeper compassion for him and men of his time

01:20:30.979 --> 01:20:35.840
yeah totally i love that that answer um okay

01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:39.199
two more um One, it might be a little bit deeper,

01:20:39.260 --> 01:20:40.560
so it might not be rapid fire really easily,

01:20:40.659 --> 01:20:44.460
but how are you saying yes and in your life right

01:20:44.460 --> 01:20:46.699
now? Because obviously that's our podcast, Yes

01:20:46.699 --> 01:20:49.119
And. How are you saying yes and in your life

01:20:49.119 --> 01:20:53.560
right now? In agreeing to direct Ragtime, to

01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:56.359
make my directorial debut, I directed Ragtime,

01:20:56.479 --> 01:20:59.140
a symphonic version of it, which is different

01:20:59.140 --> 01:21:01.739
because the symphonic version is the focus on

01:21:01.739 --> 01:21:04.329
the magnificent music. so i did a lot of staging

01:21:04.329 --> 01:21:07.050
i got to design what it's going to look like

01:21:07.050 --> 01:21:10.270
and the projections and screens to to set where

01:21:10.270 --> 01:21:13.989
we are it was very fulfilling and but i was also

01:21:13.989 --> 01:21:16.350
playing cold house i was directing and starring

01:21:16.350 --> 01:21:18.989
in it which was a lot i remember thinking you

01:21:18.989 --> 01:21:21.270
know this is great to sing this music again after

01:21:21.270 --> 01:21:24.270
25 years and that i still can sing it and hit

01:21:24.270 --> 01:21:26.930
those notes after 25 years but i really would

01:21:26.930 --> 01:21:28.890
rather just kind of stood back and watch the

01:21:28.890 --> 01:21:32.590
whole thing come together then Last fall, I got

01:21:32.590 --> 01:21:35.909
a call from somebody that I did my first equity

01:21:35.909 --> 01:21:37.970
show with many years ago, who's now running a

01:21:37.970 --> 01:21:40.449
theater and said, would you be interested in

01:21:40.449 --> 01:21:47.689
directing Ragtime? And I was like, yes. And what

01:21:47.689 --> 01:21:49.810
do I need to learn? And I said, I've not directed

01:21:49.810 --> 01:21:53.670
for a theater before. I've not dealt with, I

01:21:53.670 --> 01:21:56.829
mean, I have dealt with different. when I did

01:21:56.829 --> 01:21:59.329
the concert version, but this is different. You're

01:21:59.329 --> 01:22:02.329
talking about set design and this and that. And

01:22:02.329 --> 01:22:04.310
he goes, working with first -time directors,

01:22:04.529 --> 01:22:06.529
we love nurturing them. It's something we do.

01:22:07.289 --> 01:22:09.909
I appreciate your expertise, not only with your

01:22:09.909 --> 01:22:12.149
journey with Ragtime, but your whole career.

01:22:12.210 --> 01:22:13.689
And I thought, wow, it's a chance for me to take

01:22:13.689 --> 01:22:16.810
my overall experience, the accumulation of my

01:22:16.810 --> 01:22:20.430
life, and put it into art. And it's been very

01:22:20.430 --> 01:22:22.439
challenging because I'm learning a lot. I have

01:22:22.439 --> 01:22:24.060
a different appreciation for what it takes to

01:22:24.060 --> 01:22:26.180
put a show together. I've never been in so many

01:22:26.180 --> 01:22:29.000
meetings in my entire life. And I'm very much

01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:32.500
an introvert. So, like, I'm going, yes, and,

01:22:32.619 --> 01:22:35.180
and then I'm coming out of myself. Yeah. Even

01:22:35.180 --> 01:22:37.060
with this. Like, normally, you know, I'm a busy

01:22:37.060 --> 01:22:40.699
guy. And I thought, past, yes. I have an opportunity

01:22:40.699 --> 01:22:44.239
to share. Yes, and. So, even this is something

01:22:44.239 --> 01:22:48.600
that is into that category. Yeah, great answer.

01:22:48.800 --> 01:22:51.180
Okay, here's our last rapid -fire question. What

01:22:51.180 --> 01:22:53.460
is a question I should have asked you that I

01:22:53.460 --> 01:22:58.539
didn't? Or any story you had wanted to share

01:22:58.539 --> 01:23:00.600
that we didn't get to? That's a good question.

01:23:01.739 --> 01:23:09.920
I guess something that you could have asked me

01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:11.640
that you didn't. Something kind of really basic,

01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:17.119
but like, am I happy? Are you happy? Yeah. And

01:23:17.119 --> 01:23:22.600
the answer is I am joyful. Oh, I love that. Because

01:23:22.600 --> 01:23:24.739
I feel like happiness comes and goes, but I feel

01:23:24.739 --> 01:23:27.159
like the accumulation of my experiences have

01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:31.960
taught me for my life that joy is more important

01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:35.439
than happiness. That joy is something I can,

01:23:35.479 --> 01:23:37.619
no matter how challenging the day, I can detach

01:23:37.619 --> 01:23:39.979
from it and go, let me tap back into my joy.

