Dream Chasing and the Magic of Disney Imagineering | Bob Weiss on Building Impossible Dreams

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Oftentimes, you might walk into a meeting with

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your idea, but by the time you leave the meeting,

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it's our idea. You know, because somebody's added

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to it. Somebody else has made a great comment.

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That's the magic of it. And the magic of it is

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the collaboration. Well, the silliest thing anyone

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tells you, Brian, is a project's been canceled

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and someone will say, well, just don't take it

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personally. Well, it's you. There's no way not

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to take it personally. Creative output. is coming

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from you and your team members. So everybody

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takes it personally. And then one of the things

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you wrote is dreams are elusive and always pulling

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at you. They seem to always be right around the

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corner, but you never really know what you're

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chasing until you catch it. It turns out to be

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real magic. The chase will have been worth it.

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Well, I had planned this. I had the entire WI

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patio loaded with 750 people ready to see Bob

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Unger. So he thought I was probably going to

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go back to the studio and there might be 10,

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15 people the way I described it. I said, well,

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it's just the team's gathering. So I walked out

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there. I walked out there with him. And he's

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like, what the heck? It was 750 people. And I'll

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tell you, Bob got up on the steps with me and

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Howard Brown, our team, gave an incredibly inspiring

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address. No preparation. Keep a very, very positive

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attitude about your own. Maybe that one will

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come true. Maybe the next one will come true.

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Maybe it'll be some combination of two things

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you want to do. But don't give up and just keep

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a very, very positive and collaborative attitude

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toward anything you want to do. Welcome to Yes

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And Land, where we say yes to the reality of

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yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility,

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growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Today, we

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are very excited to have Bob Weiss on the program

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with us. Bob has a storied career, over four

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decades with the Disney company. Started right

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out of college, basically. Did have a job prior

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to that during college, but started out in WED

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Enterprises, which is what Walt Disney Imagineering

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used to be called. And Bob has worked on all

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of the Disney parks worldwide. and some amazing

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experiences that he talks about in his wonderful

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book, Chasing Dreams. And just such a pleasure

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to have him on today to learn from him, to learn

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from the successes and failures that he had during

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his four decades with the Walt Disney Company.

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So, Bob, welcome to the program. Hey, Ryan, it's

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great to be here and great to have the conversation.

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And I feel so privileged that I was able to write

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this book, Dream Chasing, and I was able to get

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it out there and been able to meet people, have

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great conversations about people's dreams and

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how to chase them, how to fulfill them. So it's

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great to have a chance to have a conversation

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with you. And yeah, we're excited to learn about

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some of those, what your dreams were, what you

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were chasing, and what life lessons we can pull,

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we all can pull from the experiences that you

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had as we all kind of chase our dreams. One of

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the things that I wanted to kind of start with

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you about is taking it kind of all the way back

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to an experience you talked about in your book

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when you were a young lad, I believe nine years

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old, as I believe what it was. And you talked

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about first going to Disneyland and that that

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kind of gave you your first spark. And so I'm

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wondering if you can kind of take us back to

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that. What was it that you were feeling in? that

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time that you can remember that gave you that

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spark? What were the emotions you experienced

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that you felt like gave you the spark? Well,

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interesting in my generation, Disneyland opened

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in 1955. I was born in 1957. And I probably went

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to Disneyland by, let's say, 1961, 62, something

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like that. So I never knew a world without Disneyland.

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Like you, like you younger folks who never knew

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a world without Disney World and Disneyland.

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But I never knew the world without Disneyland.

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And Disneyland to me was a place that the family

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went once a year. You know, we didn't have this

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kind of pass where you could go every weekend

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or anything like that. It took a lot of energy

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and money to get passes. But my father was a

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member of the Magic Kingdom Club at his work.

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And he would sell, you know. accumulate, I guess,

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value during the year. And then once a year we

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go, and we kind of decided it was my birthday

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when we would go. So we always went right around

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Labor Day weekend. When's your birthday, Bob?

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My birthday is September 6th, so it was always

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around there. September 6th, all right. It was

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just a great, great experience. It was just something

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that you immediately sense, even as a kid. about

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Disneyland as being a real place, a place that

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has kind of high ideals, that makes people aspire

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to a wonderful, you know, kind of secure life

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and life is good and people get along together.

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It's just a general feeling of Disneyland of

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well -being, I think. And so I had that feeling.

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And even there were times I went, I wrote in

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the book, even there were times I went. I don't

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have it as an adult, but as a child, I had asthma

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periodically. Couldn't run and might have a bad

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day. And we were at Disneyland. It didn't matter.

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It was great. It's the greatest thing in the

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world. So I grew up with Disneyland. I grew up

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with an affection for Disneyland, as many young

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people who first go to Disneyland in their lives

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and then go repeatedly do. And I still feel that

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way. I still feel that. Sense of security, I

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guess, when I go through the gates. Now that

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I'm retired from Imagineering and I don't actively

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pursue projects anymore, it's even better because

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I don't have to be looking around saying, is

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there something wrong? Is there some paints chipping

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or somebody's doing the wrong thing? I don't

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have to. I just enjoy it like a guest, and I

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love that. When you started working for WED Enterprises,

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What was it you were trying to capture in the

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projects that you worked on so that others could

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experience Disney? Well, you know, I didn't know

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what WED Enterprises was. I had worked a summer

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at Disneyland, a summer and a fall at Disneyland

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in outdoor foods, which was popcorn and ice cream.

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And it's a great position to work at at Disneyland

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because you get to stay inside the park all day

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and you watch people and you see how it changes

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throughout the day. go on a shift, they push

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you someplace else. So you might be in Frontierland

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today, Tomorrowland tomorrow, the next day. And

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so it's a really great way to observe how Disneyland

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works. You know, I had an opportunity to work

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at Disneyland for a summer and a fall, and I

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was in outdoor foods, which was popcorn and ice

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cream. I was out on the street all the time.

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You learn so much about Disneyland and about

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the people because you're there all day and you're

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in different lands on different days. I kind

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of heard a little bit about this secretive group

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called WEN Enterprises. And it was because Space

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Mountain was under construction. And I remember

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asking, because I was in architecture school,

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I remember asking, you know, who does this kind

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of stuff for Disney? And they said, oh, it's

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a secret group, you know, WEN Enterprises. You

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know, you can't find out anything about them.

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It really was a secretive group. So it just happened,

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Ryan, if you can imagine, just like. complete

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accident that they came to recruit at my college

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when I was getting ready to graduate. And I had

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studied a combination of architecture where I

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got my degree and I studied a lot of theater.

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And I rushed around and I grabbed my portfolio

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and I went up and I met the recruiter and they

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thought it was a great fit. And that was a great

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opportunity for me. So back to your question

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now, when I started it at Thwed, I knew a lot

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about Disneyland. I probably knew a lot. more

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than many people who started at Wed because I

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had grown up there and seen it so many times

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and worked there a little bit. And my first job

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was building the first Disneyland outside the

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U .S., which is Tokyo. And it was essentially

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an adapted version of the Magic Kingdom in Florida,

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which I had also been to as kind of a teenager.

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Here I was and I was surrounded by people that

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had worked on Disneyland, you know, Bill Martin

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and Bob Gurr and people like that who were legends

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and now are recognized as legends. But at that

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point, they were kind of the senior people at

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WED and they were – some of them had come back

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from retirement even to work on Tokyo. And they

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treated us like we were their – you know, they're

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teaching us the ropes. They really were open.

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They were amazing mentors. And so you really

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got a great – it was a quick education on Disney

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and on how you build Disneyland and how they

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build Disneyland. So I feel privileged to have

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been there at that time. I kind of think of myself

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as part of the second generation of WED. The

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first generation worked for Walt. And then when

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Epcot started and TDL started, this sort of new

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generation flooded in because they needed a lot.

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bigger company to do those projects. And we were

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lucky just to be mentored by those incredible

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designers. What did you learn from the way they

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mentored you to then you mentoring other people

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as you came up? Because obviously you moved all

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the way up to being president of Walt Disney

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Imagineering, which is just phenomenal. And so

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you must have mentored a lot of people along

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the way. What lessons did you learn from them

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on how to mentor? I just finished a book, Ryan,

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my third book. I just finished it. It's just

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gone out to the publisher. And it's based on

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Marty Sklar, who is the leader. I was going to

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ask you about this book, Bob. I'm glad you brought

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it up. I'll tell you about it later. But I bring

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up Marty because he was a big proponent of what

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we called the hallway culture. And we used to

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use these big four -foot by eight -foot storyboards.

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Whenever you were going to present something,

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you pinned them on those. And those were actually

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moved over from the animation department at the

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studio. where you had to do frame -by -frame

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storyboards. So you had these big boards in your

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office, and you're pinning up whatever you're

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working on. And the offices were pretty small.

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So eventually, you had to put them in the hallway.

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And you put them so people walking by could see

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what you were working on. And people would stop.

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Anybody would stop and say, oh, what's this?

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And it made it a very open culture. It wasn't

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secretive. People would meet in the hallways,

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look at somebody's boards and say, oh, I think

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you should do this scene a little bit differently.

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Nobody had a problem either with advising somebody

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or taking advice. It was that kind of camaraderie,

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very casual camaraderie. And I'll tell you, Ryan,

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I had an office at one point at WED. And on one

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side of me was a complete legend, Sam McKim.

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who worked for the company for many, many years,

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was a child actor, did tons and tons of work

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and illustrations for the company. And on the

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other side was Exitensio. There's a new book

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out about Ex, but he's the guy that wrote, you

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know, Yo -Ho, Yo -Ho, A Pirate's Life for Me,

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did so much directing of voice and design. But

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they never acted like they were on a higher plane

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or anything. They were just guys. You know, now

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we think of them as Disney legends, but at that

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point they were just colleagues. Harriet Burns,

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who now is a Disney legend, was in the model

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shop, you know, building. Joyce Carlson is a

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legend. I worked with her because she came to

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Tokyo and helped us complete Small World. She

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worked on all the Small Worlds. So these are

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people who now are recognized for their incredible

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contribution but were so matter -of -fact and

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nice and helpful. So I took that on as my— as

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my mantle. You know, if people want to come see

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me or if they want to talk about their careers

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or, you know, where they want to go, so many

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people helped me that I try to help as many as

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possible. And, you know, you get, of course,

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it gets harder as you go up because you have

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more responsibilities, you have more people to

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talk to. But the best thing in the world for

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Marty, for me, for John Hinch, for anybody, I

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think, was walking the halls, walking around,

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seeing people and just having casual conversations.

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It's the best thing in the world. Absolutely.

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Yeah. And I mean, one of the things that you

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must have had with everybody there was there

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had to be a lack of probably ego and some kind

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of feeling of safety because to be able to put

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your work out there and be able to take the feedback

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that somebody gives, you've got to really remove

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your ego from that equation so that you can be

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receptive for it and feel like an environment

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that you can be vulnerable, that it is safe for

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you to do. So that's a very good description

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of it. And I think. I would tell you that it's

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still that way. I think it's still a very group

00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:22.889
-oriented process. It's collaborative. There

00:13:22.889 --> 00:13:25.250
are no superstars. People work together. There

00:13:25.250 --> 00:13:26.950
are the people who come up with ideas. There

00:13:26.950 --> 00:13:30.049
are people who are focused on making them a reality.

00:13:30.429 --> 00:13:33.210
They work together seamlessly. But back then,

00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:34.870
I think it was different because we had these

00:13:34.870 --> 00:13:37.990
folks who had been a part of the invention of

00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:40.870
things like the Haunted Mansion and Pirates of

00:13:40.870 --> 00:13:43.049
the Caribbean and those kind of things. But there

00:13:43.049 --> 00:13:45.549
was absolutely no ego associated with them. It

00:13:45.549 --> 00:13:47.129
was just like, oh, yeah, we do this. That's what

00:13:47.129 --> 00:13:50.070
we do. Claude Coates was the most humble guy

00:13:50.070 --> 00:13:55.690
in the world. They were incredible. And, you

00:13:55.690 --> 00:13:59.649
know, there wasn't a culture of these folks are

00:13:59.649 --> 00:14:03.250
legends or things. I'm so happy today that people

00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:07.450
are recognized as that because they did really

00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:11.659
great things in their creative careers. But it's

00:14:11.659 --> 00:14:13.700
interesting how I think back then the organization

00:14:13.700 --> 00:14:16.480
was very humble, just very collaborative. And

00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.600
I feel like even when I go back there, which

00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.440
I do quite a bit now, it's the same way. It's

00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.220
very humble. And, you know, you have a team and

00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:25.980
you have somebody that's been there for 30 years

00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:28.600
on the same team as somebody who just got here

00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.500
from college. And you will find, I think, in

00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:33.399
that kind of environment, and this probably applies

00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:35.220
to your audience whether they're in some other

00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:40.440
kind of business or not, The senior people of

00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:43.159
your company are really interested in what the

00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.100
younger people have to say because they're coming

00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:46.940
out of college. They have different skills. They

00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:50.100
have fresh ideas. And the young people are very

00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:52.279
interested in being mentored. So as long as you

00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.440
approach it right, it's a really collaborative,

00:14:54.620 --> 00:14:58.850
great mentorship possibility. Yeah, and I think

00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:01.769
the organizations that can find a way to do that

00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:04.190
are ones that can have a much better culture

00:15:04.190 --> 00:15:06.610
inside the organization. I think one of the things,

00:15:06.690 --> 00:15:09.549
just from my perspective in the legal world and

00:15:09.549 --> 00:15:12.529
law firms, is sometimes, unfortunately, that's

00:15:12.529 --> 00:15:15.490
not the case. Sometimes you'll get lawyers who

00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:18.970
have experience who do get those egos, and they

00:15:18.970 --> 00:15:21.149
aren't willing to mentor. And I think it's really

00:15:21.149 --> 00:15:23.750
short -sighted. I think if we want to do something

00:15:23.750 --> 00:15:26.220
or build something that's more enduring, where

00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:28.320
people want to be and they want to stay, you've

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.500
got to have that positive culture where it is

00:15:30.500 --> 00:15:33.320
more about collaboration and mentorship and working

00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.899
together to build something better. There's a

00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:38.480
few quotes I want to ask you about. One that

00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:39.940
came up, and I want to kind of get your take

00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:42.960
on this. And it's a quote you'll recognize. It's

00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.379
from Walt, of course. And he said, all our dreams

00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:48.740
can come true if we have the courage to pursue

00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:51.629
them. And so when I hear something like that,

00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:53.110
it talks, you know, he's talking about courage.

