Feb. 29, 2024
The NFL Combine: An Inside Look with Those Guys
Discussions on NFL Combine and Quarterback Prospects
In this engaging conversation on "Those Guys", hosts Alex Hardy and Nick Ferguson discuss a range of topics related to NFL Combine. They dive deep into the history and pronunciation of the term 'Combine,' and move on to discuss the importance of physical stature and demonstrated potential in draft prospects. They spotlight and critique several quarterbacks, including Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, and J. J. McCarthy. They also touch on the issue of maximizing athletes' potential and adapting football schemes to drafted players. Towards the end, the hosts discuss controversial actions by Cam Newton at a youth football tournament, reflecting on the implications for young players and their image of leadership.
#NFLCombine #QuarterbackClass #CalebWilliams #JadenDaniels #DrakeMay #UndraftedPlayers #SizeDoesntMatter #AvoidingContact #CamNewton
00:00 Introduction and Hosts
00:16 NFL Combine: History and Pronunciation
01:40 The NFL Combine: Quarterback Prospects
01:52 The Journey of an Undrafted NFL Player
02:48 The Importance of Perseverance in the NFL
02:56 The Value of Late Draft Picks
05:17 The NFL Combine: Top Quarterback Prospects
05:45 The NFL Combine: Player Participation
06:10 The NFL Combine: Player Evaluations
06:36 The NFL Combine: Player Rankings
10:54 The NFL Combine: Player Size and Potential
13:43 The NFL Combine: Player Performance
19:52 The NFL Combine: Player Behavior
22:29 The NFL Combine: Player Impressions
24:33 Conclusion and Sign Off
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We are those guys, and we want to be your guys.
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You can catch us here on Ride the Wave Media exclusively on YouTube, uh, Apple, if you like seeing his pretty face and my ugly mug.
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I'm Alex Hardy, Nick Ferguson with me.
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A special time, uh, for the NFL.
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We've got the combine this week, Nick.
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Yes, Matt, it is, is it the combine or combine, what is, whatever it is.
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I'm so glad you brought this up.
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Totally organic here.
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Uh, the word should be combine because if you go back in the old history book, when the NFL was pinching pennies and trying to think of a cost effective way to evaluate the draft classes, they went from three locations and combined them to create the combine.
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So did you just want to call it, I'll do my best, from here on out, it's the NFL combine.
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We combined three places they used to work out these college prospects and they combined To now go to Indianapolis, so Listen man, I'm not an English professor, but I know modern day, uh, English that we use now came from the UK.
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And based on certain vowels, uh, the pronunciation of certain things are different.
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Just think, you know, W A T E R, it's water.
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But they pronounce it water.
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Right? It sounds a little different.
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So maybe that's the whole thing when it comes to Combine and come on.
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No, no.
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I took one grammar class in college, uh, so I know you're just full of it.
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the NFL combine continues this week.
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Uh, we're gonna get to the money players, the quarterbacks.
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Uh, you know, three top guys, uh, that we're not going to see a whole lot of this weekend.
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So we'll get into that.
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But first, Nick Ferguson, you're a 10 year NFL safety, playing for multiple teams, and yet, you weren't invited to combine at all.
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So tell me, it's one of my favorite things, we've been working together for such a long time.
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And I would love to bring to this audience, you know, um, your, your ability to manifest a career despite not being out in the underwear Olympics and really being able to show off your, your, your physical stature and everything that you could bring to the table.
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Um, with all the NFL teams watching.
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So it's not over just because you weren't in Indianapolis for the Combine.
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No, I wasn't in Indy for the Combine.
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Nor did I participate in the East West Shrine game, uh, the Senior Bowl in Mobile.
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Uh, it looked really discouraging and for those who did not, it may seem discouraging to them.
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But I'll just say, listen man, it's not how you get in, it's what you do when you get there.
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That makes you more of who you are.
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I'll say this.
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Every single year, we hear all this talk about quarterbacks.
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And a lot of those guys go in the top five in a draft.
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But majority of those guys don't pan out.
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There are more guys who pan out who are undrafted guys or guys who are taken late.
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Case in point, we look at Jalen Hurts who went to the sewer boat.
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He wasn't drafted in the first round.
