Inside Out and Why Nobody Listens | BJ Oldroyd

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My first experience with Disney was when I was

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three years old. And that's when I went to Disney

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World with my family and evidently got lost.

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No way! They spent a number of hours trying to

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find me. I had made my way apparently to the

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entry of the park and was trying to get back

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to the hotel. But then she asks the dad to weigh

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in. And then suddenly you see inside his head,

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right? And you see all the little emotions. And

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this is what they're saying to each other inside

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his head. Oh, she's looking at us. What did she

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say? What? Oh, sorry, sir. No one was listening

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because he just completely wasn't listening.

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Right. How often do we fall into that where he

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says most people do not listen with the intent

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to understand. They listen with the intent to

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reply. You know, we're basically shutting somebody

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out as if we were watching a hockey game. If

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we're simply listening with the intent to reply.

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It's an ongoing struggle for me, honestly, because

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I've unfortunately I have a face that doesn't

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hide my emotions very well. So. You know, when

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I get feedback from a manager or if I disagreed

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with something, they usually knew. And I wouldn't

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say anything. It's just like, oh, your face did

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something. It's a human doing human. You have

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to have that approach. So in the right context,

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know when it's okay to remove the business element

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and just talk as people. Welcome to Yes and Land,

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where we say yes to the reality of yesterday

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and today. And we say and to the possibility,

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growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Do you ever

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look at someone and wonder what is going on inside

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their head? That is the question that opens Inside

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Out and is going to be the basis for our conversation

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today about communication. which fits so well

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with this wonderful movie, Inside Out. And today

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we're visiting with an excellent guest. Very

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excited to have a conversation with him, BJ Oldroyd,

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who has a great love for Disney. And when we

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prep for this podcast, I just want to soak up

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all of his knowledge and information about everything

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Disney and Disney parks and all the great things.

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So super excited for a conversation today, BJ.

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Thank you. I appreciate you having me. All right,

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so our topic today that we're going to discuss

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is about communication. So we're going to dive

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into a little bit more about what that means,

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what communication issues that you see people

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have, what holds people back from having effective

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communication. We'll lace that through kind of

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the lens of Inside Out. However, before we get

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there, let's lay the foundation for who BJ is.

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Take us all the way back. Take us to, like, young,

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taut BJ. Where did you come from? How did you

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gain a love for Disney? And then what took you

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to where you are today, being at an awesome company

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where you've been in kind of the tech startup

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world for quite a while, rock and rolling stuff

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there, helping to lead people through communication,

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obviously a super important part of what you

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do, no doubt. So take us all the way back. Well,

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if we're going all the way back, it actually

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is a Disney tie -in. My first experience with

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Disney was when I was three years old. And I

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do actually remember bits and pieces of it. And

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that's when I went to Disney World with my family

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and evidently got lost. No way. They spent a

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number of hours trying to find me. I had made

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my way apparently to the entry of the park and

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was trying to get back to the hotel. So some

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workers and cast members found me, put me in

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the lost and found my mom. My mom came in. after

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they made some announcement that they had found,

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you know, a lost child. So she knew that was

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me. And then the first thing I said to her when

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I walked in, she's like, mom, you were lost.

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And I blame the whole thing on her. So that kind

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of actually pushed me off Disney for a while.

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Cause anytime we went anywhere, I had to wear

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like the backpack with the leash and stuff. Cause

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I couldn't be trusted the worst. Yeah. It's,

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it was a good time. And they, today what I've

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heard they do now, and it's a little bit, they

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don't advertise it because. for obvious reasons

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but apparently what they do now is they have

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like superior superior facial recognition software

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i can't even say it um so that when there is

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a lost kid like they can identify very quickly

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where that child is at because of all the cameras

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they have and because they're capturing people's

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pictures initially and like they helped really

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develop apparently behind the scenes a lot of

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that technology that a lot of places use today

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for facial recognition Because they have obvious

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needs for it, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, safety

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is the first, most highest priority that Disney

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has. 100%. You have tens of thousands of people

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going to your park every single day. But this

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was also the joyous time of the 80s. Oh, yeah.

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So that did not exist back then. It was very

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much like, hopefully a cast member finds you

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and hopefully they take you before you walk out

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into the street. Yeah. But now they still sell

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those backpacks with leashes, but they're for

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adults. So it's for like the wayward husband

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that goes and has to buy the things. So it still

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makes some money off of it. Yeah, totally. Totally.

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Yeah, I moved to Washington State. I was born

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in Provo, Utah, but I moved to Washington State

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when I was seven. Right in Washington. It's a

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little town called Chehalis. Chehalis. Yeah.

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And where's that at? In the middle of nowhere.

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Okay, fair. It's a pretty small town, but I love

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it. It gave me a really... really big appreciation

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for that kind of small town feel. Yeah. And an

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appreciation for when I did go into, you know,

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like Portland or Seattle, like my dad and I would

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go in and visit Seattle and do the Seattle Mariners

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games and stuff. That was our thing. So fun.

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They had a great stadium now too, by the way.

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Isn't it incredible? Yeah. The retractable roof,

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like the whole thing moves off and then moves

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back on. It's like a single unit. It's like the

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scale of it. The first time I saw it, I was just

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like. amazed at how big the scale of that. Oh,

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it's massive. Yeah. And it's honestly, it's quiet,

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which is surprising to me. Like you, if you're

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paying attention to the game and they start to

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close the roof, you don't realize it until it's

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halfway done. It's like, Oh, okay. That's something's

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happening. It's and there's the, the butt, like

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the brick work, all this stuff, like the chandelier

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they have behind home plate. That's just a bunch

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of actual like baseball bats made out of glass.

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And that's the chandelier. Then it's just the

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detail they put into it. It was awesome, especially

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I grew up going to the Kingdome, which was the

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opposite of everything that that new stadium

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represents, just a big piece of concrete. But,

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yeah, it was amazing. And it was a great time

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to spend with my dad. He was a surgeon growing

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up, so I didn't get a chance to spend a ton of

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time with him. So those little moments that we

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had were nice. Did you guys go to any basketball

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games at the time? The Seattle Supersonics? No.

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Back in the day, which now are the Oklahoma City

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Thunder. Wait, they're bringing them back, though.

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I heard that they were. I was going to ask you.

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They are bringing them back. Is that legit? They

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actually are like, is it? They have to get some

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buyers. Okay. But they've approved the expansion.

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Oh, man. So I think it's going to be for Vegas

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and for Seattle. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

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So now that I'm older. I don't know why we never

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did. I didn't go to any Seahawks games either,

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and I'm a huge Seahawks fan. Oh, goodness. So,

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yeah, I don't know why that didn't happen. So

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you're living on a high right now. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. Super Bowl champions. Oh, my goodness.

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That was good, especially because the Patriots

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can't. Oh, yeah, amazing. That's a whole different

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story. Y 'all were trouncing people throughout

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the playoffs, just trouncing them. I'm a Niners

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fan, and, man, y 'all made us look bad, and we

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weren't a bad team. You made us look horrible.

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Brock Purdy is one of the most underappreciated

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quarterbacks in the league, in my opinion. Yeah.

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And when they did make it, I think it was the...

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I can't remember if it was the championship game

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or the Super Bowl. I wanted to see him win. Yeah.

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Like the Mr. Irrelevant taking that team to go

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win the Super Bowl. I was like, yeah, that needs

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to happen. It would be like epic story, right?

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Oh, yeah. Mr. Irrelevant doing that. That's what

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you make Disney movies out of. That's exactly

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right. Perfect. Because there definitely would

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be, right? We've got plenty of like Disney sports

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great moments, don't we? Yeah, there's some great

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ones out there. Absolutely. So you were mostly

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a Seattle sports fan growing up, or did you also

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have some Portland stuff? Because you guys sometimes

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went down to Portland. Portland was more so family.

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I didn't really equate that to any sporting.

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And they really only had the Trailblazers at

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that point, and they were terrible. Of course,

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the Sonics weren't much better. None of the time.

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They had a couple years in there where they had

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Gary Payton and Sean Kemp and stuff. And Sean

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Kemp was very exciting. Oh, yeah. I mean, he

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was super fun to watch, and the glove, Gary Payton,

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was amazing. And they had some really down years,

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and that's why they got Kevin Durant, because

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they had some really down years, so they were

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really not very good at all. It just makes me

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even more wish they would have stayed there.

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Yeah. Because being able to, because OKC won

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last year, thinking that that could have been

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a Seattle banner, especially knowing that the

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Seahawks won, too. It's like, we're just going

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to raise all the banners now? Seriously. Who's

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the Sounders, the soccer team? They also won.

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Oh, the Seattle Sounders, yeah. Yeah, they won

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the league. So it was a good year. That's good

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times to be a Seattle sports fan. Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, here in Utah, we don't have quite that

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same luck. RSL won a number of years ago, but

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that's it. You go for something to do on a Friday

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night. That's pretty much why. Yeah, that's exactly

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it. That's exactly it. So you grow up in this

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kind of small town, Washington. Then where do

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you go from there? So graduated high school from

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there. and then moved back to Utah, and then

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subsequently went on an LDS mission to Lansing,

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Michigan. Lansing as opposed to East Lansing?

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Or is it one and the same? Because East Lansing

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is Michigan State, right? Isn't that where Michigan

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State's at? Yeah. I didn't serve on Michigan

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State, but I served in the area that surrounded

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Michigan State. So, yeah, they're neighboring

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towns. But it was technically the Lansing mission,

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even though everything regarding the mission

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was in East Lansing. you know you take it for

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what it's worth yeah but yeah we covered pretty

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much all of the lower peninsula except for detroit

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and kind of some of the suburbs around detroit

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um i made the mistake of showing up that first

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uh first day and after i you know changed out

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of my proselyting clothes put on the hoodie that

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my dad had given me, which is a Michigan. Oh

00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:09.820
boy. Hoodie. That was a problem. Oh boy. Yeah.

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That would be a problem. It made it about a week

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before it got shipped back home and became my

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dad's favorite hoodie because I was not allowed

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to wear it because people would yell at me and

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things would be bad. Yeah, no doubt. But yeah,

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it's a real, I mean, that is a serious rivalry.

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Oh yeah. It's interesting because you know, you

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have that kind of rivalry where there is, you

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just can't wear something like that in those

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places. Whereas here, where we're at, Utah and

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BYU are huge rivals. It obviously is, but it's

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not that way. People are wearing BYU and Utah

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stuff all the time. Families are divided all

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the time. It's all over the place, right? Well,

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you have those jerseys and stuff where it's like

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half Utah, half BYU. It's the whole families

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divided aspect. You can have fun with it. For

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sure. And over there, I was there when Michigan

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State basketball was... like going to the Sweet

00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:00.720
16, Elite 8, and all that stuff. And we were

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actually told we had to be in our apartments

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on game nights by usually like 6 o 'clock because

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if they won or if they lost, there would be a

00:11:09.580 --> 00:11:11.159
riot. They would turn over cars. There would

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be burning couches in the street. And I lived

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across the street from campus. So it was one

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of those things like, okay, well, if you hear

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stuff, don't look outside. It was interesting,

00:11:21.379 --> 00:11:23.620
but it was an amazing experience. What was your

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favorite thing about that area? East Lansing

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or just Michigan? Just Michigan. Your experience

00:11:31.330 --> 00:11:32.950
in Michigan. What was your favorite thing? Oh,

00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:34.850
man. The people, first and foremost. They were

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just some of the nicest I've ever met. But honestly,

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the, like, the nature aspect. I mean, it's just,

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there's not a lot. It made me feel like I was

00:11:47.830 --> 00:11:49.889
back in my hometown of Chehalis because it was,

00:11:49.970 --> 00:11:51.769
you didn't get a lot of, like, the changing leaves

00:11:51.769 --> 00:11:53.269
and everything because it's Washington. They

00:11:53.269 --> 00:11:56.440
have the evergreens and stuff. But. We had some

00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.220
of the rolling hills and not a lot of large towns,

00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:01.679
especially some of my areas were in the upper

00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:06.960
peninsula where I'm covering two counties, and

00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:10.039
the town that I live in is 6 ,000 people. So

00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:14.039
it felt very small town. You walk down the street,

00:12:14.139 --> 00:12:15.580
you know everybody's name. You've talked to them

00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:17.100
seven times already, and you've only lived there

00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:20.139
for a month, stuff like that. And then spring

00:12:20.139 --> 00:12:24.919
and fall, all the leaves changing. Saw fireflies

00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:26.360
there for the first time in my life. That was

00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.740
very cool. Yeah. So just little things like that.

00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:30.759
We don't have those here. No. Just little things

00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.639
like that. It just made it to where you can kind

00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.519
of quiet your mind down. And it was very easy

00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.379
to do that because your environment made that

00:12:39.379 --> 00:12:42.200
easier. Yeah. So I really love that about Michigan.