00:15:53.129 --> 00:15:55.210
I mean, courage to pursue them, which means to

00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:57.250
some degree, if we're going to be courageous,

00:15:57.350 --> 00:15:59.309
it means that there must be some fear that's

00:15:59.309 --> 00:16:01.690
there because otherwise it's not courageous to

00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:03.870
pursue it if there's not fear. In your career,

00:16:03.889 --> 00:16:06.950
when you were taking on new challenges, what

00:16:06.950 --> 00:16:09.889
fears did you have or did you face as you were

00:16:09.889 --> 00:16:12.129
approaching things that were sometimes these

00:16:12.129 --> 00:16:14.889
huge things that you were doing like Shanghai

00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:17.610
Disney or Tokyo DisneySea, those types of things?

00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:21.039
Well, that's a great thing for us to talk about,

00:16:21.139 --> 00:16:25.120
Ryan. And as you know, my book is titled Dream

00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.279
Chasing. And we were actually about – I was about

00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.139
halfway through the book. I say we because I

00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:35.080
had a wonderful editor at Disney who didn't write

00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.740
anything for me, but she guided me through the

00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:39.360
process. I had never written anything like this

00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:44.799
before. And about halfway through, she said,

00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:47.379
you know what this is about? You're writing about

00:16:47.379 --> 00:16:50.019
– chasing dreams. You're writing about how hard

00:16:50.019 --> 00:16:52.779
it is to come up with an idea, but then how do

00:16:52.779 --> 00:16:54.700
you go all through the gauntlet to actually get

00:16:54.700 --> 00:16:59.320
it done, right? And so I picked up on that theme

00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.379
and the book really became case studies about

00:17:02.379 --> 00:17:07.440
having great dreams and what it takes to chase

00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.079
them along. I don't think you follow them. I

00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:10.339
think you kind of have to chase them. You have

00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:12.079
to be aggressive. You have to really want them

00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.670
to happen. And I think... That what I learned

00:17:16.670 --> 00:17:19.609
in my career and what I now seem to hear from

00:17:19.609 --> 00:17:21.230
people when I go on the road and talk about the

00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:26.369
book is how do I have an idea, a germ of an idea?

00:17:27.229 --> 00:17:29.970
And if I believe what Walt said, which is, you

00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:32.410
know, if you're willing to pursue them, you can

00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:34.430
make them happen. How do I make that happen?

00:17:34.490 --> 00:17:37.089
And I tell people it's a long road. It's a tough

00:17:37.089 --> 00:17:40.450
road. And it's a road that you have to get others

00:17:40.450 --> 00:17:43.130
to share that dream with you. It's not just something

00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:45.650
you're doing, but you have to get others to be

00:17:45.650 --> 00:17:48.309
a part of it. And to do that, you've got to have

00:17:48.309 --> 00:17:50.589
them invest themselves. And sometimes that means

00:17:50.589 --> 00:17:53.190
modifying an idea so that you have a variety

00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:57.849
of opinions and ideas. Oftentimes, you might

00:17:57.849 --> 00:18:01.769
walk into a meeting with your idea, but by the

00:18:01.769 --> 00:18:04.210
time you leave the meeting, it's our idea. Because

00:18:04.210 --> 00:18:06.769
somebody's added to it. Somebody else has made

00:18:06.769 --> 00:18:08.609
a great comment. Somebody else has said, well,

00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:12.069
we could do this. That's the magic of it. And

00:18:12.069 --> 00:18:14.990
the magic of it is the collaboration. And so

00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:18.130
when people say to me, I've got a dream and I

00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:20.789
want to pursue it, the first thing I suggest

00:18:20.789 --> 00:18:23.490
to them is try to get collaborators who believe

00:18:23.490 --> 00:18:26.579
it like you do. Not very many. Many of us are

00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:30.160
soul artists or soul entrepreneurs. Some of us

00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.640
are. But most of us are in a position where we

00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.119
benefit from collaboration, even in a small company.

00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:39.240
And so that's probably the biggest advice I've

00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.579
given in the book is don't give up on your dreams.

00:18:42.740 --> 00:18:47.819
Push them hard. But also be willing to modulate

00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:51.000
them through a great collaborative effort is

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.420
what it takes when you're going to do, especially

00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:55.160
the field I've been in, these big, huge, you

00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.910
know. projects around the world, you're going

00:18:57.910 --> 00:18:59.210
to have a big team and you're going to have to

00:18:59.210 --> 00:19:02.890
be a leader of many people. Yeah. I, you know,

00:19:02.910 --> 00:19:04.490
one of the, one of the things too, that when

00:19:04.490 --> 00:19:06.190
I was thinking about this and I, and I found

00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:08.109
another quote, I want to ask you about, uh, about

00:19:08.109 --> 00:19:10.710
this very thing. Tony Robbins said, it's, it's

00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:12.849
not about the goal. It's about growing to become

00:19:12.849 --> 00:19:16.069
the person that can accomplish the goal. So in

00:19:16.069 --> 00:19:18.430
your experiences with this, when you had the

00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:20.650
courage to do those things and you were finding

00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:23.150
people to mentor you and collaborate with you

00:19:23.150 --> 00:19:26.039
on these things, As you look back at that career,

00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:28.400
what was it that you felt like you needed to

00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.640
become in order to be the leader that you ended

00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:34.819
up becoming with WDI? That's a great note. And

00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:39.180
I think that I've always seen leadership, and

00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:42.480
maybe it's particular to Disney and particular

00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:48.859
to WDI, is leadership is a very soft kind of

00:19:48.859 --> 00:19:52.720
collaborative leadership. It's not a hard. top

00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.500
-down kind of, you know, you guys go do that.

00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.519
You know, you don't order people around. And

00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.339
I learned a lot. I learned so much of this from

00:20:00.339 --> 00:20:02.920
Marty Sklar. Again, the new book that I have

00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:08.720
is somebody who got to know people almost like

00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.880
chess players. And he would say, I know what

00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.079
that person does. And I know what they do really

00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:16.640
well. And I know this other person, what they

00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.920
do really well. And I think I'll put those two

00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:20.640
together and say, why don't you two get together

00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.279
and work on this project for a little while.

00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:24.519
Or you four get together and work on a project

00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:30.180
like that. So the biggest benefit you have is

00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:34.279
being collaborative, being positive, and really

00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:36.680
knowing your people. Know who the talent is.

00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:39.920
and know how to combine them, know how to sort

00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.380
of mix it up. You don't want really a room full

00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:45.920
of people who do the same thing or think the

00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.079
same way. You want kind of a crazy room where

00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.660
people argue and one person's an artist and one

00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:54.200
person's a writer and somebody else is a musician,

00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:58.539
whatever, an anthropologist, so that it's lively

00:20:58.539 --> 00:21:01.740
and that you can learn from each other. And I

00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:05.859
think being a senior leader has to do with recognizing

00:21:06.809 --> 00:21:09.730
that you're not doing it for them and they're

00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:12.190
not doing it for you. You're guiding them to

00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:14.309
create something, but you're guiding them. When

00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:16.430
you do it yourself, you might be the boss, you

00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:18.710
might be the leader. But when you're a senior

00:21:18.710 --> 00:21:21.390
leader, you're really guiding. And you have to

00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:24.950
say, I think this chemistry is not working. Maybe

00:21:24.950 --> 00:21:26.769
I'll add another person or maybe I'll exchange

00:21:26.769 --> 00:21:30.369
a person out. But you do it kind of. softly and

00:21:30.369 --> 00:21:33.410
carefully. You know, you don't just come in and

00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:35.069
order people around. It just wouldn't work in

00:21:35.069 --> 00:21:37.589
this environment. It's very, very collaborative,

00:21:37.950 --> 00:21:43.369
very collegiate. And you have to know the people

00:21:43.369 --> 00:21:46.430
and what they're good at so that you can successfully

00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:49.490
build teams together. I think that's really insightful.

00:21:49.710 --> 00:21:53.609
I mean, I think if a leader really knows their

00:21:53.609 --> 00:21:56.609
people, then they can find those skills and those

00:21:56.609 --> 00:22:00.319
abilities. Because, you know, certain businesses

00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.400
and certain industries you might not have as

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.660
many opportunities for creativity uh but i still

00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:07.359
think that there's plenty of opportunities for

00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:09.500
collaboration we i've talked about it with my

00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:13.079
firm lately of of this idea that i heard of of

00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.240
a plumber and a poet that you have certain plumbing

00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:17.740
that needs to get done and those are certain

00:22:17.740 --> 00:22:19.500
procedures that have to get followed and things

00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:21.440
that have to get done a certain way because otherwise

00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:23.750
it Palming doesn't work. Then you have the poet

00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:25.309
side of things. And that's where you have the

00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:27.009
creativity. That's where you have the autonomy.

00:22:27.509 --> 00:22:31.529
And I think in every job, every industry, there's

00:22:31.529 --> 00:22:34.809
plenty of poetry that's done. I agree with you

00:22:34.809 --> 00:22:37.450
100%. Yeah, it can be made so much better through

00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:42.329
that collaboration that's there. I was just going

00:22:42.329 --> 00:22:46.069
to add to that, Ryan, that I think what I find

00:22:46.069 --> 00:22:48.769
is even organizations that you might not on the

00:22:48.769 --> 00:22:52.740
surface think. have a strong creative bent of

00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:56.980
any sort. You find that there are creative people

00:22:56.980 --> 00:23:01.099
in every group, every organization. And what

00:23:01.099 --> 00:23:04.079
may not be happening is they may not be stimulated

00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.460
or may not feel free to get together. So I even

00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:09.220
tell people, well, you're not going to start

00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:11.720
a creative division in this company, but you

00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.440
could give three or four or five or six of your

00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.079
most interesting people who think outside the

00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.430
box and say, look, We're going to buy lunch for

00:23:20.430 --> 00:23:22.789
you guys once a week for the next two months,

00:23:22.869 --> 00:23:25.609
and we're going to give you a room, and we want

00:23:25.609 --> 00:23:27.190
you to come up with a bunch of ideas and see

00:23:27.190 --> 00:23:30.269
what comes out of it, right? Just find ways to

00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:33.329
leverage the creativity you have in an organization.

00:23:33.990 --> 00:23:35.849
And sometimes it might mean you bring in one

00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:38.109
consultant who helps to do it for you, helps

00:23:38.109 --> 00:23:40.990
stimulate creativity. But it seems to me every

00:23:40.990 --> 00:23:44.410
organization benefits from having a creative

00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:46.609
enclave that's thinking about the future, thinking

00:23:46.609 --> 00:23:49.579
about outside the box. Yeah, actually, I love

00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:52.940
that. You know, and at the end of this episode,

00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:54.940
when we circle back to our three actionable takeaways,

00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:57.119
to me, that's one of the perfect ones that we

00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.779
could give as a takeaway. I love this idea of

00:23:59.779 --> 00:24:01.440
putting people together and saying, hey, you

00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.680
know, go do lunch once a week and come up with

00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.180
an idea. I think it's a great recommendation.

00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:07.980
I'm already thinking about people on my team

00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:09.960
I can do that with, to be honest. Yeah, yeah.

00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:12.940
But people want to. People who want to do it

00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:15.240
want to do it. So if you kind of give them a

00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:17.980
little bit of license, they will. Yeah, I think

00:24:17.980 --> 00:24:19.579
that's right. So another quote I want to ask

00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:21.160
you about, and of course it's going to be from

00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:24.200
Marty Sklar. And he was paraphrasing Einstein.

00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.680
And what I've got here is he said, if you aren't

00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.339
failing from time to time, you aren't trying

00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:33.319
anything new. So one of the questions I have

00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.059
for you is obviously, you know, the book, I believe

00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:37.819
you had said at one point in time was going to

00:24:37.819 --> 00:24:40.339
originally be called successes and failures before

00:24:40.339 --> 00:24:42.579
you land on the title you did. And so you, you

00:24:42.579 --> 00:24:44.220
document some of the failures that were there.

