The Russell Wilson Saga: From Denver to Pittsburgh

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Alex Hardy: I'm Alex Hardy.

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He's Nick Ferguson.

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We are those guys and we hope to
be your guys talking the latest

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around the National Football
League and Nick Ferguson.

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We've been teasing this pretty
much since we started the show.

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We've got a wild NFL free agency.

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Well, a tampering period
that's going on as we speak.

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However, this is going to be What we've
dubbed the Russell Wilson episode.

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Nick, your emotions.

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This has been months in the making.

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Nick Ferguson: Well, uh, no emotions
because I'm really not that much invested

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because I'm not playing, but just from
an outside view, looking in, I think

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it works best for both the Broncos.

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And Russell Wilson, because let's be
totally honest, if we want to go all the

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way back to the very beginning, and we'll
get to the Sean Payton part, but let's

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just talk about the kind of marriage
that the Broncos were trying to form with

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Nathaniel Hackett and Russell Wilson.

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To be fair, Russell Wilson was plan B.

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Aaron Rodgers was plan A.

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That's why they went
after Nathaniel Hackett.

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They pressed that button really hard.

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And then it seemed as though there
were, there was another team kind

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of creeping into the mix and that's
when the Broncos decided to make sure

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that Nathaniel Hackett didn't leave
Denver, Colorado without a deal.

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Now.

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I met him.

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He is a great person.

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Uh, I see you rocking
that Star Wars Grogu hat.

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That's right.

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He's a diehard Star Wars fan.

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All right.

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Yes, he's a great guy.

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But the only thing was, he
just kind of fell apart from

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the head coaching standpoint.

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Because, He was trying to coach
an offense that was pretty much

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built for that of Aaron Rodgers.

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And we know both Aaron Rodgers and Russell
Wilson are two entirely different players.

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And they spent that entire time trying
to get on the same page, but they

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never were able to make it happen.

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So you look at the Broncos, you look
at Russell Wilson's statistical record.

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Uh, from a stat standpoint,
wasn't that great?

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The team went 5 11.

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And now, let's get to Sean Payton.

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Sean comes in, and the idea
is by ownership, well, they

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needed to make a huge splash.

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They did not, uh, ink a deal with
Coach Harbaugh, who Finds himself

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with the Chargers, which is going
to present a whole lot of issues

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for the Broncos moving forward.

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At least twice a year.

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Yeah.

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So, so everyone knew coming in that Sean
Payton wasn't a huge fan of Russell,

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even though he did the campaign and
the circuit saying, yes, he's my guy.

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He told, even told Trey Rewingo that
yes, he's going to make it happen.

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But.

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It was anything but, and I think for
Broncos country, for the most part, it

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was rather disappointing because we knew
what Russell could do as a quarterback.

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And we knew the resume that Sean was
coming in with, but when you don't

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have a high affinity for someone
and they play quarterback, it makes

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it really difficult on everyone.

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So

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Alex Hardy: to fast forward, Russell
Wilson, leaving the Denver Broncos

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probably made sense at the top to mention
he signed a one year league minimum deal.

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Uh, with the Pittsburgh Steelers and
because of how his contract works.

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The release by the Broncos will
technically be June 1st, and they're

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gonna spread out that cap hit eating
38 million this year and close to

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$50 million, uh, for the 2025 season.

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So the Denver Broncos face themselves
in a rebuild, and I'm excited to get

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to the Pittsburgh Steelers aspect of
this, but because I have you, Nick

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Ferguson, former Denver Bronco remains
in that area, covering the team.

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You know, the fit of Russell Wilson, uh,
was doomed from the start, as you said.

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But then certainly adding
Sean Payton into the mix.

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Now I'm not here to debate, Oh, is Russell
Wilson or Ricky Williams or Herschel

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Walker, the worst trade in NFL history?

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Like that gotcha gotcha stuff is,
is not really what we're here for.

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Um, I'd still contend it was
Herschel Walker, at least until

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we see the Pittsburgh Steelers
win three Superbowls with Russ.

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Anyway, I think that for a team
that's looking to rebuild, you gave

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up multiple first round picks and
players to acquire Russell Wilson,

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and you gave up a second round pick.

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Um, in addition to more assets for
the head coach and Sean Payton.

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So for a roster that is now without a
quarterback and a roster as a whole,

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that's depleted because you talk
about trying to massage that salary

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cap number to make room for Russell
Wilson to play for somebody else,

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you have to let go of veteran guys.

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Justin Simmons, Lloyd Cushenbury, Jerry
Judy was traded into the Cleveland Browns.

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Contributors that could help
this be a winning organization.

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So, with less draft picks than what you
started with, with less salary cap to

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work with than a number of the NFL teams,
and with less talent on the roster as

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we're talking to each other right now,
for a team that's completely aligned

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under the vision of Sean Payton, how do
you dig yourself out of what perceives

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to be one of the biggest holes, um,

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Nick Ferguson: Well, before I get
into that, let's back up for a second.

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Okay, okay.

