The Patriots' Rise and the Aaron Hernandez Controversy

1
00:00:02,767.0403350314 --> 00:00:03,567.0403350314
are those guys.

2
00:00:03,807.0403350314 --> 00:00:04,707.0403350314
You hear the music.

3
00:00:05,7.0403350314 --> 00:00:07,107.0403350314
It is Patriots Dynasty time.

4
00:00:07,847.0403350314 --> 00:00:09,477.0403350314
He's Nick Ferguson.

5
00:00:09,547.0403350314 --> 00:00:13,367.040335031
I'm a Christmas tree, just looking at this color combo here right now.

6
00:00:13,897.040335031 --> 00:00:15,37.040335031
I'm Alex Hardy.

7
00:00:15,67.040335031 --> 00:00:17,207.040335031
We're those guys we hope to be your guys.

8
00:00:17,707.040335031 --> 00:00:20,147.039335031
If you're just finding us, hit pause.

9
00:00:20,337.039335031 --> 00:00:20,747.039335031
Stop.

10
00:00:20,747.139335031 --> 00:00:24,787.040335031
Go back to our earlier editions of Patriots Dynasty.

11
00:00:25,47.040335031 --> 00:00:27,17.040335031
We're up to episodes 5 and 6.

12
00:00:27,742.040335031 --> 00:00:36,882.039835031
Six, as we are watching the Patriots transition from a Super Bowl loss to, you know, looking on the bright side, Bill Belichick says.

13
00:00:36,882.039835031 --> 00:00:37,932.040335031
We were 16 0.

14
00:00:37,942.040335031 --> 00:00:39,182.040335031
Let's build off of that.

15
00:00:39,352.040335031 --> 00:00:45,482.039335031
Nick Ferguson, you are leaving the Jets in 2008 and heading to the Houston Texans.

16
00:00:45,822.040335031 --> 00:00:58,302.040335031
Can you talk about joining a new team, leaving that division that Tom Brady has commanded for the last, you know, near decade at this point, um, kind of your situation as you are, you know, advancing in your own NFL career.

17
00:00:59,252.040335031 --> 00:01:06,872.039335031
Well, one thing about it, man, I mean, I played against a lot of quarterbacks, Tom Brady and Patriots worked on my side backside.

18
00:01:06,872.039335031 --> 00:01:13,262.040335031
And so so many others, but you never really get away from Tom Brady and the Patriots.

19
00:01:13,332.040335031 --> 00:01:15,182.040335031
I mean, it's like that pet stain.

20
00:01:15,652.040335031 --> 00:01:23,241.940335031
Uh, in the corner that you scrub and you spray, and you scrub some more, and you can't really get out of it.

21
00:01:23,242.040335031 --> 00:01:27,912.040335031
Because, when you look over in the corner, it still reminds you of what it used to be.

22
00:01:28,202.040335031 --> 00:01:32,692.039835031
And that's kind of what it's been like, or was like, playing against Tom Brady and the Patriots.

23
00:01:32,692.039835031 --> 00:01:37,832.040335031
You never really get away from them because, I mean, they were still playing at a high level even at that point.

24
00:01:38,872.040335031 --> 00:01:39,412.040335031
Well, of course.

25
00:01:39,432.040335031 --> 00:01:40,961.94033503
They were 16 0.

26
00:01:40,962.04033503 --> 00:01:43,872.04033503
They hit the field week one against Kansas City.

27
00:01:44,352.04033503 --> 00:01:50,312.04033503
And they're looking to, you know, they're looking to correct the mistake that was that Super Bowl.

28
00:01:50,692.04033503 --> 00:02:03,602.04033503
Uh, however, the Kansas City Chiefs and Bernard Pollard, the safety had other plans, um, hits Brady in the lower left leg, his plant leg, and it tore his ACL, knocked him out for the season.

29
00:02:03,792.04033503 --> 00:02:05,892.04033503
Nick, you played with Bernard Pollard in Houston.

30
00:02:06,52.04033503 --> 00:02:20,527.04033503
Did he ever talk about this situation with Tom? Was it a source of pride or are you guys competitors and you don't want to see anybody getting hurt? Well, Bernard, if you know anything about him, he was a physical type of see that's just kind of was in his mentality.

31
00:02:20,527.04033503 --> 00:02:21,557.04033503
That's the way he played.

32
00:02:21,917.04033503 --> 00:02:28,937.03933503
He was a competitor, but it was one of those things that he was a part of NFL history because it was against Tom Brady and the Patriots.

33
00:02:29,667.03933503 --> 00:02:34,617.04033503
But it was something that he wore on his shoulder like a badge of honor, something that happened.

34
00:02:35,182.04033503 --> 00:02:37,132.04033503
They will be forever linked together.

35
00:02:37,192.04033503 --> 00:02:42,142.04033503
Patriots fans will forever just like Bernard Pollard even years later.

36
00:02:42,222.04033503 --> 00:02:42,732.04033503
It's true.

37
00:02:43,292.03933503 --> 00:02:51,622.03933503
But it was just kind of one of those things and he didn't really talk about it that much and we didn't really ask him about it that much because you got to think about it.

38
00:02:51,662.03933503 --> 00:02:54,242.04033503
It is tough on both sides.

39
00:02:54,242.14033503 --> 00:02:56,220.66414456
I mean, Brady goes out.

40
00:02:56,220.66414456 --> 00:03:00,573.41652551
I seem like the fortunes of the Patriots are now gone.

41
00:03:00,573.41652551 --> 00:03:02,551.94033503
And then now Bernard Pollard.

42
00:03:02,932.04033503 --> 00:03:07,252.04033503
Is the poster child of, Hey, that guy hurt Brady.

43
00:03:07,402.04033503 --> 00:03:13,672.04033503
So no one wants to really talk about it, but we just knew, uh, the history and how he, uh, impacted the Patriots.

44
00:03:14,292.04033503 --> 00:03:23,72.04033503
Well, you talk about the history and Tom knows full well about how he came into his position as the starting quarterback of the New England Patriots.

45
00:03:23,72.04033503 --> 00:03:27,22.04033503
We cover that in depth in earlier episodes while we were watching Dynasty.