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No.
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Brock Purdy! Mr.
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Irrelevant! 2 6 6.
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That's right.
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Not drafted at all.
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So, there is opportunity in the league, uh, for guys to actually make a long career.
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And that's all based on how you get in.
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And for me Look, it was about getting in.
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It was about hard work.
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I went to NFL Europe.
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I went to the CFL.
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I played two consecutive years of football.
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I'm talking about going from the CFL to NFL Europe to being in NFL camps before I actually broke in.
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So you got to have that relentless, die hard type of attitude.
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And the first time you're faced with adversity, Alex, you just can't tuck your tail between your legs, shoot the deuces, take your ball and go home.
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If the NFL is your dream, That is your dream, man.
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You have to make sure that every stone is turned over to make sure you have an opportunity.
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And that's what I was able to do to carve out a 10 year career as an undrafted player.
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I appreciate that, Nick.
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You know, your story as an undrafted player, not having the same opportunities as everyone else, is something that reverberates, and those players are the glue.
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Or, in the case of the LA Rams last year, half the roster were these undrafted rookies that were able to make an impact, carve out a role.
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Um, and you know, you get, you get late draft picks.
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I mean, they had successful guys like Puka Nakua, um, you know, and I think Ernest, uh, Jones as well.
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So I just, there's, there's so much that you can gather from this weekend, but.
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You know why we're here.
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We want to talk about those elite quarterbacks.
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There are three in particular, and it is, uh, the end of February, beginning of March here.
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So let's get as many as six quarterbacks in the first round.
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Everybody addresses their need.
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Uh, I see that Broncos helmet right over your shoulder.
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We'll get to them as well.
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Uh, we still gotta do that Russell Wilson episode.
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I think next week, based on, uh, a certain appearance he made and Sean Payton's response at the Combine, uh, earlier this week.
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So Three quarterbacks presumed to be at the top of the draft class.
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You have Caleb Williams out of USC, the uh, 2022 Heisman winner.
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You have dra Jay Daniels, the 2023 Heisman winner out of LSU, and you have Drake May who, uh, was a quarterback for North Carolina aged the last two years.
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No Heisman, but certainly has been in that conversation.
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All three of them will appear.
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They'll meet with teams, they will measure in, but.
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No throwing, no agility, no position drills at all.
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So your thought process for guys, um, each of these whom missed the playoffs, didn't play in their bowl game, didn't play in a competitive post season bowl, whether it's the East West or the Senior Bowl, and now not participating in the Combined.
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So your thoughts, Nick, on those three guys not showing out, and really, we haven't seen them play in, well, about two and a half, almost three months now.
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Yeah, it's been a while, and for certain guys, if you're the top guy at your given position, I can see why not.
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If you're Caleb Williams, I can see why not.
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You're the projected number one overall.
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Is he your top guy too, as long as we're talking projected? Yes, yes, yes, he is.
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And Marvin Harrison Jr.
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He is the top receiver on the board, so he's not participating.
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So I don't have a problem if you are one of the top guys, but if you are the second, third, fourth, fifth guy, you need to be out there.
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You brought up something that was quite interesting.
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A lot of these guys haven't played in a long time.
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And some of them did not play in their bowl games for the obvious reasons.
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They didn't want to get hurt.
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I go back to Jake Butt who played for Michigan Wolverines a couple years ago.
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He got injured in the Orange Bowl.
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Totally derailed his NFL career.
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So I understand that.
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More recently too, a more contemporary reference would be Matt Corral.
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Yes.
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As well, when he was at Ole Miss.
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Yes, absolutely.
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So I understand the risk part of it.
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But, once you get to this stage, this part of the evaluation process, Which is the NFL combined, right? Not now.
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There he is.
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See, now I'm following you.
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There he is.
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So you really want to show what you can actually do.
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And I think it's, in my opinion, it's going, it's not going to benefit a guy like Drake may not participate in because I know he's projected.
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On some, some of my draft boards as being the second guy.
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Other, other people, I think it's Daniel Jeremiah, had, they have, uh, uh, think it, Jaden Daniels as being that, that second quarterback taking off the board.