00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:47.390
My question is this, when you had, one of those

00:24:47.390 --> 00:24:50.630
big projects that you were working on that completely

00:24:50.630 --> 00:24:54.789
got shut down. What was it that you were experiencing

00:24:54.789 --> 00:24:58.289
emotionally when that first happened before you

00:24:58.289 --> 00:25:01.089
were able to kind of move forward and move to

00:25:01.089 --> 00:25:03.190
the next project? What did that feel like? And

00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:05.470
then once you kind of described that, how did

00:25:05.470 --> 00:25:08.069
you find a way to move forward? Well, the silliest

00:25:08.069 --> 00:25:11.390
thing anyone tells you, Brian, is a project's

00:25:11.390 --> 00:25:13.829
been canceled or hasn't gone well or something

00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:16.880
like that. And someone will say, well, Just don't

00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:20.460
take it personally. Well, it's you. There's no

00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:24.000
way not to take it personally because creative

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.460
output is coming from you and your team members,

00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:31.599
so everybody takes it personally. So the reminder

00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.019
you have to have, which is great in Marty's quote,

00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:37.140
is if you weren't pushing really hard, you have

00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:39.400
to fail once in a while. You have to be pushing

00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:41.480
outside the box. You have to be trying things

00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.789
that aren't possible. And Marty's experience,

00:25:45.029 --> 00:25:47.789
you know, goes through many different iterations

00:25:47.789 --> 00:25:50.490
of Epcot. It goes through things that never happened,

00:25:50.529 --> 00:25:53.309
like the Mineral King ski resort and, you know,

00:25:53.329 --> 00:25:55.789
things like that, that they tried and it didn't

00:25:55.789 --> 00:26:00.450
work. And I think the first thing you feel is

00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:03.509
a sense of a kind of loss, right? You worked

00:26:03.509 --> 00:26:05.630
on this thing for months or, you know, in the

00:26:05.630 --> 00:26:07.069
case of Disney's America, you might have worked

00:26:07.069 --> 00:26:09.269
on it for a couple of years. You believed in

00:26:09.269 --> 00:26:12.559
it. And all of a sudden it's shut off and it's

00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:17.500
gone, right? So I think I always go. I used to

00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:20.460
hit the ball. I hit tennis ball a lot once a

00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:25.819
week when I was at WDI. And if things went south,

00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.279
went bad, I would double my tennis dates. I love

00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.099
that. And I would just go out and I just. hit

00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:36.019
the ball more, you know. And I think a combination

00:26:36.019 --> 00:26:38.119
of exercise, getting some sleep, getting some

00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.380
fresh perspective, maybe take a few days off,

00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:43.140
go do something, it works, you know. And you

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:47.539
realize, okay, life's going to go on. And sometime

00:26:47.539 --> 00:26:49.880
later, the learnings you have in that project,

00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:54.119
Disney's America, you know, many projects like

00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.380
that, the learnings you have end up helping you

00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.819
in something else. They may not come back exactly

00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:02.779
the same, but the learnings you have, the contacts

00:27:02.779 --> 00:27:07.119
you made, the things that you put together, they

00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.319
become a part of you. They become a part of who

00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:10.960
you are. They may not become Disney projects,

00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:12.940
but they do become a part of who you are and

00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:15.400
the chemistry of things you know that you can

00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.279
bring to the application of the next project.

00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:20.839
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Now, so you,

00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.440
when you would have those things happen and you

00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:27.180
were able to move past those, how did you help?

00:27:27.470 --> 00:27:30.009
the people that worked for you when you were

00:27:30.009 --> 00:27:33.569
a leader find that same thing, to dig deep and

00:27:33.569 --> 00:27:35.990
to realize like, oh, actually, this is a lesson

00:27:35.990 --> 00:27:38.869
that I can take forward. And I do, I can experience

00:27:38.869 --> 00:27:41.569
it, right? I can accept the fact like this was

00:27:41.569 --> 00:27:44.210
personal and I can have those emotions. How do

00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:46.470
you help them then dig themselves out if they

00:27:46.470 --> 00:27:48.609
struggle with it? Because not obviously everybody's

00:27:48.609 --> 00:27:51.269
going to do that perfectly every time. Yeah,

00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:54.869
I did have a habit of trying to find a point

00:27:54.869 --> 00:27:59.640
in time. that thought it was sort of like, okay,

00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.359
we're at the end of the blue sky process or the

00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.640
concept process or design development. It looks

00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:06.339
like we're going to go on hold for a while or

00:28:06.339 --> 00:28:10.220
it looks like we may not go forward, is complete

00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:13.839
something that can be packaged up and given to

00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:16.279
the archives or given to the library or people

00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:20.670
can hold on to that kind of captures. the learnings

00:28:20.670 --> 00:28:22.210
of that project. You don't want to lose that

00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:24.269
because people learned a lot. They had a lot

00:28:24.269 --> 00:28:26.390
of great ideas. So you find a way to preserve

00:28:26.390 --> 00:28:32.109
that for your future. And frankly, I always looked

00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:34.710
for a way to celebrate the team, celebrate the

00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:37.750
teams, even if they're at the end point. Okay,

00:28:37.829 --> 00:28:39.509
we're all going to go, when we get this done,

00:28:39.730 --> 00:28:42.150
we're all going to go have a great lunch and

00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:44.789
congratulate each other for a job well done.

00:28:45.089 --> 00:28:47.329
Even if it didn't get built, I think you can

00:28:47.329 --> 00:28:51.279
celebrate a team's work. And teams, I think,

00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:53.259
really appreciate having a sense of closure.

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.680
Okay, we closed it out. We put everything away.

00:28:57.180 --> 00:28:59.799
We had a really nice event, you know, where they

00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.579
congratulated us. And now we're getting reassigned

00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:04.700
onto new things and we start fresh. You know,

00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:08.500
I think every stage of a project should be celebrated

00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:10.720
by the teams because there's hard work goes into

00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.559
it. And if you only celebrate the ones that get

00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.039
finished, it's kind of losing the opportunity

00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.640
to celebrate everything along the way if you

00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.529
can. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I love

00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:25.089
this idea of still celebrating it, even if it

00:29:25.089 --> 00:29:27.170
didn't work out exactly like you were hoping,

00:29:27.309 --> 00:29:29.730
because the team still needs to feel that. They

00:29:29.730 --> 00:29:32.190
still need to feel like, hey, look, I made these

00:29:32.190 --> 00:29:35.609
contributions. My contributions are valued, even

00:29:35.609 --> 00:29:37.130
if we didn't use it the way that I was hoping.

00:29:37.230 --> 00:29:40.069
It also makes me think of after action reports,

00:29:40.329 --> 00:29:45.509
right? I think in my industry, very few law firms

00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:48.859
do something like that. But in different businesses,

00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:51.019
I think an after -action report can be very helpful

00:29:51.019 --> 00:29:53.720
to help our teammates, to help our people process

00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:57.900
through, okay, so we had this thing. What went

00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:02.700
well? What didn't go well? Could we have even

00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:04.480
done anything differently? Maybe it was just

00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:06.920
the fates just weren't ready for this project,

00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.380
whatever. But you're right. It's incredibly valuable

00:30:09.380 --> 00:30:15.269
information. And I've had people call me. I keep

00:30:15.269 --> 00:30:16.710
mentioning Disney's America because it's one

00:30:16.710 --> 00:30:18.490
of the big ones that I had that got canceled.

00:30:18.609 --> 00:30:21.369
But who have called me and they have done PhD

00:30:21.369 --> 00:30:24.789
dissertations about Disney's America. No kidding.

00:30:25.269 --> 00:30:28.289
They sent them to me. Not kidding at all. I've

00:30:28.289 --> 00:30:31.130
also had people with PhD dissertations about

00:30:31.130 --> 00:30:33.009
Tokyo DisneySeas and other things too. People

00:30:33.009 --> 00:30:36.009
love to learn about Disney and write about Disney.

00:30:36.150 --> 00:30:40.650
But everything's a journey and it's great to

00:30:40.650 --> 00:30:45.160
– I don't look back with regret on – I feel like

00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:49.740
all the successes and the failures are an accumulation

00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:52.619
of hard work that, you know, I'm so glad to have

00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:54.740
work done all around the world, you know, to

00:30:54.740 --> 00:30:57.759
feel privileged to have completed every project

00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.240
we did start. Yeah, for sure. One of the things

00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:06.099
that I believe a lot in and have. kind of been

00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:08.579
a passion to me for the last several years is

00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:11.779
some work by Simon Sinek where he talks about

00:31:11.779 --> 00:31:15.920
having a why or a purpose. And one of the things

00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.539
that he said is working hard for something we

00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:21.519
don't care about is called stress. Working hard

00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:25.710
for something we love is called passion. When

00:31:25.710 --> 00:31:27.789
you were experiencing, and you're still in the

00:31:27.789 --> 00:31:30.630
middle of a project, and things get really hard

00:31:30.630 --> 00:31:32.869
and they're very difficult, you're coming up

00:31:32.869 --> 00:31:34.950
against things that seem impossible to overcome,

00:31:35.289 --> 00:31:40.410
where did you dig down to to find the ability

00:31:40.410 --> 00:31:42.549
to keep going and pushing towards the dreams

00:31:42.549 --> 00:31:44.470
that you had and the things that might have seemed

00:31:44.470 --> 00:31:48.170
impossible? Well, that is the magic to it. That

00:31:48.170 --> 00:31:51.410
is the challenge for a leader or a team member

00:31:51.410 --> 00:31:54.829
is to keep that. keep that passion fueled even

00:31:54.829 --> 00:31:57.589
in the roughest of times in the middle of the

00:31:57.589 --> 00:31:59.730
night when people are working long weeks and

00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:02.329
in a foreign country, living away from their

00:32:02.329 --> 00:32:05.309
families or whatever it might be. I think Simon

00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:08.950
Sinek is very on point there. He's very, very

00:32:08.950 --> 00:32:12.230
clear about that point, as you said. And I met

00:32:12.230 --> 00:32:15.130
Simon a few times and I actually called him when

00:32:15.130 --> 00:32:18.339
I was finishing Dream Chasing. And asked him

00:32:18.339 --> 00:32:20.279
if he would take a look at the book. And he did.

00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.539
And he wrote a blurb for the back cover, which

00:32:22.539 --> 00:32:26.900
I really cherish, where he talks about everybody

00:32:26.900 --> 00:32:29.240
has dreams. Everybody has dreams. And I know

00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.460
Simon believes that, like I do. And the difference

00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:34.819
is whether you can create an environment where

00:32:34.819 --> 00:32:37.019
those dreams can be fostered as opposed to just

00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:40.599
kind of fall away. So I think in this case, I

00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:44.059
can remember in the depths of Shanghai Disneyland.

00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.519
Where we would, my fellow leaders and I would

00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:54.000
walk through the building and just hand out bagels,

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.980
you know, at 10 o 'clock in the morning or hand

00:32:56.980 --> 00:33:01.180
out cookies or have little beer events after

00:33:01.180 --> 00:33:04.460
work. Or, you know, we were in the middle of

00:33:04.460 --> 00:33:07.259
Shanghai and we managed to find a company that

00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:10.660
would do. a bunch of Thanksgiving turkeys for

00:33:10.660 --> 00:33:12.900
us. It wasn't a normal thing to have in China,

00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:14.680
but we got them to do turkeys that we could take

00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:19.059
to each department one morning. You go around,

00:33:19.180 --> 00:33:21.420
you shake hands with people, you listen to people

00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:24.960
bitch or complain, you know, and then sometimes

00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.480
they're happy just to get it off their chest,

00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:30.579
right? They just want to tell you how screwed

00:33:30.579 --> 00:33:33.640
up this is. And you can say, you know, I agree

00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:35.140
with you. This is screwed up, but let's figure

00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:38.480
out how to get it done. And when you're on site,

00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.200
and Craig Russell is an expert of this, and there's

00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:44.240
other people who are an expert of this, when

00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:46.339
you're walking around on the site, you can give

00:33:46.339 --> 00:33:49.079
people a lot of encouragement. You can have them

00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.359
realize that even though they're stuck in the

00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.119
day -to -day, if they kind of squint their eyes

00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:56.519
and look at this, it's going to be incredible.

00:33:57.380 --> 00:33:59.460
And they just have to realize that there's going

00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:02.160
to be a lot of hard work along the way. These

00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:05.119
are hard projects, especially the end. And by

00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:06.960
the end, I don't mean the last week. I mean the

00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.079
last year that you might be working overtime.

00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:13.579
And it's very difficult to have a work -life

00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:15.320
balance when you're doing that and you're away

00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.159
from home. But I think people eventually, and

00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.659
sometimes it's, you know, at the end of Star

00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:24.539
Wars, Galaxy's Edge, and at the end of Shanghai,

00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.199
very similar, I had a whole bunch of people.

00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:30.480
who were so upset, angry, mad. I'll never do

00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.519
another project again. This is too much work.

00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.079
It's too much stress, you know. And then the

00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.400
one -year anniversary gets together and everybody

00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:40.320
has a little party and gets together and everybody

00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.079
says, wasn't that the greatest project we ever

00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:47.739
did? Often when people ask me what my favorite

00:34:47.739 --> 00:34:52.000
projects are, I often end up answering the most

00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.170
difficult ones, you know. Because those are the

00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:56.170
ones that you feel like you really earned your

00:34:56.170 --> 00:35:00.429
passion for because it was tough. And that's

00:35:00.429 --> 00:35:03.650
okay. You just have to find out a way to keep

00:35:03.650 --> 00:35:07.070
your own energy going. But the thing that really

00:35:07.070 --> 00:35:10.670
sustains people's energy is their fellow team

00:35:10.670 --> 00:35:13.269
members. And I've seen amazing things. I've seen

00:35:13.269 --> 00:35:15.989
team members take care of each other, go out.

00:35:16.409 --> 00:35:19.329
as a group and have bike rides or play badminton

00:35:19.329 --> 00:35:22.070
together, you know, do team building stuff offsite

00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:23.750
where they can get to know each other better.

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:27.829
I've seen somebody get sick and a group of team

00:35:27.829 --> 00:35:29.929
members got together and went to HR and offered

00:35:29.929 --> 00:35:32.429
some of their sick leave time if they could give

00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:34.150
it to that person because they needed more time

00:35:34.150 --> 00:35:37.070
or they can cover their job. Teams are amazing.