46
00:03:27,22.04033503 --> 00:03:29,402.04033503
Make sure to check those out if you haven't yet.

47
00:03:29,877.04033503 --> 00:03:35,507.04033503
And we're only seven years removed from Drew Bledsoe going down against you and the New York Jets.

48
00:03:35,857.04033503 --> 00:03:42,67.04033503
And so, he's having those insecurities, seeing a seventh round Matthew Castle take over.

49
00:03:42,207.04033503 --> 00:03:49,537.04033503
Um, a guy who sits down in the documentary for the first time, which is, you know, kind of the next transition of that era.

50
00:03:49,937.04033503 --> 00:03:55,547.04033503
And he talks about, he wasn't a high school, the last game he started was in high school.

51
00:03:55,842.04033503 --> 00:03:56,832.04033503
Sitting behind Carson.

52
00:03:59,292.04033503 --> 00:04:17,32.04033503
Um, and so look at the time you're at this inflection point where people have to ask, look, is this Bill Belichick success? Is this Tom Brady success? Something that we probably still haven't figured out, uh, 20 years later, Nick.

53
00:04:18,2.04033503 --> 00:04:25,862.04033503
No, you know, it's funny that you mentioned that and that's something that every player goes through because the idea is that.

54
00:04:26,342.04033503 --> 00:04:29,482.04033503
Starter doesn't lose his job to injury.

55
00:04:30,142.04033503 --> 00:04:39,392.03933503
That was the biggest lie that I was told entering to the league, because if the backup goes in, he plays well, they're going to go with the hot hand.

56
00:04:39,662.04033503 --> 00:04:41,222.04033503
That's kind of how it is.

57
00:04:41,222.04033503 --> 00:04:45,352.03933503
And, and Brady, once again, like you said, he's been in that situation.

58
00:04:45,612.03933503 --> 00:04:46,812.03933503
He knows what it's like.

59
00:04:47,262.03933503 --> 00:04:55,342.04033503
And I think that added to his competitive drive, trying to get back on the field far too early and causing so much.

60
00:04:55,767.04033503 --> 00:04:59,227.04033503
Of an infection in his leg, but that's who we are.

61
00:04:59,237.04033503 --> 00:05:21,47.04033503
I mean, that's who I mean, this is whole gladiator thing That we are associated with this as athletes and that that's who we are that that's kind of our makeup now I will say this Not every single player Shares the approach of a Tom Brady because some guys just want to be on the team Just for the sake of being on the team.

62
00:05:21,337.04033503 --> 00:05:26,807.04033503
Oh, so you're saying that not everybody wants to play 23 years in the national football league, Nick? No, no.

63
00:05:26,837.04033503 --> 00:05:30,177.04033503
There's some guys who just want to say that I'm on the roster, right.

64
00:05:30,187.04033503 --> 00:05:33,597.04033503
Just to tell their family and friends say, Hey, I play in the NFL.

65
00:05:33,697.04033503 --> 00:05:35,667.04033503
I don't really play, but I'm on the roster.

66
00:05:36,97.04033503 --> 00:05:38,647.04033503
But Tom wasn't one of those types of individuals.

67
00:05:38,647.14033503 --> 00:05:41,127.04033503
He wanted to get out there and play more importantly.

68
00:05:41,347.04033503 --> 00:05:43,607.04033503
He knew how valuable it was.

69
00:05:44,162.04033503 --> 00:05:51,502.04033503
For him to be out there and playing and having a coach like Bill Belichick, who can change like a donut box in a windstorm.

70
00:05:51,792.04033503 --> 00:05:54,982.04033503
You want to make sure that you are always on the field to show what you can do.

71
00:05:55,502.04033503 --> 00:05:56,762.04033503
Well, credit Matt Castle.

72
00:05:56,772.04033503 --> 00:06:00,422.03933503
He enters a 0 0 game and they pull out that victory against the Chiefs.

73
00:06:00,712.03933503 --> 00:06:02,912.04033503
And Nick, we saw this in 2001.

74
00:06:03,937.04033503 --> 00:06:11,387.04033503
Week two, there's just, there's nothing like a New York Jets team to step in and give confidence to a young Patriots quarterback.

75
00:06:12,147.04033503 --> 00:06:16,137.03933503
Castle goes in and dispatches the, the, uh, the Jets as well.

76
00:06:16,577.03933503 --> 00:06:31,367.03933503
Um, during this time, and I kind of want to go back to your comment about the, uh, infection that Tom Brady, you're saying that because he tried to rush back onto the field, he caused an infection in that knee that created the setback, right? Yes, exactly.

77
00:06:31,497.03933503 --> 00:06:48,72.04033503
That's exactly what happened because Once again, when you are an undrafted player, or you're taking in a sixth round, which is basically an undrafted player, you know what the odds are stacked against you, and you know what it means to get out there and compete.

78
00:06:48,482.04033503 --> 00:06:50,352.03933503
And Tom was that person.

79
00:06:50,482.04033503 --> 00:07:00,512.04033503
He tried to get out there far too early to prove to himself and the team that he was ready to go, but he created somewhat of an infection that only set him back even further.

80
00:07:01,262.04033503 --> 00:07:08,812.04033503
Well, In, in steps to the first time that we see him in the documentary, uh, Alex Guerrero, Brady's personal trainer.

81
00:07:09,142.04033503 --> 00:07:21,42.04033503
And, basically the question that he was dealing with for Tom, will, will that knee ever be the same again? It's, it's, it's obviously a physical, but the mental aspect of it as well.

82
00:07:21,342.04033503 --> 00:07:42,977.04033503
Um, Nick, you're one of the fortunate ones, you've played through plenty of injuries, but you haven't had the type that, uh, You lost an entire season over, right? You, you've missed games, but maybe the mentality of, am I the same player? Can I do the same things on this knee? Um, you know, Brady's wondering if he can do that again, the mental of it has to be that much more complicated.

83
00:07:42,987.04033503 --> 00:07:47,387.04033503
Once you're cleared by medical professionals and the physical part, you just try to go out and do it.

84
00:07:47,387.04033503 --> 00:07:50,667.04033503
But mentally there's, there's, there's a block in there.