00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:45.159
Yeah. Makes sense. When did you start to regain

00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.179
your love for Disney? After your initial getting

00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:51.440
lost terrible experience. So it was actually,

00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:56.190
I made, one of my best friends uh i met him when

00:12:56.190 --> 00:12:59.090
i started my first startup um started working

00:12:59.090 --> 00:13:00.870
a company called thumbtack that was based out

00:13:00.870 --> 00:13:02.450
of san francisco but they decided to open a salt

00:13:02.450 --> 00:13:05.289
lake office and we were one of the first 20 people

00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:08.970
that they hired and he and his wife have a love

00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:10.669
for disney and you know we've been talking about

00:13:10.669 --> 00:13:12.169
like oh yeah i haven't been there in years and

00:13:12.169 --> 00:13:14.370
he hadn't really either and i told him the story

00:13:14.370 --> 00:13:17.470
about me getting lost and i'd always had a love

00:13:17.470 --> 00:13:21.250
for like disney movies you know like i i i joked

00:13:21.250 --> 00:13:22.799
about the fact that I was going to sneak out

00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:24.399
of the MTC so I could go see Pirates of the Caribbean

00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.080
because it came out five days after I left. The

00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.620
first one? The first one. Okay, yeah. So I was

00:13:29.620 --> 00:13:31.279
very close, but my parents were serving as a

00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:34.100
branch presidency in the MTC, so I probably shouldn't

00:13:34.100 --> 00:13:37.440
have done that. But, yeah, we just started talking

00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:38.620
about stuff, and he's like, oh, we're going to

00:13:38.620 --> 00:13:41.500
buy an annual pass. Next time we go, do you want

00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:45.720
to come? And I'm like, sure, why not? What's

00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.720
the worst that could happen? So he bought the

00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:49.220
pass. His wife bought the pass. We had one other

00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.519
friend that also bought one. And there was a

00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:52.840
group of five of us that just went down there.

00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:59.220
And I remember walking in to the park and just

00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:03.139
like, oh, okay, I'm home now. It was almost immediate.

00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:07.139
No kidding. I just felt like the real world kind

00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:09.100
of melted away for a while. I knew I was there

00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:11.580
just to have a good time. I was there to not

00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:13.100
only spend time with my friends that I knew,

00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:14.500
but some people that came with us that I didn't

00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:19.019
know. And it was a blast. And by the time I think

00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.450
we got to the second day. Because back then you

00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:23.330
could convert your ticket if you had a three

00:14:23.330 --> 00:14:26.110
-day or more park hopper. You could convert your

00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:29.590
ticket into an annual pass. And so we went the

00:14:29.590 --> 00:14:31.470
next morning, and I converted mine into an annual

00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:34.669
pass. In that one -year time frame, I think we

00:14:34.669 --> 00:14:38.509
went four times. Wow. So it definitely was worth

00:14:38.509 --> 00:14:42.190
the purchase. What year was that? That was 2015,

00:14:45.009 --> 00:14:50.850
2016. And I've gone. To Disneyland probably at

00:14:50.850 --> 00:14:53.269
least once a year since then but I've been you

00:14:53.269 --> 00:14:56.429
know to Disney World a handful of times And I've

00:14:56.429 --> 00:14:57.809
had the chance to go to Disneyland Paris twice

00:14:57.809 --> 00:15:01.110
amazing and yeah, I got the other ones under

00:15:01.110 --> 00:15:04.509
my belt now Yeah, yeah when when it connects

00:15:04.509 --> 00:15:08.809
for somebody it does yes connects and There is

00:15:08.809 --> 00:15:11.470
I mean say as they say I guess it's cliche, but

00:15:11.470 --> 00:15:13.950
there's something magical It's true. I remember

00:15:13.950 --> 00:15:15.950
the last one of the last trips. I went on it

00:15:15.950 --> 00:15:18.220
was just me and my buddy Jeff And he used to

00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:19.919
live in California. He was part of, if you know,

00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:23.860
like the biker gang look, the cuts that they

00:15:23.860 --> 00:15:25.879
have. He had a bunch of friends that they made

00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.440
those, but specifically for Disney. So it was

00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:30.120
like the castle on the back. They had their Disney

00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.820
nicknames on their chests and stuff. They got

00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:35.159
pins all over them. It was really cool. So he's

00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:40.539
very much a Disney guy. And I had sadly gotten

00:15:40.539 --> 00:15:42.080
food poisoning the night before, so I wasn't

00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.220
in the best of moods. And I remember we're walking

00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:47.809
around the park. The firework show was about

00:15:47.809 --> 00:15:50.169
to start. You know, the sun's going down and

00:15:50.169 --> 00:15:51.950
everything. And the music started and the fireworks

00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:55.009
started. Instantly, I felt better. And I remember

00:15:55.009 --> 00:15:56.809
actually turning around and looking and be like,

00:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.370
this, this is why I come here. And he's just

00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:02.549
like, I know, right? And then I remember where

00:16:02.549 --> 00:16:03.789
we went and got some food or something after

00:16:03.789 --> 00:16:05.750
that. So it was just one of those moments where

00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:08.250
it's just like, yeah, just has that ability to

00:16:08.250 --> 00:16:09.950
make everything just a little bit better. For

00:16:09.950 --> 00:16:15.750
sure. No question. So you then end up. You were

00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:18.129
studying history, right, in school? Yep. And

00:16:18.129 --> 00:16:20.169
then you end up getting connected into a startup,

00:16:20.289 --> 00:16:22.210
and then you kind of get into the startup world.

00:16:23.769 --> 00:16:25.610
Taking us to kind of the topic that we're at,

00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:30.470
what in your years in startups, in tech companies,

00:16:30.809 --> 00:16:33.970
in the leadership positions you've had, what

00:16:33.970 --> 00:16:36.110
have you noticed on our topic of communication?

00:16:36.309 --> 00:16:37.769
What have you noticed as some of the biggest

00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:41.129
problems that people have when it comes to communication?

00:16:43.090 --> 00:16:44.509
There's a couple things that come to mind with

00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:47.700
that one. The main reason why those are the first

00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:49.360
things that I thought of is because I was guilty

00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.000
of them when I, you know, first kind of started

00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.220
getting my feet wet in the startup world. You

00:16:55.220 --> 00:16:57.320
know, I started with Thumbtack, that first startup,

00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:03.039
after I left school for history. And I was, you

00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:04.319
know, just a guy that was working on the phone.

00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:07.599
And so I went to work every day. It's just like,

00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:08.960
I don't really have to. This doesn't apply to

00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:10.140
me. This doesn't really pertain to me. People

00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:12.779
give feedback or people would give advice. I'm

00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:15.259
just kind of, yep, that's whatever. And I would

00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:17.799
just go about my day. It was a paycheck. But

00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:21.000
then I started learning as I got to know more

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.099
of the business and I got to know more of the

00:17:22.099 --> 00:17:25.799
people and the opportunities were lining up that

00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:31.900
you have to be open to what anybody is going

00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:34.359
to be saying to you. Communication is something

00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:36.559
to where if you're not going into it with an

00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.680
open mind, then you might as well just walk away

00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:40.960
because there's no point in you having the conversation.

00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.750
You have to have an open mind. And you have to

00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:47.529
be willing to listen to actually absorb what's

00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:50.390
being said and not listen just to, okay, you

00:17:50.390 --> 00:17:52.109
said something. I know I have to respond to that.

00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:55.170
This is my response. So if you're not doing those

00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:57.390
two things, like absorbing what's actually happening

00:17:57.390 --> 00:18:00.890
and then listening with the intent to actually

00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:03.869
continue the conversation, maybe ask some questions

00:18:03.869 --> 00:18:06.670
and be like, why do you say that specifically?

00:18:06.910 --> 00:18:09.190
Do you have some examples? Stuff like that. It's

00:18:09.190 --> 00:18:10.390
not going to do any good. You're not going to

00:18:10.390 --> 00:18:13.289
go anywhere. Why do you think, because I 100

00:18:13.289 --> 00:18:15.250
% agree, why do you think it's so hard for people

00:18:15.250 --> 00:18:18.009
to go into a conversation with an open mind?

00:18:18.250 --> 00:18:20.029
Because so many people don't. Why is that so

00:18:20.029 --> 00:18:22.430
hard? I think it depends on who the conversation

00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:24.829
is with, but I think the majority of the time

00:18:24.829 --> 00:18:29.269
it's ego. There's so much ego that plays into

00:18:29.269 --> 00:18:30.990
it. When someone says, I have some feedback for

00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:33.910
you, instantly you kind of, you know, you'll

00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:36.490
see people do this and like, yeah, let's go ahead

00:18:36.490 --> 00:18:39.069
and tell me what it is. And they're kind of closed

00:18:39.069 --> 00:18:41.039
off. and they almost feel like they're being

00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.019
attacked because they did something wrong. It's

00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:47.000
not just, no, I just have some constructive criticism

00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.599
for you because I want you to be better. I want

00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:54.460
you to succeed. And so many times it's just as

00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:56.420
soon as you say the word feedback or let's have

00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:59.140
a talk or something like that, it's almost like

00:18:59.140 --> 00:19:00.759
back when your parents would say, I've got to

00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:02.019
talk to you about something, and you're like,

00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:04.859
oh, I'm in trouble. It's not the case, especially

00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:07.660
if it's a worthwhile leader within that industry.

00:19:08.669 --> 00:19:10.069
they're going to be having that conversation

00:19:10.069 --> 00:19:13.329
with you because they want to see you succeed.

00:19:13.529 --> 00:19:16.470
Yeah. And it's interesting because, you know,

00:19:16.490 --> 00:19:18.190
when you bring that up about somebody saying

00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:19.910
like, oh, can we have a conversation? Can we

00:19:19.910 --> 00:19:23.569
talk? I've experienced it from a leader perspective

00:19:23.569 --> 00:19:26.970
of the panic that I give people when I tell them

00:19:26.970 --> 00:19:30.150
I want to talk. And it doesn't have to be like

00:19:30.150 --> 00:19:31.950
it's not something bad. It might be something

00:19:31.950 --> 00:19:33.410
good. I might be telling them congratulations

00:19:33.410 --> 00:19:35.970
for something. There's this immediate like, oh.

00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.339
Uh -oh, the boss wants to talk. Uh -oh, what's

00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:41.539
going on? It probably is this fear, right? It's

00:19:41.539 --> 00:19:42.960
fear of what that's going to mean. It's fear

00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.559
of what's going to happen. It's a little bit

00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.339
of this ego, right? This pride situation. You

00:19:48.339 --> 00:19:50.920
know, for me, a couple of things that I've tried

00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.460
to do, and I'd love to get your take on these,

00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.059
is part of the reason why I have a weekly meeting

00:19:57.059 --> 00:19:59.119
with the people who directly report to me is

00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.049
so that then it's already curated in. I don't

00:20:02.049 --> 00:20:03.809
have to be pulling them aside and telling them

00:20:03.809 --> 00:20:05.710
that and have that fear strike their head. They're

00:20:05.710 --> 00:20:07.170
going to know they're meeting with me. And then

00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:09.170
in the meeting itself, then I take the opportunity.

00:20:09.329 --> 00:20:11.569
And usually what I'll do, and I learned this

00:20:11.569 --> 00:20:15.470
from a podcast that I had listened to about management

00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:18.589
and leadership, is I ask if I can give feedback.

00:20:19.170 --> 00:20:20.609
Like, hey, BJ, can I give you some feedback?

00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:24.269
And then I'm inviting them to allow me to give

00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:25.869
it to them, and they're giving me permission

00:20:25.869 --> 00:20:28.859
to then do it. And I've just found that. People

00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:31.200
are more likely to receive it. It's not perfect

00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.900
always, but then they're at least opening themselves

00:20:34.900 --> 00:20:38.460
up a little bit more to say, yes, you can give

00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:40.059
me that feedback. Now they're listening a little

00:20:40.059 --> 00:20:42.619
bit better. What strategies have you taken when

00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:44.099
you're trying to help people not immediately

00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:46.900
have that panic reaction and helping them to

00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:48.579
be a little bit more open to feedback you want

00:20:48.579 --> 00:20:51.579
to give? I kind of take a two -pronged approach.

00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.730
One of them actually is that. you know, can I

00:20:53.730 --> 00:20:56.450
offer you some feedback? Um, it's so good. It

00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:58.490
really is. Cause it, it brings up, it almost

00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:01.089
makes it feel like it's their idea, which is

00:21:01.089 --> 00:21:02.730
great. If it's, if it's something that, that

00:21:02.730 --> 00:21:04.289
they think they've thought of, it's like, Oh

00:21:04.289 --> 00:21:06.009
yeah, I actually was kind of curious what, what

00:21:06.009 --> 00:21:08.829
you thought. So are you asking that we can have

00:21:08.829 --> 00:21:10.730
that conversation? You know, I'll be more receptive

00:21:10.730 --> 00:21:14.730
to it. Um, the other would be just as part of

00:21:14.730 --> 00:21:16.490
that conversation. Cause I was the same way when

00:21:16.490 --> 00:21:20.230
I've, when I've been a leader or manager of,

00:21:20.309 --> 00:21:23.380
of teams, I would try to have, you know weekly

00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:24.960
one -on -ones with them and then you know like

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.460
monthly team meetings and stuff so it's on the

00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:30.279
same page and um depending on how i had to talk

00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:34.059
to the individual i'd make sure that i knew exactly

00:21:34.059 --> 00:21:35.880
what i was going to cover if there were some

00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:37.799
concerns you know how i'm going to bring that

00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:39.400
up how does that relate to you know your day

00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:41.460
-to -day but then i would just put some questions

00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:43.559
in there like if we just listen to a call it's

00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:45.359
like okay this is this is what i thought i thought

00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.680
you did a really good job you built great rapport

00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.440
with the customer you knew the products really

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.519
really well What do you think is one positive

00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:53.839
and one could be better that you could have done

00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.480
on this thing? And if they start kind of digging

00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:01.200
into the possibilities of improvement on their

00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.579
own, again, it's like the can I give you some

00:22:03.579 --> 00:22:06.640
feedback? They're instigating it. And then you

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:07.700
just be like, yeah, I actually really like you

00:22:07.700 --> 00:22:09.599
brought that up. I thought something similar.