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Somewhat of an idea that, hey, what's
happening with Cushenberry, what happened

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with Judy, what happened with Simmons,
are all kind of direct indicators of

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what took place with Russell's contract.

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And you can build it
as that being the case.

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But when you look at last season and
how things were shaping out, once again,

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everything goes back to fit and the team
tried to, as it said, try to get Justin

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Simmons to kind of restructure his deal.

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But just, Justin saw the writing on the
writing on the wall and for a guy going

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into his eighth year and knowing as
though he's never been to a playoffs.

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He's not going to take less money to
join or stay with the team that he knows

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that it's not going to be as competitive.

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It's not going to be a playoff contender.

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So these are just kind of,
uh, I guess things that happen

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according to the business.

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Of football and to be totally
honest, we talk about quarterbacks

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and how much they get paid.

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When I did that, what Russell was a
really worth the money that they paid him.

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Once again, I mean, the market
value is the market value.

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We can't change that as much we want
to as analysts and as fans of the game.

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So if you want one of those marquee
quarterbacks and you don't want

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to hit the reset button with a
young guy, that's the asking price.

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Now, moving forward, as far
as what will the Broncos and

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Sean Payton do moving forward?

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It's going to be really difficult for
them, because the first thing I look

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at, I look at the division, Alex.

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I say, well, what teams are
in your division you're going

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to have to play twice a year?

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And if you can't beat those teams in your
division, we're not even talking about

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being a low seed in the 2024 playoffs.

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And knowing as though you still
have Kansas City, Harbaugh just

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joined, the chargers in Los Angeles.

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They just added Gus Edwards
as their running back.

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We don't, still don't know what's
going to happen with Austin Eckler,

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but once again, that's a huge, huge
Undertaking for the Broncos and you

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already have Max Crosby and the Raiders
add Kristen Wilkinson to that mix.

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That makes things that
much more difficult.

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So the first thing the Broncos need to do
is they need to figure out what they're

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doing with their quarterback situation.

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Is it going to be Jacoby Bissette?

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Is it going to be Sam Darnham?

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Either way you look at it, these
are just bridge players that you're

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hoping that'll buy you time To draft
a young quarterback and develop him.

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But still, you gotta worry about
stopping the opposing teams in

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your division, and not to mention,
the rest of the AFC conference.

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Alex Hardy: So, right, we're in
that period where we're seeing teams

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spending money, and players are flying
off of shelves, and You're trying

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to determine whether or not, if you
need a quarterback, you, you, you

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solve that with a veteran like the
Atlanta Falcons did with Kirk Cousins.

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Uh, meanwhile, the Broncos are just
kind of sitting idly by and the

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Kirk Cousins piece of it, Makes me
think that Russell Wilson wanted

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to sign for a team right away.

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I don't know if there was an incentive
or a motivation for him to get his

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deal done before free agency opened.

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Now, 32 teams other than your
Denver Broncos can afford a 1.

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2 million salary, but was he motivated
to get this deal wrapped up and

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then we'll kind of transition into
what this means to the Pittsburgh

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Nick Ferguson: Steelers.

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Well, yeah, of course,
Russ had some options.

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He took that trip to the Giants.

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And from what I hear, you know, there are
a couple other teams that were interested.

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How could you not?

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A guy who's going to be a Hall of Fame
player, and you get him for table scraps.

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I mean, 1.

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2 million dollars.

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I mean, you and I would love to
have that, but for Russell Wilson,

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That is just a drop in the bucket.

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That's pocket change for him.

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So it works out great for him.

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And you're right.

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He wanted to start this process long
before Frequency kicked into full

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swing because that domino everyone
was waiting for was Kirk Cousins.

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What was going to happen with Cousins?

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Was he going to stay with the Vikings?

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Was he going to move on to the
Atlanta Falcons, which he is now?

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So now that leaves the Vikings
to say, well, what are you

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going to do with Justin Fields?

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Are you going to try to trade?

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Within your division to try to acquire
a quarterback like Justin Fields.

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But Russ made the great decision.

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I mean, he went to an organization
that has historically known for

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being player friendly teams that have
proven over the fact of saying, okay,

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from Chuck Noll, uh, to Mike Tomlin.

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And those at that organization has only
had, you know, three coaches, three

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head coaches in their time period.

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And they've done two things
well, I mean, well three things.

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They've won a lot of games.

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But they also ran the ball and
they've also played great defense.

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So he's going to a team that's
eerily similar, even though they're

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a little long in the tooth and
Pittsburgh that play great defense.

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I mean, you have Cameron Hayward there.

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You got TJ Watts, Najee Harris,
which, you know, Arthur Smith's

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going to run a lot of the ball.

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And they have some weapons that
they can put around Russell Wilson.

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And I'm not gonna say it's eerily similar,
but man, it's close to what he had in

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those days with the Seattle Seahawks.

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So this is a great fit for Russ, but more
importantly, it is a proven year for him.

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And I think the relationship
between he and Mike Tomlin is

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going to make this a better fit.

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Then it was for Russell
Wilson and Sean Payton.