00:35:37.289 --> 00:35:41.030
And teams are where most of your time is spent.

00:35:41.630 --> 00:35:46.019
And they can be incredible supporters for everybody.

00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:51.519
Yeah, it's, to me, when people are willing to

00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.579
do that, it comes from somewhere, right? And

00:35:54.579 --> 00:35:57.199
it comes from who they are, comes from the team

00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:58.639
you're assembling, but also comes from the leaders,

00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.219
right? The leaders have to be showing that in

00:36:01.219 --> 00:36:04.179
order for people to follow it. In reference to

00:36:04.179 --> 00:36:08.099
Simon's work, I'm curious, and if the answer

00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:09.480
is you don't have one or you're not sure, that's

00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:11.539
okay as well, but I'm just curious. Do you have

00:36:11.539 --> 00:36:14.079
a personal why statement? You know, Simon in

00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.579
his book, start with why and then finding your

00:36:16.579 --> 00:36:18.480
why kind of talks about a very specific like,

00:36:18.579 --> 00:36:21.639
what is the why that somebody has, both a business

00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:24.840
and also individual? I'm wondering if you have

00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:29.820
one. Well, I'd probably steal one from Robert

00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:33.059
F. Kennedy, the original Robert F. Kennedy from

00:36:33.059 --> 00:36:37.300
1968, which is why not? You know, you have to.

00:36:38.909 --> 00:36:40.989
You have to go into a meeting or go into a conversation

00:36:40.989 --> 00:36:44.010
with something and somebody's got a crazy idea

00:36:44.010 --> 00:36:48.929
and not say how difficult it is, but say, you

00:36:48.929 --> 00:36:50.769
know, how could we do it? What's the possibility

00:36:50.769 --> 00:36:54.269
here? You know, why wouldn't we try this? You

00:36:54.269 --> 00:36:55.469
know, why wouldn't we try it a different way?

00:36:56.070 --> 00:37:00.070
My advice to brainstormings when they start is

00:37:00.070 --> 00:37:04.510
don't say no. Don't ask questions about how difficult

00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:07.269
it's going to be. Just explore the possibilities.

00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:10.219
The worst thing is somebody comes up with an

00:37:10.219 --> 00:37:11.739
idea and somebody says, oh, you know, we tried

00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:13.800
that 30 years ago and it didn't work. Well, you

00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.860
know, today's today. Let's try it. You know,

00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.900
we might want to try it again. You don't want

00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:21.099
to clamp down on things just as they're kind

00:37:21.099 --> 00:37:25.300
of being, you know, they're seedlings. So I think

00:37:25.300 --> 00:37:27.639
it's important that you let creative people run

00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.639
a little bit, run way out there, you know, and

00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:33.280
you can always haul them back in when it's time

00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:39.030
to put some business parameters around it. Free

00:37:39.030 --> 00:37:40.789
thinking is a great thing for anybody. You know,

00:37:40.789 --> 00:37:43.349
thinking outside the box is great. It can be

00:37:43.349 --> 00:37:46.369
scary for some people, but that's really what

00:37:46.369 --> 00:37:49.809
we all need to do. Well, I love what you're doing

00:37:49.809 --> 00:37:52.090
there, which is when you're saying why not and

00:37:52.090 --> 00:37:54.469
you're opening up that free thinking, you're

00:37:54.469 --> 00:37:57.889
empowering those people to be able to think and

00:37:57.889 --> 00:38:00.750
know this is a safe place for us to explore these

00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:02.730
ideas. This is a safe place for us to be able

00:38:02.730 --> 00:38:05.010
to figure out what's there. And so to me, it's

00:38:05.010 --> 00:38:07.690
very much what Simon talks about, about it being

00:38:07.690 --> 00:38:10.389
outward facing so that somebody else can be empowered

00:38:10.389 --> 00:38:13.429
to do something better or beyond themselves or

00:38:13.429 --> 00:38:16.400
do something great. I love that. And projects

00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.460
are really an important social culture. There's

00:38:19.460 --> 00:38:22.059
a group of people who, you know, in a Disney

00:38:22.059 --> 00:38:24.079
project sense, they could work together for the

00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.179
next five years. So, you know, it's a long road.

00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:31.559
And so their ability to create strength amongst

00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:34.079
themselves and to create a team identity and,

00:38:34.099 --> 00:38:37.699
you know, a team support structure and keep their

00:38:37.699 --> 00:38:40.199
own passion burning all the time, that is such

00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:43.880
an important thing. Now, in your book, I believe,

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.980
and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe

00:38:45.980 --> 00:38:48.639
you describe yourself as an introvert, I think,

00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.519
if I remember correctly. And here's what I want

00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.820
to get your take on, because I came across some

00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:57.380
materials from Adam Grant, who he himself is

00:38:57.380 --> 00:39:01.239
a self -described introvert. And he said that

00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.719
there is such a thing as an introverted leadership

00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:08.440
advantage. And then he went on to say in a post,

00:39:08.889 --> 00:39:11.510
Introverted leaders were very open. They were

00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:13.630
willing to listen. They took better suggestions

00:39:13.630 --> 00:39:16.170
and they left their people feeling more valued.

00:39:16.409 --> 00:39:20.909
So as an introvert, if you in fact are leading

00:39:20.909 --> 00:39:23.070
some of the most creative teams in the world,

00:39:23.110 --> 00:39:26.090
how do you think that being an introvert served

00:39:26.090 --> 00:39:28.409
you well in those leadership positions that you

00:39:28.409 --> 00:39:32.269
had? Who was that quote from, Brian? Sorry. Adam

00:39:32.269 --> 00:39:35.050
Grant. Adam Grant. That's a great quote, by the

00:39:35.050 --> 00:39:39.780
way. Send me that. But I think it's very true

00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:42.019
that there are – first of all, there are different

00:39:42.019 --> 00:39:44.460
leadership styles and we all can be successful

00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:50.260
with who we are. But I think in my history at

00:39:50.260 --> 00:39:54.119
least, listening is really important and not

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:58.440
necessarily walking in and snap judgment on something.

00:39:58.699 --> 00:40:02.059
Kind of walk in and say, OK, tell me about this

00:40:02.059 --> 00:40:06.630
and explain it to me and listen carefully. And

00:40:06.630 --> 00:40:09.710
be willing to absorb quite a bit of that knowledge

00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:13.010
before speaking up. You know, I think that's

00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:16.230
– whether I'm an introvert or an extrovert, I

00:40:16.230 --> 00:40:19.349
think I am an introvert. My style was to try

00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:22.250
to understand problems, understand issues before

00:40:22.250 --> 00:40:26.489
making judgment on them. And the great thing

00:40:26.489 --> 00:40:29.989
about being at a place like Imagineering is –

00:40:30.489 --> 00:40:32.909
You have engineers and technical people and software

00:40:32.909 --> 00:40:35.150
people and artists and writers, and you can get

00:40:35.150 --> 00:40:37.030
a pretty good group together and say, what's

00:40:37.030 --> 00:40:39.690
happening on this project and where is it bogged

00:40:39.690 --> 00:40:42.349
down? And if you've got the right people in the

00:40:42.349 --> 00:40:44.510
room, you can really find out if you listen carefully

00:40:44.510 --> 00:40:48.690
and be willing to, as I said, take somebody's

00:40:48.690 --> 00:40:50.409
call if they're just mad about something and

00:40:50.409 --> 00:40:54.539
listen, try to understand it. So I think that's

00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:59.159
a strength. I try to absorb things before necessarily

00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.380
jumping in. And I don't like to hear myself talk

00:41:02.380 --> 00:41:05.199
so much. I like to give direction when I sort

00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:07.840
of understand what I'm doing. I'll tell you what,

00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:10.280
though, Ryan. I've been writing now for four

00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:12.400
years. It's been about four years since I started

00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.639
dream chasing. I wrote a little novel called

00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:18.280
Ghost Dog based on Haunted Mansion. I'm just

00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.179
finishing this Marty Sklar book, and I've got

00:41:20.179 --> 00:41:23.099
another book I'm starting for Disney. I'm at

00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:26.860
home. with my computer. That's the best thing

00:41:26.860 --> 00:41:29.599
in the world. You're loving it. My wife, my family.

00:41:30.139 --> 00:41:33.880
I write for a few hours. I go out. I grow cactus.

00:41:34.059 --> 00:41:35.760
I go out and work in the cactus garden. I come

00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:38.280
back. I write for a few more hours. So I think

00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:43.380
fundamentally I've realized myself as an introvert.

00:41:43.780 --> 00:41:47.639
But I do love going out and doing the book chores,

00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:49.739
book speeches, things like that. So I do like

00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:54.289
the outgoing part of it. But I do enjoy the quiet

00:41:54.289 --> 00:41:57.050
life of writing and authoring. Being a president

00:41:57.050 --> 00:42:00.250
of Imagineering, you rarely are in a meeting

00:42:00.250 --> 00:42:03.929
that has less than 40 people in it. So there

00:42:03.929 --> 00:42:06.909
are big conference rooms, big issues, lots of

00:42:06.909 --> 00:42:09.230
people with opinions, lots of people to manage.

00:42:11.190 --> 00:42:15.750
1 ,000, 1 ,500 people, 720 people on the concept

00:42:15.750 --> 00:42:18.250
team for Shanghai. You were dealing with a lot

00:42:18.250 --> 00:42:20.530
of people all the time. The best thing in the

00:42:20.530 --> 00:42:22.349
world about Imagineering was name tags, right?

00:42:22.449 --> 00:42:25.349
You could always remember people's name. But

00:42:25.349 --> 00:42:29.190
it's very hard to do that truly as an introvert.

00:42:29.269 --> 00:42:32.809
I say I had to play an extrovert on TV. I had

00:42:32.809 --> 00:42:35.969
to be very outgoing. I had to go out, shake hands

00:42:35.969 --> 00:42:40.659
with strangers, thank people. If you took me

00:42:40.659 --> 00:42:42.860
to a dinner party right now, I'd be very happy

00:42:42.860 --> 00:42:45.679
to sit in a corner and not talk to anybody. But

00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:48.340
I do it because it's important. It's important

00:42:48.340 --> 00:42:51.280
to meet people and things like that. But I do

00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.239
think introverts are often overlooked because

00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:57.619
they're not the loudest person. They're not the

00:42:57.619 --> 00:42:59.489
loudest person in the room. I think that's one

00:42:59.489 --> 00:43:01.869
of the things that in Adam Grant, when I heard

00:43:01.869 --> 00:43:04.030
him talk about this very point, that's one of

00:43:04.030 --> 00:43:05.590
the key things he's pointed to, which you just,

00:43:05.590 --> 00:43:07.650
which you just discovered, which is they do get

00:43:07.650 --> 00:43:09.570
overlooked. So many times introverts can actually

00:43:09.570 --> 00:43:11.469
be great leaders, but because they're not the

00:43:11.469 --> 00:43:13.969
ones who are the loudest in the room or out there,

00:43:13.989 --> 00:43:16.110
they're not jumping on the table. They're not

00:43:16.110 --> 00:43:17.829
jumping up on the table, stuff like that. But

00:43:17.829 --> 00:43:19.849
they're often the most thought, they're very

00:43:19.849 --> 00:43:24.550
thoughtful. And I did a few things. I, in brainstorming

00:43:24.550 --> 00:43:28.239
sessions, I would often stop and I would, realize

00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:31.119
there's three people in this room talking and

00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:34.059
there's 12 people in this room, right? So I would

00:43:34.059 --> 00:43:36.960
ask people, I'd say, you know, Mark, what are

00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.539
you thinking about this? And then they felt the

00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:44.039
freedom to say something very insightful, but

00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:45.599
they wouldn't necessarily interrupt the room

00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:48.480
to say it. And one of my favorite things to do

00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.420
at the end of a couple of days brainstorming

00:43:50.420 --> 00:43:52.400
or a couple weeks brainstorming, it doesn't matter

00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:56.619
what it is, is to stop the meeting. half an hour

00:43:56.619 --> 00:43:59.199
before it's supposed to stop and go around the

00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:01.960
table and have everybody make a comment. So everybody

00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:05.579
gets a moment to say what they thought. Incredible

00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:07.360
insights come out of that because the people

00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:08.980
who've been maybe talking the loudest, you kind

00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:10.460
of know where they're coming from, but there's

00:44:10.460 --> 00:44:12.440
a lot of talent in that room and you want to

00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:14.960
hear where everybody's coming from. I think that's

00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.639
a great suggestion too. You are also, Brian,

00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:22.420
in an environment, a place like Imagineering,

00:44:22.539 --> 00:44:27.670
a lot of artists. and engineers, and you find

00:44:27.670 --> 00:44:31.329
that it is a very high introvert percentage environment,

00:44:31.590 --> 00:44:35.550
I think. And so you have a small group of super

00:44:35.550 --> 00:44:38.929
outgoing folks, and you have a lot, maybe not

00:44:38.929 --> 00:44:41.489
as much as animation. Animation is super introverted,

00:44:41.510 --> 00:44:44.349
but imagining is quite introverted as a field.