00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.200
Mind if we talk about that for a little bit?

00:22:11.259 --> 00:22:13.539
Yeah, sure. What did you think as well? Anytime

00:22:13.539 --> 00:22:15.859
you can get them engaged in that conversation

00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:17.440
and it doesn't feel like you're just getting

00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.329
a reprimand, then. 100 % of the time, they're

00:22:21.329 --> 00:22:24.849
going to be more open to that. Yeah. When the

00:22:24.849 --> 00:22:27.609
shoe's in the other foot and you're the one needing

00:22:27.609 --> 00:22:30.230
to receive feedback, how have you learned over

00:22:30.230 --> 00:22:34.390
time to be open and have an open mind to the

00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:36.150
feedback that's coming your way? Because I think

00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:38.089
we do have this natural reaction of like, oh,

00:22:38.349 --> 00:22:40.410
oh, I don't want to listen to that. Oh, it's

00:22:40.410 --> 00:22:42.970
just, you know, you tell me something bad and

00:22:42.970 --> 00:22:44.710
I don't want to hear it. So what have you done

00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:48.039
to help yourself receive it better? That's a

00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.240
it's a good question. It's an ongoing struggle

00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.039
for me, honestly, because I've. Unfortunately,

00:22:54.099 --> 00:22:56.539
I have a face that doesn't hide my emotions very

00:22:56.539 --> 00:22:59.440
well. So, you know, when I get feedback from

00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.079
from a manager or, you know, even in my last

00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:05.579
job, a direct manager or like I meet with the

00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:08.160
director over the customer success team once

00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.799
a month, if I disagreed with something, they

00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.900
usually knew because I wouldn't say anything.

00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:16.180
It's just like your face did something. But.

00:23:17.130 --> 00:23:20.269
It's one of those things that I'm kind of hyper

00:23:20.269 --> 00:23:23.450
-focused on. And part of that approach for me

00:23:23.450 --> 00:23:28.410
is asking for feedback, like actively putting

00:23:28.410 --> 00:23:31.730
myself in those situations where I'm going to

00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:35.650
be getting some feedback, some sort of advice

00:23:35.650 --> 00:23:38.250
or some sort of coaching or something that I

00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:41.190
may not like and it may end up being great when

00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:44.029
I ask for it. But that's a consistent thing for

00:23:44.029 --> 00:23:48.200
me when I have my one -on -ones with, those that

00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:50.460
I report to, to be able to say, what feedback

00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:52.059
do you have for me? And if they say, I don't

00:23:52.059 --> 00:23:53.400
have anything, I'll actually bring something

00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:55.539
up. So what about this? Do you feel like I could

00:23:55.539 --> 00:23:58.200
be doing better with the product or taking more

00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.740
calls or something? I will kind of become my

00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:03.059
own worst enemy and I'll analyze my own performance

00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:06.200
and then get their feedback on it. Because then

00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:07.839
if I do that and they're like, no, I think you're

00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.279
doing great, I can then say, okay, what I'm doing

00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:13.220
is working. I can now focus on other stuff. And

00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:16.180
the other thing that was really hard for me was,

00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:21.000
the listening with true intent and not just hearing

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:22.799
something. It's like, I have a reply for that,

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:24.539
which instantly means I'm not listening to the

00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:26.660
rest of what they're saying. Being able to just

00:24:26.660 --> 00:24:28.880
be very open to what an individual is saying

00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.000
and then responding based on the entirety of

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.920
what they said has been the biggest thing for

00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:36.460
me. So this, this is such a perfect lead in for

00:24:36.460 --> 00:24:38.960
us because this is from inside out, right? Yep.

00:24:39.579 --> 00:24:43.720
This is to set the scene, right? So we've got

00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:45.559
the mom and the dad, and then we've got Riley,

00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:47.539
their daughter. I can't remember how old she

00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:50.259
is. Nine or something? Ten? Yeah, ten or eleven.

00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:53.500
Somewhere in that range, right? And they're around

00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:57.400
the dinner table, and the mom is talking to Riley.

00:24:57.500 --> 00:24:59.059
And I don't remember what exactly she's saying,

00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.650
but then she asks the dad to weigh in. because

00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:04.730
she's wanting him to weigh in on what's happening.

00:25:05.150 --> 00:25:07.789
And then suddenly you see inside his head, right?

00:25:07.890 --> 00:25:11.170
And you see all the little emotions that are

00:25:11.170 --> 00:25:13.470
characters inside of his head. And this is what

00:25:13.470 --> 00:25:15.730
they're saying to each other inside his head.

00:25:16.369 --> 00:25:18.490
Uh -oh, she's looking at us. What did she say?

00:25:18.650 --> 00:25:21.769
What? Oh, sorry, sir. No one was listening. Is

00:25:21.769 --> 00:25:23.509
it garbage night? We left the toilet seat up?

00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:27.490
What? What is it, woman? What? Because he just

00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:29.910
completely wasn't listening, right? And it's

00:25:29.910 --> 00:25:32.799
such a funny way for that to be portrayed. portrayed

00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.099
and yet like how often do we fall into that right

00:25:37.099 --> 00:25:39.799
all the time yeah what what's kind of your takeaway

00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:42.500
like uh from from that particular scene what

00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:45.380
what leads to that what what are kind of the

00:25:45.380 --> 00:25:47.079
emotions that kind of both sides are kind of

00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.980
experiencing when that happens both sides the

00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:53.579
wife and the wife and the husband uh -huh uh

00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:56.740
well in that in that moment from the husband's

00:25:56.740 --> 00:25:59.660
perspective i'd imagine sheer panic uh -huh um

00:25:59.660 --> 00:26:02.769
and then for the wife just utter frustration,

00:26:02.869 --> 00:26:07.390
which hopefully they're having good communication

00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:09.730
outside of the dinner table so that they know

00:26:09.730 --> 00:26:11.309
what, you know, how to proceed in those situations.

00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:16.289
But yeah, I mean, it just, it just kind of reinforces

00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:19.069
the fact that you have to be, especially as a

00:26:19.069 --> 00:26:20.869
parent, but you know, in the business world too,

00:26:20.910 --> 00:26:24.190
you have to be kind of hyper aware of what's

00:26:24.190 --> 00:26:26.109
happening around you. You don't really have the

00:26:26.109 --> 00:26:29.539
luxury of just zoning out. Yeah. So. I think

00:26:29.539 --> 00:26:33.500
it's sometimes representative, too, of even if

00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:36.779
somebody isn't necessarily zoned out, and I think

00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:38.660
he was paying attention to a hockey game or something,

00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:41.720
I think is what he was doing, that we will sometimes

00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.019
do that even in the conversation because the

00:26:45.019 --> 00:26:47.279
thoughts we have are on how we're going to respond.

00:26:48.019 --> 00:26:50.980
As opposed to, like you were suggesting, which

00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:53.220
is much healthier to do, which is to listen,

00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.039
trying to hear them and to understand what they're

00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.579
saying. In fact, we've got... I mean, there's

00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:01.619
a great quote, and probably everybody knows it,

00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:04.400
but from Stephen Covey, where he says, most people

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:06.259
do not listen with the intent to understand.

00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:09.619
They listen with the intent to reply. And so,

00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:12.480
you know, we're basically shutting somebody out

00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.960
as if we were watching a hockey game if we're

00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:16.859
simply listening with the intent to reply. And

00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:19.940
I'm guilty of it all the time, especially when

00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:21.740
I'm discussing something with my wife. I'm like,

00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.059
oh, OK. Oh, no, I'm going to respond to that.

00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:26.180
No, no, no. I got to say this thing instead of.

00:27:27.669 --> 00:27:30.170
and I think as you suggested, like asking more

00:27:30.170 --> 00:27:32.230
questions. Yep. I think that's one of the keys,

00:27:32.349 --> 00:27:36.190
right? So as you're trying to listen for understanding,

00:27:36.490 --> 00:27:39.690
some also call active listening, what are the

00:27:39.690 --> 00:27:42.349
things that you do to try to be more active and

00:27:42.349 --> 00:27:43.829
present in hearing what that person's saying?

00:27:47.089 --> 00:27:51.230
One of the first things that popped in my mind

00:27:51.230 --> 00:27:53.390
is actually... I don't know if this actually

00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:54.950
works, but it has nothing to do with the person.

00:27:55.190 --> 00:27:59.430
I'm, I'm being mindful of, I guess it kind of

00:27:59.430 --> 00:28:00.650
has to do with the person. I'm being mindful

00:28:00.650 --> 00:28:04.609
of how they're perceiving me. Like, am I, am

00:28:04.609 --> 00:28:06.690
I kind of just looking deadpan because I'm like

00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:08.650
so hyper -focused that it's like, I'm listening,

00:28:08.829 --> 00:28:11.730
but to them, do I look like I'm zoned out or

00:28:11.730 --> 00:28:13.009
do I look like I'm not, I don't really care what

00:28:13.009 --> 00:28:14.970
they're saying. Yeah. And so, and I've done this

00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:17.009
in one -on -ones, but I've also done it in like,

00:28:17.029 --> 00:28:18.529
you know, when I'm done hiring interviews and

00:28:18.529 --> 00:28:21.160
stuff, I will. actively be like, you know, the

00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.700
whole smile with your eyes aspect. I'll be like,

00:28:23.779 --> 00:28:25.799
oh, I'm zoning. And I'll, you know, I'll kind

00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:27.740
of perk up and be like, oh, you know, I'm still

00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:29.640
here. I'm paying attention. And that seems to

00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.160
be kind of a nonverbal way to show others that,

00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:36.039
no, I'm listening. I'm, you know, paying attention

00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:37.500
to what you're saying. I'm here. I'm present.

00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.579
I will usually, aside from the asking questions,

00:28:43.900 --> 00:28:47.319
I will use like clarifying statements. So if

00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:50.059
someone says something. I will just kind of repeat

00:28:50.059 --> 00:28:52.079
back. It's like, oh, so you're meaning X, Y,

00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:56.400
Z type thing. And it shows to them that I actually

00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.039
was understanding what they were saying. I was

00:28:58.039 --> 00:28:59.819
listening to what they were saying. And then

00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.319
if there is a correction, if I misunderstood,

00:29:02.660 --> 00:29:05.579
it's like, yeah, kind of, but this, then I can,

00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.140
you know, be like, oh, I was listening, but I

00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:09.599
was taking it an entirely different way than

00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.099
where you were wanting to go with that. So now

00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:13.279
you've brought me back on track. I'm present

00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:16.900
again. You know, I was still listening, but for

00:29:16.900 --> 00:29:18.869
some reason or another. i missed a key point

00:29:18.869 --> 00:29:20.670
there to where i you know i needed to be where

00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:22.910
you were at so those are usually some of the

00:29:22.910 --> 00:29:26.869
the tactics that i'll use i think that's really

00:29:26.869 --> 00:29:29.289
good and um i hadn't thought about that first

00:29:29.289 --> 00:29:31.470
one much but i think you're right like the way

00:29:31.470 --> 00:29:34.309
that our body language is communicating is absolutely

00:29:34.309 --> 00:29:38.849
communication yep and so if we do have that very

00:29:38.849 --> 00:29:41.390
you know gruff look or you know for a brow look

00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:43.390
while they're saying something even if for us

00:29:43.390 --> 00:29:46.180
it actually means that we're focusing It doesn't

00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:48.900
for them. And if we're aware of that, then we

00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:50.759
can take a little reset. Like, okay, I got to

00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:54.339
smile so I'm more engaged. I think one of the

00:29:54.339 --> 00:29:56.160
things that a lot of times people say is leaning

00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.880
into it, raising your eyebrows so it shows that

00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.259
you're listening. There's one thing, too, that

00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:05.900
I've found that some people will do, I think,

00:30:05.900 --> 00:30:09.059
as they think it's a technique to show that they're

00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:12.200
listening and ultimately becomes supremely annoying,

00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:15.420
which is when you're talking to somebody, And

00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:17.000
instead of them just nodding their head when

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.359
you're saying something, kind of like you and

00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:20.299
I have been doing, they say yes all the time.

00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:24.480
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all it ends up doing

00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:26.619
is just like interrupting the flow and it like

00:30:26.619 --> 00:30:31.700
just becomes very jarring. And sometimes I've

00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:34.319
seen people use that to try to take back control

00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:36.299
of the conversation, which then is like they're

00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.539
not listening at all. They're just trying to

00:30:38.539 --> 00:30:40.599
say yes so they can suddenly get the attention

00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:43.059
back or they can get the word in that they want

00:30:43.059 --> 00:30:45.819
to say. So it's one thing is I've talked to people

00:30:45.819 --> 00:30:47.259
or trained people on this. It's like you have

00:30:47.259 --> 00:30:50.039
to be really careful. Body language is way better.