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I'm

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Alex Hardy: not going to pretend like
I know Russell Wilson, um, and his

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motivation, certainly at this point
of his career, but you'd have to

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imagine the last two years in Denver
were humbling part of the transaction

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of acquiring him was not just trading
for him and not having a, another

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capable quarterback on, on the roster.

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But it was the contract extension
that went on top of the two

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remaining years that he had.

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Not only did he want to be named
quarterback, but he wanted to be

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cemented and theoretically in place for
more than just the two existing years.

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Now certainly, um, how those last two
years went and getting cut before That

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contract extension kicked in has to
be some sort of motivator for him to,

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essentially what I'm asking for him is
to buy in, in Pittsburgh, understanding

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what the Roonies and Mike Tomlin
under the last 15, nearly 20 years,

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how they've run this organization.

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He just needs to be one of the guys.

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And it seems the last two stops
in Denver and certainly in

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Seattle, alienating himself from
players in the Legion of Boom.

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Um, and just sort of his
mercurial personality.

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Um, he's going to be great in terms of
what he provides for the community of

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Pittsburgh, but you just don't want to
see any special treatment, I think, with

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where he is at this point in his career.

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And I'm genuinely curious and why
I prefaced, I just, does he sign in

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Pittsburgh because he's told he's going
to be the starting quarterback for

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next Or are we actually going to see
him compete with No arguments here.

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A worse quarterback in 2023 than he was.

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And can he

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Nick Ferguson: pick it?

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Well, the whole idea of Russ being a
worse quarterback, I don't believe there's

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a lot of truth to that, even though
that narrative's been put out there.

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Look at how limited he was, uh, as
far as the creation of that offense.

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And he still was able to have eight
interceptions and 26 touchdowns.

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And maybe things go a little
different in that Patriots game.

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The Broncos find their way to win the
next two games against the Chargers,

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and also against the Raiders to
find themselves in the playoffs.

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Russell is a more than
capable quarterback.

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Now, when I think about Arthur
Smith and see, that's where

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the rubber meets the road.

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See, when, when you acquire certain guys,
when you draft them or you inherit guys,

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the game plan has to be real simple.

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How can you, as an offensive coordinator,
not showcase your ability, but the

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ability of the person who is under
center, who's playing for you.

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We know that didn't happen for obvious
reasons here in Denver, because.

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Of Sean Fate.

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Peyton feeling though Russ wasn't a
fit for his offense, but when you think

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about Arthur Smith and the quarterbacks
he's had, Marcus, Mario Yoder, he's had

239
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Desmond Ritter, he's had Ryan Tannehill.

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All three of those quarterbacks have
unique skillset that you typically don't

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see in Sean Peyton's quarterback, and
that's ability to make off schedule

242
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plays if you add that ability to make
all scheduled plays at the quarter of

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acquisition for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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Now that is eerily similar to another
quarterback that most didn't think was

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really mobile in Ben Roethlisberger.

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Here we go.

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Who's off schedule plays was able
to help keep the, get the chains

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moving, but also keep the Pittsburgh
Steelers involved in the game plan.

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I'll also add this.

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That's Steelers team's last year.

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Was plus 11 and turnover differential
Denver Broncos were plus four.

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So you get a decent run game with a
defense that can turn the ball over and

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turn it into points and a quarterback
that can make off schedule plays.

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Then I'm not going to
say let Russ Russ cook.

255
00:14:15,220 --> 00:14:17,930
I'm just saying now you got
someone who's in the kitchen.

256
00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:21,460
So all we need to do is light a flame
and give them the right utensils.

257
00:14:21,490 --> 00:14:25,360
So this could be exactly
what Russ actually needed.

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00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:27,570
Think about the fan base
that we're talking about.

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Yeah.

260
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The Steelers travel, right?

261
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:34,700
And if Russ doesn't do well, that Steelers
team, while they may not be Philly

262
00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:40,010
fans, they will let him know if he's not
performing the way that they would like.

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00:14:41,510 --> 00:14:45,930
Alex Hardy: Sure, there's a level
of expectation and certainly the

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00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:49,410
standard is the standard is what
Mike Tomlin constantly says.

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And I, you know, I appreciate
throwing out touchdown interception

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00:14:53,550 --> 00:14:58,460
numbers and, you know, Sean Payton
more or less sandbagging him because

267
00:14:58,460 --> 00:15:00,380
of, quote unquote, his offense.

268
00:15:00,630 --> 00:15:06,165
But I really just don't know If Russell
Wilson's skills and his ability to

269
00:15:06,165 --> 00:15:11,495
extend plays, um, Oh, you know, makes
up for the fact that he was dead last

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00:15:11,495 --> 00:15:15,135
in the, in the NFL last year, completing
balls over the middle of the field.

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And it was a perfect marriage with
the Pittsburgh Steelers because

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with, with Deontay Johnson and
George Pickens, they didn't throw the

273
00:15:21,740 --> 00:15:23,000
ball over the middle of the field.

274
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:27,620
However, this Arthur Smith piece
to it, where, uh, in Tennessee,

275
00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:29,840
Ryan Tannehill completed 12.