85
00:07:51,207.04033503 --> 00:07:57,197.04033503
But then we start to see the scales kind of tip in this Belichick versus Brady dynamic.

86
00:07:57,547.04033503 --> 00:08:01,397.04033503
The scales tip towards Belichick because they're winning games.

87
00:08:03,497.03933503 --> 00:08:17,757.04033503
Well, you know what, in a lot of these cases from a fan standpoint and the media standpoint, skill always tips in the coach's favor because some fans feel as though, well, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back.

88
00:08:17,817.04033503 --> 00:08:19,697.04033503
I've been a long Patriots fan.

89
00:08:20,287.04033503 --> 00:08:21,557.04033503
for 40 plus years.

90
00:08:21,887.04033503 --> 00:08:27,157.04033503
But in that time period, how well did the Patriots play? Not too well.

91
00:08:27,597.04033503 --> 00:08:43,67.03933503
And the one thing that I would say when it looks at, you know, the, the kind of trying to decide, well, who gets more credit for a lot of those victories? I think it's twofold, but more importantly, the guy that's on the field throwing the passes.

92
00:08:43,627.03933503 --> 00:08:48,622.04033503
You gotta give that guy credit because He's actually delivering the throws.

93
00:08:48,672.04033503 --> 00:08:50,32.04033503
He's taking the shot.

94
00:08:50,42.04033503 --> 00:09:09,142.04033503
So you give the coaching staff and Bill Belichick your credit, but you were starting to see it was a tipping point where it was just like, is it Brady or is it Bill Belichick? And I think it was, uh, Danny Amendola said, look, I mean, we play for the Patriots, but we play for Tom.

95
00:09:09,562.04033503 --> 00:09:11,392.04033503
And that's really what it is.

96
00:09:11,392.04033503 --> 00:09:12,922.04033503
I want to go back for just a second.

97
00:09:13,142.03933503 --> 00:09:13,652.04033503
Yeah, of course.

98
00:09:13,912.04033503 --> 00:09:15,841.94033503
We're talking about Ryan Mallon and, and, and.

99
00:09:16,132.04033503 --> 00:09:19,802.04033503
Um, going in and, uh, Oh, Matt Castle.

100
00:09:19,802.04033503 --> 00:09:20,2.04033503
Yeah.

101
00:09:20,2.04033503 --> 00:09:20,312.04033503
Yeah.

102
00:09:20,802.04033503 --> 00:09:21,582.04033503
Not not right now.

103
00:09:21,582.04033503 --> 00:09:34,982.04033503
I mean, Matt Castle going in for Tom and playing what they did for Matt Castle was something that I thought was smart and it's part of the Patriots way and it's the one thing I loved about what the Patriots and Bill Belichick would always do.

104
00:09:35,422.04033503 --> 00:09:40,512.04033503
They would always focus on what the player can do opposed to what he can't do.

105
00:09:40,832.04033503 --> 00:09:45,322.04033503
So, that's why Castle went out there and perform well and everyone said, you know, hey.

106
00:09:45,767.04033503 --> 00:09:47,287.04033503
Brady is a system quarterback.

107
00:09:47,337.04033503 --> 00:10:00,707.04033503
And I can tell you right now, looking around the NFL in today's game, there are a lot of coaches who are so fixated on themselves and just their system, they're unwilling to acquiesce to the players that they have.

108
00:10:00,717.03933503 --> 00:10:05,767.04033503
But that was one of the reasons why Castle actually excelled because they cater to the skillset.

109
00:10:06,347.04033503 --> 00:10:13,937.04033503
Well, we see, you know, there are, I'd say we're in the minority now of teams that are focused on their system and finding players that fit it.

110
00:10:14,707.04033503 --> 00:10:34,637.04033503
But, back in 2008, how many teams outside of Bill Belichick's Patriots were accommodating for the players that they had on the roster? I feel that 15 years ago, we're talking about a National Football League where you're right, we sided with coaches and they built systems and they were just trying to plug players in.

111
00:10:34,637.04033503 --> 00:10:45,427.04033503
We didn't have too many examples of what Belichick was doing at the time, did we? Where he was catering the offense? Or Josh McDaniels rather was catering the offense to the skills that his quarterback had.

112
00:10:45,927.04033503 --> 00:10:53,607.04033503
No, you had, you had a handful who were doing that, but a majority of those coaches in the league at that time, we'll call it plays.

113
00:10:53,917.03933503 --> 00:11:03,927.04033503
They were just designing plays based on where they had been previously, who they had learned under, because that bad and good habits are hard to break.

114
00:11:03,927.04033503 --> 00:11:10,267.04033503
And sometimes when you've been doing something for so long, you get really fixed and solid in that particular position.

115
00:11:10,622.04033503 --> 00:11:29,382.04033503
And that was something that was happening around the league, but that was kind of the lure of getting players who were castoffs from other teams and they were older players for playing with the Patriots because they understood, hey, listen, there's going to be more yelling and screaming because that's kind of what Bill Belichick does.

116
00:11:29,462.04033503 --> 00:11:36,902.03933503
Not in a lot of, uh, guys being held accountable, but you knew that you were going to be put in a position to succeed because.

117
00:11:37,237.04033503 --> 00:11:38,927.04033503
They were basing things around your ability.

118
00:11:39,157.04033503 --> 00:11:40,277.04033503
I say that's the genius.

119
00:11:40,307.04033503 --> 00:11:44,587.04033503
And I'll tell you this, that genius word is tossed around too much in the NFL.

120
00:11:44,587.14033503 --> 00:11:50,167.03933503
And too many, too many coaches receive that title without officially earning it.

121
00:11:51,497.04033503 --> 00:11:52,57.04033503
That's right.

122
00:11:52,167.04033503 --> 00:12:01,547.04033503
Um, Bill Belichick, however, had cultivated decades of work before being in the limelight to where we call him a genius.

123
00:12:01,557.04033503 --> 00:12:02,677.04033503
And that all begins with.

124
00:12:03,57.04033503 --> 00:12:13,67.04033503
The next step in the documentary, which is to go back to Bill's childhood and learning under, uh, Navy coach, Steve Belichick and following his dad around.