00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:54.259
The yes and the yes become very annoying, and

00:30:54.259 --> 00:30:56.420
you've got to be very careful and cautious. You

00:30:56.420 --> 00:30:58.940
can still use them. Just be very cautious on

00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:01.019
how much you do use them because of that. Yeah,

00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:03.720
it becomes almost like a – if I can tell that

00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.099
you're wrapping up a thought or wrapping up at

00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:07.660
least a portion of what we're talking about,

00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:11.160
you can acknowledge it. As my family will attest

00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.980
to, it drives me crazy when someone, like I'm

00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:16.900
in the middle of some conversation and I'm sharing

00:31:16.900 --> 00:31:18.859
a thought, especially if I'm passionate about

00:31:18.859 --> 00:31:21.180
it, and someone just jumps in and starts talking

00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:24.440
about something else. I'm like, cool, I'm done.

00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:26.400
You want me to not listen at that point? It's

00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.839
like, hey, we're no longer having a conversation.

00:31:27.940 --> 00:31:29.660
You're just speaking at me. I'm not going to

00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:32.900
play that. But it almost, along the lines of

00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:34.039
what you were saying, where it's like they're

00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:35.839
trying to interject. That's what kind of comes

00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:37.680
across as like, okay, it's my turn now. It's

00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.819
my turn now. To the individual, it does break

00:31:40.819 --> 00:31:44.200
up their flow, but it also makes them feel rushed.

00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.380
It's like what I have to say is not important.

00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.779
And so it's like, oh, okay, I'm just bugging

00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:52.579
you. And not only do you not get the context

00:31:52.579 --> 00:31:54.099
of what's being said, which could be very, very

00:31:54.099 --> 00:31:56.099
important, and this is kind of going down a different

00:31:56.099 --> 00:31:59.799
tangent, but you potentially have damaged a relationship.

00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:02.359
And in the professional world, that's a problem,

00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:04.960
especially if you're like direct reports with

00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:06.140
that person. They're not going to feel like they

00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:08.170
can come to you with things. because they'll

00:32:08.170 --> 00:32:10.670
just feel like you'll just blow it off. So I

00:32:10.670 --> 00:32:12.130
hadn't thought about that one as well, but that's

00:32:12.130 --> 00:32:15.029
a big one. And what I really like, too, what

00:32:15.029 --> 00:32:18.509
you were saying about mirroring, is it's helpful

00:32:18.509 --> 00:32:20.630
for so many reasons. Just like you pointed out,

00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:22.170
it's helpful because you're showing that you

00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:23.970
listen, that you can also boil it down, what

00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.470
they're saying. The clarification one I found

00:32:26.470 --> 00:32:28.609
is really key, because there's times where a

00:32:28.609 --> 00:32:31.730
simple misunderstanding about a word or what

00:32:31.730 --> 00:32:34.730
a word means, the semantics of a word, can make

00:32:34.730 --> 00:32:37.640
all the difference. If one person is looking

00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.700
at that word and it means something to them and

00:32:39.700 --> 00:32:41.220
the other person it means something entirely

00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:44.119
different, using that mirroring technique and

00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:45.740
repeating it back in a way that they understand

00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:48.579
suddenly clarifies, oh, you thought that meant

00:32:48.579 --> 00:32:53.359
this. To me, it means that. Just like that, you

00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:55.940
can clear it up. And if you can clear those things

00:32:55.940 --> 00:32:57.619
up and avoid those, now suddenly the communication

00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:00.640
is improved vastly through simply doing that,

00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:05.180
which is – it's a really powerful way to do it.

00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.279
One of the things that I found super helpful

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.000
is also just in asking the questions that, like

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.259
you suggested, it's the idea of being curious

00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:15.000
in those questions, that you're genuinely curious

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.319
for it, right? You're not just asking questions

00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:19.819
because, well, I've got to check this box. I've

00:33:19.819 --> 00:33:21.380
got to ask a question, right? So I'm going to

00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:23.119
throw something in here that's kind of like it's

00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:26.960
a question. I want to seem smart. Yes. I have

00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.720
to act like a leader. So I have to ask questions.

00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:32.460
Totally. And you can feel the difference between

00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:35.519
that and someone who's like genuinely curious.

00:33:37.220 --> 00:33:41.619
My sister -in -law is one of the best question

00:33:41.619 --> 00:33:45.319
askers that I've ever met. And she has this way,

00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:48.000
especially like meeting new people or talking

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.019
to people where she's just so genuinely curious

00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:53.700
that it's like she can immediately build a relationship

00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:56.460
because she's being so sincere and so genuine.

00:33:56.890 --> 00:33:58.970
and asking those questions. And the other person

00:33:58.970 --> 00:34:01.529
feels like, wow, this person's like my best friend.

00:34:01.650 --> 00:34:03.950
I love this person. And it's just as simple as

00:34:03.950 --> 00:34:06.170
bringing that curiosity to the questions. I mean,

00:34:06.210 --> 00:34:07.789
it's not that simple because it's actually hard.

00:34:07.950 --> 00:34:11.730
It's hard to do it naturally and genuinely and

00:34:11.730 --> 00:34:15.610
keep it there and keep it in tune. But when you

00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:18.869
can master that skill, my goodness, it opens

00:34:18.869 --> 00:34:20.929
up a lot. You will go far. Yeah, it opens up

00:34:20.929 --> 00:34:23.619
a lot. especially with employees, coworkers,

00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:25.980
right? Just in the professional realm it does.

00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:27.840
And then outside the professional realm, of course,

00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:30.219
like many other applications with your networking

00:34:30.219 --> 00:34:33.679
or making friends in so many other ways. So,

00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:38.280
okay. So with this idea of communication, one

00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:40.260
of the things we see with Riley and her parents

00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:43.579
is they're just really lack of effective communication

00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:47.360
for a while, right? Where... Their communication

00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.360
really starts to break down after this move happens.

00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.519
So they're, what was it in, I want to say it

00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.360
was in Minnesota. Is that where they were? They're

00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.539
in Minnesota. And they got to make this move,

00:34:57.639 --> 00:34:59.659
presumably for dad's job. I think that's what

00:34:59.659 --> 00:35:01.380
it was. And they moved to San Francisco, vastly

00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:04.179
different place than Minnesota was. And Riley

00:35:04.179 --> 00:35:07.059
really begins to like struggle with this thing.

00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.579
And I mean, she's a tween. And so like her communication

00:35:10.579 --> 00:35:14.599
with her parents is not there. I think what we

00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.519
see with Riley is, It's kind of like she's kind

00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:20.300
of been like this kind of perfect job for them,

00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.320
and then suddenly her world is disrupted, and

00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:26.019
she's feeling it, but she's not willing to communicate

00:35:26.019 --> 00:35:27.699
it because she's still got to have this perception

00:35:27.699 --> 00:35:32.280
of being this perfect child. When people are

00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.599
experiencing those kind of breakdowns in communication,

00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:40.539
how do you identify when someone is not sharing?

00:35:41.210 --> 00:35:42.929
The things that maybe they share that are struggling

00:35:42.929 --> 00:35:45.429
with them. How do you pull that out of somebody

00:35:45.429 --> 00:35:48.909
effectively? Like for Riley's parents, them trying

00:35:48.909 --> 00:35:51.269
to pull it out of her in a way that's going to

00:35:51.269 --> 00:35:55.010
be genuine and sincere and allowing her to express

00:35:55.010 --> 00:35:56.590
it without just holding those things in. Because

00:35:56.590 --> 00:35:59.449
I think that's really hard. I think it kind of

00:35:59.449 --> 00:36:00.730
goes back to one of the things you mentioned

00:36:00.730 --> 00:36:04.250
before about the being genuine aspect. Knowing

00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:10.960
when to be a person as opposed to a leader. Because

00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:14.639
it's – we've all experienced in the business

00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.920
world where at times you feel more like a cog

00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:20.900
in a wheel as opposed to an actual individual,

00:36:21.219 --> 00:36:23.880
someone who's contributing, who feels valued.

00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.119
You're just kind of – you're a dollar sign on

00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.980
a spreadsheet. Anytime somebody feels that way,

00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.420
I think instantly they're going to kind of close

00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:35.980
off. They're not going to want to have conversations

00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:37.960
with leaders because they feel like they're not

00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:39.280
being understood or they're not being heard.

00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:43.639
or that we don't care. So I will look at a few

00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.699
things. If I'm like running a team meeting, for

00:36:46.699 --> 00:36:49.320
example, and I know that when I'm, you know,

00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:52.059
based on my past conversations, I know that someone

00:36:52.059 --> 00:36:54.420
is usually a pretty outgoing person. They communicate

00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:56.659
with the team. They, you know, in past team meetings,

00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:00.539
they've been very present. And even if it's just

00:37:00.539 --> 00:37:01.860
cracking jokes and not necessarily contributing

00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:05.219
from a business standpoint, if I'm noticing differences

00:37:05.219 --> 00:37:10.550
with that, that will be kind of a... Maybe we

00:37:10.550 --> 00:37:12.030
should do a check -in and see. It's like, hey,

00:37:12.110 --> 00:37:15.809
how are things going? Just in general. Now, obviously,

00:37:15.929 --> 00:37:17.570
maintaining professionalism because we're not

00:37:17.570 --> 00:37:19.550
therapists, but, you know, it should be like

00:37:19.550 --> 00:37:23.050
things good with you. You're doing okay. Any

00:37:23.050 --> 00:37:24.510
struggles with the job? Any struggles that you

00:37:24.510 --> 00:37:27.610
want to bring up to me? And, again, making it

00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:31.630
their decision if they want to share. We're not

00:37:31.630 --> 00:37:35.309
going to sit there and pry into their life. And

00:37:35.309 --> 00:37:37.369
then just, you know, kind of being able to show

00:37:37.369 --> 00:37:41.579
that you care. As an example, I had a woman on

00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:45.820
one of my teams when I worked at Thumbtack. And

00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:50.019
it was hard for me to kind of gauge how to interact

00:37:50.019 --> 00:37:53.880
with her because she was in her 60s, I think.

00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:56.599
And so it's like, okay, you've got 30 years on

00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:59.079
me. You've got all this life experience. She'd

00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:00.900
worked at a bunch of places. She'd raised four

00:38:00.900 --> 00:38:03.800
kids and all these things. So I had to try to

00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:08.119
find unique ways to be able to. have that conversation,

00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:10.019
but I felt like I had a good enough rapport with

00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:12.059
her during one of the one -on -ones. I was just

00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:14.460
like, Hey, you know what? I don't know what it

00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:17.539
is. Something feels kind of off. Like, are you,

00:38:17.539 --> 00:38:19.159
are you doing okay? Like, is there, is there

00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:20.860
anything you want to talk about? Is there anything

00:38:20.860 --> 00:38:23.719
you want to, you want to bring up? Um, cause

00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:26.679
I'm, you know, I'm here to listen if, if you

00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:29.639
need to. And she initially said no. And we started

00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:31.800
having a conversation about her performance,

00:38:31.820 --> 00:38:36.099
about work. And she started She started talking

00:38:36.099 --> 00:38:38.300
about, you know, one of the calls that we had

00:38:38.300 --> 00:38:40.619
just graded. And I was like, yeah, I noticed

00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:42.960
that you seemed a little, like you got flustered

00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:47.519
on that call. And again, I asked her, it's like,

00:38:47.539 --> 00:38:49.780
was everything okay? Like, is this not typically

00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:52.059
what happens? And she just opened up and started

00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:53.239
telling me all this stuff that was going on.

00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:56.920
So I think it's an aspect of being genuine. Again,

00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:00.340
being kind of always present, not zoning out

00:39:00.340 --> 00:39:02.599
and being like, you know, it's fine. It doesn't

00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:04.949
matter. You have to be able to pick up on those

00:39:04.949 --> 00:39:08.809
things. If something feels off and then trust

00:39:08.809 --> 00:39:12.510
your gut when it's like, Hey, just curious. Is

00:39:12.510 --> 00:39:16.030
everything okay? Yeah. Before we jump back in,

00:39:16.090 --> 00:39:19.150
can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying

00:39:19.150 --> 00:39:22.769
the journey so far, will you like rate and subscribe

00:39:22.769 --> 00:39:25.730
to our show? It helps us reach more people like

00:39:25.730 --> 00:39:29.170
you. We can design and create and build the most

00:39:29.170 --> 00:39:32.030
wonderful place in the world, but it takes people.

00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:37.940
To make the dream a reality. It's such a good

00:39:37.940 --> 00:39:40.719
example of a couple of things. I mean, the first

00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.500
one is that it's inviting the person to. We can't

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.539
force them to. Because you just can't. Sometimes

00:39:46.539 --> 00:39:49.460
people have to express it in their time. And

00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:51.300
that's one of the things we see with Riley and

00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:53.840
her parents, right? They know something's wrong.

00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.079
And they're trying to. But before she ends up

00:39:57.079 --> 00:39:59.809
opening up. We have this like explosion back.

00:39:59.889 --> 00:40:01.349
And I wrote down one of them that she was like,

00:40:01.429 --> 00:40:03.170
she yells at him like, what is your problem?