01:23:40.899 --> 01:23:42.640
As opposed to like, what's going to make me happy

01:23:42.640 --> 01:23:45.359
right now? No, let me tap into that reservoir

01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:48.560
of joy and sort of like gratitude, having that

01:23:48.560 --> 01:23:52.739
at my foundation. I can rest in that. I can lay

01:23:52.739 --> 01:23:54.520
in that. I can find peace and solace in that

01:23:54.520 --> 01:23:58.189
and then get back up and go back at it. Yeah,

01:23:58.250 --> 01:24:02.449
that's such a wonderfully put. I love the way

01:24:02.449 --> 01:24:03.909
that you describe that and the difference between

01:24:03.909 --> 01:24:07.289
joy and happiness. Terrific answer. All right.

01:24:07.289 --> 01:24:09.710
Well, as we finish up here, what we always ask

01:24:09.710 --> 01:24:13.189
our guests for is what are three actionable takeaways

01:24:13.189 --> 01:24:14.590
that somebody could put into effect in their

01:24:14.590 --> 01:24:18.710
life today or this week? So what are three actionable

01:24:18.710 --> 01:24:24.210
takeaways? Dream. Allow yourself to dream. Dreams

01:24:24.210 --> 01:24:27.850
are a gateway to things actually happening. Creating

01:24:27.850 --> 01:24:31.409
space for things to happen, for your wildest

01:24:31.409 --> 01:24:33.750
dreams to come true. I would say tap into your

01:24:33.750 --> 01:24:37.250
courage. Courage is a thing that I respect most

01:24:37.250 --> 01:24:40.050
in anyone. Courage to be who you are. Courage

01:24:40.050 --> 01:24:43.489
to tell the truth. Courage to tell your truth

01:24:43.489 --> 01:24:46.850
and live your truth. And I would say action.

01:24:47.289 --> 01:24:49.409
Putting those things into action. You can sit

01:24:49.409 --> 01:24:51.590
and talk about it, but at some point you have

01:24:51.590 --> 01:24:54.569
to do something for things to change, for things

01:24:54.569 --> 01:24:59.579
to shift. I love it. Courage action. Great takeaways.

01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:02.840
Alton, it's been such a pleasure visiting with

01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:04.520
you. And thank you so much for taking the time

01:25:04.520 --> 01:25:07.180
to visit with us to share who you are and your

01:25:07.180 --> 01:25:09.479
experiences with our audience. I think people

01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:13.100
will be so richly blessed that listen. Anybody

01:25:13.100 --> 01:25:15.399
who's listening, pick up his book. You've got

01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:18.220
to read his book. It really was a joy to read.

01:25:18.479 --> 01:25:21.520
Honestly, buy the book and listen to the audio

01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:23.579
book because hearing him read the book too is

01:25:23.579 --> 01:25:25.939
an experience in and of itself that I just absolutely

01:25:25.939 --> 01:25:28.319
love. So thank you so much for your time. your

01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:30.140
kindness for your generosity and for inspiring

01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:32.399
many, many people. Well, let me, one more thing.

01:25:32.600 --> 01:25:35.720
You can get my book at altonfitzgeraldwhite .com.

01:25:36.039 --> 01:25:38.340
If you get it from my website, because I now

01:25:38.340 --> 01:25:39.960
own the rights to my book, which is a tremendous

01:25:39.960 --> 01:25:44.239
thing as an author, I will sign it, personalize

01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:46.340
it, and send it to you. Same as you would pay

01:25:46.340 --> 01:25:51.340
on Amazon, but you get my signature and it's

01:25:51.340 --> 01:25:55.539
sent to you postage free. Also, my Disney CD.

01:25:56.270 --> 01:25:57.789
It's available on our website. You can get a

01:25:57.789 --> 01:25:59.729
signed copy of that, Disney My Way, where I've

01:25:59.729 --> 01:26:01.710
taken these Disney songs and given them my own

01:26:01.710 --> 01:26:03.949
arrangements, which has been really, really fun.