125
00:12:13,317.04033503 --> 00:12:23,837.04033503
It was wonderful to see, um, you know, to see Bill's mom talking about it and really just the impact that surrounds Bill's childhood at the Naval Academy.

126
00:12:24,537.04033503 --> 00:12:29,687.04033503
Um, you know, that, that sort of gives credence to Dante Stallworth's quote from the documentary.

127
00:12:29,987.04033503 --> 00:12:35,167.04033503
Most coaches in the NFL are coaching football, but Bill's coaching warfare.

128
00:12:36,457.04033503 --> 00:12:51,7.04033503
And part of that was received by Matt Castle talking about getting better and understanding the criticism that Bill would give even in a win.

129
00:12:51,437.04033503 --> 00:12:51,877.04033503
Right.

130
00:12:52,387.04033503 --> 00:12:58,367.04033503
Um, I think my favorite quote from Matt Castle, this documentary, uh, he missed He missed a corner blitz.

131
00:12:59,92.04033503 --> 00:13:10,172.04033503
And Bill says to Matt, why don't you write, uh, I don't want to have to write a letter to your mother that says, sorry, your son is dead because he's a dumb ass and couldn't recognize the corner blitz.

132
00:13:10,952.03933503 --> 00:13:17,562.04033503
That's a level of coaching that maybe, uh, inspired Dante Stallworth to call it warfare.

133
00:13:18,302.04033503 --> 00:13:28,172.03933503
Well, that's kind of right out of the page of the military when you think about it, right? That's usually what those in the military have to do, write those letters.

134
00:13:28,657.04033503 --> 00:13:32,507.04033503
Those so called training accidents that, that took place.

135
00:13:32,517.04033503 --> 00:13:37,927.04033503
So with Belichick growing up around his dad, I mean, that's kind of where that mentality came from.

136
00:13:38,137.04033503 --> 00:13:47,258.06260426
Now we haven't seen it so far and I don't, maybe we see it or not, but that is where the coaching under, uh, Bill Parcells actually comes in.

137
00:13:47,258.06260426 --> 00:13:56,921.94033503
I can personally tell you how Parcells would think it was almost, it's almost, it's directly from the Bill Parcells playbook.

138
00:13:57,202.04033503 --> 00:13:57,362.04033503
Yeah.

139
00:13:57,362.04033503 --> 00:13:59,442.04033503
You're looking in a mirror with those two sometimes.

140
00:14:00,122.04033503 --> 00:14:01,422.04033503
Absolutely.

141
00:14:01,582.04033503 --> 00:14:14,482.03933503
So when you think about Bill Belichick and him growing up and developing as a young coach to the point of seeing him just kind of change the culture with the Patriots, that's where it all started.

142
00:14:14,542.03933503 --> 00:14:23,292.03933503
I mean, thinking about his early introduction to the game with his father, but then the carry over to the education coaching under Bill Parcells.

143
00:14:25,227.04033503 --> 00:15:08,307.04033503
So, with this 11 5 Patriots team with Matt Cassel, to this day, uh, you know, in 2024, Nick, is that still the best example that we have of Bill Belichick's greatness as a coach? Just barring everything else that he's done with his career, that he was 11 5 with Matt Cassel during that Tom Brady injury plague season? Well, yeah, you give Bill Belichick a lot of credit because he's a guy in charge, but really, if we're really going to talk about this, uh, in a realistic way and be transparent, I think a lot of credit should be given to Joshua Daniels, to be totally honest, because he was the guy who was leading the office at the time.

144
00:15:08,597.04033503 --> 00:15:21,922.04033503
Now, Bill may say, Hey, listen, what can we do to help, you know, Matt Cassel excel? In our offense, and only so we don't have Tom Brady, but also instill level of confidence that in the guys in the locker room.

145
00:15:22,172.04033503 --> 00:15:29,42.04033503
And it was Josh McDaniel's job to carry that out, give those plays, call those plays for Matt Castle.

146
00:15:29,42.04033503 --> 00:15:32,502.04033503
And some of the time, you know, Matt Castle's called his own play himself.

147
00:15:32,502.04033503 --> 00:15:34,652.04033503
Like, hey, he knew he was a mobile quarterback.

148
00:15:34,662.04033503 --> 00:15:40,222.04033503
He knew he was able to run a lot more than Tom was, and that helped change their offense.

149
00:15:40,222.04033503 --> 00:15:43,682.03933503
Because when you have a mobile quarterback, it changes how.

150
00:15:44,72.04033503 --> 00:15:47,662.04033503
Other defensive teams try to actually defend you.

151
00:15:47,662.04033503 --> 00:15:51,572.04033503
So they play to their strengths and credit to Josh McDaniels.

152
00:15:53,152.04033503 --> 00:15:55,782.04033503
So the 2009 season is underway.

153
00:15:56,882.04033503 --> 00:16:05,842.04033503
Brady is back and you compartmentalize everything that's being said about Belichick, the genius, Tom Brady, the system quarterback.

154
00:16:06,222.04033503 --> 00:16:11,822.04033503
Um, but it's been, it's been over a year, Nick, you know, he hasn't thrown passes in a game since.

155
00:16:12,267.04033503 --> 00:16:13,407.04033503
That Bernard Pollard hit.

156
00:16:13,607.04033503 --> 00:16:20,257.04033503
And before that, you have to go back to February of 2008, where he's in a Super Bowl.

157
00:16:20,787.04033503 --> 00:16:29,837.04033503
So there's some rust that needs to be shaken off, but just like we've seen time and time again, the Patriots were down double digits with five minutes to go.

158
00:16:30,387.04033503 --> 00:16:36,7.04033503
They get back to back touchdowns from Ben Watson, who is also good.

159
00:16:36,822.04033503 --> 00:16:43,112.040335
On offense, not just on defense, stopping what would be pick six touchdowns, but that was in the past.

160
00:16:43,112.040335 --> 00:16:44,152.040335
We talked about that already.

161
00:16:44,662.040335 --> 00:17:00,62.040335
Uh, Tom may have been returning to form, but now it's the defense that has its issues because they're struggling to replace the Patriots from the first three Superbowl championships, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison, who were there for the last two.

162
00:17:00,322.040335 --> 00:17:00,632.040335
And.