00:40:03.289 --> 00:40:05.309
Just leave me alone, right? Like classic kid

00:40:05.309 --> 00:40:08.409
thing. But we as adults do that same thing. Sometimes

00:40:08.409 --> 00:40:11.590
we're invited to, but we're not there for whatever

00:40:11.590 --> 00:40:15.090
reason. But one of the other quotes that I wrote

00:40:15.090 --> 00:40:18.289
down was from Daniel Pink, who is author, public

00:40:18.289 --> 00:40:21.130
speaker. He's got some great books. In one book

00:40:21.130 --> 00:40:23.969
called To Sell is Human, he wrote, listening

00:40:23.969 --> 00:40:26.849
without some degree of intimacy isn't really

00:40:26.849 --> 00:40:30.989
listening. It's passive and transactional rather

00:40:30.989 --> 00:40:34.969
than active and engaged. And when I heard you

00:40:34.969 --> 00:40:36.630
talking about those words that you were using,

00:40:36.650 --> 00:40:38.969
I actually wrote them down before, and then you

00:40:38.969 --> 00:40:40.510
said the exact words. When I was thinking about

00:40:40.510 --> 00:40:42.909
this quote, like what does it mean, intimacy?

00:40:43.150 --> 00:40:44.730
Because we're not talking about romantic intimacy,

00:40:44.929 --> 00:40:46.570
obviously. We're talking about something very

00:40:46.570 --> 00:40:49.030
different. I wrote down genuine presence, and

00:40:49.030 --> 00:40:51.590
you used both of those words precisely because

00:40:51.590 --> 00:40:55.050
that's it. If we're genuine, we actually care

00:40:55.050 --> 00:40:57.739
about that person. And we're being present with

00:40:57.739 --> 00:41:01.260
them. We've invested into their reality, what

00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:05.039
their life is. We create a space in which they

00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:09.139
could share if we invite them to. They might

00:41:09.139 --> 00:41:11.360
not. We can't force it. But it certainly won't

00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:13.579
happen if they don't feel safe enough to do it.

00:41:13.659 --> 00:41:15.380
And I think it's along those same lines. You

00:41:15.380 --> 00:41:17.320
talk about the example with Riley. It's not just

00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.619
her parents either. There's that example in the

00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:21.039
movie where she's talking to one of her friends.

00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.360
And they're talking about how well the team is

00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:26.329
doing and all these different things. If you

00:41:26.329 --> 00:41:28.829
don't, it's you have to have that intimacy. It

00:41:28.829 --> 00:41:30.670
has to come from both sides. If you're going

00:41:30.670 --> 00:41:32.570
to be willingly having those conversations and

00:41:32.570 --> 00:41:35.170
make it genuine and make it present. That's one

00:41:35.170 --> 00:41:37.969
of the things that was missing for Riley is it

00:41:37.969 --> 00:41:41.349
just like, nope, that aspect of who I am is now

00:41:41.349 --> 00:41:44.909
closed. And you have to kind of sometimes you

00:41:44.909 --> 00:41:47.769
have to kind of hit, you know, rock bottom, for

00:41:47.769 --> 00:41:50.110
lack of a better term, before you open that door

00:41:50.110 --> 00:41:52.050
up again and let people that used to have that

00:41:52.050 --> 00:41:53.469
kind of connection with you have that connection

00:41:53.469 --> 00:41:55.519
again. Or let somebody else in to be like, hey,

00:41:55.539 --> 00:41:58.860
I genuinely just want to help. So I like that

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:01.539
quite a lot. And one of the things that we'll

00:42:01.539 --> 00:42:07.380
see here with kids in divorces is they get to

00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:12.119
that space where they don't feel safe. People

00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:14.280
know something's wrong. I mean, obviously, right?

00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.480
If their parents have gone through divorce, like

00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:18.579
everybody knows that theoretically this kid should

00:42:18.579 --> 00:42:22.010
be experiencing some things. But it's very easy

00:42:22.010 --> 00:42:24.070
for those kids to get to a place where they don't

00:42:24.070 --> 00:42:26.110
feel like they have a safe place to actually

00:42:26.110 --> 00:42:28.690
communicate that. Or what they're going to communicate

00:42:28.690 --> 00:42:30.730
is not genuinely how they feel because they're

00:42:30.730 --> 00:42:33.130
trying to protect other people's feelings. And

00:42:33.130 --> 00:42:35.409
they become a really difficult thing for kids

00:42:35.409 --> 00:42:40.309
that are in divorce situations. And by the same

00:42:40.309 --> 00:42:41.889
token, the same thing happens to us as adults,

00:42:42.010 --> 00:42:43.710
right? We sometimes like to act like it's just

00:42:43.710 --> 00:42:45.650
the kids whose brains are not fully developed.

00:42:45.750 --> 00:42:48.269
And they've got loads of excuses. Our brains

00:42:48.269 --> 00:42:51.210
are. And we're doing the same dumb stuff, right?

00:42:51.269 --> 00:42:54.230
We're doing the same dumb stuff. Yeah. But it's

00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:56.050
really easy for us to fall back into that. It's

00:42:56.050 --> 00:42:57.949
really easy for us to fall back into, like, the

00:42:57.949 --> 00:42:59.730
reactionary, like, no, I'm going to shut people

00:42:59.730 --> 00:43:03.730
out. Yeah. I don't want to open up about this.

00:43:03.769 --> 00:43:06.050
I don't want to be vulnerable about this. I don't

00:43:06.050 --> 00:43:08.250
want to hear what you have to say. You know,

00:43:08.269 --> 00:43:10.309
just leave me alone. It's really easy for us

00:43:10.309 --> 00:43:12.550
to get there. Well, we take it a step further

00:43:12.550 --> 00:43:15.570
as adults because it's not only, you know, I

00:43:15.570 --> 00:43:16.730
don't want to be that open with you. I don't

00:43:16.730 --> 00:43:17.989
want to talk about this. It's like, well, you

00:43:17.989 --> 00:43:21.539
won't care anyway. And we turn it on them. I

00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:24.980
luckily haven't experienced a divorced home,

00:43:25.059 --> 00:43:27.000
but I have a number of friends who have. And

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:28.500
I think it kind of comes across that way sometimes

00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:31.300
with kids too. It's like it turns into, as they

00:43:31.300 --> 00:43:34.739
get older, they think it's their fault that the

00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:36.920
parents got divorced. And as they become adults,

00:43:37.139 --> 00:43:40.840
everything starts to turn on, well, yeah, it's

00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:43.639
me, but you wouldn't want this anyway. You wouldn't

00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:44.760
want to have this conversation. You're not going

00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:45.760
to listen. You're not going to care. You're not

00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:49.320
going to help. And it's so – if you're not –

00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.719
you have to have that intimacy level. But even

00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.119
if that's not there, if you're having genuine

00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:56.159
interactions with somebody, that's how you start

00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:57.880
to kind of knock on the door or break down the

00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:02.579
wall. I'd be like, no. If I didn't care, if I

00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:04.860
didn't want to have this conversation, if I didn't

00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:06.539
want you to be better or want you to succeed

00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:09.179
if you're looking at the business world, I wouldn't

00:44:09.179 --> 00:44:12.900
ask. So hopefully they're willing at that point

00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:14.039
to be like, all right, let's have a conversation.

00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:17.380
I think what it highlights for me as well is

00:44:17.380 --> 00:44:19.719
something I like to talk a lot about, which is

00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.179
kind of the key difference between kindness and

00:44:23.179 --> 00:44:27.960
being nice. Kindness is born of empathy. And

00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.139
the only way you can really empathize with somebody

00:44:30.139 --> 00:44:33.039
is to try to understand them, to try to find

00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:34.920
out more about them, be genuinely interested

00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.440
in them, in their lives, what's going on for

00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.340
them. Because if we don't, like if we can't remember

00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:42.300
things about their lives or remember things that

00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:44.360
they've told us before, they're not going to

00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:46.659
have any kind of confidence that we actually

00:44:46.659 --> 00:44:49.019
genuinely care, right? Like, can you remember

00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:50.500
my kid's name? You don't even know that I have

00:44:50.500 --> 00:44:51.980
kids or not. You don't remember this or that

00:44:51.980 --> 00:44:54.360
about me. It feels surface level. Yeah. And so

00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:57.960
it takes extra work to build the foundations

00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.900
of that relationship so that you can have those

00:45:01.900 --> 00:45:04.440
intimate conversations in this context, right?

00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:08.239
Have those conversations that break down some

00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:10.650
of the walls. You have to really lay the foundation.

00:45:10.969 --> 00:45:14.010
And you don't lay the foundation for selfish

00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:18.030
reasons either. We had a guest on who is a military

00:45:18.030 --> 00:45:21.210
interrogator. And he talked a lot about the difference

00:45:21.210 --> 00:45:25.349
for him between manipulation and influence. And

00:45:25.349 --> 00:45:26.929
for him, the key difference was manipulation

00:45:26.929 --> 00:45:29.590
is when I'm going to do that to benefit myself.

00:45:30.510 --> 00:45:32.769
But influence is when I'm going to do this thing

00:45:32.769 --> 00:45:36.489
to benefit somebody else. And so when we want

00:45:36.489 --> 00:45:38.849
to learn about somebody and be able to be genuinely

00:45:38.849 --> 00:45:40.670
interested, it's because we're interested for

00:45:40.670 --> 00:45:43.570
their sake, not for a selfish reason. Not because,

00:45:43.650 --> 00:45:44.889
well, I really want to get this person to do

00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:47.489
what I want at work. Now we're just manipulating.

00:45:47.610 --> 00:45:48.949
Now it's not genuine. Now it's not authentic,

00:45:49.130 --> 00:45:51.949
right? We have to keep in mind those motivations

00:45:51.949 --> 00:45:54.670
so that it comes across well because this lady

00:45:54.670 --> 00:45:56.610
that you were talking to, this older lady, like

00:45:56.610 --> 00:45:59.050
she could have sniffed it out if you had been

00:45:59.050 --> 00:46:01.110
totally selfishly motivated, but you weren't,

00:46:01.110 --> 00:46:04.320
right? And so that led to... a deeper level of

00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.880
communication where she felt safe enough to have

00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:09.420
that conversation with you, which is hard, which

00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:11.219
is so hard. And honestly, it meant, it meant

00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:14.059
a lot. Like that was when, if I remember correctly,

00:46:14.059 --> 00:46:15.559
this was a long time ago, but if I remember correctly,

00:46:15.659 --> 00:46:17.780
that was, that was the biggest takeaway from,

00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:19.920
from that day. It's like, this was the thing

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.219
that happened today that I love the most. And

00:46:22.219 --> 00:46:24.179
we had a bunch of great stuff. Like we had a

00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:25.840
meeting where it's like, yeah, we won this award

00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:28.179
and you know, yada, yada, yada. It's like, I

00:46:28.179 --> 00:46:30.639
don't care. I actually, you know, Finally broke

00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:32.260
down one of those walls with this person that

00:46:32.260 --> 00:46:35.300
I've been trying to for a while. And it was just

00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:38.760
the coolest feeling. That's amazing. I wrote

00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:41.579
another quote from a lady named Amy Edmondson.

00:46:41.659 --> 00:46:43.380
And this was in something she wrote called The

00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:46.519
Fearless Organization. And what she said was,

00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:49.440
low levels of psychological safety can create

00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.940
a culture of silence. It can also create a Cassandra

00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:55.960
culture, an environment in which speaking up

00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:59.940
is belittled and warnings go unheeded. And I

00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:01.360
think that plays into what we're talking about

00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.119
here, right? How do we fight that? How do we

00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.800
avoid creating a culture of silence so that people

00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:11.719
are actually willing to, first off, speak up

00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.460
in the individual communications, but also speak

00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:16.880
up and communicate in meetings where they feel

00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.480
like they can give opinions and give their ideas

00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:21.460
without feeling they're going to be belittled

00:47:21.460 --> 00:47:27.460
or condescended to if they come up with something

00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:29.360
or say something. How do we create that better

00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:33.960
culture? That's one of the biggest questions

00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.960
that I don't think anybody's gotten the perfect

00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:42.780
answer to yet. Sure. In my mind, it's the human

00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.780
element again. I think we've all been there in

00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:49.659
those meetings where we're expected to chime

00:47:49.659 --> 00:47:52.960
in. And we finally do. And we feel nervous. It

00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:54.980
was like that didn't come across. I don't think

00:47:54.980 --> 00:47:56.960
I explained that the way I should have, or they

00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.719
probably understand what I meant. And it was

00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:02.000
either just like dead silent or someone just

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:04.639
said, okay, thanks. Or they actually started

00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:06.460
teasing you because you maybe started over your

00:48:06.460 --> 00:48:11.579
words or something. Those individuals that have

00:48:11.579 --> 00:48:14.199
had that experience, a lot of times become the

00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:15.599
leaders that are now running those meetings.

00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:18.849
So what I would hope. that when they're looking

00:48:18.849 --> 00:48:22.170
at the culture that they are trying to foster

00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:25.170
and the culture they're trying to build, they

00:48:25.170 --> 00:48:27.369
remember what it was like when they were in that

00:48:27.369 --> 00:48:32.210
person's shoes. And you are gracious that someone

00:48:32.210 --> 00:48:37.789
actually spoke up. You are accepting of what

00:48:37.789 --> 00:48:40.349
it was. And I think it kind of goes along with

00:48:40.349 --> 00:48:41.789
one of the things we already talked about before.