00:44:44.429 --> 00:44:47.210
So you have to really dig to, that's another

00:44:47.210 --> 00:44:51.750
reason why the better you know your people. The

00:44:51.750 --> 00:44:53.409
better you get to know them, then you know where

00:44:53.409 --> 00:44:56.329
to cast them, who to cast them with, what kind

00:44:56.329 --> 00:44:58.829
of projects to give them. That's the best tool

00:44:58.829 --> 00:45:01.530
in the world is knowing the people. Yeah, I love

00:45:01.530 --> 00:45:03.969
it. So another thing I want to ask you about

00:45:03.969 --> 00:45:06.849
was in your book, you talk a little bit about

00:45:06.849 --> 00:45:09.050
Stephen Covey. You make reference to some stuff

00:45:09.050 --> 00:45:11.010
you guys have looked at with Stephen Covey. And

00:45:11.010 --> 00:45:13.570
I want to get your take on what I think is a

00:45:13.570 --> 00:45:18.489
beautiful paradox. So it's this. Stephen Covey

00:45:18.489 --> 00:45:21.550
wrote in his book. that you should begin with

00:45:21.550 --> 00:45:24.570
the end in mind, okay? And then one of the things

00:45:24.570 --> 00:45:27.389
you wrote is, dreams are elusive and always pulling

00:45:27.389 --> 00:45:29.409
at you. They seem to always be right around the

00:45:29.409 --> 00:45:31.829
corner, but you never really know what you're

00:45:31.829 --> 00:45:34.610
chasing until you catch it. If it turns out to

00:45:34.610 --> 00:45:36.769
be real magic, the chase will have been worth

00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:38.309
it, which is just beautifully written, first

00:45:38.309 --> 00:45:41.090
off. But to me, I think there's a bit of a really

00:45:41.090 --> 00:45:42.989
cool paradox that's there, and I kind of want

00:45:42.989 --> 00:45:44.889
to get your take on it, of that you're chasing

00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:46.769
these dreams, but you don't really know it until

00:45:46.769 --> 00:45:48.929
you get there. With Stephen Covey also saying

00:45:48.929 --> 00:45:51.190
you've got to begin with the end in mind. Yeah.

00:45:51.230 --> 00:45:54.130
Yeah. I think Covey was a nice match when he

00:45:54.130 --> 00:45:57.550
came to Imagineering. He came probably over the

00:45:57.550 --> 00:46:00.230
course of a year. We did lots of sessions with

00:46:00.230 --> 00:46:05.389
Covey and his people. And I think he has a particular

00:46:05.389 --> 00:46:08.250
style of what I'm talking about, which is sort

00:46:08.250 --> 00:46:11.769
of a soft leadership style, which is. Definitely

00:46:11.769 --> 00:46:14.469
strategic. It's definitely leadership. But it's

00:46:14.469 --> 00:46:16.550
not didactic. It's not going and telling people

00:46:16.550 --> 00:46:18.309
they have to go do that because I'm your boss,

00:46:18.409 --> 00:46:21.670
right? It's having relationships. I think Stephen

00:46:21.670 --> 00:46:25.730
was very insightful about his – the thing I remember

00:46:25.730 --> 00:46:29.010
most, Ryan, is him talking about relationships

00:46:29.010 --> 00:46:31.809
like a bank deposit. Are you overdrawn with this

00:46:31.809 --> 00:46:34.250
person or do you have a pretty good account with

00:46:34.250 --> 00:46:38.230
this person? And if you're starting to feel overdrawn

00:46:38.230 --> 00:46:41.199
with this person, you better go – have lunch

00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:44.139
with them or talk about their project or chat

00:46:44.139 --> 00:46:47.199
a little bit and hear their point of view. But

00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.300
I think a lot of people figured out from that

00:46:49.300 --> 00:46:52.940
that people think differently, people work differently,

00:46:53.019 --> 00:46:57.420
and the more you can build those relationships,

00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:00.119
the better you can do it. You know, it's all

00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:02.360
about people and how they get along. We also

00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:07.230
did... quite a bit of work as many organizations

00:47:07.230 --> 00:47:12.889
have done with Myers -Briggs and having people

00:47:12.889 --> 00:47:17.269
understand kind of their Myers -Briggs four -letter

00:47:17.269 --> 00:47:20.789
code thing. But it was interesting to be in a

00:47:20.789 --> 00:47:24.190
room with somebody who's quite introverted and

00:47:24.190 --> 00:47:28.030
thinks by feeling versus very extroverted. And

00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:31.809
you learn a little bit more insight about the

00:47:31.809 --> 00:47:34.960
people you work with. And it's tremendous when

00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:39.179
you can do that. So Simon Sinek coming in, Stephen

00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:44.960
Covey coming in, they were fantastic. Once in

00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.039
a while, organization has to look inward and

00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:49.360
say what's working and what's not working and

00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:52.199
stop for a second. And it's very hard when you're

00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:54.780
overcommitted and projects are happening. It's

00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:57.900
very hard to do that. The best time to do organizational

00:47:57.900 --> 00:48:02.519
development really is... In the early stages

00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:05.639
of projects, a project is just getting going,

00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:09.460
teams assigned, and we've got challenges ahead.

00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:12.679
I used to always try to do an off -site at that

00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:15.739
moment, take the new team off, doesn't matter

00:48:15.739 --> 00:48:18.219
where you go, someplace, but get out of the office

00:48:18.219 --> 00:48:20.460
and have a day where everybody, and I would say,

00:48:20.539 --> 00:48:22.960
how are we going to work? How are we all going

00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:28.780
to work together? Once you're going, it's kind

00:48:28.780 --> 00:48:31.039
of too late to ask the question, right? You kind

00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:33.480
of want to ask it at the beginning and set some

00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:36.059
ground rules because each team approaches projects

00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:38.059
differently because no two projects are the same.

00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:40.800
Yeah, getting that team formed at the beginning,

00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:42.679
getting them to build those bonds and those bonds

00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:44.760
together at the beginning, I can see how that

00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:47.159
would set it up for greater success if you do

00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.460
that early. Yeah, if you look at it, there's

00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:51.880
another guy you might look at, another business

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:54.360
philosophy you might benefit from looking at.

00:48:56.049 --> 00:48:58.489
He was a great friend. He's passed now, but he

00:48:58.489 --> 00:49:01.389
was a great friend. He was a great organizational

00:49:01.389 --> 00:49:05.489
development person. His name is Ravi Rao, R -A

00:49:05.489 --> 00:49:12.269
-V -I -R -A -U. And he wrote a great book, and

00:49:12.269 --> 00:49:15.590
he spent a lot of time with us, and he had tremendous

00:49:15.590 --> 00:49:17.929
insight. He was a neurologist, actually, by training,

00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:19.889
with tremendous insight into people's behavior

00:49:19.889 --> 00:49:23.849
and a great sense of humor, very soft style.

00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.320
But people walked away from a session with Robbie

00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:30.860
with a tremendous insight into how the team was

00:49:30.860 --> 00:49:33.039
going to work. Yeah, I'm definitely going to

00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:34.780
have to pick that up. I'll definitely find his

00:49:34.780 --> 00:49:37.619
material and definitely read that book. So one

00:49:37.619 --> 00:49:39.699
of the things I thought was also interesting

00:49:39.699 --> 00:49:41.480
in kind of reading through your experience is

00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:43.539
that you took a bit of a detour for a little

00:49:43.539 --> 00:49:47.019
while outside of the Walt Disney Company. And

00:49:47.019 --> 00:49:49.519
you had your own company as an entrepreneur.

00:49:49.699 --> 00:49:54.030
I'm interested in what were the... What was the

00:49:54.030 --> 00:49:57.269
best lesson that you took from your time running

00:49:57.269 --> 00:50:00.769
your own business that then helped you overall

00:50:00.769 --> 00:50:06.389
as you came back into Disney and as you ran Walt

00:50:06.389 --> 00:50:09.010
Disney Imagineering? Well, I really enjoyed my

00:50:09.010 --> 00:50:11.670
time at Imagineering and I enjoyed my time away

00:50:11.670 --> 00:50:14.010
from Imagineering. You know, I enjoyed both ends

00:50:14.010 --> 00:50:18.610
of that spectrum. Being away from Imagineering

00:50:18.610 --> 00:50:22.559
was fun and challenging because When you're in

00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:27.039
a corporate world, you just go up to the Xerox

00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:29.800
machine, you know, back when we had paper, go

00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:33.840
up to the Xerox machine and make a copy. In the

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.300
private entrepreneurial world, you have to figure

00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:39.219
out how much a Xerox machine costs and where

00:50:39.219 --> 00:50:41.840
do you go buy one and who's going to take care

00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:44.019
of it once it breaks. You know, you suddenly

00:50:44.019 --> 00:50:47.760
have the responsibility for everything, for people,

00:50:47.900 --> 00:50:51.480
for health insurance, for, you know. Accounting,

00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:53.480
making sure you have enough money every Thursday

00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:54.860
or every other Thursday when you're going to

00:50:54.860 --> 00:50:58.380
pay people. So as much of a struggle as that

00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:01.159
was for me, not being a business person, but

00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:02.960
surrounding myself with good business people

00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:06.360
and the ups and downs of all that, ups and downs

00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:09.360
of interesting clients, I did have a great experience

00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.420
from that. And I think when I got back to Imagineering,

00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:14.420
the management people who invited me back, I

00:51:14.420 --> 00:51:16.300
think they saw that that was a benefit to me,

00:51:16.380 --> 00:51:19.440
that I knew more about. not just creative from

00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:22.260
having different kinds of creative problems from

00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:25.920
NASA and museums and other types of organizations,

00:51:26.139 --> 00:51:29.340
but also knowing a lot more about how a business

00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:33.019
runs. And I think that was a great experience

00:51:33.019 --> 00:51:35.659
for me. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed

00:51:35.659 --> 00:51:39.760
being an entrepreneur. And I built great relationships.

00:51:40.179 --> 00:51:43.929
You're in D .C. right now. If you know the National

00:51:43.929 --> 00:51:47.030
Harbor Project, which is on the river just south

00:51:47.030 --> 00:51:50.489
of you, across from Old Town Alexandria, I did

00:51:50.489 --> 00:51:52.889
the master plan for that for an incredible client.

00:51:53.590 --> 00:51:56.449
I didn't know that. Milt Peterson, the Peterson

00:51:56.449 --> 00:51:59.230
Company, the patriarch of that company has since

00:51:59.230 --> 00:52:02.210
passed. But I had easily a 10 -year relationship

00:52:02.210 --> 00:52:05.070
with Milt. It's an incredible project. I worked

00:52:05.070 --> 00:52:07.769
on some things with the Smithsonian. I really,

00:52:07.869 --> 00:52:10.329
you know, I worked with NASA down at Kennedy

00:52:10.329 --> 00:52:13.190
Space Center. on the public programs, things

00:52:13.190 --> 00:52:15.230
like that. Those were incredible experiences.

00:52:15.349 --> 00:52:17.010
I just loved them. I made some documentaries.

00:52:17.630 --> 00:52:21.809
So I love the business world of Disney, but it's

00:52:21.809 --> 00:52:23.429
all absorbing. You can't do anything else. It's

00:52:23.429 --> 00:52:25.489
very hard to do anything else. You know, it's

00:52:25.489 --> 00:52:27.530
really hard for me even to start my book when

00:52:27.530 --> 00:52:30.530
I was starting to think about retiring from Disney.

00:52:31.429 --> 00:52:33.730
These projects are just, they drive your life,

00:52:33.849 --> 00:52:38.769
right? So I enjoyed being away and having some

00:52:38.769 --> 00:52:41.159
different kinds of. clients. I got to meet astronauts.

00:52:41.380 --> 00:52:44.139
I got to meet, you know, incredible architects

00:52:44.139 --> 00:52:48.340
and designers and philosophers. It was great.

00:52:48.500 --> 00:52:52.739
And I brought those concepts back. I often would

00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:55.280
bring people that I met outside back to advise

00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:57.800
me on Disney projects when I was back or to do

00:52:57.800 --> 00:52:59.559
workshops with them because I found it was a

00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.679
great talent base that had never been tapped

00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:05.619
at Disney. So it was a great process. It was

00:53:05.619 --> 00:53:08.380
a great, you know, several years away. Love being

00:53:08.380 --> 00:53:10.860
there. Love being at Disney at the same time.

00:53:11.099 --> 00:53:13.199
Yeah. So one of the things I'm kind of hearing

00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.739
too is that, you know, when you do have these

00:53:14.739 --> 00:53:17.260
big projects and either when you're at Disney

00:53:17.260 --> 00:53:20.159
and they take up a lot of your time and energy

00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:22.159
or when you're an entrepreneur and it's all the

00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:23.780
time, right? It's 24 -7 when you're an entrepreneur.

00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:26.599
Yeah, absolutely. It sometimes will come at a

00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:31.400
personal cost. And I'm curious about that because

00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:33.739
it's something that I experienced early on in

00:53:33.739 --> 00:53:35.699
my career as a divorce attorney. I unfortunately

00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:39.769
got divorced. And I kind of experienced a little

00:53:39.769 --> 00:53:42.610
bit of that. You know, for you, what were the

00:53:42.610 --> 00:53:45.269
lessons that you took from that about how that

00:53:45.269 --> 00:53:47.369
affected your personal relationships? And how

00:53:47.369 --> 00:53:49.690
did you use that to kind of shape and change

00:53:49.690 --> 00:53:52.289
and improve your future relationship? Yeah, I

00:53:52.289 --> 00:53:53.869
think that's a great question. And I think we

00:53:53.869 --> 00:53:55.869
all, many of us have struggled with that, struggled

00:53:55.869 --> 00:53:58.150
with being away from home for a long time, you

00:53:58.150 --> 00:54:02.170
know, or getting on a plane, you know. Getting

00:54:02.170 --> 00:54:04.650
home on a Friday night and realizing you have

00:54:04.650 --> 00:54:07.809
a flight out on Sunday evening, you're going

00:54:07.809 --> 00:54:11.989
to be gone again. It's tough on family life.