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But knowing as though you have Bo Nix, you have JJ McCarthy, and you have Michael Penix all participating at the combine, when you think about Drake, Drake, Drake May, to me, your, your lasting impression is gonna be on your pro deck.
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So if your pro day doesn't go the way that you hoped that it would go, the scouts are going to walk away with that final image in your mind.
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If you go to the combine, see now I'm juggling back and forth.
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I blame it all on you.
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But if you go to the combine and you have a subpar performance in certain areas, now you have your pro day to pick up on those things and show where you've improved.
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And Drake may, to be totally honest.
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I don't view him as being the top quarterback in this draft class period, based on what Bo Nicks did.
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No, I mean, you just said Caleb, but is he 2 or 3 for you? I mean, where's your hot take here, Nick? Where are we going? Well, for me, Caleb is number 1.
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Jane Daniels is number 2.
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I would even put Bo Nicks number 3.
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Wow, there it is.
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I'm even inclined to put Pinnicks Over Drake May if he passes his medical with flying colors.
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So the, so your concerns for this is just for May or May and Daniels that The emphasis is for them to go out and prove at the combine that they are the number two quarterback behind Kayla Williams without participating, without seeing Jaden Daniels run, which is clearly something that will separate him from the rest of this group, including Kayla Williams.
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That's a detriment for him, or this is just a Drake May problem for you? Well, for me, I Jaden Daniels actually participate, too, because with these young quarterbacks, it only cements your position as is.
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Right? And if there were any flaws in your game, that any scouting, uh, evaluators may have thought, you can dispel those, those ideas by just showing up and participating.
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Right? And I want to see those guys throw with wide receivers that they're not familiar with, just to see what their accuracy and their timing is, but because they're not throwing, then now we have to wait until their pro days, but still, for me, I still give, uh, the kind of leverage To that of James Daniels over that of Drake May because I mean, James Daniels played at once upon a time in Pac 12.
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Yes.
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He transferred to the SEC and played at LSU.
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And I go back to that game he played against the University of Florida where he shredded them through the air and on the ground.
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Give me a game that you saw Drake May do that.
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Give me one.
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You can't.
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There isn't.
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No.
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There isn't.
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So, listen.
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I don't.
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This is like Drake May, but I wanted to see him throw, so he can just make sure that he checks all the boxes.
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Right, he's gonna check some boxes, and I think without throwing, without running, the boxes he may check is, he looks like a NFL quarterback, right? He was listed 6'4 220, 230 pounds.
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Um, and, you know, allegedly he's going to interview really well.
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At least that's what all the reports are.
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And certainly, uh, our old friend Mack Brown at North Carolina, uh, running a pro type of organization there for the Tar Heels.
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Um, I'm curious about Jaden Daniels and Caleb Williams and even J.
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J.
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McCarthy lumped them in.
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And we'll get to, you know, those senior quarterbacks, um, in just a moment here.
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But size certainly last year when it came to Bryce Young became such a talking point.
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And you talk about growth.
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Where, you know, Bryce Young, uh, literally is trying to put on pounds.
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Or Kenny Pickett from the combined all the way to his pro day was able to grow his hands a quarter of an inch.
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Because he doesn't, he doesn't have that magic finger like you do there, Nick Ferguson.
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But, uh, it just, that, that, time out, that just threw me off.
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Because you showed me the finger, I lost my train of thought.
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That's gross, man.
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I just ate.
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That's what, that's what playing football 365 days a year for two years will do to your hands.
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Um, my train of thought was where? Right.
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So, size is something that matters and especially for Caleb Williams.
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Let's focus in on Jaden Daniels.
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I think listed on LSU's, uh, you know, official website.
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We'll get his official measurements at the Combine.
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Dang it, Combine.
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He's going to be, uh, I think the best size and weight comp at around 6'4 And 210 pounds is Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, who, as we mentioned, make sure you check out our Dynasty series.
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We're watching the Apple TV.
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Patriots Dynasty Documentary and recapping those.
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You wouldn't stop calling him a baby giraffe, Nick.
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And I took offense to it.
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A scrawny baby giraffe.
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Um, that's kinda where Jaden Daniels is coming in though.
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And unlike a Lamar Jackson, or even a Jalen Hurts, not the same size weight, those are guys that you don't see getting, um, blown up at least once or twice a game.