00:48:42.170 --> 00:48:44.650
You can clarify something. Like, okay, so are

00:48:44.650 --> 00:48:48.059
you meaning this? Yes, I am. No, I'm not. Okay,

00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:51.360
let's have a conversation with it. You know,

00:48:51.380 --> 00:48:53.840
if you want to try to have someone else join

00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:56.420
in on the conversation, if someone that normally

00:48:56.420 --> 00:48:59.380
talks up says something, you'd be like, oh, yeah,

00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.500
you know what, Joe, you and I were actually talking

00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:03.480
about something like that a couple days ago.

00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:05.380
I loved what you said during that conversation.

00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:08.179
Would you mind sharing that with the team? You're

00:49:08.179 --> 00:49:09.699
building them up before they even say anything.

00:49:10.460 --> 00:49:12.619
You're verifying that it's like, yep, you had

00:49:12.619 --> 00:49:15.750
a great point. I loved it so much. I feel like

00:49:15.750 --> 00:49:17.150
everybody else should experience that as well.

00:49:17.389 --> 00:49:22.550
Just being engaging and having that type of like

00:49:22.550 --> 00:49:25.190
everybody here is an equal and I'm going to treat

00:49:25.190 --> 00:49:26.489
you like an equal and I treat you like a human.

00:49:27.010 --> 00:49:31.730
You all deserve to be in this room. I think it's

00:49:31.730 --> 00:49:34.469
really hard to do, to remember to do, but so

00:49:34.469 --> 00:49:36.349
key if you can do exactly what you said, which

00:49:36.349 --> 00:49:38.980
is take that prior conversation. highlight it

00:49:38.980 --> 00:49:40.400
to other people because it boosts that person's

00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.300
confidence. Now, when they're in a group setting,

00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:46.159
when they're in some kind of meeting with more

00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:48.920
people, they're more likely to voice that because

00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.300
they've had it validated. Okay, contributions

00:49:52.300 --> 00:49:54.539
that I had or that I made or that I came up with

00:49:54.539 --> 00:49:57.420
or an idea was validated. Maybe I'm good enough

00:49:57.420 --> 00:50:00.039
to speak up. Maybe I can say something in this

00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.480
meeting without the fear of just being shut down

00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.380
or made to look dumb. And I really love that

00:50:07.380 --> 00:50:10.369
suggestion. highlighting people's strengths in

00:50:10.369 --> 00:50:12.269
front of everybody is a really great one. So

00:50:12.269 --> 00:50:17.750
when we come to an inside out, when there's this

00:50:17.750 --> 00:50:19.789
kind of the resolution of it, right, where finally

00:50:19.789 --> 00:50:24.170
Riley kind of gets broken down and she kind of

00:50:24.170 --> 00:50:26.150
tried to run away and then comes back and finally

00:50:26.150 --> 00:50:28.030
is willing to kind of pour her out to her parents.

00:50:28.090 --> 00:50:31.170
This is what she says. I know you don't want

00:50:31.170 --> 00:50:35.099
me to, but I miss home. I miss Minnesota. You

00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:37.139
need me to be happy, but I want my old friends

00:50:37.139 --> 00:50:40.039
and my hockey team. I want to go home. Please

00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:43.199
don't be mad. What are you going to learn from

00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:45.039
what she's kind of communicating to her parents?

00:50:47.659 --> 00:50:50.639
That it's okay to allow yourself to feel what

00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:55.260
you're feeling. In personal life and professional

00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:59.340
life, you're going to have days that are just

00:50:59.340 --> 00:51:02.099
going to be hard. If we're open with how we're

00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:04.289
feeling and open with that communication. Nine

00:51:04.289 --> 00:51:06.389
times out of ten, that's the kind of response

00:51:06.389 --> 00:51:08.869
we're going to get from other people is accepting,

00:51:09.010 --> 00:51:12.110
understanding, loving, you know, things of that

00:51:12.110 --> 00:51:17.550
nature. And it's so, I think, wonderfully depicted

00:51:17.550 --> 00:51:21.409
from the emotions inside Riley's head to about

00:51:21.409 --> 00:51:24.230
where kind of some of this resolution comes,

00:51:24.449 --> 00:51:28.929
where you see the character Joy embracing sadness.

00:51:29.550 --> 00:51:32.110
And then you start to see some of her core memories

00:51:32.110 --> 00:51:35.920
replayed where. there's moments of sadness that

00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:39.980
turn into joy, right? The one core memory they

00:51:39.980 --> 00:51:42.460
kind of showed throughout was like her hockey

00:51:42.460 --> 00:51:44.739
team, all lifting her up on their shoulders and

00:51:44.739 --> 00:51:46.960
cheering. And then at the end you actually see,

00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:49.440
and it rewinds and actually she missed the winning

00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:52.559
goal. They would have won the championship. She

00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:54.679
missed it. At the moment where they're like on

00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:57.179
the tree branch. Yes. And then suddenly they

00:51:57.179 --> 00:52:00.059
come to her. And they helped celebrate her because

00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:02.139
of all the amazing things she did do. And so

00:52:02.139 --> 00:52:05.320
that became a moment of joy. And I just think

00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.880
it's really a good depiction of like, we can

00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:11.260
feel sadness. We can miss something. We can be

00:52:11.260 --> 00:52:13.519
having a hard time with something. And that's

00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:18.079
okay. It's okay to feel that. And we can also

00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:20.340
talk to somebody else about it and we can move

00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:23.119
forward. We can then embrace what comes next.

00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:25.420
We accept that sadness, but if we try to lock

00:52:25.420 --> 00:52:28.420
it down, we try to store it away, we try to hide

00:52:28.420 --> 00:52:30.599
those feelings, then it's going to end up coming

00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:32.619
out in this giant burst, much like it did with

00:52:32.619 --> 00:52:36.440
Riley, right? And it can eat you alive, depending

00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:39.019
on what those emotions are. Yeah, and they can

00:52:39.019 --> 00:52:40.519
turn into a lot of other things, too. I think

00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:41.860
what we see with Riley, which, again, is just

00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:43.119
a great depiction, is it turning into a bunch

00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:45.659
of anger, right? Anger comes out, and then suddenly

00:52:45.659 --> 00:52:48.440
anger is controlling everything. And he's taking

00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:50.380
control of all the controls, and he's pushing

00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:52.099
everybody off, and he's doing it all, and she's

00:52:52.099 --> 00:52:54.400
just firing away. Well, and there's no... Is

00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.300
he the one that puts the idea in where they couldn't

00:52:57.300 --> 00:52:59.739
get the light bulb out? Yes. Where it's like,

00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:02.619
no, we're stuck on this path now? Yep. It's dangerous

00:53:02.619 --> 00:53:05.900
when you just let everything just kind of fester.

00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:08.500
Yeah. Because naturally, it will all kind of

00:53:08.500 --> 00:53:11.360
turn into anger at some point anyway. Yeah. I

00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:15.920
think this is skipping over to Inside Out 2.

00:53:16.019 --> 00:53:20.440
You talk about when... joy embraces sadness that

00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.219
was one of the biggest moments for me in the

00:53:23.219 --> 00:53:27.500
second one is when joy embraces riley like that

00:53:27.500 --> 00:53:30.260
i don't even remember what it was like her personality

00:53:30.260 --> 00:53:33.659
that's constantly changing from yeah happy to

00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:35.139
sad to anxious and all these different things

00:53:35.139 --> 00:53:36.519
and she just you know and then they all come

00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:39.559
in and hug them like i think that's kind of a

00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:41.639
good depiction as well of what happens when we

00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:45.030
allow ourselves to truly feel those emotions,

00:53:45.190 --> 00:53:48.429
have those hard conversations and not just let

00:53:48.429 --> 00:53:53.550
one emotion run everything. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

00:53:53.610 --> 00:53:55.969
I love that. All right. So let's take us to a

00:53:55.969 --> 00:53:57.670
couple of quick segments. Okay. We're having

00:53:57.670 --> 00:54:00.750
some fun. All right. So first segment is this

00:54:00.750 --> 00:54:04.349
or that. Okay. So you gotta be ready. You might

00:54:04.349 --> 00:54:06.670
have to defend it. If we think your pick is controversial,

00:54:06.909 --> 00:54:08.429
you know, we're going to have that whole conversation.

00:54:08.429 --> 00:54:11.510
I would never do such a thing. All right. So

00:54:11.510 --> 00:54:17.050
the first one. Joy or sadness? Oh, joy. Joy.

00:54:17.989 --> 00:54:20.690
Sadness is really good. Sadness is great, and

00:54:20.690 --> 00:54:25.510
it's... The actress that depicts her, I mean...

00:54:25.510 --> 00:54:27.309
From The Office? From The Office. She's fantastic.

00:54:27.329 --> 00:54:28.730
Played Phyllis? I don't know what her real name

00:54:28.730 --> 00:54:31.329
is. Is it Phyllis? It's her real name. It's her

00:54:31.329 --> 00:54:33.510
real name. I don't know what her last name is,

00:54:33.590 --> 00:54:35.489
but I was just waiting for her to say, like,

00:54:35.489 --> 00:54:38.170
Van's Refrigeration at some point during Inside

00:54:38.170 --> 00:54:41.530
Out. But no, I love... That's a hard one because

00:54:41.530 --> 00:54:44.309
they play so well off of each other in that movie.

00:54:45.590 --> 00:54:47.730
But I actually think we get a lot of, even though

00:54:47.730 --> 00:54:49.289
joy is the emotion, we get a lot of different

00:54:49.289 --> 00:54:52.349
emotions from joy. And so I really like the way

00:54:52.349 --> 00:54:54.349
that that's depicted in the movie. So I'd have

00:54:54.349 --> 00:54:58.269
to go with joy. Love it. Minnesota or San Francisco?

00:54:58.329 --> 00:55:01.489
San Francisco. You've been to Minnesota? No,

00:55:01.570 --> 00:55:04.170
that's why it's San Francisco. Just a layover

00:55:04.170 --> 00:55:05.409
for me. It was the only time I've ever been there.

00:55:05.449 --> 00:55:07.730
Same. And it was cold, and I was like, oh, okay,

00:55:07.869 --> 00:55:09.570
it's cold, like everybody says. If it's anything

00:55:09.570 --> 00:55:12.329
like Michigan, like I loved Michigan. I mean,

00:55:12.329 --> 00:55:14.329
we already talked about that. But I froze in

00:55:14.329 --> 00:55:19.230
Michigan. It was so cold. So I just couldn't

00:55:19.230 --> 00:55:20.630
do that. There's parts of my spine that are still

00:55:20.630 --> 00:55:23.010
frozen, and I got home 20 years ago. Like it's

00:55:23.010 --> 00:55:27.059
so cold, it just cuts right through you. I love

00:55:27.059 --> 00:55:29.039
San Francisco. I've had a chance to go a handful

00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:31.880
of times. Went to a 49ers game the last time

00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:35.460
I was there. Yes. It's such a great city. We've

00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:38.400
only been once. We took all the kids. Unfortunately,

00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:40.659
it was only a preseason game. We did go to a

00:55:40.659 --> 00:55:42.519
Niner game. Still loved it. Talk about a great

00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:44.860
stadium. Oh, yeah. That is a great stadium. And

00:55:44.860 --> 00:55:48.139
it was funny. When I was re -watching Inside

00:55:48.139 --> 00:55:50.860
Out, when they moved to San Francisco, they show.

00:55:51.260 --> 00:55:53.000
the windy street. I can't remember what it's

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.079
called. My kids are like, we've been there. We've

00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:57.860
been there. I was like, yes, we have. That's

00:55:57.860 --> 00:56:00.119
a dad moment paying off. Take the kids traveling

00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:02.179
and they recognize things. I love it. It's perfect.

00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:04.079
It's, it's, you know, it's core memories. Yeah,

00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:06.239
totally is. Yeah. So I love it. Every time they

00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:07.579
see that street, they'll remember that trip,

00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:10.480
which is kind of fun. Okay. Imagination land

00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:15.199
or bing bongs rocket. I don't know either one

00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:19.440
of them. So, so bing bongs rocket is when. bing

00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:21.699
bong and joy are like trapped in the in this

00:56:21.699 --> 00:56:24.480
pit oh and she can't get out yeah for some reason

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.219
i went to like rides oh yeah so this is the movie

00:56:27.219 --> 00:56:29.539
this is the movie and so to get out they have

00:56:29.539 --> 00:56:32.059
to like believe and try to do it and then ultimately

00:56:32.059 --> 00:56:33.599
she's only able to get out because bing bong

00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:36.079
like gives her the last shove she finally gets

00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:40.019
out of it yeah yeah imagination land in her head

00:56:40.019 --> 00:56:42.460
is fun but the rocket carries so much more like

00:56:42.460 --> 00:56:44.880
emotion in the movie Yeah, and I can only really

00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.739
remember three parts. There's the Cloud City

00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:50.000
part, which is clever. Something having to do

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.619
with French fries, and I'm not a big French fry

00:56:51.619 --> 00:56:54.519
person. You're not? No. Now that's controversial.

00:56:54.579 --> 00:56:57.039
I will eat them when they're warm. As soon as

00:56:57.039 --> 00:56:58.780
they cool off, I'm like, we're done. I will give

00:56:58.780 --> 00:57:02.039
you that, 100%. And you can't reheat them. No.