163
00:17:01,187.040335 --> 00:17:08,997.040335
All of a sudden, you know, I'm kind of taking notes and making sure we have what we want to talk about and the 2009 season is over.

164
00:17:09,237.040335 --> 00:17:16,547.039335
We're in the wild card and I look up and Ray Rice is just gashed the Patriots for an 82 yard touchdown.

165
00:17:16,967.039335 --> 00:17:24,757.040335
Um, I, I just remember it as clear as day and it's the first wild card game loss that they've had with Brady under center.

166
00:17:25,207.040335 --> 00:17:53,697.040335
And so the emphasis is getting this team better on both sides of the ball, and what we're about to do as we transition to episode 6 is talk about Aaron Hernandez, who obviously was a talented football player, had his issues that many of which came to light after he was found guilty of murdering Odin Lloyd, other You know, a double homicide shooting is just, um, a terrible, terrible individual who happened to be gifted at football.

167
00:17:54,77.040335 --> 00:17:59,717.040335
And, the Dynasty documentary is about to do 35 minutes on Aaron Hernandez.

168
00:18:00,307.040335 --> 00:18:36,897.040335
And, you know, there are some concerns that I have that this documentary is Less about the football, but I completely understand that telling this Patriots story, you have to include Aaron Hernandez, you have to include Spygate, but to devote five minutes on back to back Super Bowl titles compared to 35 minutes on Aaron Hernandez is a little incongruent for me, uh, as a fan, but I think after we're coming off of the success, and you use that, that, that G word, genius word for Bill Belichick.

169
00:18:37,462.040335 --> 00:18:43,802.040335
We start finding issues kind of undermining the success that he's had to this point.

170
00:18:43,802.040335 --> 00:18:49,202.039335
Nick, I don't know how you feel about taking this detour from the football to talk about Aaron Hernandez.

171
00:18:50,342.039335 --> 00:18:57,402.040335
Well, I know it's very difficult for every fan, especially Patriots fans to hear about this chapter, but this was part of it.

172
00:18:57,612.040335 --> 00:19:04,882.040335
You can't talk about the Patriots and what they were able to do without mentioning Aaron Hernandez going back to the decision.

173
00:19:05,387.040335 --> 00:19:18,687.040335
That was made to actually draft him in Orange, though there were a couple of red flags, but the idea was that, hey, listen, his ability was supersede anything that he could have done at Florida and this whole Odin Lloyd thing.

174
00:19:18,697.040335 --> 00:19:21,257.039335
No one really saw that coming.

175
00:19:21,607.040335 --> 00:19:30,97.040335
Maybe a guy who was having his, uh, internal issues, but maybe not to this particular magnitude and something that was pointing out.

176
00:19:30,467.040335 --> 00:19:33,267.040335
And I do believe that it was true because.

177
00:19:33,757.040335 --> 00:19:42,667.0070017
You go back to Florida where there was an incident at the bar and you look at Urban Meyer and how they were able to get Hernandez out of that situation.

178
00:19:42,667.0070017 --> 00:19:59,267.040335
That points to, I mean, the role in the, I guess, the wrong direction making him feel as though, wow, this happened and now I can get out of it because of this and people will always look to help me because my athletic ability is like the rearing of children.

179
00:19:59,747.040335 --> 00:20:03,137.040335
If you make false promises and you don't follow through on your discipline.

180
00:20:03,637.040335 --> 00:20:05,347.040335
They're going to test the defenses.

181
00:20:05,347.040335 --> 00:20:08,337.040335
They're going to say, okay, well, my dad is full of hot air.

182
00:20:08,337.040335 --> 00:20:09,407.040335
They're not going to do anything.

183
00:20:09,697.040335 --> 00:20:17,207.040335
But that also spoke to the difference in philosophies from Robert Crabb to that of Bill Belichick.

184
00:20:17,467.039335 --> 00:20:26,7.040335
And that said a lot about the inner turmoil that was going on within the organization that no one on the outside didn't know until now.

185
00:20:27,617.040335 --> 00:20:51,557.040335
It's interesting because you Take that, that risk, right? There was reports at the time that they mentioned the documentary, that he was completely off of other teams, draft boards, uh, or as Ernie Adams, who was really candid, I mean, in 2024, talking about, um, Aaron Hernandez, that he was a first round talent to them, that they were able to pick up in the fourth round.

186
00:20:51,877.040335 --> 00:20:57,467.040335
And after getting, uh, Devin McCordy in the first round, Rob Gronkowski in the second round, uh, and shout out.

187
00:20:57,812.040335 --> 00:21:03,222.040335
Zach Robinson, the Falcons offensive play caller and coordinator, uh, a seventh round pick of theirs.

188
00:21:03,562.040335 --> 00:21:13,702.040335
Um, so football can be, you know, a career, even if it doesn't work out playing on the football field, but they were so focused on winning.

189
00:21:13,712.041335 --> 00:21:25,912.039335
And I think that's the thread that the documentary is trying to tie that whether it's Spygate in episode three, compared to Aaron Hernandez now rearing his head in episode six.

190
00:21:26,307.040335 --> 00:21:34,667.040335
That the Patriots and under Bill Belichick, that's kind of what we're getting at, right? Bill Belichick was willing to do whatever it took to win football games.

191
00:21:35,27.040335 --> 00:21:42,197.040335
And as much of it was part of the success, it's also his most fatal flaw.

192
00:21:43,377.040335 --> 00:21:44,757.039335
Yeah, it was.

193
00:21:44,917.039335 --> 00:21:49,107.040335
And sometimes in coaching, there's a tendency to overthink things.

194
00:21:49,477.040335 --> 00:21:52,457.040335
And like I told you before, having fixed viewpoints.

195
00:21:52,537.040335 --> 00:21:57,182.040335
And when you look at the Aaron That's exactly, you know, what happened.

196
00:21:57,322.040335 --> 00:22:06,22.040335
Hernandez was excelling at one part of his life, and that was his professional life, but his off the field life was a little bit chaotic.

197
00:22:06,812.040335 --> 00:22:18,152.040335
But you have to ask yourself, okay, well, how many players in that locker room should have noticed it? How many did notice it, but decided to not pay attention to it? Because, hey, we're all grown men.