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Cause I saw that Florida game.
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He, he had a couple of hits where you just watch him get up and on the one hand you're like, Wow.
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That's an amazing ability, but at the same time, how could he put himself in position to take a hit that severe? Yeah, Anthony Richardson is another comparison.
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This massive guy that, you know, got injured twice in his first four games And I sort of worry, especially at Jaden Daniels size, that if he's not, you know, that Russell Wilson baseball slide Um, you know, he may end up with health concerns of his own if early in his career he's relying on his legs, like Anthony Richardson was.
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Well, listen man, uh, that whole weight thing is overrated.
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Just like you said, uh, you talk about Anthony Richardson.
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He is a solid dude, very tall, very compact muscle wise, but he got injured.
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Right.
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So we know injuries are part of the game, no matter how big or how small the guy is.
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It's going to happen, but I know the idea is if he's a little frail, then he's going to be broken like a twig.
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I'll take you back for the sake of argument.
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Let's go back to the year, uh, I think it was Baker Mayfield was in the draft class, Lamar Jackson and Josh Rosen, right? And it was said that, well, Lamar is a little frail and no one really knew how he was going to be able to sustain the pounding in the league.
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And guess what? Josh Rosen was about three to four pounds heavier than he was.
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But everyone was concerned about Lamar and not Josh Rosen.
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And one of those guys, one of those guys, had his second MVP.
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The other guy, not in the league anymore.
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So we have to be really careful when we put a value on size because that really doesn't matter in the NFL anymore.
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Colin Murray is not a big guy.
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We see him move around and do certain things.
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Baker Mayfield, not a big guy, moving around.
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Russell, you can look now and you can look back in his heyday with the Seattle Seahawks.
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Dispels all those rumors, but there was something you brought up that I think is worth discussing.
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You talked about J.
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J.
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McCarthy.
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Everyone's wondering what is his weight going to be? He could gain weight just to show that he bulked up for this because That's what guys do with the one or two months before the NFL combine is they try to bulk up and guess what? He reminds you Eerily of another Michigan quarterback and Tom Brady.
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Oh, no Explain me that one So I say that to piggyback off your comparison because Tom was a six round draft choice We know the story I played against him Look at what he was able to do.
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Now, I'm not suggesting that McCarthy would be able to do the same thing, but at the same time, you gotta be patient with these guys.
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You have to.
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And size isn't the only thing that you focus on.
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No, I, I, I speak about size with the caveat that I also mentioned the ability to avoid contact.
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You mentioned Baker, you mentioned Lamar Jackson, there was also this guy that went 7th overall, Josh Allen, where if he's the one initiating the contact, he's the one giving out the punishment as opposed to receiving it.
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So I just, for Jaden Daniels sake, um, it's just the ability to, uh, tuck and run, which is crucial for his game.
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But at the same time, if he's going to initiate the contact, does he have to expose himself as much as he has been? is not as important as it is avoiding contact in the first place.
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Um, J.
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J.
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McCarthy's an interesting one.
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Uh, Tom Brady's certainly not the best example.
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I just say because you had, you had more, you just had more Tom Brady starting for two years, whereas J.
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J.
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McCarthy and Jim Harbaugh's offense was able to run the football, and he wasn't asked to throw more than 20, 25 times a game.
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So the types of throws that you want to see at the next level Um, you're sort of projecting for J.
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J.
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McCarthy, uh, but, much like the NBA model, he is younger than those other two quarterbacks he's been grouped with, where you're very high on Bo Nix, maybe not as much for Michael Penix, but I think the best example we have, just to round out this quarterback class, is that those two guys participated in the Senior Bowl, while those presumed top three, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and Drake May, did not.
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And yet, they stayed right where they were based on their performances as a senior bowl.
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Do you feel that for a pair of 23 year old, 5 year college students, that what you see is what you get? That they've not maxed out on potential, but that what they ran in college is kind of what they've been molded into at the next level? I would definitely agree with that, but I would also add this to it.
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Any quarterback who is projected to go in the first round, he's a byproduct of the talent that was around him on a collegiate level.
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He's a byproduct of the play calling, and he is beneficial of being in the same system for so many years where he knows that system in and out.