00:54:12.050 --> 00:54:15.050
It's tough on partners. I also got divorced,

00:54:15.250 --> 00:54:20.090
so I feel for you on that. And I think there's

00:54:20.090 --> 00:54:23.190
an absorption into the project. The project will

00:54:23.190 --> 00:54:27.920
fill every bit of you if you let it. And you

00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.519
have to just figure out your own balance because

00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:32.500
the company won't necessarily give you that balance.

00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:33.880
You're going to have to find it yourself. You're

00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:39.000
going to have to set limits. And I feel better

00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:42.780
now. I'm in a relationship with my wife and I

00:54:42.780 --> 00:54:46.860
have a daughter. I have an adult son. And I feel

00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:49.780
like I have much more balance now than I did.

00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:52.639
My son will tell you. My son is now 30 years

00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:55.050
old. He'll tell you I was just. gone all the

00:54:55.050 --> 00:54:57.090
time flying somewhere and it was part of it was

00:54:57.090 --> 00:55:00.710
because i ran the company when my son was young

00:55:00.710 --> 00:55:02.230
and then i went to disney when he was a little

00:55:02.230 --> 00:55:04.989
bit older and you know i was off at shanghai

00:55:04.989 --> 00:55:09.349
or off somewhere all the time so um i could have

00:55:09.349 --> 00:55:11.610
done it better but you learn along the way right

00:55:11.610 --> 00:55:15.269
and um you know i think you have to you have

00:55:15.269 --> 00:55:17.510
to set certain you know things life happens right

00:55:17.510 --> 00:55:19.210
and you got to figure out how you can make those

00:55:19.210 --> 00:55:22.130
things i i I spent a lot of time on this Marty

00:55:22.130 --> 00:55:24.130
Sklar book, and Marty was somebody who I know

00:55:24.130 --> 00:55:27.369
work was his life. But I learned a lot more about

00:55:27.369 --> 00:55:31.550
his family life, his respect for holidays. I

00:55:31.550 --> 00:55:34.730
went through his calendars, and you'd find his

00:55:34.730 --> 00:55:38.789
daughter's graduation or his son's dissertation.

00:55:39.110 --> 00:55:43.170
He was very careful about making sure. But his

00:55:43.170 --> 00:55:47.969
wife told me, Leah Sklar, told me that— And they

00:55:47.969 --> 00:55:51.030
recognized that Disney was a part of their life.

00:55:51.090 --> 00:55:54.349
It had to be because he was such a leader and

00:55:54.349 --> 00:55:57.230
pulled in every direction. So I don't know, Ryan.

00:55:57.309 --> 00:56:00.670
That's a tough balance. Let's work to find it.

00:56:01.449 --> 00:56:04.869
But it is a tough – there's no question. I'm

00:56:04.869 --> 00:56:06.750
more balanced now, but that's because I'm not

00:56:06.750 --> 00:56:12.469
in that – I'm not in the world anymore like that.

00:56:12.570 --> 00:56:14.429
So it's tough. I feel for everybody that's in

00:56:14.429 --> 00:56:18.369
that world. I think one of the takeaways for

00:56:18.369 --> 00:56:20.949
me with that is that we do need to work to look

00:56:20.949 --> 00:56:23.489
to find the balance that's right for us. And

00:56:23.489 --> 00:56:25.130
if we are married, that's right for our spouse

00:56:25.130 --> 00:56:27.409
and our families as well. And making sure that

00:56:27.409 --> 00:56:29.150
we have time that's dedicated to those things

00:56:29.150 --> 00:56:31.690
so we are showing up to those important events.

00:56:32.949 --> 00:56:34.949
making time for the things that are most important.

00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:37.110
So our family knows that we care and knows that

00:56:37.110 --> 00:56:39.309
we love them and appreciate them as well. Yeah,

00:56:39.309 --> 00:56:42.210
we had, I don't like this term at all. It's an

00:56:42.210 --> 00:56:46.150
HR term. It's a terrible term. It's a relocation

00:56:46.150 --> 00:56:49.010
term that they call a trailing spouse. And that

00:56:49.010 --> 00:56:53.090
means we employ the one person in the family

00:56:53.090 --> 00:56:55.130
and they're going to bring to Shanghai with them

00:56:55.130 --> 00:56:58.849
a trailing spouse. And what you learn is trailing

00:56:58.849 --> 00:57:01.690
spouse is a whole lot of wives, partners, husbands,

00:57:01.869 --> 00:57:04.010
you know, it's, It's a bunch of people who are

00:57:04.010 --> 00:57:08.989
incredibly brave to pick up their life, have

00:57:08.989 --> 00:57:12.289
it all up, some quitting jobs, to move with their

00:57:12.289 --> 00:57:15.789
spouse or their partner to Shanghai, knowing

00:57:15.789 --> 00:57:18.030
that they're going to be working 18 hours a day

00:57:18.030 --> 00:57:20.289
for a very long period of time. And so we did

00:57:20.289 --> 00:57:22.630
try to reach out. We tried to reach out. We did

00:57:22.630 --> 00:57:26.769
bus tours of the site. you know, lunches where

00:57:26.769 --> 00:57:30.349
we would invite spouses and partners out to get

00:57:30.349 --> 00:57:33.349
a briefing on how the project was going. And

00:57:33.349 --> 00:57:35.130
a lot of times people would come up to me and

00:57:35.130 --> 00:57:37.170
say, you know, I'm so glad you did this because,

00:57:37.250 --> 00:57:41.550
you know, she's working 18 hours a day. We rarely

00:57:41.550 --> 00:57:44.630
see her. She can't talk about anything because

00:57:44.630 --> 00:57:47.530
you have such confidentiality, you know, restrictions.

00:57:48.190 --> 00:57:50.269
But we came here and we got a better idea of

00:57:50.269 --> 00:57:52.429
what's going on. And we have a little bit more.

00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:54.780
sympathetic attitude toward what they're going

00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:57.340
through. You have to really say it's a family

00:57:57.340 --> 00:58:03.760
or partners or a team. We employed as many spouses

00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:06.559
and partners as we could if we found legitimate

00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.099
jobs for them and they had talent and we could

00:58:09.099 --> 00:58:12.820
bring them into the project. So it's a tremendous

00:58:12.820 --> 00:58:14.860
sensitivity. You have to constantly be reminding

00:58:14.860 --> 00:58:17.099
yourself that people have lives, they have kids,

00:58:17.300 --> 00:58:19.500
they have dogs, cats. I mean, it's just, you

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:23.400
know, and they're important, right? Just, you

00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:25.679
know, forget about it. Birthdays, you know, holidays,

00:58:25.940 --> 00:58:28.619
you know, just really do anything you can to

00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:30.400
remember your people are people and they have

00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:33.500
lives too. Yeah, I think that's great. One of

00:58:33.500 --> 00:58:35.199
the things I also want to ask you about was,

00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:39.719
I mean, obviously you must have had a close relationship

00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:42.800
with Bob Iger because he wrote the foreword of

00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:46.360
your book. I'm wondering, what's the most important

00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:49.239
lesson that you learned from him as a leader?

00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:53.199
Bob was always, always in my experience, and

00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:55.219
I think most of the people that I know will say

00:58:55.219 --> 00:58:59.840
the same thing. Bob was always positive, generous,

00:59:00.260 --> 00:59:03.659
interested, inquisitive. What are you doing?

00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:07.079
How's it working? He just had a way of stimulating

00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:10.960
positive energy. He never came into a room and

00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:14.199
left people on a down. He always, you know, even

00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:17.440
if he gave a lot of notes or had, you know, he

00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:19.639
always left on a high note. Because of his attitude

00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:25.179
and because of his generosity. Incredibly excited.

00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:30.219
He shared excitement. He pushed people in a very

00:59:30.219 --> 00:59:34.539
positive way to try new things. Why not try it?

00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:39.219
Why not try that? He had a very definitely a

00:59:39.219 --> 00:59:44.260
why not kind of attitude and gave great notes,

00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:48.590
gave great opinions. There's no way it could

00:59:48.590 --> 00:59:51.329
work for Bob Iger without feeling like you wanted

00:59:51.329 --> 00:59:53.110
to absolutely do the best thing you'd ever done

00:59:53.110 --> 00:59:56.130
in your life because he encouraged us to feel

00:59:56.130 --> 00:59:59.110
that way. And then, you know, you know, to have

00:59:59.110 --> 01:00:03.389
somebody be that positive and then to be able

01:00:03.389 --> 01:00:05.070
to reach out, you know, I reached out to him

01:00:05.070 --> 01:00:07.460
and said, you know. Could I get on Good Morning

01:00:07.460 --> 01:00:09.699
America with the book? And, you know, he makes

01:00:09.699 --> 01:00:11.760
things like that happen for you to write the

01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:14.699
foreword for the book, to do so many things for

01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:17.440
so many people. Just a great experience. Tough,

01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:19.860
tough job, you know, running a whole company.

01:00:21.039 --> 01:00:25.280
But, you know, an amazing ability to remember

01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.380
people, to remember where we were the last time

01:00:27.380 --> 01:00:30.320
we showed him this, you know. And I'll tell you

01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:32.599
one story about Bob that I think is really telling

01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:34.920
about this. There's two stories, actually, if

01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:39.360
you want to hear them. One was over a course

01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:41.380
of about six months, I reviewed all of Shanghai

01:00:41.380 --> 01:00:43.400
with him. He would come over for maybe three

01:00:43.400 --> 01:00:45.719
hours, and each day we would do Fantasyland or

01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:48.780
tomorrow we'll do Adventureland. Then we'll do

01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:52.960
Mickey Avenue. And we usually had about three

01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.780
hours of his time each day. And he gave notes.

01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:58.920
We had great sessions. And then I asked him,

01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:02.159
I said, you know, at the end, what if we do the

01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:05.369
whole park? We'll reprise the whole park. So

01:01:05.369 --> 01:01:07.550
you can see, we'll do a walk in the park, and

01:01:07.550 --> 01:01:11.309
we'll take eight hours. We'll take eight hours

01:01:11.309 --> 01:01:13.809
of your day, the entire day, and we'll start

01:01:13.809 --> 01:01:16.710
at the parking lot, and we'll just recap everything.

01:01:16.949 --> 01:01:18.929
All the notes we've taken, everything you've

01:01:18.929 --> 01:01:21.690
told us, plus walk through it. And he agreed

01:01:21.690 --> 01:01:26.010
to do it, and we did eight solid hours of meetings.

01:01:26.690 --> 01:01:29.289
And I never did this again, but at the end of

01:01:29.289 --> 01:01:33.050
that meeting, I said, Bob, we've got about 10

01:01:33.050 --> 01:01:36.480
minutes left. Would you be willing to address

01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:40.039
the team? You know, everybody just saw their

01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:44.380
work. Could you give a quick address? So I made

01:01:44.380 --> 01:01:46.519
it sound like I just, oh, hey, by the way, why

01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:48.440
don't we just do this? Well, I had planned this.

01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:53.440
I had the entire WI patio loaded with 750 people

01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:57.230
ready to see Bob Iger. So he thought I was probably

01:01:57.230 --> 01:01:58.530
going to go back to the studio and there might

01:01:58.530 --> 01:02:00.590
be 10, 15 people the way I described it. I said,

01:02:00.630 --> 01:02:03.070
well, it's just the team's gathering. So I walked

01:02:03.070 --> 01:02:05.469
out there. I walked out there with him. And he's

01:02:05.469 --> 01:02:10.670
like, what the heck? 750 people? And I'll tell

01:02:10.670 --> 01:02:13.070
you, Bob got up on the steps with me and Howard

01:02:13.070 --> 01:02:15.989
Brown, our team, gave an incredibly inspiring

01:02:15.989 --> 01:02:20.469
address. No preparation, but he had seen the

01:02:20.469 --> 01:02:24.550
park. So he could earnestly speak about his.

01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:28.519
Complete enthusiasm. That is tremendous leadership

01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:30.739
to me. I never sprung that on him again. I don't

01:02:30.739 --> 01:02:33.679
think I would try that again. But I'll tell you,

01:02:33.699 --> 01:02:36.519
one other thing with Bob Iger is we were late

01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:39.960
on Rise of the Resistance, Rise of the Resistance

01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:43.760
for Star Wars Galaxy's Edge. And it was just

01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.519
lots of programming time, lots of making sure

01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:51.420
it was reliable and all those things. And the

01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:53.059
date was coming up and we knew we weren't going

01:02:53.059 --> 01:02:55.239
to meet it. And there was a lot of pressure on

01:02:55.239 --> 01:02:57.019
me to just say, well, you're going to open. Just

01:02:57.019 --> 01:02:59.400
say you're going to open. And I had to say, it's

01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:01.639
not going to be ready. It's not going to be artistically

01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:03.699
ready. It's not going to be functionally ready.

01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:06.980
We don't want to open something and then be trying

01:03:06.980 --> 01:03:09.440
to fix it while guests are in line, right? So

01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:13.699
after a lot of back and forth, everybody's afraid

01:03:13.699 --> 01:03:17.539
to tell Bob Iger this. So I got the chief engineers

01:03:17.539 --> 01:03:19.940
and the chief software people and the chief creative

01:03:19.940 --> 01:03:22.719
people. It was a group of about... I don't know,

01:03:22.739 --> 01:03:25.260
six people is all it was of seniors in the team.

01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:30.079
And one morning we went to Bob's office and we

01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:32.559
sat down and each person talked about where the

01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:35.139
project was. And I told Bob, for these reasons,

01:03:35.179 --> 01:03:36.780
I brought the people here so he could hear directly.

01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:39.739
For these reasons, I'm recommending that we not

01:03:39.739 --> 01:03:42.179
open Rise of Resistance yet. Imagine telling

01:03:42.179 --> 01:03:44.980
Bob Iger, the most important attraction, not

01:03:44.980 --> 01:03:47.960
going to open on time. And Bob answered instantly.