198
00:22:18,482.040335 --> 00:22:24,342.040335
We all have our own lives, and the fact that Hernandez was in Bristol.

199
00:22:24,812.040335 --> 00:22:37,432.040335
That's the part that didn't really help, right? Because it helps to be outside of your environment, but knowing as though he was only hours away from where he grew up and a troublesome, you know, neighborhood or area.

200
00:22:37,742.040335 --> 00:22:42,302.039335
And now you're linking up with your old friends because guess what? One of us made it.

201
00:22:42,422.040335 --> 00:22:44,402.040335
Now you're the talk of the town.

202
00:22:44,602.040335 --> 00:22:45,242.040335
We all made it.

203
00:22:45,932.040335 --> 00:22:46,292.040335
Right.

204
00:22:46,292.040335 --> 00:22:48,142.040335
So, so you made it, we made it.

205
00:22:48,462.040335 --> 00:22:53,466.940335
And with that being said, there is a part of this.

206
00:22:53,817.040335 --> 00:23:06,827.040335
That speaks beyond the whole Aaron Hernandez thing where you have guys who are still loyal to uh, the streets and areas that they came from because they can't escape that particular life because they feel as though they owe people something.

207
00:23:07,367.040335 --> 00:23:08,447.040335
You don't owe them a damn thing.

208
00:23:08,947.040335 --> 00:23:10,397.040335
You're the one that made it out.

209
00:23:10,677.039335 --> 00:23:38,871.940335
And this was kind of a situation when I think it's part, you know, what Hernandez went through, but also His surroundings kind of overtaking him opposed to his dedication and loyalty to his team and organization who took a chance on him.

210
00:23:39,212.040335 --> 00:23:44,882.040335
Um, you know, Belichick was coaching a team that was in need of offensive firepower.

211
00:23:45,82.040335 --> 00:23:46,832.040335
Randy Moss separates his shoulder.

212
00:23:46,982.040335 --> 00:23:54,982.040335
So in response, McDaniels and Belichick craft this offense around a pair of rookie tight ends, and they finished with a 14 and two season.

213
00:23:55,502.039335 --> 00:24:03,282.040335
Um, you know, you talk about Robert Kraft and he took on a role as a paternal figure for Aaron Hernandez, who lost his father at a young age.

214
00:24:03,282.040335 --> 00:24:03,732.040335
That kind of.

215
00:24:04,577.040335 --> 00:24:11,197.040335
Created this, this spiraling downward because that was the man that kept him in line and kept his priorities straight.

216
00:24:11,497.040335 --> 00:24:17,397.040335
And, you know, the donation to Myra, Myra, um, you know, uh, uh, Mr.

217
00:24:17,397.040335 --> 00:24:20,327.039335
Craft's late wife had passed just a year ago.

218
00:24:20,327.039335 --> 00:24:38,827.040335
So donating to her foundation out of his own pocket, um, you know, Returning some of the signing bonus that he had on his contract extension was a big gesture for Robert Kraft to sort of look over may what may have been happening underneath and maybe off the field.

219
00:24:38,967.040335 --> 00:24:42,517.040335
And oh, by the way, the Patriots go back to another Super Bowl.

220
00:24:42,757.040335 --> 00:24:46,427.040335
But again, in Dynasty, we're not really going to focus on that.

221
00:24:46,597.040335 --> 00:24:48,437.040335
Anyway, back to Aaron Hernandez.

222
00:24:49,717.040335 --> 00:25:19,792.040335
What was bubbling underneath Should have potentially had more play than their success on the football field or the donation to the Meyer craft foundation, but Brandon Lloyd, who joins the team in 2012, um, was, was warned by Wes Welker about the perils of having your lockers between Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski and the kind of disgusting behavior and language that Hernandez would subject you to.

223
00:25:20,292.040335 --> 00:25:26,202.040335
Um, and in steps, Wes Welker, he's been on the team for four years at this point.

224
00:25:26,212.040335 --> 00:25:27,811.940335
He was there in 2007.

225
00:25:27,812.040335 --> 00:25:29,692.040335
He was there for 2011.

226
00:25:29,842.040335 --> 00:25:48,632.039335
But the first time we see Wes Welker in this documentary is to talk about Aaron Hernandez, which I thought was kind of a surprise, but he says that after trying to take him under his wing, being his vet, playing in multiple places and earning his keep after being an undrafted player, um, for everything he tried to do, he just couldn't help Hernandez.

227
00:25:49,207.040335 --> 00:25:52,597.040335
And, um, Deion Branch's perspective was great as well.

228
00:25:52,807.040335 --> 00:26:02,7.040335
Um, talking about more of the players that had the warning signs living across the street from Aaron Hernandez and kind of seeing things that would happen in his domestic life.

229
00:26:02,497.039335 --> 00:26:11,197.040335
Um, you know, but he sort of took on this burden, um, to be responsible for him and kind of as his keeper.

230
00:26:11,627.040335 --> 00:26:13,197.040335
Uh, just the closest with him.

231
00:26:13,517.040335 --> 00:26:18,107.040335
And maybe, Nick, you have examples, certainly not in the case of, You know, and Aaron Hernandez.

232
00:26:18,107.040335 --> 00:26:32,557.040335
But if you have a guy that's kind of mercurial or not necessarily with the program quite as much as you may have been, you know, branch just had this burden put on him by the coaching staff that if there were any issues with Aaron Hernandez, they didn't talk to Aaron Hernandez.

233
00:26:32,567.039335 --> 00:26:37,307.040335
They just asked Dion like, Hey, is, is he good? And that was it.

234
00:26:37,967.040335 --> 00:26:44,817.040335
But this is where the aiding and abetting take place, right? For Bill Belichick, he didn't want to know.

235
00:26:45,287.040335 --> 00:26:45,527.040335
Right.

236
00:26:45,537.040335 --> 00:26:48,747.040335
All he wanted to know based on what he was doing on the field.

237
00:26:49,367.040335 --> 00:26:52,57.040335
And at that point Hernandez was doing a lot on the field.