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And all you have to do if you are a team looking for one of those quarterbacks, all you have to do is say, This is my guy, I'm going to cater my system.
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Similar to what he experienced on the collegiate level to the pro level.
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You only run into a problem where you run out of patience or you don't have patience at all.
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Or you're a team that say, look, we already have a scheme.
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We're going to bring you into our scheme and force you to learn our scheme.
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To me, that's the most idiotic philosophy that you can have.
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And how many times have you seen it in the pros? The idea is, you're drafting a guy, you're sold on him, you change everything you need to change to fit that particular guy if you're drafting him in the first round.
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It's that simple.
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I mean, you've got the guy at a minimum five years, maybe six with a franchise tag.
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Uh, you have to, one, give him the time, but also Taylor make everything so that you're in the best position to allow that player to succeed.
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It'll be exciting to see how that combined shakes out.
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Especially with the top of that quarterback class.
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I'm thrilled that we at least get to touch on those six quarterbacks.
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I'm sure that you know as of late February early March, let's put five, let's put six of them in the first round.
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Your Denver Broncos of course gonna trade whatever it takes to move up and get one of those guys.
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I just You know, we can, we can get into specific team needs over the month of March and early April with the draft, uh, more than a month away.
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Uh, but I, I guess if we transition to talking about a potential number one pick going to a former number one overall pick, Cam Newton.
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Uh, we spotted over the weekend in a seven on seven, uh, youth football tournament.
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Uh, Involved in a, what would you call it, I wouldn't call it a brawl, it was pretty one sided Nick, Cam just took care of business I guess, disagreements with some of the youth coaches, which again, we're here for kids, and yet this fight kind of breaks out, but were you kind of reminded of, not to make too much light of this, but Nick, were you kind of reminded of Cam Newton on the football field as he's one by one kind of taking care of each of these guys that felt More than words was what Cam needed that, that afternoon.
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Yeah man, I'll tell you this.
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Uh, I, I saw Cam down in Vegas.
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And uh, I mean at 6'6 about 240, 250.
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That's a very large man.
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And what I liken it to is a video I saw a couple of weeks ago on TikTok.
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Where there were about six lioness trying to take down a male giraffe.
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And I'll say, say this.
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The lioness did not eat that night because that giraffe kicked their butt.
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That's exactly what it reminded me of.
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But listen, man.
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It's the top hat, isn't it? Yes.
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And once again, his hat did not move, but the optics of it all.
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That was the bad part of it because I listened to the two guys who were in the altercation, the two main guys, get on the podcast and say, They know Cam, and Cam was talking trash.
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I mean, look, the colder the street is, that's what happens.
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Whether you play a pick up basketball game, or even when we were in high school and you were playing table football, there was a lot of trash talk.
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And if you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.
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That's right.
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But the bigger thing is, what was the message that you sent to the youth football players who were standing by watching? You are a coach of young men.
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You're trying to build young men.
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And this is what you said.
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This is how you handle a situation.
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Because someone is trash talking, you decided to embark in fisticuffs.
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This is a bad look all around, if you ask me.
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Well, that was wild, Nick.
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Your comparison to images out in the wild was nothing short of what I expected from you.
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He's Nick Ferguson.
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That was, uh, one quick Nick before we split.
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We have just a moment of time here.
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Uh, Nick, before we split, your favorite quarterback combined performance that you just saw? What he looked like and whether it turned out well or not, who won the Underwear Olympics in your mind in recent years? You know, Anthony Richardson, uh, he was one of those guys who coming out of Florida had a lot of questions.
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Level of accuracy.
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Can you be a leader in the league? How he was going to translate his ability to the NFL and being a young quarterback.
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Did he have the football IQ and watching his pro day, but more importantly, watching him at the combine, the way the ball jumped off his hands, ball placement, just the kind of leadership that he had because the optics part is really important.
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You're going to have multiple top quarterbacks.
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At the combine and you want to see which guy elevates his level of play or even his leadership standing with what is perceived to be other alpha males, but Anthony Richardson was definitely able to do that.
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And that propelled him to being a first round pick for the Colts fourth overall.
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So shout out Bryce Young, his people, the University of Alabama, whatever it took that entire weekend in Indianapolis a year ago, we never saw a side by side of Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson.