00:57:02.099 --> 00:57:03.980
People try to have leftover fries. I'm like,

00:57:04.019 --> 00:57:07.420
heathens. No. Okay, you want controversy? Those

00:57:07.420 --> 00:57:12.280
that dip their fries in a Wendy's Frosty, blasphemy.

00:57:12.969 --> 00:57:15.969
You know what? I actually agree. I don't like

00:57:15.969 --> 00:57:17.849
it at all. I don't either, especially if the

00:57:17.849 --> 00:57:19.389
fries are warm because then it just melts and

00:57:19.389 --> 00:57:22.309
it just tastes like a fry. And for some reason,

00:57:22.329 --> 00:57:24.429
it's this big thing, and I don't get it. It's

00:57:24.429 --> 00:57:26.110
not good for me. I don't either. I do love fries,

00:57:26.170 --> 00:57:28.750
though. They do need to be piping hot. You can

00:57:28.750 --> 00:57:31.150
be piping hot fries. Salty or like the ones,

00:57:31.309 --> 00:57:33.750
I can't remember what they're called, but where

00:57:33.750 --> 00:57:39.150
they come with like the cheese and oregano or

00:57:39.150 --> 00:57:42.309
something on it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they have them

00:57:42.309 --> 00:57:46.510
at Disney, a number of places. I can't remember

00:57:46.510 --> 00:57:48.670
what they're called now. But those are really

00:57:48.670 --> 00:57:53.010
good. But I also prefer the shoestring fries.

00:57:53.309 --> 00:57:55.210
Really? I like them when they're crispy. Skinny

00:57:55.210 --> 00:57:58.110
ones? Skinny crispy, huh? Yep. I think I like

00:57:58.110 --> 00:58:01.269
all. I love McDonald's. I love the waffle fries

00:58:01.269 --> 00:58:03.409
at Chick -fil -A. I love the crinkle cut fries

00:58:03.409 --> 00:58:08.550
at Culver's. I just love fries. This is how bad

00:58:08.550 --> 00:58:10.829
it's going. When I go to Culver's, I get the

00:58:10.829 --> 00:58:13.570
cheese curds instead of fries. And they're not

00:58:13.570 --> 00:58:16.309
that good. They're not bad. The cheese curds

00:58:16.309 --> 00:58:18.369
aren't bad. I kind of like them, but I do prefer

00:58:18.369 --> 00:58:20.710
their fries. They also have good fry sauce, but

00:58:20.710 --> 00:58:23.230
that's a Utah thing, so I'm the fry sauce guy.

00:58:23.710 --> 00:58:33.150
Okay. Text or voice memo? Voice memo. You are

00:58:33.150 --> 00:58:35.210
not the first person that's told me that recently.

00:58:35.469 --> 00:58:38.550
I mean, I'm just shocked. People do that apparently

00:58:38.550 --> 00:58:42.090
a lot. If the person I'm talking to is open to

00:58:42.090 --> 00:58:44.469
it, I prefer to do that. Marco Polo, like I was

00:58:44.469 --> 00:58:46.309
listening to one on the way here. Marco Polo,

00:58:46.309 --> 00:58:48.789
I love that because it's nice when you can actually

00:58:48.789 --> 00:58:51.349
see the person you're talking to. But even then

00:58:51.349 --> 00:58:56.530
with voice texting, it's like there's so, and

00:58:56.530 --> 00:58:58.289
again, talking about communication, if you're

00:58:58.289 --> 00:59:00.110
just texting, there's so much that can be lost

00:59:00.110 --> 00:59:03.590
and misinterpreted. If you send a big text, like

00:59:03.590 --> 00:59:07.070
I think there's even a Keenan Peele commercial

00:59:07.070 --> 00:59:09.590
about that, where it's just like, hey, you know,

00:59:09.590 --> 00:59:12.130
are we still meeting at the bar? Like, why are

00:59:12.130 --> 00:59:13.630
you so aggressive? Like, why are you why are

00:59:13.630 --> 00:59:15.929
you? And he's like, oh, just happy. Like, oh,

00:59:15.929 --> 00:59:18.070
yeah. Are we still meeting at the bar? And Peele's

00:59:18.070 --> 00:59:21.230
like, are we still meeting at the bar? What do

00:59:21.230 --> 00:59:23.650
you mean? Question mark. He's like, oh, yeah,

00:59:23.710 --> 00:59:25.289
I thought we were like one of them is just so

00:59:25.289 --> 00:59:27.269
happy. The other person just looks like he's

00:59:27.269 --> 00:59:30.250
pissed at the world. And it's just a very, you

00:59:30.250 --> 00:59:34.440
know. Easygoing conversation. So I don't like

00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:37.360
the fact that that can happen when you text.

00:59:37.420 --> 00:59:39.219
Plus, to make sure that that doesn't happen in

00:59:39.219 --> 00:59:41.239
my text messages, and my friends will attest

00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:44.380
to this, I have a tendency to use emojis way

00:59:44.380 --> 00:59:46.840
too much. Do they know that I'm joking or something?

00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.679
So when they can actually hear the inflection

00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:52.320
of my voice, I prefer that. That's why when I

00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:55.349
text, I mean, I'm... emoji or i'm almost always

00:59:55.349 --> 00:59:58.449
throwing a haha yeah or an lol yep because i

00:59:58.449 --> 01:00:00.550
want them to know this is like this is like it's

01:00:00.550 --> 01:00:04.530
not serious yes like let's it's fun yeah it's

01:00:04.530 --> 01:00:07.070
i you you might be convincing me this again you're

01:00:07.070 --> 01:00:08.550
the second person who i respect their opinion

01:00:08.550 --> 01:00:10.510
who's told me voice memos are like the thing

01:00:10.510 --> 01:00:12.769
i might have to do more of that because i talk

01:00:12.769 --> 01:00:15.889
to text why not just do it as a voice memo talk

01:00:15.889 --> 01:00:19.010
to talk i mean it's just it's the only downfall

01:00:19.010 --> 01:00:21.780
to it And I don't know if Android has this, but

01:00:21.780 --> 01:00:23.500
for iPhone, when you're sending a voice memo,

01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:27.400
it caps at five minutes. So it'll just stop the

01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:28.960
message at five minutes. That drives me crazy.

01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:32.719
You said some long ones. I'm thinking five minutes

01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:37.699
is forever. Well, you should hear my Marco Polos.

01:00:37.780 --> 01:00:42.820
I've sent some 25, 30 minutes. It depends on

01:00:42.820 --> 01:00:44.619
the conversation and who you're talking to and

01:00:44.619 --> 01:00:45.980
everything. And sometimes you just really have

01:00:45.980 --> 01:00:49.199
to vent. Yeah, apparently. My goodness. Let it

01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:52.179
go. Yeah, I mean, for me, as long as I can then

01:00:52.179 --> 01:00:54.420
replay it in, you know, time and a half or double

01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:57.659
speed, I'm good to go. Which you can. Yeah. It's

01:00:57.659 --> 01:01:01.119
an option. Okay, next one is Disneyland or Disney

01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:04.940
World? Okay. Even though, I guess Disney World

01:01:04.940 --> 01:01:06.079
was your first, but it was a bad experience.

01:01:07.900 --> 01:01:10.280
Was that where you got lost? That is where I

01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:12.219
got lost, yes. It's not even so much that, because,

01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:16.230
like, we actually went to Disneyland. Not too

01:01:16.230 --> 01:01:18.210
long after that, I think I was four or five.

01:01:18.769 --> 01:01:21.289
The only thing I remember is we stayed at a hotel

01:01:21.289 --> 01:01:24.869
directly across from the Disneyland entrance

01:01:24.869 --> 01:01:27.090
because California Adventure wasn't there. And

01:01:27.090 --> 01:01:29.190
so it had that big main street and all these

01:01:29.190 --> 01:01:34.269
hotels and stuff. And I remember that and I remember

01:01:34.269 --> 01:01:38.550
my family having a good time. For me, I think

01:01:38.550 --> 01:01:41.389
it actually carries into when I got reintroduced

01:01:41.389 --> 01:01:44.230
to Disney and going to parks and stuff. I had

01:01:44.230 --> 01:01:49.409
so much just the feelings that I have. It's like

01:01:49.409 --> 01:01:50.809
I talked about at the beginning. You walked in

01:01:50.809 --> 01:01:53.590
and just like, okay, this is awesome. This is

01:01:53.590 --> 01:01:57.030
where I'm supposed to be. And I love Disney World

01:01:57.030 --> 01:01:59.989
as well. Not as much, but I love it as well.

01:02:00.369 --> 01:02:03.010
I have never had that feeling walking into a

01:02:03.010 --> 01:02:06.590
park at Disney World. Ever. I love the rides.

01:02:06.650 --> 01:02:08.150
I love the experiences. They have some things

01:02:08.150 --> 01:02:12.210
there that you can't get at Disneyland. When

01:02:12.210 --> 01:02:16.110
I go into Disney, it's just, I'm just happy.

01:02:16.230 --> 01:02:19.789
This is great. Plus, there's so many, I mean,

01:02:19.849 --> 01:02:22.610
four parks, they're far apart. They are. It's

01:02:22.610 --> 01:02:24.730
harder to do. You can't park hop with those ones.

01:02:24.809 --> 01:02:26.590
At least I don't think you should. You lose too

01:02:26.590 --> 01:02:28.929
much time. I did all four parks in one day before.

01:02:28.929 --> 01:02:31.710
Oh, that sounds horrible. Yeah. That sounds horrible.

01:02:31.869 --> 01:02:33.889
It was rough. Yeah. They need a Tron ride, too.

01:02:34.429 --> 01:02:36.340
They are. Because you like Magic Kingdom. They're

01:02:36.340 --> 01:02:38.079
bringing the Tron ride? That's what I've heard.

01:02:38.219 --> 01:02:41.119
Oh, my goodness. That ride is unbelievable. So,

01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:44.659
you know, in Disneyland, I cannot remember the

01:02:44.659 --> 01:02:50.280
name of the ride. So there's the Nemo ride with

01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:53.059
the submarines and stuff. And there's the, what

01:02:53.059 --> 01:02:58.380
is it called? Autopia. Yeah. Apparently, this,

01:02:58.500 --> 01:03:00.800
I guess, is not technically official, but it's

01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:02.679
been floated that they're going to get rid of

01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:06.159
Nemo. They're going to get rid of... I can't

01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:07.679
even say the name right. And they're going to

01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:11.219
put Tron in there, which would be, because that's

01:03:11.219 --> 01:03:13.019
Tomorrowland. That's the perfect spot to put

01:03:13.019 --> 01:03:16.380
it. That's right where it should go. See, I would

01:03:16.380 --> 01:03:18.179
love that. I've got to imagine that's going to

01:03:18.179 --> 01:03:20.519
be controversial because, I mean, Autopia goes

01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:23.099
back to the opening of Disneyland, right? Like

01:03:23.099 --> 01:03:27.280
it was there at the opening. But there's so much

01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:33.219
that, if you honestly were to tally up the number

01:03:33.219 --> 01:03:36.139
of people, who go to Disneyland in a given year,

01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:38.760
what percentage of them do you think have actually

01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.380
ridden that ride? Autopia? Yeah. That's a great

01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:44.880
question. I have gone at least once a year for

01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:47.420
the last 10 years. And you never go? I have never

01:03:47.420 --> 01:03:50.420
ridden it. You've never? See, there's actually

01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:53.659
a pretty long line most days. Okay, let's take

01:03:53.659 --> 01:03:56.400
you to our rapid fire, okay? So first one that

01:03:56.400 --> 01:03:58.219
comes to your mind, it's mostly Disney related,

01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:04.980
of course. Favorite Disney movie? We're talking

01:04:04.980 --> 01:04:08.840
Disney as a whole, Disney classic, Pixar. Whatever

01:04:08.840 --> 01:04:12.340
you want it to mean. Toy Story. Okay. Love that.

01:04:12.659 --> 01:04:16.159
Favorite Disney song? Ooh, out there, Hunchback.

01:04:17.420 --> 01:04:21.380
Okay. I've played him twice on stage. So that's

01:04:21.380 --> 01:04:23.280
why. I have a soft spot. So wait, you can sing

01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:27.960
then. I'm okay. Man, I'm jealous. I really love

01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:29.639
the theater, and I can't sing it all though.

01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.019
And so it's really limiting on what you can be

01:04:32.019 --> 01:04:35.099
in because... Musical theater is just, it's more

01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:36.659
popular, more people go, there's more opportunities.

01:04:37.139 --> 01:04:41.179
It's fair, but also, I mean, the last two musicals

01:04:41.179 --> 01:04:44.059
that I've been in didn't sing a note. Oh, you

01:04:44.059 --> 01:04:45.699
were just... No, I just did Fiddler on the Roof

01:04:45.699 --> 01:04:47.900
at the Ruth down in Orem. Oh, did you? I was

01:04:47.900 --> 01:04:50.079
the constable. He doesn't sing. No kidding. So

01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:51.719
it was purely acting for me, but I got a chance

01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:54.019
to enjoy everybody else doing stuff, and then

01:04:54.019 --> 01:04:56.900
I did Newsies at the Hale here in Sandy, and

01:04:56.900 --> 01:04:58.800
I was Weasel. I was the guy that hands out all

01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:00.619
the newspapers. He doesn't sing in the entire

01:05:00.619 --> 01:05:02.630
show. Wow, amazing. So there's opportunities.