01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:51.610
He said, okay, I understand it. Don't apologize

01:03:51.610 --> 01:03:54.949
for it. We'll open it when it's ready. You guys

01:03:54.949 --> 01:03:57.369
are doing the right thing. And that's why we

01:03:57.369 --> 01:04:01.489
went and did it. So that's tough. That's tough

01:04:01.489 --> 01:04:03.969
love, but that's real support. That's true support

01:04:03.969 --> 01:04:07.150
on both counts. Yeah, you guys had the courage

01:04:07.150 --> 01:04:08.949
to go to him, and then he had the courage and

01:04:08.949 --> 01:04:10.809
faith to trust you guys, that you would not come

01:04:10.809 --> 01:04:12.869
to him and say it's not ready unless it truly

01:04:12.869 --> 01:04:14.710
wasn't going to be. Yeah, if you're going to

01:04:14.710 --> 01:04:16.869
walk in there and tell him that, he's going to.

01:04:18.380 --> 01:04:20.039
Believe that you brought the experts in there

01:04:20.039 --> 01:04:23.920
for a reason. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What about

01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:26.820
with Josh tomorrow? You obviously would have

01:04:26.820 --> 01:04:29.360
had to have worked closely with him during your

01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:32.099
tenure there. He was over at Parks Entertainment.

01:04:32.300 --> 01:04:36.119
Now he's taken over as a CEO. What's the most

01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:38.260
important lesson you learned from him and his

01:04:38.260 --> 01:04:41.400
leadership? I have tremendous, tremendous admiration

01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:44.159
for Josh. And I'm so glad he's in this role.

01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:47.780
I worked. for Josh in the role of being over

01:04:47.780 --> 01:04:51.119
all parks. I think I first worked closely with

01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:54.500
him at Disneyland when he was first there, and

01:04:54.500 --> 01:04:58.119
then he took over all the parks. And he is also

01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:02.659
an incredibly collaborative leader, loves to

01:05:02.659 --> 01:05:07.699
talk creative ideas, loves to try to figure out

01:05:07.699 --> 01:05:11.159
the whole why not question, how can we figure

01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:14.949
out how to do this, tough decisions. about, you

01:05:14.949 --> 01:05:17.650
know, projects where there's lots of R &D still

01:05:17.650 --> 01:05:19.530
has to happen. And we don't know if we can, you

01:05:19.530 --> 01:05:22.070
know, do this, but we're going to embark on it.

01:05:22.130 --> 01:05:26.570
You know, he's been great. And he loves Imagineers.

01:05:26.949 --> 01:05:30.409
So you get a lot of positive vibe from him when

01:05:30.409 --> 01:05:32.969
he's at Imagineering. Great direction, great

01:05:32.969 --> 01:05:36.710
definitive, you know, creative direction and

01:05:36.710 --> 01:05:40.119
ideas. And at the same time, he's so great with

01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:42.039
guests in the park, you know, with park management.

01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:43.980
He understands the complexity of the business,

01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:48.579
you know, getting Imagineers and operators together,

01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:51.500
you know, to support big projects. He's really

01:05:51.500 --> 01:05:54.780
great. He's a great strategic mind, great collaborative

01:05:54.780 --> 01:05:57.780
mind. So I'm so happy to see the combination

01:05:57.780 --> 01:06:02.039
of Josh, who comes from that background, and

01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:04.460
Dana Walden, who comes from the media background.

01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:06.199
I think the leadership of the company is in really

01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:09.880
great hands, I think. I think, you know, tremendously.

01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:13.059
Yeah, I think it was a smart decision to have

01:06:13.059 --> 01:06:15.000
them do that the way they did with both of them.

01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:18.119
I think that's going to bring a lot to the future

01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:22.079
of the company. I'm excited to see where it goes

01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:23.780
and see where they take it and to see how they

01:06:23.780 --> 01:06:26.300
put their stamp on it. Yeah, absolutely. And

01:06:26.300 --> 01:06:30.579
it's not, you know, I worked for Michael Eisner

01:06:30.579 --> 01:06:33.400
and he, you know, I owe Michael Eisner a lot

01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:36.130
of my own career. background and advancement

01:06:36.130 --> 01:06:40.110
and then i worked you know for for bob for bob

01:06:40.110 --> 01:06:42.409
eiger and and had a great experience and i've

01:06:42.409 --> 01:06:46.449
worked for josh so i've had a tremendous uh you

01:06:46.449 --> 01:06:49.250
couldn't ask for better mentors really all three

01:06:49.250 --> 01:06:52.530
of them yeah i love it so okay so bob where i

01:06:52.530 --> 01:06:53.909
want to kind of take us from here real quick

01:06:53.909 --> 01:06:55.980
is just uh Real quick, kind of finishing up a

01:06:55.980 --> 01:06:57.840
couple of things. We do a this or that segment.

01:06:57.980 --> 01:06:59.539
So I have a few questions for you on a this or

01:06:59.539 --> 01:07:02.860
that. Meant to be fun. Nothing taken too seriously.

01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:06.519
Let's see if my synapses still work. And we'll

01:07:06.519 --> 01:07:08.159
do a quick rapid fire after that. And then at

01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:09.679
the end, what we'll do is we'll talk about those

01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:12.840
three actionable takeaways. So here's our this

01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:15.719
or that, okay? And these are gonna be some hard

01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:19.119
ones. I'm pretty sure, okay? Magic Kingdom or

01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:23.199
Epcot? Magic Kingdom. Love it. Disneyland or

01:07:23.199 --> 01:07:27.239
Disney World? Disneyland. Oh, same. It's so nostalgic

01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:29.440
for me. That's just heart. All that is is heart.

01:07:29.639 --> 01:07:31.860
I didn't mention this earlier. You asked me which

01:07:31.860 --> 01:07:34.320
one you should go get on a plane and go visit.

01:07:34.380 --> 01:07:37.199
I'd say Disney World. But you asked me for my

01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:40.559
heart. Where's my heart lie? It's coming through

01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:44.300
the tunnels at Disneyland. For sure. Okay. How

01:07:44.300 --> 01:07:48.860
about this one? Disneyland Churro or the crepes

01:07:48.860 --> 01:07:52.400
at Epcot just outside Ratatouille? I reject both

01:07:52.400 --> 01:07:55.510
options. Oh, no, you don't like either. I don't

01:07:55.510 --> 01:07:59.369
like either one of them. The only junk food choice

01:07:59.369 --> 01:08:03.309
I have at Disneyland is a hot dog from the Coke

01:08:03.309 --> 01:08:05.730
Corner on the way out. That's my favorite. Okay,

01:08:05.730 --> 01:08:07.170
that's the only thing you really like there.

01:08:07.250 --> 01:08:09.550
I see I'm a huge churro fan. I could eat churro

01:08:09.550 --> 01:08:13.949
forever. Okay, how about this one? Front row

01:08:13.949 --> 01:08:17.130
or back row on the Incredicoaster? Back row.

01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:19.560
I like the back row. You get a little more whipping.

01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:22.939
You get more whipping. Most fast rides, you get

01:08:22.939 --> 01:08:26.439
more whipping in the back row. Yeah. Star Wars

01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:30.060
or Marvel? Star Wars. Paris or Tokyo? That's

01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:31.760
hard. You know, this is tough. Oh, for sure.

01:08:31.859 --> 01:08:33.739
You're right. These are hard. But Star Wars is

01:08:33.739 --> 01:08:35.979
something I grew up with. Yeah. Star Wars is

01:08:35.979 --> 01:08:37.899
amazing. From the beginning, you know. Paris

01:08:37.899 --> 01:08:42.659
or Tokyo? Tokyo. That's easy. I built Tokyo.

01:08:42.819 --> 01:08:46.739
I built Tokyo. For sure. Um, book or a movie

01:08:46.739 --> 01:08:48.800
just in general, reading books or watching movies?

01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:51.920
Boy, that's a, that's really hard because I love

01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:54.880
movies, but I read more now than I've ever read

01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:57.659
in my life. Uh, I've never read the way I read

01:08:57.659 --> 01:09:00.279
now. So at the moment, at this point in my life,

01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:02.760
it's books. Okay. Give me what's a, what book

01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:04.100
are you reading right now that, that we should

01:09:04.100 --> 01:09:06.800
read besides of course you are. Yeah, I read

01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:10.319
a lot of books and I read a whole variety of

01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:12.380
stuff. I read contemporary stuff. I read fiction.

01:09:12.460 --> 01:09:15.640
I read nonfiction. But I also read obscure stuff

01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:20.220
that's from the 30s. And I'm reading a book called

01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:25.340
Spy right now. Okay. And it was a huge hit in

01:09:25.340 --> 01:09:29.920
1932. And when I read about these things, I go...

01:09:30.390 --> 01:09:33.069
I read a lot of World War II history stuff, which

01:09:33.069 --> 01:09:38.890
this is, by Bernard Cohen. But a lot of times

01:09:38.890 --> 01:09:43.069
I go to eBay and I try to find original editions.

01:09:43.590 --> 01:09:46.409
I read Mysterious Island, the great Jules Verne

01:09:46.409 --> 01:09:50.970
book, and I read it in an old edition with illustrations.

01:09:52.510 --> 01:09:54.930
There's something cool to me about reading an

01:09:54.930 --> 01:09:59.810
old, old book. That is old. For sure. I love

01:09:59.810 --> 01:10:01.829
it. I love it a lot. But I also watch movies.

01:10:01.869 --> 01:10:05.569
I watch movies constantly too. I watch new movies

01:10:05.569 --> 01:10:08.539
and I watch a lot of classics also. Yeah, I'm

01:10:08.539 --> 01:10:10.939
a huge movie guy. I mean, I do love reading books,

01:10:10.939 --> 01:10:14.000
though. I'm more of an audiobook, though. That

01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:14.880
was one of the things I actually loved about

01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:17.279
your book. Thank God. Thank God you are. We're

01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:19.920
all getting to make audiobooks. I love that you

01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:22.060
read yours because I'm actually always a little

01:10:22.060 --> 01:10:24.300
disappointed when somebody writes a book that's

01:10:24.300 --> 01:10:26.020
either a memoir or autobiography or something

01:10:26.020 --> 01:10:27.899
like that and they don't read it themselves.

01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:30.500
I'm always like, no, I wanted to hear you read

01:10:30.500 --> 01:10:34.340
it. It's a big commitment in time. I read both

01:10:34.340 --> 01:10:39.109
Ghost Dog and... Dream Chasing. And Dream Chasing

01:10:39.109 --> 01:10:43.569
took me 26 recording sessions. Wow. So it is

01:10:43.569 --> 01:10:46.789
a big commitment of time. And how long each recording

01:10:46.789 --> 01:10:49.649
session? Well, I think we got to a chemistry

01:10:49.649 --> 01:10:51.989
where we realized I really only was productive

01:10:51.989 --> 01:10:54.630
for about three hours. Or I'd lose my voice,

01:10:54.670 --> 01:10:58.869
focus. So we had three hours at a time. And to

01:10:58.869 --> 01:11:03.350
do an unabridged nonfiction book of almost 700

01:11:03.350 --> 01:11:06.300
pages, that's a lot. But I stuck it through.

01:11:06.619 --> 01:11:09.699
They dragged me into it, really, Ryan. And now

01:11:09.699 --> 01:11:11.899
I absolutely love it. I can't wait to do the

01:11:11.899 --> 01:11:13.739
Marty book. I can't wait to do this other book

01:11:13.739 --> 01:11:16.340
I'm doing. I will always do it if I have the

01:11:16.340 --> 01:11:18.060
opportunity now. And I'll do a better job the

01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:20.220
next time. Oh, yours was great. Honestly, it

01:11:20.220 --> 01:11:21.840
was so great to hear you read that. I absolutely

01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:23.880
loved it. Thank you so much. But I think the

01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:26.800
reason that I said books in that pairing of books

01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:30.060
and movies is because... Trying to be a writer

01:11:30.060 --> 01:11:32.180
now, I really need to read other great writers.