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00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,770
5 percent of his passes over
the middle of the field.

277
00:15:32,050 --> 00:15:38,750
Uh, you had, um, in, in his tenure
throughout, um, the Falcons, Matt Ryan,

278
00:15:38,890 --> 00:15:42,930
Marcus Mariota, Desmond Ritter, all
throwing the ball 12 to 15 percent of

279
00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:44,300
the time over the middle of the field.

280
00:15:44,605 --> 00:15:46,945
And also Wilson, uh, last year was 5.

281
00:15:46,945 --> 00:15:48,555
8 percent of his throws.

282
00:15:48,575 --> 00:15:50,425
As I mentioned, dead last in the NFL.

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00:15:50,755 --> 00:15:56,325
I just, I need to see it to believe
it, that if this is an expectation and

284
00:15:56,325 --> 00:15:59,805
using that middle part of the field,
where there's a greater margin for

285
00:15:59,805 --> 00:16:04,445
success, but also a razor thin margin of
error, if your passes aren't accurate.

286
00:16:04,730 --> 00:16:08,920
You know, this is the staple of the
Shanahan offense that now seems like two

287
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,000
thirds of the NFL seems to be following
are these quick hitting passes over the

288
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:19,030
middle of the field and Russell Wilson is
waiting for plays to develop and looking

289
00:16:19,060 --> 00:16:23,690
for extending plays and his deep ball
still looks great but there are these low

290
00:16:23,690 --> 00:16:29,970
percentage throws that may not show up in
the touchdown and interception ratio but

291
00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:33,990
the amount of drives that would stall out
Or, you know, the number of sacks that he

292
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:38,210
would take, which is an offensive stat,
not a quarterback stat, but I just, I

293
00:16:38,210 --> 00:16:44,000
need to see more in asking Russell Wilson
to do something that throughout his NFL

294
00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:49,380
career, certainly last year, he, he either
wasn't capable or refused to do himself.

295
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,030
So how do you meld.

296
00:16:51,445 --> 00:16:56,445
The Russell Wilson offense, which has
not changed compared to a modern NFL and

297
00:16:56,445 --> 00:17:01,345
Arthur Smith, who is certainly one that
subscribes to throwing quick passes over

298
00:17:01,345 --> 00:17:05,705
the middle of the field and allegedly,
which was hard to find, utilizing

299
00:17:05,715 --> 00:17:08,105
the skill set that his players have.

300
00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:10,780
We didn't really see that in
Atlanta, but maybe things will

301
00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:11,890
be different in Pittsburgh.

302
00:17:12,090 --> 00:17:13,270
How does Russell Wilson fit into

303
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:13,540
Nick Ferguson: that?

304
00:17:13,710 --> 00:17:17,540
Okay, here's this whole thing about,
and I hear it all the time, and you just

305
00:17:17,540 --> 00:17:20,550
brought it up, this idea that Russell's
not throwing over the middle of the field.

306
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:21,200
He wasn't.

307
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:24,360
When we start looking at those
numbers, let's look at exactly why.

308
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:27,550
Because when you look at the
triangle of the offense, right, you

309
00:17:27,550 --> 00:17:29,390
look, you start top and come down.

310
00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:33,115
You look at the explosive
plays, The intermediate plays.

311
00:17:33,205 --> 00:17:36,265
And then we look at the short
plays, the check down type plays.

312
00:17:36,475 --> 00:17:36,675
Right.

313
00:17:36,675 --> 00:17:41,515
And what I've, what I've seen in NFL,
you don't have to throw 30 explosive

314
00:17:41,515 --> 00:17:43,255
plays to be effective in the league.

315
00:17:43,295 --> 00:17:44,755
All you have to do is look at Kansas city.

316
00:17:44,765 --> 00:17:48,625
The idea is that you get the ball
in the hands of your playmakers.

317
00:17:48,715 --> 00:17:53,345
And also I'll say this, where
are more of the defenders on

318
00:17:53,385 --> 00:17:55,515
any given time on a field?

319
00:17:55,715 --> 00:17:56,615
No, that's what I, that's

320
00:17:56,615 --> 00:17:57,025
Alex Hardy: what I mentioned.

321
00:17:57,025 --> 00:17:58,285
It's, it's greater risk.

322
00:17:59,175 --> 00:18:01,175
Because of who's occupying that space.

323
00:18:01,175 --> 00:18:06,355
That's why we've seen, you know, smaller
linebackers like Fred Warner and Bobby

324
00:18:06,355 --> 00:18:08,675
Wagner being all pro level players.

325
00:18:09,245 --> 00:18:13,275
Nick Ferguson: Well, it's about being able
to attack the perimeter of the defense

326
00:18:13,315 --> 00:18:15,165
and that's where you have less defenders.

327
00:18:15,425 --> 00:18:18,265
So this is where you have
to layer your routes.

328
00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:22,890
But also, I mean, to me, when we talk
about over the middle throws, right?

329
00:18:22,890 --> 00:18:27,120
My biggest question is, well, what is our
definition of those over middle throws?