238
00:26:52,57.040335 --> 00:26:57,57.040335
So that's the only thing that Bill cared about as it pertains to Robert Crabb.

239
00:26:57,677.040335 --> 00:27:04,397.040335
You talked about the gesture to his wife and donating the money and taking him under his wing.

240
00:27:04,737.040335 --> 00:27:09,27.040335
Once again, I mean, we all know our friends and our kids and family members.

241
00:27:09,467.040335 --> 00:27:15,927.040335
Who are doing, you know, not so good things that go against the ethics of the family or even society itself.

242
00:27:16,77.040335 --> 00:27:18,147.040335
We all know who those individuals are.

243
00:27:18,147.140335 --> 00:27:20,407.039335
I mean, Belichick didn't want to know.

244
00:27:21,27.040335 --> 00:27:31,777.040335
Kraft, you know, to his credit, he didn't want to know, but he was unaffected by it because he was thinking about being that surrogate parent for Aaron Hernandez.

245
00:27:32,687.040335 --> 00:27:35,857.040335
And as a parent, you don't want to see the worst in your kid.

246
00:27:36,387.040335 --> 00:27:45,927.040335
And because of that, I'm not going to blame them and say, well, they were the fault of what happened to Odin Lord because that's solely on the shoulders of Aaron Nandis.

247
00:27:46,667.040335 --> 00:27:54,787.040335
But if they tried to look at some of the early warning signs, maybe they would have been able to push him in a different direction.

248
00:27:54,797.040335 --> 00:28:03,267.040335
The biggest thing was when things have reached a tipping point, Aaron Nandis knew that he was in the thick of it and things were about to collapse.

249
00:28:03,847.040335 --> 00:28:04,807.040335
He asked for a trade.

250
00:28:05,202.040335 --> 00:28:12,162.040335
Why are you asking for a trade? Because now you're trying to leave and vacate the area of madness that you created.

251
00:28:12,532.040335 --> 00:28:17,502.040335
And Belichick said, no, I'm not, I'm not doing it right.

252
00:28:17,872.039335 --> 00:28:25,942.040335
Would that have changed Hernandez if he was shipped out to Seattle somewhere else? No, because you are who you are.

253
00:28:26,422.040335 --> 00:28:31,402.040335
And it's proved since his days at Florida that that inner turmoil was inside of him.

254
00:28:31,682.040335 --> 00:28:32,652.040335
And it's unfortunate.

255
00:28:33,142.040335 --> 00:28:35,102.040335
That his teammates couldn't have him work through it.

256
00:28:35,882.040335 --> 00:28:46,332.040335
Well, you mentioned the trade request and I thought the documentary, that was really the first leap of faith that I saw that was really beyond the scope of what actually happened.

257
00:28:46,342.040335 --> 00:28:56,182.040335
Because Bob Holler, who's been an investigative reporter for the Boston Globe for decades and, you know, had done great work surrounding this, um, Aaron Hernandez case.

258
00:28:56,422.040335 --> 00:29:00,922.039335
He essentially implies that Hernandez wanted to be traded.

259
00:29:01,532.040335 --> 00:29:02,682.040335
Belichick says no.

260
00:29:03,77.040335 --> 00:29:09,227.040335
What happens if Belichick says, yes, could, could, could, bill Belichick, could have been the one to prevent the murder of Odin Lloyd.

261
00:29:09,587.040335 --> 00:29:14,507.040335
And I'm saying to myself like, this is not, it's not, it's not realistic.

262
00:29:14,507.040335 --> 00:29:28,157.040335
It's, it's, it's, you know, you can, you can have criticisms of aided and aiding and abetting like you, like you said, Nick, but to think that the, the life of Odin Lloyd was in Bill Belichick's hands, I think personally was irresponsible.

263
00:29:28,157.040335 --> 00:29:30,287.040335
The documentary to imply, um.

264
00:29:30,737.140335 --> 00:29:33,157.040335
It's just how I feel.

265
00:29:33,177.040335 --> 00:29:40,817.040335
But that's where they really took, I think, I don't know, a creative license and, and, and wrote a check that they couldn't cash, Nick.

266
00:29:41,617.040335 --> 00:29:45,737.039335
Well, yeah, I mean, it's not Robert's Kraft's fault.

267
00:29:46,227.040335 --> 00:29:55,677.040335
It's not Bill Belichick fault because, Hey, listen, they, they were not the ones that ended Odin Lloyd's life and attempted to cover it up.

268
00:29:56,17.040335 --> 00:30:00,707.040335
Could they have done some things different differently? Yeah, they could.

269
00:30:00,727.040335 --> 00:30:02,647.040335
Hindsight is always 20 20.

270
00:30:03,17.040335 --> 00:30:05,647.040335
Well, let's be realistic about what we're actually talking about.

271
00:30:06,437.040335 --> 00:30:14,737.040335
Based on Aaron Hernandez's troubled past, I mean, it could have been Odin Lloyd in Seattle, in Las Vegas, somewhere else.

272
00:30:14,747.040335 --> 00:30:22,717.040335
It could have been someone, somewhere else because Hernandez was a ticking time bomb and that no one decided to put the fuse out.

273
00:30:23,197.040335 --> 00:30:24,357.040335
And I know how difficult it is.

274
00:30:24,367.040335 --> 00:30:25,467.040335
You mentioned Wes Walker.

275
00:30:25,877.040335 --> 00:30:29,747.040335
When the young guy comes into the league, he listens to some of the veterans.

276
00:30:29,927.040335 --> 00:30:48,157.040335
Once that player, and this is not, I don't want to generalize, but this happened with some players, when they start getting that taste of success, people calling their last name on their jersey, cheering them, that power has a tendency to change a lot of people, not for the better, but for the worse.

277
00:30:48,187.040335 --> 00:30:52,677.040335
Then you add a troubled past into the mix.

278
00:30:53,157.040335 --> 00:31:02,337.040335
It was just a recipe, uh, for disaster, but I'll tell you, I didn't notice something as they were talking about Aaron Hernandez and his whole situation.

279
00:31:03,297.040335 --> 00:31:05,567.040335
They didn't talk to Tom Brady.

280
00:31:05,637.040335 --> 00:31:06,427.040335
We didn't see Brady.