01:26:04.229 --> 01:26:07.609
And I want to leave one last thing. Yes. No matter

01:26:07.609 --> 01:26:10.489
how discouraged you may get, no matter how lonely

01:26:10.489 --> 01:26:13.270
or isolated you ever may feel, just like Mufasa

01:26:13.270 --> 01:26:16.069
says to Simba in The Lion King, if you remember

01:26:16.069 --> 01:26:18.829
those who came before you, you will also remember

01:26:18.829 --> 01:27:00.409
that... Watching oh Absolutely wonderful. So

01:27:00.409 --> 01:27:03.550
moving. Thank you for sharing that with us. Well,

01:27:03.569 --> 01:27:05.989
what a great opportunity we had today to speak

01:27:05.989 --> 01:27:10.029
with Alton. What an inspiration that he is. And

01:27:10.029 --> 01:27:13.510
some things that he shared with us that honestly

01:27:13.510 --> 01:27:16.689
we had no idea going into it. And we appreciated

01:27:16.689 --> 01:27:19.750
his vulnerability and willingness to share some

01:27:19.750 --> 01:27:22.350
really personal things with us today. And I think

01:27:22.350 --> 01:27:23.829
there's a lot of lessons that can be learned

01:27:23.829 --> 01:27:26.029
from somebody that grew up in a really tough,

01:27:26.069 --> 01:27:28.710
difficult situation. grew up in the projects,

01:27:28.869 --> 01:27:31.989
alcoholic father, dealt with some sexual abuse,

01:27:32.170 --> 01:27:35.649
and yet he found a way to push past those things,

01:27:35.710 --> 01:27:39.050
found encouragement through mentors, through

01:27:39.050 --> 01:27:41.210
teachers, through people who helped him to see

01:27:41.210 --> 01:27:45.079
what his passion was, what he... was good at

01:27:45.079 --> 01:27:47.979
give him that encouragement put the work in both

01:27:47.979 --> 01:27:51.399
in therapy and in the work towards honing the

01:27:51.399 --> 01:27:54.760
craft that he was in to be Mufasa on Lion King

01:27:54.760 --> 01:27:57.180
in Lion King for more than 4 ,000 performances

01:27:57.180 --> 01:27:59.960
what an inspiration to anybody going through

01:27:59.960 --> 01:28:02.020
something difficult through a hard season in

01:28:02.020 --> 01:28:05.159
life that there is light at the end of the tunnel

01:28:05.159 --> 01:28:08.489
that we can Keep a positive outlook. We can accept

01:28:08.489 --> 01:28:11.109
the fact that things are hard and know that going

01:28:11.109 --> 01:28:12.869
through those things are difficult. Accept the

01:28:12.869 --> 01:28:14.989
emotions that come when things are really difficult

01:28:14.989 --> 01:28:19.630
and also have the hope for something more and

01:28:19.630 --> 01:28:22.829
have the hope that we can find the thing that

01:28:22.829 --> 01:28:25.609
continues to bring us joy and happiness. I also

01:28:25.609 --> 01:28:27.859
think there's so many lessons for him. from him

01:28:27.859 --> 01:28:31.119
in the endurance and perseverance more than 4

01:28:31.119 --> 01:28:33.659
000 performances in a show like lion king as

01:28:33.659 --> 01:28:38.439
the king mufasa really shows a great depth of

01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:43.359
of character of ability to endure to show up

01:28:43.359 --> 01:28:47.079
day after day and bring the same emotional beats

01:28:47.079 --> 01:28:50.300
to bring the same passion to what he was doing

01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:52.699
And I think one of the lessons we have there

01:28:52.699 --> 01:28:55.060
as well is finding moments to find other passions

01:28:55.060 --> 01:28:58.840
as well, to get the break, to not just have it

01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:04.159
become too routine. And that there's real benefit

01:29:04.159 --> 01:29:06.560
in that, in finding other things that you can

01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:10.430
come back renewed. and we really appreciate his

01:29:10.430 --> 01:29:13.390
time and spending with us. I strongly encourage

01:29:13.390 --> 01:29:16.649
you to read his book, My Pride. What a wonderful

01:29:16.649 --> 01:29:18.989
book it was, and it goes into far greater depth

01:29:18.989 --> 01:29:21.710
as to his journey that he had, both growing up

01:29:21.710 --> 01:29:24.090
when he was in elementary school, junior high

01:29:24.090 --> 01:29:25.670
school, and high school, what his journey was

01:29:25.670 --> 01:29:28.369
like to get to Broadway, and then throughout

01:29:28.369 --> 01:29:30.909
his experiences on Broadway and further lessons

01:29:30.909 --> 01:29:33.710
that he's learned. Again, what a joy it was to

01:29:33.710 --> 01:29:38.270
have him on with us. As you leave this conversation,

01:29:38.630 --> 01:29:42.010
remember that yes, the past can hurt and you

01:29:42.010 --> 01:29:44.250
can either run from it or you can learn from

01:29:44.250 --> 01:29:47.949
it. So here's to learning and finding joy in

01:29:47.949 --> 01:29:49.750
the journey. See you real soon.