330
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,760
Because when I think about some
of those over middle throws,

331
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:31,150
I think about dig routes.

332
00:18:31,210 --> 00:18:31,470
Right.

333
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:35,040
And I also think about those, uh, cross
countries, those deep over routes.

334
00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:38,110
I mean, even though they hit the
left side or the right side of

335
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:39,940
outside of the hash, guess what?

336
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:41,840
Those are over the middle throws.

337
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:42,180
And.

338
00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:45,240
I'll say this for Russell Wilson
and other quarterbacks who've

339
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,490
been put in that category.

340
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,650
When you don't have a tight end
that can attack the middle of the

341
00:18:50,650 --> 00:18:52,500
field, it makes it problematic.

342
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:55,610
See, with Sean Payton, it was a
little different from Drew Brees.

343
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,480
Case in point, Brees didn't have
a strong arm and he wasn't mobile.

344
00:18:59,750 --> 00:19:03,670
So his whole thing was he can't extend
plays with his feet because he knew he

345
00:19:03,670 --> 00:19:05,370
couldn't because he lacked that mobility.

346
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,200
So it was all about getting the ball
out of his hands in time and the rhythm,

347
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,630
but also add this to, to, to, uh, the
whole idea of throwing over the middle.

348
00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:14,030
He had Jarrett cook.

349
00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:20,520
He had, um, I think he had Jimmy
Graham, Jimmy Graham, Jimmy Graham.

350
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,650
And then he had another tight end.

351
00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:22,780
I'm

352
00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:24,220
Alex Hardy: Jeremy Shockey there early

353
00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:24,780
Nick Ferguson: in his career.

354
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,210
Jeremy Shockey was there.

355
00:19:26,410 --> 00:19:27,880
So those are three tight ends.

356
00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:31,990
That not only can get outside and run
those sell routes, but all those guys

357
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,240
can get down the middle of the field.

358
00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:38,240
If you look at the Broncos roster,
when Hackett was here and not last year

359
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,240
under Sean Payton, who did they have?

360
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:41,320
Lucas Crowell.

361
00:19:41,850 --> 00:19:44,990
Adam Trotman, Chris Mannards, right?

362
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:47,960
And they had Greg Dosage who was injured.

363
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,130
If Dosage was healthy, he was
supposed to be that particular guy.

364
00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:55,510
So this whole idea of Russ not throwing
him over the middle of the field,

365
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,570
you can't if you don't have that guy.

366
00:19:57,860 --> 00:19:59,840
I'll go back just a
little to make a point.

367
00:20:00,270 --> 00:20:02,950
Will Disley was with Russell in Seattle.

368
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:05,630
He's not one of those guys that can
stretch the middle of the field.

369
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,400
Now, Russ did have Jimmy
Graham after Jimmy Graham came

370
00:20:09,745 --> 00:20:11,155
From this New Orleans Saints.

371
00:20:11,185 --> 00:20:12,085
Right, that's right.

372
00:20:12,105 --> 00:20:13,085
Traitor first rounder.

373
00:20:13,225 --> 00:20:16,235
That's right, but they still were not
tacking down the middle of the field.

374
00:20:16,405 --> 00:20:18,985
They were attacking outside the hashes.

375
00:20:20,135 --> 00:20:23,425
Let's go outside the
hashes, inside the numbers.

376
00:20:23,495 --> 00:20:24,855
That's where they were attacked.

377
00:20:24,905 --> 00:20:29,275
So, the idea is that Russ cannot attack
the middle of the field is not so much

378
00:20:29,275 --> 00:20:33,295
true because it comes down to scheme
and the players that you have, but

379
00:20:33,295 --> 00:20:38,575
because the numbers don't indicate that
Russ is great down between the numbers.

380
00:20:38,895 --> 00:20:41,525
The narrative has been pushed
out there that he can't do it.

381
00:20:41,965 --> 00:20:42,625
That's not a hundred

382
00:20:42,625 --> 00:20:43,235
Alex Hardy: percent true.

383
00:20:43,275 --> 00:20:44,485
He hasn't done it.

384
00:20:44,615 --> 00:20:49,835
And you can miss me with the, you know,
the highlight reel that's coming up with,

385
00:20:49,975 --> 00:20:53,995
you know, we're looking at first term
Obama era highlights or Russell Wilson.

386
00:20:54,425 --> 00:20:56,675
Tell me, he'll be successful in 2024.

387
00:20:58,205 --> 00:21:00,715
Nick Ferguson: Listen, if you're
going to make that claim, let's just

388
00:21:00,765 --> 00:21:03,545
actually be realistic about that.

389
00:21:03,545 --> 00:21:05,395
Now, does Russ have some limitation?

390
00:21:05,745 --> 00:21:06,575
That's a freakin

391
00:21:06,575 --> 00:21:07,185
Alex Hardy: loopy bucket.

392
00:21:07,185 --> 00:21:07,945
Right, that's why he's 1.

393
00:21:07,945 --> 00:21:09,795
2 million dollars for the Steelers right

394
00:21:09,795 --> 00:21:10,035
Nick Ferguson: now.