01:05:02.650 --> 01:05:04.429
There are opportunities, it sounds like. So maybe

01:05:04.429 --> 01:05:06.530
I need to look into those opportunities because

01:05:06.530 --> 01:05:09.309
I do love the theater. Favorite Disney princess?

01:05:10.389 --> 01:05:16.630
Oh, Rapunzel. This is a good one. Favorite Disney

01:05:16.630 --> 01:05:25.409
villain? Oh, shoot. Okay, I think it's a tie.

01:05:26.309 --> 01:05:30.690
Again, because I have the hunchback. So Frollo's

01:05:30.690 --> 01:05:34.429
one, but I also really like Hades. Hades is so

01:05:34.429 --> 01:05:38.110
good. I get that one a lot. He's so fun. He is.

01:05:38.269 --> 01:05:41.510
And was it James Woods that voices him? Talk

01:05:41.510 --> 01:05:44.469
about perfect casting. Like you can get scared

01:05:44.469 --> 01:05:45.969
of him at some moments, like when he loses his

01:05:45.969 --> 01:05:47.110
temper and all the stuff that he's doing is very

01:05:47.110 --> 01:05:49.570
sinister. But he's also like, what, my hair go

01:05:49.570 --> 01:05:51.869
out? You know, just there's an aspect of humor

01:05:51.869 --> 01:05:53.750
there that you don't really get ever in a Disney

01:05:53.750 --> 01:05:55.889
villain. It's totally true. It's totally true.

01:05:55.949 --> 01:05:58.829
I love Hades. Favorite Disney park you have visited?

01:06:00.690 --> 01:06:05.250
Disneyland. Fair. That's fair. Let me take out

01:06:05.250 --> 01:06:06.869
Disneyland from the mix and re -ask the question.

01:06:07.389 --> 01:06:09.050
Disneyland itself, you can't. You could do Disney

01:06:09.050 --> 01:06:11.510
California Adventure in any other park. Which

01:06:11.510 --> 01:06:16.590
one would you prefer? Because there's components

01:06:16.590 --> 01:06:18.710
of every one that I like. What makes it hard?

01:06:21.230 --> 01:06:24.789
There's one thing that will always win. It's

01:06:24.789 --> 01:06:26.349
my favorite thing to do any time I go to California.

01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:29.219
So I'm going to say California Adventure solely

01:06:29.219 --> 01:06:33.820
because they have World of Color. I absolutely

01:06:33.820 --> 01:06:36.059
love World of Color. It's so good. I will get

01:06:36.059 --> 01:06:37.440
emotional almost every single time I watch it.

01:06:37.539 --> 01:06:41.320
Yeah, it's amazing. So that one wins. I can totally

01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.380
understand that one. Okay, and then the last

01:06:43.380 --> 01:06:45.780
rapid fire we're going to go with is which Disney

01:06:45.780 --> 01:06:49.780
park is next on your bucket list? Tokyo. Tokyo,

01:06:49.820 --> 01:06:53.380
that's the one. Both Tokyo Disney and Tokyo DisneySea?

01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:55.340
Yeah. Okay. Because if you're there, you may

01:06:55.340 --> 01:06:56.500
as well do them both. That's the plan. Well,

01:06:56.579 --> 01:07:00.019
I mean, if I'm there, I have a tendency to not

01:07:00.019 --> 01:07:04.760
do vacations small. So if I'm going to be there,

01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:08.800
and I did this before, a couple years ago, my

01:07:08.800 --> 01:07:12.579
last job, we had a customer where they almost

01:07:12.579 --> 01:07:14.260
went with us. And if they had, I was going to

01:07:14.260 --> 01:07:16.960
be their customer success manager. And it was

01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:20.400
in Thailand, I believe. And so my manager, who

01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:23.739
spoke Thai, was just like, hey, if we get them,

01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:26.119
They have said that we have to come out to them

01:07:26.119 --> 01:07:30.179
to get them set up with our software. And I was

01:07:30.179 --> 01:07:32.500
like, okay. I instantly started checking how

01:07:32.500 --> 01:07:35.400
far I would be. And I did the math of, like,

01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:37.679
how much tickets were. If I'm going to Tokyo,

01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:39.659
I'm doing Shanghai and Hong Kong at the same

01:07:39.659 --> 01:07:42.719
time. So it's going to be DisneySea, Tokyo, then

01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:44.840
over to Shanghai, then over to Hong Kong. Love

01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:47.719
that. Then back to Tokyo and flying home. So

01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:49.500
I'll be gone for a couple weeks. That sounds

01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:51.119
amazing, right? Like I'm going to have to have

01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:53.079
you do my travel plans for me because that sounds

01:07:53.079 --> 01:07:55.840
like an ideal trip. We talked before the podcast

01:07:55.840 --> 01:07:57.519
about you've got to know the right people to

01:07:57.519 --> 01:07:59.860
get the right deals. You do. If I can find the

01:07:59.860 --> 01:08:02.000
right deal, I will jump on it. Man, that would

01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:05.400
be amazing. This sounds phenomenal. So what we

01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:07.500
like to do at the end of every episode is we

01:08:07.500 --> 01:08:10.000
like to give three actionable takeaways to our

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:13.619
audience. And so on this topic of improving communication.

01:08:14.380 --> 01:08:17.420
What are three actionable takeaways that you

01:08:17.420 --> 01:08:19.840
could give? So the first one that came to mind

01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:23.260
with this was we've talked a lot about active

01:08:23.260 --> 01:08:27.619
listening and being very present in the conversations

01:08:27.619 --> 01:08:30.260
that are taking place. One of the things that

01:08:30.260 --> 01:08:34.399
I have tried to put into practice is something

01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:37.359
I think that anybody can apply to themselves,

01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:39.539
whether you're giving the advice and starting

01:08:39.539 --> 01:08:42.760
the communication or you're receiving. Take a

01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:48.399
breath. before you respond just take a beat inhale

01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:51.760
exhale go gives you the opportunity to make sure

01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:55.140
you're not responding on pure emotion gets the

01:08:55.140 --> 01:08:57.000
opportunity to make sure that you are actually

01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.100
going to articulate what you're going to say

01:08:59.100 --> 01:09:01.859
not with a lot of like ums or you know i don't

01:09:01.859 --> 01:09:03.920
really understand what i'm saying so to actually

01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:06.319
give what you're saying a bit more credence and

01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:11.039
it just allows the conversation to flow a bit

01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:15.130
more naturally, and depending on the circumstances,

01:09:15.130 --> 01:09:17.829
a bit more professionally. So that's one of the

01:09:17.829 --> 01:09:20.630
first ones that I thought of. First one would

01:09:20.630 --> 01:09:24.729
be in some conversation this week that maybe

01:09:24.729 --> 01:09:28.869
is a little more intense. Yeah. Take a good long

01:09:28.869 --> 01:09:30.890
breath before you respond. Or two, if you need

01:09:30.890 --> 01:09:32.770
to. There's nothing that says you have to just

01:09:32.770 --> 01:09:36.260
respond right away. Love that. What else? The

01:09:36.260 --> 01:09:38.359
second one I think would be one that I mentioned

01:09:38.359 --> 01:09:40.539
before, and that's being mindful of how you're

01:09:40.539 --> 01:09:44.380
being perceived in the conversation. So, you

01:09:44.380 --> 01:09:48.079
know, not just being so locked in that you look

01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:51.819
like you're, you know, so zoned out or like you're

01:09:51.819 --> 01:09:53.460
upset or anything like that. I've gotten that

01:09:53.460 --> 01:09:55.819
straight up, gotten that feedback in a meeting

01:09:55.819 --> 01:09:58.500
where someone asked, are you okay? I'm like,

01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:02.819
yes, this is just my face. Our director actually

01:10:02.819 --> 01:10:04.180
chimed in. It's like, yeah, he gets that a lot.

01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:09.619
So they know. If you're aware of that, and even

01:10:09.619 --> 01:10:11.659
kind of in my circumstance, you make a bit of

01:10:11.659 --> 01:10:13.039
a joke and be like, yeah, this is just who he

01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:16.819
is. But if you're aware of it, then you can be

01:10:16.819 --> 01:10:18.760
more mindful of that in the conversations, especially

01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:21.140
if you are running the conversation. Like if

01:10:21.140 --> 01:10:22.539
you're in a one -on -one with somebody, if you're

01:10:22.539 --> 01:10:27.359
in an interview with somebody, having that mindset.

01:10:28.240 --> 01:10:30.699
of like, how am I being perceived? Not from an

01:10:30.699 --> 01:10:32.399
ego standpoint, but just like, how is this person

01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:34.319
seeing me? And is there anything that I'm doing

01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:35.840
or the way that I'm presenting myself that would

01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:36.840
make it to where they're not going to listen

01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:38.979
to what I have to say? Yeah, so good. Yeah, so

01:10:38.979 --> 01:10:43.300
good. Number three. Number three. I kind of bounce

01:10:43.300 --> 01:10:46.979
back and forth on some of these. So number three,

01:10:46.979 --> 01:10:50.180
I think would be, again, something we've kind

01:10:50.180 --> 01:10:52.260
of touched on, but that's the human element.

01:10:52.399 --> 01:10:57.079
Make sure it's not, you know, manager and subordinate.

01:10:57.529 --> 01:11:00.010
It's having the conversation. It's not director

01:11:00.010 --> 01:11:01.810
and manager that's having the conversation. In

01:11:01.810 --> 01:11:04.510
some cases, not even like in my role, it's not

01:11:04.510 --> 01:11:07.649
a CSM and a customer that's having the conversation.

01:11:08.270 --> 01:11:11.729
It's a human to a human. You have to have that

01:11:11.729 --> 01:11:18.109
approach. So in the right context, know when

01:11:18.109 --> 01:11:21.229
it's okay to remove the business element and

01:11:21.229 --> 01:11:25.909
just talk as people. maintaining professionalism.

01:11:25.930 --> 01:11:29.569
That's a key thing in all of this, but you have

01:11:29.569 --> 01:11:31.170
to have that, you know, find those opportunities.

01:11:32.050 --> 01:11:33.989
And that could be something to where it's like,

01:11:34.069 --> 01:11:34.970
Hey, if you're struggling with something, it's

01:11:34.970 --> 01:11:36.970
like, if you, if you want to listen, you want

01:11:36.970 --> 01:11:38.329
me to want to talk, I want me to listen. I'm

01:11:38.329 --> 01:11:43.869
happy to do so. One example I had to, to try

01:11:43.869 --> 01:11:45.710
to help one of my customers calm down. Cause

01:11:45.710 --> 01:11:47.810
he had a lot of frustrations. We would talk about

01:11:47.810 --> 01:11:49.430
fantasy football for 10 minutes before every,

01:11:49.449 --> 01:11:51.390
every meeting before we got into the actual meat

01:11:51.390 --> 01:11:54.350
of what we were discussing. Yeah. And. He was

01:11:54.350 --> 01:11:57.510
on cloud nine before we even started talking

01:11:57.510 --> 01:11:59.949
about business. So it's just, just take those

01:11:59.949 --> 01:12:03.949
opportunities. It humanized him to you and you

01:12:03.949 --> 01:12:06.529
to him. A hundred percent. Yeah. So then suddenly

01:12:06.529 --> 01:12:08.329
when you have that human to human connection

01:12:08.329 --> 01:12:11.390
and both sides see it that way, now you can actually

01:12:11.390 --> 01:12:14.050
operate on a different plane. Yeah. Because you're,

01:12:14.050 --> 01:12:15.630
you're not only, you're not only viewing them

01:12:15.630 --> 01:12:18.399
as a person, but. Ideally, you're building that

01:12:18.399 --> 01:12:20.260
connection. You're building a relationship. You're

01:12:20.260 --> 01:12:22.760
building rapport. And so now if you have to have

01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:25.579
harder conversations with somebody, they're much

01:12:25.579 --> 01:12:27.939
more apt to listen. They're much more aware of

01:12:27.939 --> 01:12:29.560
what you're saying and that where that is coming

01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:31.800
from is a place of understanding, is a place

01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:34.960
of respect, and honestly a place of wanting them

01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:37.420
to be the most successful they could be, whether

01:12:37.420 --> 01:12:39.720
that's a customer you're talking to or an employee

01:12:39.720 --> 01:12:43.239
or a coworker, whatever the role might be. Phenomenal.

01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:46.130
Phenomenal. BJ, thank you so much for being on

01:12:46.130 --> 01:12:48.710
with us today, sharing your wisdom, your love

01:12:48.710 --> 01:12:51.109
for Disney, all things inside out. It's been

01:12:51.109 --> 01:12:52.970
a pleasure. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

01:12:53.949 --> 01:12:56.770
As you leave this conversation, remember that

01:12:56.770 --> 01:12:59.609
yes, the past can hurt and you can either run

01:12:59.609 --> 01:13:02.810
from it or you can learn from it. So here's to

01:13:02.810 --> 01:13:06.329
learning and finding joy in the journey. See

01:13:06.329 --> 01:13:06.829
you real soon.