01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:37.779
So as much of my focus as possible is not surfing

01:11:37.779 --> 01:11:41.000
the internet or reading the news. It's reading

01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:43.539
great writers because that's what I'm trying

01:11:43.539 --> 01:11:46.479
to learn. Yeah, that makes sense. It's probably

01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:49.659
part of why, as I started this podcast in January,

01:11:49.779 --> 01:11:52.739
I listen to and watch so many podcasts now because

01:11:52.739 --> 01:11:54.979
I'm just trying to learn and understand what

01:11:54.979 --> 01:11:58.149
does it look like? What are people doing? um

01:11:58.149 --> 01:12:00.489
how can we make improvements and make it better

01:12:00.489 --> 01:12:03.949
for sure um okay let me let me hit you hit you

01:12:03.949 --> 01:12:05.770
with some quick rapid fire ones so this is kind

01:12:05.770 --> 01:12:07.029
of this first thing to come to your mind we'll

01:12:07.029 --> 01:12:09.470
only do a few um oh boy this is more synapse

01:12:09.470 --> 01:12:12.550
stuff i gotta sharpen this one's more um favorite

01:12:12.550 --> 01:12:17.739
disney movie man you're so tough on me In your

01:12:17.739 --> 01:12:20.260
book, you had said that you, as far as animated

01:12:20.260 --> 01:12:22.619
features at the time, you really liked Sword

01:12:22.619 --> 01:12:24.199
in the Stone. I didn't know if that had changed

01:12:24.199 --> 01:12:26.060
over the years. That's when I grew up. I think

01:12:26.060 --> 01:12:30.659
my favorite animated feature today is Coco. Oh,

01:12:30.779 --> 01:12:33.239
Coco's so good. Yeah, I love Coco. There's so

01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:36.479
much heart to that. Great music in it. It's a

01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:40.380
wonderful show. I also grew up with the black

01:12:40.380 --> 01:12:43.689
and white. Fred McMurray movies, like Flubber,

01:12:43.789 --> 01:12:46.350
the original one. Flubber was great. The original

01:12:46.350 --> 01:12:48.229
was amazing. I love those movies. I love those

01:12:48.229 --> 01:12:50.350
movies. They're fantastic, yeah. Yeah, they were

01:12:50.350 --> 01:12:56.090
so fun. Favorite Disney song? You have to help

01:12:56.090 --> 01:12:59.069
me with the title. It's the Dream is a Wish Your

01:12:59.069 --> 01:13:01.710
Heart Makes. Is that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. From

01:13:01.710 --> 01:13:03.430
Cinderella? It's from Cinderella, yeah. Yeah,

01:13:03.430 --> 01:13:04.729
yeah. What a wonderful song. You will have to

01:13:04.729 --> 01:13:07.430
help me with the song title. I think that's what

01:13:07.430 --> 01:13:09.430
it is. A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes. I

01:13:09.430 --> 01:13:10.939
think that's what it's called. Is that what it's

01:13:10.939 --> 01:13:12.520
called? I think it has another name. But anyway,

01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:15.939
that's my favorite. And we used it for the opening

01:13:15.939 --> 01:13:17.920
of Shanghai Disneyland. We did kind of a rock

01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:24.539
version of it. Fun. That we did. And then I used

01:13:24.539 --> 01:13:27.319
that quote as the opening of my book because

01:13:27.319 --> 01:13:29.319
it's so meaningful to me. Yeah. Yeah, it's a

01:13:29.319 --> 01:13:33.079
wonderful song. Okay, first ride you go on when

01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:36.369
you go to Disneyland. I have to give you two.

01:13:37.250 --> 01:13:41.949
It's either Haunted Mansion or Big Thunder. Both

01:13:41.949 --> 01:13:44.670
are so great. Big Thunder Mountain for me when

01:13:44.670 --> 01:13:47.149
I was a kid, I just loved it so much. I don't

01:13:47.149 --> 01:13:49.460
know what it is about. The whole start, too,

01:13:49.619 --> 01:13:51.800
when they have the fun voice and it's the wildest

01:13:51.800 --> 01:13:53.300
ride in the wilderness. There's just something

01:13:53.300 --> 01:13:54.779
about that that I love. There's something about

01:13:54.779 --> 01:13:57.779
that that has never, you know, with great kudos

01:13:57.779 --> 01:14:02.340
to Tony Baxter and with tremendous kudos to Exit

01:14:02.340 --> 01:14:03.899
Tencio and everybody that did Haunted Mansion.

01:14:04.060 --> 01:14:06.039
I love Haunted Mansion, too, which is why I wrote

01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:07.720
the book Ghost Dog, which is inspired by the

01:14:07.720 --> 01:14:10.949
Haunted Mansion. Yeah. Do you like the version

01:14:10.949 --> 01:14:13.090
that they do, Nightmare Before Christmas, during

01:14:13.090 --> 01:14:14.550
the Halloween and Christmas time? Do you like

01:14:14.550 --> 01:14:16.170
that change? I do. I think it's fun that they

01:14:16.170 --> 01:14:17.670
do that. I think it's fun that they do that.

01:14:17.710 --> 01:14:21.170
But I think that there's something about the

01:14:21.170 --> 01:14:23.890
original Haunted Mansion that just works incredibly

01:14:23.890 --> 01:14:27.989
well. I loved it so much and I was thinking,

01:14:28.029 --> 01:14:30.069
I'll never do anything this good. This is just

01:14:30.069 --> 01:14:34.329
impossible, right? And so I said, well, the one

01:14:34.329 --> 01:14:36.909
thing you could probably do, because nobody's

01:14:36.909 --> 01:14:39.430
around who did it the first time, is I said,

01:14:39.529 --> 01:14:41.670
well, I could write a book about it. So I picked

01:14:41.670 --> 01:14:46.350
out the dog in the graveyard scene that's howling.

01:14:46.649 --> 01:14:48.789
And I said, well, I'll write a movie that this

01:14:48.789 --> 01:14:52.750
dog follows a kid home. And so that's my contribution

01:14:52.750 --> 01:14:56.430
to the Haunted Mansion canon. That's an excellent

01:14:56.430 --> 01:14:59.390
one. And speaking of attractions that you have

01:14:59.390 --> 01:15:02.409
worked on, though, what's the attraction you're

01:15:02.409 --> 01:15:04.210
most proud of that you had the opportunity to

01:15:04.210 --> 01:15:06.550
work on? Yeah, see, that's the tough one, too.

01:15:06.930 --> 01:15:09.750
Because then I start to think about the things

01:15:09.750 --> 01:15:12.550
that we did that were groundbreaking and difficult.

01:15:13.170 --> 01:15:18.689
And I tend to come up with three or four. I know

01:15:18.689 --> 01:15:20.850
you're asking for one. Three or four is great.

01:15:21.289 --> 01:15:24.159
It's certainly Tower of Terror. the original

01:15:24.159 --> 01:15:29.100
in Florida. It's the new pirates that we did

01:15:29.100 --> 01:15:35.619
in Shanghai. It's Tron. And it's less of my personal

01:15:35.619 --> 01:15:38.380
effort, but tremendous management effort, which

01:15:38.380 --> 01:15:39.939
I explained to you already about Rise of the

01:15:39.939 --> 01:15:43.239
Resistance. Those things are all really, really

01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:45.880
important to me personally. Yeah. I can remember

01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:48.680
the first time I went on Rise. when you first

01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:50.640
walk out to where all the stormtroopers are.

01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:54.920
Yeah. It was the most like awe I've ever had

01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:58.119
at any park, at any attraction ever. And I just

01:15:58.119 --> 01:16:00.199
thought after going on it, this is the greatest

01:16:00.199 --> 01:16:05.529
attraction ever made. It was so impressive. Everything

01:16:05.529 --> 01:16:08.250
about the technology, but it didn't feel like

01:16:08.250 --> 01:16:09.630
it was technology. It just felt like you were

01:16:09.630 --> 01:16:11.350
there and part of it, which is what I think you

01:16:11.350 --> 01:16:13.609
guys do so well with Imagineering is that you

01:16:13.609 --> 01:16:15.670
utilize technology, but it feels like an experience,

01:16:15.750 --> 01:16:17.890
not like it's just technology, which was so amazing.

01:16:18.390 --> 01:16:23.909
I love Cosmic Rewind because the team worked

01:16:23.909 --> 01:16:27.609
so hard on it. It was a tough job to do. Kevin

01:16:27.609 --> 01:16:32.369
Fahey is an incredible creative partner. I can't

01:16:32.369 --> 01:16:34.710
control it, but I love it best when it's fun.

01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:40.180
Earth, Wind, Fire, September. So I write it whatever

01:16:40.180 --> 01:16:42.260
it is. But when that comes on, it's extra special.

01:16:42.380 --> 01:16:44.439
I just love it. Yeah, for sure. It was one of

01:16:44.439 --> 01:16:47.399
my selections when we were selecting. Oh, it's

01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:50.159
perfect. Yeah, it's a great song for it. When

01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:52.680
we were last there at Disney World in, I think

01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:55.399
it was November, I was raining terribly that

01:16:55.399 --> 01:16:57.579
day. Just a torrential downpour. I was there

01:16:57.579 --> 01:17:01.010
with my wife and two little girls. And it was

01:17:01.010 --> 01:17:02.750
the very end of the day. And the ride, unfortunately,

01:17:02.949 --> 01:17:04.729
had broken down a couple of times and we couldn't

01:17:04.729 --> 01:17:06.880
go. But we could at the end of the day. So the

01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:09.640
park was closed. And they still let my 10 -year

01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:13.659
-old and I go on that ride. And she was so over

01:17:13.659 --> 01:17:16.340
the moon about it. She was so excited that she

01:17:16.340 --> 01:17:18.520
and I got to go when the park was closed. They

01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:22.159
still let us on. It was such a fun, magical experience.

01:17:22.239 --> 01:17:23.399
I loved going with my kids. Well, my birthday

01:17:23.399 --> 01:17:26.659
is in September. So whenever it's September,

01:17:26.979 --> 01:17:29.020
I feel like it's just me. It's just they're doing

01:17:29.020 --> 01:17:31.279
it for me. They are. They are doing it for you.

01:17:31.340 --> 01:17:33.039
And I'll always think about that now. If I go

01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:34.380
on that ride and that song comes on, there's

01:17:34.380 --> 01:17:35.279
no question. If you get September, thank you,

01:17:35.300 --> 01:17:37.840
man. I'll be like, it's Bob. It's Bob. Well,

01:17:37.979 --> 01:17:39.779
thank you. It's been such a pleasure to have

01:17:39.779 --> 01:17:42.479
you on, Bob. What I want to do, if we can, is

01:17:42.479 --> 01:17:46.140
provide to our listeners three actionable takeaways

01:17:46.140 --> 01:17:48.699
or three things that, as somebody's thinking

01:17:48.699 --> 01:17:51.600
about this topic overall, about dream chasing

01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:54.479
and working towards things that are great, that

01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:57.020
stretching their imagination. What are three

01:17:57.020 --> 01:18:00.260
specific things that somebody could, put into

01:18:00.260 --> 01:18:03.520
effect in their lives today or this week and

01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:05.380
take action on that we could recommend to them?

01:18:05.619 --> 01:18:08.279
Yeah, I think that my philosophy is that everybody

01:18:08.279 --> 01:18:10.600
has interesting dreams, has interesting things

01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:13.539
they want to do. And the number one thing you

01:18:13.539 --> 01:18:17.680
can do is seek out allies. Seek out allies that

01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:19.760
can help you with that, that can help you move

01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:27.020
it forward. Be passionate yet flexible. Be passionate

01:18:27.020 --> 01:18:29.020
about what you want to do. Be flexible about

01:18:29.020 --> 01:18:31.319
how you do it, how it gets done, who can help

01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:36.560
you do it. And the best thing is keep a very,

01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:39.100
very positive attitude about your own dreams.

01:18:39.300 --> 01:18:42.579
And maybe that one will come true. Maybe the

01:18:42.579 --> 01:18:45.399
next one will come true. Maybe it will be some

01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:47.539
combination of two things you want to do. But

01:18:47.539 --> 01:18:50.180
don't give up and just keep a very, very positive

01:18:50.180 --> 01:18:53.399
and collaborative attitude toward anything you

01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:56.270
want to do. Those are absolutely fantastic. I

01:18:56.270 --> 01:18:58.550
think those are three great things that I'm personally

01:18:58.550 --> 01:19:00.250
going to make sure I've got written down and

01:19:00.250 --> 01:19:03.550
I'm going to go do as well this week to start

01:19:03.550 --> 01:19:07.029
helping to accomplish the dreams that I have

01:19:07.029 --> 01:19:09.149
in the things. Absolutely excellent. It's been

01:19:09.149 --> 01:19:11.810
such a pleasure having the opportunity to visit

01:19:11.810 --> 01:19:14.130
with you, Bob. You've been such a joy to have

01:19:14.130 --> 01:19:17.670
on here and such a positive energy and what you're

01:19:17.670 --> 01:19:19.090
bringing out and putting out to the world. So

01:19:19.090 --> 01:19:21.819
great to have you on. Well, thank you so much,

01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:24.000
Ryan. And it's been a great conversation. And

01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:26.060
I'll just, I'll do my commercial at the end.

01:19:26.100 --> 01:19:28.960
I hope people will seek out Dream Chasing as

01:19:28.960 --> 01:19:32.439
a kind of a manifesto about dreaming. I hope

01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:34.239
if you're a Disney fan, you like the Haunted

01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:37.840
Mansion, you'll seek out Ghost Dog. And in about

01:19:37.840 --> 01:19:40.439
nine months, let's get together again, Ryan,

01:19:40.560 --> 01:19:45.420
because this huge book on Marty Sklar, the 50

01:19:45.420 --> 01:19:47.680
-year patriarch of Imagineering that I've just

01:19:47.680 --> 01:19:49.439
finished writing, it's just going to the publisher

01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:52.090
now. will be coming out. So let's talk about

01:19:52.090 --> 01:19:54.170
that in nine months. Let's put it on the calendar.

01:19:54.329 --> 01:19:56.770
Yeah, absolutely. My, my recommended takeaways

01:19:56.770 --> 01:19:58.350
from my perspective, we're going to be first

01:19:58.350 --> 01:20:01.149
for everybody that you've got to go get a dream

01:20:01.149 --> 01:20:03.710
chasing. It's just, it's just absolutely phenomenal.

01:20:03.890 --> 01:20:06.750
Get it and read it, get ghost dog, and then can't

01:20:06.750 --> 01:20:09.310
wait for this book on, on Marty. I'm very, very

01:20:09.310 --> 01:20:11.970
excited for it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

01:20:12.010 --> 01:20:13.909
It's been great. And thank your whole team, everybody.

01:20:15.289 --> 01:20:18.109
As you leave this conversation, remember that

01:20:18.109 --> 01:20:20.970
yes, the past can hurt. And you can either run

01:20:20.970 --> 01:20:24.149
from it or you can learn from it. So here's to

01:20:24.149 --> 01:20:27.689
learning and finding joy in the journey. See

01:20:27.689 --> 01:20:28.189
you real soon.