395
00:21:10,065 --> 00:21:10,755
Well, well, listen.

396
00:21:11,075 --> 00:21:15,715
The idea of an officer coordinator
Is that you take what you have

397
00:21:15,895 --> 00:21:17,045
and you make the most of it.

398
00:21:17,255 --> 00:21:20,585
The biggest mistake that office
of coordinators make, and there's

399
00:21:20,685 --> 00:21:24,155
so many that have made the
mistake of here is my system.

400
00:21:24,155 --> 00:21:26,395
I've run it for 14 plus years.

401
00:21:26,635 --> 00:21:28,655
I'm going to continue to run it this way.

402
00:21:28,895 --> 00:21:30,585
And the case is Sean
Payton and Drew Brees.

403
00:21:30,805 --> 00:21:32,995
How long was Sean Payton with Drew Brees?

404
00:21:33,205 --> 00:21:35,015
A long, extensive period of time.

405
00:21:35,935 --> 00:21:39,955
You think about how Drew Brees knew that
playbook, like the back of his hand.

406
00:21:40,215 --> 00:21:41,305
That's not the same for Russell.

407
00:21:41,815 --> 00:21:42,425
It's not the same.

408
00:21:42,425 --> 00:21:45,715
So we're not truly
comparing apples to apples.

409
00:21:45,755 --> 00:21:47,825
And here is another little nugget for you.

410
00:21:48,235 --> 00:21:52,145
If you go back to 2006, I believe
that was Drew Brees first year

411
00:21:53,245 --> 00:21:54,285
understatement in the offense.

412
00:21:54,865 --> 00:21:57,645
You look at where that team
finished and you look at Drew

413
00:21:57,675 --> 00:22:01,525
Brees numbers, known as though Drew
Brees finished their entire season.

414
00:22:02,145 --> 00:22:06,635
Russ did not finish the entire season
and he still didn't have his offensive

415
00:22:06,675 --> 00:22:08,305
coordinator scheme in place for him.

416
00:22:08,655 --> 00:22:10,335
Like Drew Brees had.

417
00:22:10,345 --> 00:22:14,775
So that changes a lot of the situation,
but Drew Brees, if I'm not mistaken,

418
00:22:14,775 --> 00:22:20,135
finished that year, I believe, with 28
touchdowns and maybe 6 interceptions.

419
00:22:20,475 --> 00:22:25,105
So, in the first year in Sean
Payton's offense, Russ wasn't too

420
00:22:25,105 --> 00:22:29,175
far off as most people like to
think, and His office and coordinator

421
00:22:29,355 --> 00:22:30,775
was not scheme in place for him.

422
00:22:30,995 --> 00:22:32,815
So what are we really talking about?

423
00:22:33,855 --> 00:22:36,185
Alex Hardy: So now we're
going back to, uh, George W.

424
00:22:36,185 --> 00:22:40,135
Bush era statistics for Nick
Ferguson to make his point.

425
00:22:41,165 --> 00:22:43,835
Nick Ferguson: We have to take an
account of that first year for one

426
00:22:43,835 --> 00:22:45,865
guy, first year for the other guy.

427
00:22:46,025 --> 00:22:47,875
That's the only way to
make a fair comparison.

428
00:22:48,155 --> 00:22:48,345
Alex Hardy: That's it.

429
00:22:48,465 --> 00:22:54,455
So when it comes to Sean Payton, the
downfall, or at least minimum, the

430
00:22:54,455 --> 00:23:02,540
two years of Broncos football, is he
ultimately responsible For this, with

431
00:23:02,540 --> 00:23:07,700
this scenario of them rebuilding,
what advice do you have for Sean

432
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,180
Payton, um, in terms of getting
that roster in a better position?

433
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,430
And more importantly, how long is
his leash if they don't turn things

434
00:23:18,430 --> 00:23:21,050
around, um, sooner than we would hope?

435
00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:24,200
Nick Ferguson: Well,
his leash is very short.

436
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,560
Regardless of the genius association
that individuals lay upon him based

437
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,055
on his resume with Drew Brees in
New Orleans, He's got a short leash.

438
00:23:33,095 --> 00:23:37,435
The thing that makes his time track fast
forward, just hit the fast forward button,

439
00:23:37,855 --> 00:23:42,545
all you have to do is look in Kansas city,
that, that, that has put his time stamp on

440
00:23:42,665 --> 00:23:48,875
every single head coach in the NFL on all
31 teams, but more importantly in the AFC.

441
00:23:49,175 --> 00:23:52,945
So more as though you, if you're in that
division, you're going to be constantly

442
00:23:52,945 --> 00:23:58,855
compared to Andy Reed and Patrick
Mahomes and oh, by the way, you were

443
00:23:58,855 --> 00:24:01,005
the head coach that finally defeated.

444
00:24:01,470 --> 00:24:03,300
Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid.

445
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:04,230
But guess what?

446
00:24:04,660 --> 00:24:07,010
You no longer have a Justin Simmons.