281
00:31:06,827.040335 --> 00:31:13,27.040335
No, we didn't see a Rob Gronkowski, a guy whose locker was right next to him and he shared the same room.

282
00:31:13,167.040335 --> 00:31:21,737.039335
So the first thing I thought was why didn't those two guys speak? Because one of those guys being Rob Gronkowski probably knew him.

283
00:31:22,112.040335 --> 00:31:23,972.040335
Aaron Hernandez better than anyone.

284
00:31:24,452.040335 --> 00:31:24,872.040335
Sure.

285
00:31:27,122.040335 --> 00:31:29,612.040335
Uh, it's, it's, it's, yeah.

286
00:31:29,702.040335 --> 00:31:42,62.040335
I mean, based, you know, the, the common thread that I have is that both Brady and Gronk are still working with the National Football League as both broadcasters for Fox.

287
00:31:42,542.040335 --> 00:31:50,47.040335
Um, you know, the people that were candid about Aaron Hernandez no longer had official roles with the Patriots.

288
00:31:50,597.040335 --> 00:32:05,347.040335
Or with the national football league, it was Ernie Adams that I mentioned, you know, the other players we brought up, um, Wes Walker is a coach, but as far as the Patriots are being, um, you know, a face or a, an extension, a talking piece from the national football league.

289
00:32:05,797.039335 --> 00:32:44,797.040335
I think there are legitimate concerns about who was allowed to speak, who wanted to speak and what repercussions would come from bringing up the, you So I, you know, to that point, Nick, to take such a emphasis on his life, his story, his death, and not, and, and actively choose not to speak to those closest to him, I think is, you know, another, another hole to kind of point out when they devote this kind of time to the story.

290
00:32:44,817.040335 --> 00:32:48,537.039335
And just one of the few criticisms that I've had of this documentary so far.

291
00:32:50,622.040335 --> 00:33:08,472.040335
Yeah, that's very interesting because most people feel as though this is being presented and things being presented from a Robert Kraft standpoint, and it's all directed and the di and, and I guess the direction of Bill Belichick, it, it's not as, it is not as ham fisted as last dance was with Michael.

292
00:33:08,502.040335 --> 00:33:08,802.040335
Right.

293
00:33:08,802.040335 --> 00:33:08,892.040335
Right.

294
00:33:08,892.040335 --> 00:33:12,342.040335
Like they're doing a better job of that, but yet I understand where you're coming from.

295
00:33:12,912.040335 --> 00:33:13,272.040335
Yeah.

296
00:33:13,392.040335 --> 00:33:17,437.040335
And look, even at the end, Robert Kraft said that.

297
00:33:18,702.040335 --> 00:33:26,312.039335
They made a mistake, right? He, he, he, he acknowledged that there was something done wrong on his part.

298
00:33:26,542.040335 --> 00:33:31,732.039335
He didn't say exactly what, but he did acknowledge some kind of wrongdoing.

299
00:33:31,742.040335 --> 00:33:44,682.040335
So this was a dark cloud over the Patriots organization and the organization who had already dealt with, um, Spygate, then it was the Flategate, and then you had this whole thing with.

300
00:33:45,172.040335 --> 00:34:01,312.039335
You know, Aaron Hernandez and it made a lot of individuals around the league who were fans of other teams take a deeper closer look at what was considered to be the Patriot way and trying to understand what does it mean to be a Patriot.

301
00:34:04,32.039335 --> 00:34:05,112.039335
He's Nick Ferguson.

302
00:34:05,282.040335 --> 00:34:06,202.040335
I'm Alex Hardy.

303
00:34:06,412.040335 --> 00:34:09,602.040335
Those were episodes five and six of Dynasty.

304
00:34:10,72.040335 --> 00:34:16,982.040335
Celebrating the Patriots rise and downfall, um, through their 20 years of success with Tom Brady, with Bill Belichick.

305
00:34:17,232.040335 --> 00:34:19,612.040335
Neither of whom were featured in Episode 6.

306
00:34:19,822.040335 --> 00:34:29,922.040335
So, as we continue to discuss this, um, documentary, I want to remind you that you can find us, those guys, wherever you get your podcasts.

307
00:34:30,252.040335 --> 00:34:34,292.040335
Um, on Apple Podcasts and on YouTube if you want to take a look at us.

308
00:34:34,292.040335 --> 00:34:37,192.040335
If you're listening, you can see our reactions.

309
00:34:37,492.040335 --> 00:34:46,907.040335
Uh, and just watch the Furrowed brow I have when criticizing, you know, what I've seen in this last episode, but make sure to be here this time next week.

310
00:34:46,907.040335 --> 00:34:49,207.040335
We'll be handling episodes seven and eight.

311
00:34:49,547.040335 --> 00:34:55,667.039335
And for those of you that, um, want to catch up on the news around the NFL, prepare for the draft.

312
00:34:55,857.039335 --> 00:34:57,437.040335
You can listen to those guys.

313
00:34:57,577.040335 --> 00:35:00,747.040335
We, we tackle the NFL topics at large.

314
00:35:01,7.040335 --> 00:35:03,457.040335
Um, so feel free to check us out.

315
00:35:03,752.040335 --> 00:35:19,132.040335
If you're interested in the Patriots, this documentary, or if you just want your general NFL news, some topics that we like to throw around, especially with the perspective of Nick Ferguson, former NFL safety, uh, you can follow him at Nick Ferguson, underscore 25.

316
00:35:19,342.040335 --> 00:35:23,462.040335
He's been grinding tape, getting ready for the NFL draft, looking at top quarterbacks.

317
00:35:23,822.040335 --> 00:35:29,392.040335
Um, and really just residing with the fact that Jarrett Stidham will be the Broncos quarterback come week one.

318
00:35:29,762.040335 --> 00:35:30,252.040335
So.

319
00:35:30,692.040335 --> 00:35:34,302.040335
Um, I'm looking forward to, uh, seeing you again, Nick.

320
00:35:34,542.040335 --> 00:35:41,912.039335
And until next time for Dynasty Documentary, what do you have for the people? Keep your eyes on your luggage.

321
00:35:43,852.040335 --> 00:35:44,342.040335
Peace.