447
00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:09,330
You no longer have a Russell Wilson.

448
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:13,930
So he's going to be gauged and judged
by what he can do against Kansas

449
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,390
City, but in the AFC as a whole.

450
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,180
So his biggest thing is finding a
quarterback, having a plan because the

451
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:25,770
whole idea, he wanted his quarterback to
run his system and he wanted to put his

452
00:24:25,770 --> 00:24:29,490
blueprint All over this organization.

453
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:31,500
He now has his opportunity.

454
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:36,810
And the one thing I know about
Broncos country, 8 9, yeah, I mean

455
00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:39,900
everyone celebrated that, that
was a far cry better than 5 11.

456
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:42,680
But you were only three games
better than Nathaniel Hackett.

457
00:24:42,790 --> 00:24:47,100
A guy who, you said, did the
worst coaching job in NFL history.

458
00:24:47,580 --> 00:24:51,090
So now it's kind of put up,
or shut up, for Sean Payton.

459
00:24:51,485 --> 00:24:55,195
And if you don't put up, then
Broncos country is going to ask

460
00:24:55,195 --> 00:24:57,055
for him to shut up and move on.

461
00:24:57,425 --> 00:25:01,335
So, tough shoes to fill, a lot
of pressure from Sharon Payton.

462
00:25:02,615 --> 00:25:05,145
Alex Hardy: We'll get to Nick
before we split, but I have one more

463
00:25:05,145 --> 00:25:09,605
question about the Broncos before
we do wrap things up on those guys.

464
00:25:09,965 --> 00:25:12,125
Um, you ever see office space, Nick?

465
00:25:12,295 --> 00:25:12,635
Yes.

466
00:25:13,215 --> 00:25:18,975
I'm wondering if George Payton, the
general manager, is kind of looking

467
00:25:18,975 --> 00:25:23,760
around and people are asking him,
So what is it you say you do here?

468
00:25:24,030 --> 00:25:26,790
Because this is Sean
Payton's organization.

469
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,920
You look at the man who engineered
the Nathaniel Hackett signing as head

470
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,040
coach, the trade for Russell Wilson,
the extension for Russell Wilson.

471
00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:40,250
Um, what, what is it, what like,
what is George Payton doing

472
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:41,350
here at this point in time?

473
00:25:41,351 --> 00:25:41,830
Well,

474
00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:46,410
Nick Ferguson: you know what George
Payton is like, uh, a great point guard.

475
00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:47,150
Right?

476
00:25:47,260 --> 00:25:50,880
In a great point guard in basketball,
you just facilitate, right?

477
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,750
You set people up, you dish,
and you let them score.

478
00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:57,620
Right now, that is exactly what
he's doing for Sean Payton.

479
00:25:57,940 --> 00:26:01,450
And when Sean Payton walked in here,
I mean, everyone knew that, Hey,

480
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,840
listen, he's not going to walk in
here and just get a massive amount

481
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,040
of money to coach his Broncos team.

482
00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:09,660
He's a guy that wants a
significant amount of power.

483
00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:13,945
Just look at how many former coaches
or anyone who worked in the And the

484
00:26:13,945 --> 00:26:19,235
Saints organization are now members of
the Broncos staff, coaches, assistant

485
00:26:19,235 --> 00:26:21,655
coaches, to trainers, you name it.

486
00:26:21,665 --> 00:26:24,665
They may even have cooks in the
kitchen who are from New Orleans.

487
00:26:24,815 --> 00:26:28,445
That shows the level of power
that Sean Payton wields.

488
00:26:28,940 --> 00:26:32,310
Now, right now for George Payton,
it's just like, Hey, I'm gonna

489
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:34,180
do whatever I can to set you up.

490
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,480
But also with the word being set
up, you always wonder, and I've

491
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,780
been asked this question a lot.

492
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:45,490
If things don't go well, will George
Payton be set up as the fall guy?

493
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,920
And the answer to that question is yes.

494
00:26:48,210 --> 00:26:52,400
Because on all 31 other teams, when
things don't go well, no matter

495
00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:56,580
who was orchestrating things behind
the curtain, like the great Wizard

496
00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:01,145
of Oz, That GM is the one, one guy
who's going to have to deal with it.

497
00:27:01,215 --> 00:27:03,875
And think about, take you back a
couple of years, really quickly.

498
00:27:04,595 --> 00:27:08,455
Doug Whaley, who used to work
for the Buffalo Bills, right?

499
00:27:08,835 --> 00:27:10,545
Similar thing kind of happened to him.

500
00:27:11,025 --> 00:27:15,085
He got the team through the draft and
right after the draft, they released it.

501
00:27:15,445 --> 00:27:17,935
And I'm not saying that that's kind
of what's going to happen with George

502
00:27:17,965 --> 00:27:19,815
Payton, but everyone's watching.

503
00:27:20,065 --> 00:27:23,445
Bronco's country is watching and
they're constantly asking that question.

504
00:27:23,895 --> 00:27:25,515
Who's going to take the fall for this?

505
00:27:25,975 --> 00:27:29,365
And you know, just as well as I
know, there's always a fall guy.

506
00:27:30,945 --> 00:27:31,505
Appreciate

507
00:27:31,505 --> 00:27:31,865
Alex Hardy: that.

508
00:27:32,165 --> 00:27:37,245
So Nick, before we split, we had
the Oscars this past weekend.

509
00:27:37,285 --> 00:27:41,925
And I was curious, I feel every
single year that we do this, I

510
00:27:41,925 --> 00:27:43,335
see less and less of the movies.

511
00:27:43,655 --> 00:27:47,985
So Nick, before we split, would
you consider yourself a movie guy?

512
00:27:48,025 --> 00:27:53,175
And if so, anything from this past Oscar
cycle that you would You know, had you

513
00:27:53,175 --> 00:27:55,635
excited to, uh, to go back to the movies?

514
00:27:56,385 --> 00:27:59,435
Nick Ferguson: Well, yeah, I
am, uh, claim myself to be, uh,

515
00:27:59,465 --> 00:28:01,545
proclaim myself to be a movie guy.

516
00:28:01,925 --> 00:28:06,775
But some of the movies that the
Academy watches, let's be totally

517
00:28:06,775 --> 00:28:11,150
honest, over the past 20 years, Most
people really don't watch them, right?

518
00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:13,560
Does this be totally Is
that yourself included?

519
00:28:13,690 --> 00:28:14,570
Yeah, well, yes.

520
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,770
Like, sometimes there are movies that
we've seen and others that we don't see.

521
00:28:19,030 --> 00:28:21,780
And then once they win an Academy
Award, then we say, you know what?

522
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,140
Let me see what I missed out on because
we all have our movies that we like.

523
00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:32,880
But I saw Barbie and just to be
totally transparent when they first

524
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,080
announced that Barbie was going
to be a movie, I was like, there's

525
00:28:36,110 --> 00:28:37,800
no way this was going to work.

526
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,330
I'm not going to see it,
but I was suckered into it.

527
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:43,360
And I really enjoyed it.

528
00:28:43,361 --> 00:28:45,880
It was something different
than what I expected.

529
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:46,820
And then Oppenheimer.

530
00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:51,550
Now, if you're going to watch this
movie, Make sure you take off a

531
00:28:51,550 --> 00:28:56,450
couple of days because it's a long
one, but those are the two movies

532
00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:58,840
that I was really excited about.

533
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,590
And it was great to see that
they did well at the Oscars.

534
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,630
Alex Hardy: If I told you I watched
one of those movies in theaters without

535
00:29:05,630 --> 00:29:07,100
my wife, which one would you guess?

536
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,930
Nick Ferguson: I would say it was Barbie.

537
00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:11,840
Alex Hardy: I saw Barbie without my wife.

538
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:12,740
That's a true story.

539
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,190
He's Nick Ferguson.

540
00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:16,240
I'm Alex Hardy.

541
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,180
We are those guys.

542
00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:20,010
We hope to be your guys right
here on Ride the Wave Media.

543
00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:23,205
Make sure you Follow and
subscribe on YouTube.

544
00:29:23,505 --> 00:29:26,355
Uh, listen on Apple Podcasts,
wherever you get your podcasts.

545
00:29:26,575 --> 00:29:31,795
If you are interested in the Patriots
Dynasty documentary, uh, some Apple

546
00:29:31,795 --> 00:29:36,845
TV, uh, films are up for Oscars, but
the Patriots Dynasty documentary,

547
00:29:36,845 --> 00:29:38,585
we are recapping every week.

548
00:29:38,585 --> 00:29:42,705
We're doing two episodes as
Tom Brady rises and that New

549
00:29:42,795 --> 00:29:47,255
England team falls Ferguson was
right there for the start of it.

550
00:29:48,185 --> 00:29:52,885
And then you can also keep a, keep
it locked on this channel here for

551
00:29:52,885 --> 00:29:56,885
ride the wave media, because we've
got so much news to cover with free

552
00:29:56,885 --> 00:29:58,805
agent frenzy and the tampering period.

553
00:29:58,965 --> 00:30:01,995
We'll come back with you later
this week to catch you up

554
00:30:01,995 --> 00:30:03,135
on all the biggest signings.

555
00:30:03,155 --> 00:30:04,705
I think we mentioned Kirk cousins.

556
00:30:04,955 --> 00:30:09,655
We'll see what, uh, B and C level
players that the Broncos and my

557
00:30:09,655 --> 00:30:12,105
Patriots settle on in free agency.

558
00:30:12,345 --> 00:30:13,905
So without.

559
00:30:14,565 --> 00:30:17,825
Without anything else to say, what do
you have for the people, Nick Ferguson?

560
00:30:18,725 --> 00:30:19,305
Nick Ferguson: Hey!

561
00:30:19,385 --> 00:30:20,945
Don't take any wooden nickels!

562
00:30:21,885 --> 00:30:22,585
Wooden nickel?

563
00:30:23,235 --> 00:30:23,625
What?

564
00:30:24,435 --> 00:30:24,565
Yeah,