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Just as polarizing as that would look.
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Uh, at NickFerguson underscore twenty five, he'll be grinding tape of more than just the quarterback class, although we'll get to it.
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Your Denver Broncos certainly may be looking at it, as are my New England Patriots.
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Which reminds me, you can always check us out later this week.
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We'll have the exclusive Ride the Wave Media Dynasty re watch, where Nick Ferguson and I break down Two episodes at a time of Apple TV's Dynasty, The Rise and Fall of the New England Patriots.
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And we're exclusively on YouTube.
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Apple, wherever you can find your podcast, you can download us anytime that you'd like.
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Uh, I'm looking forward to the draft.
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Nick Ferguson, you're looking forward to the draft.
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We are those guys, and we want to be your guys.
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You can catch us here on Ride the Wave Media exclusively on YouTube, uh, Apple, if you like seeing his pretty face and my ugly mug.
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I'm Alex Hardy, Nick Ferguson with me.
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A special time, uh, for the NFL.
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We've got the combine this week, Nick.
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Yes, Matt, it is, is it the combine or combine, what is, whatever it is.
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I'm so glad you brought this up.
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Totally organic here.
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Uh, the word should be combine because if you go back in the old history book, when the NFL was pinching pennies and trying to think of a cost effective way to evaluate the draft classes, they went from three locations and combined them to create the combine.
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So did you just want to call it, I'll do my best, from here on out, it's the NFL combine.
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We combined three places they used to work out these college prospects and they combined To now go to Indianapolis, so Listen man, I'm not an English professor, but I know modern day, uh, English that we use now came from the UK.
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And based on certain vowels, uh, the pronunciation of certain things are different.
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Just think, you know, W A T E R, it's water.
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But they pronounce it water.
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Right? It sounds a little different.
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So maybe that's the whole thing when it comes to Combine and come on.
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No, no.
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I took one grammar class in college, uh, so I know you're just full of it.
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the NFL combine continues this week.
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Uh, we're gonna get to the money players, the quarterbacks.
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Uh, you know, three top guys, uh, that we're not going to see a whole lot of this weekend.
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So we'll get into that.
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But first, Nick Ferguson, you're a 10 year NFL safety, playing for multiple teams, and yet, you weren't invited to combine at all.
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So tell me, it's one of my favorite things, we've been working together for such a long time.
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And I would love to bring to this audience, you know, um, your, your ability to manifest a career despite not being out in the underwear Olympics and really being able to show off your, your, your physical stature and everything that you could bring to the table.
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Um, with all the NFL teams watching.
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So it's not over just because you weren't in Indianapolis for the Combine.
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No, I wasn't in Indy for the Combine.
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Nor did I participate in the East West Shrine game, uh, the Senior Bowl in Mobile.
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Uh, it looked really discouraging and for those who did not, it may seem discouraging to them.
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But I'll just say, listen man, it's not how you get in, it's what you do when you get there.
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That makes you more of who you are.
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I'll say this.
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Every single year, we hear all this talk about quarterbacks.
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And a lot of those guys go in the top five in a draft.
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But majority of those guys don't pan out.
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There are more guys who pan out who are undrafted guys or guys who are taken late.
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Case in point, we look at Jalen Hurts who went to the sewer boat.
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He wasn't drafted in the first round.
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No.
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Brock Purdy! Mr.
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Irrelevant! 2 6 6.
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That's right.
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Not drafted at all.
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So, there is opportunity in the league, uh, for guys to actually make a long career.
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And that's all based on how you get in.
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And for me Look, it was about getting in.
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It was about hard work.
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I went to NFL Europe.
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I went to the CFL.
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I played two consecutive years of football.
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I'm talking about going from the CFL to NFL Europe to being in NFL camps before I actually broke in.
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So you got to have that relentless, die hard type of attitude.
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And the first time you're faced with adversity, Alex, you just can't tuck your tail between your legs, shoot the deuces, take your ball and go home.
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If the NFL is your dream, That is your dream, man.
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You have to make sure that every stone is turned over to make sure you have an opportunity.
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And that's what I was able to do to carve out a 10 year career as an undrafted player.
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I appreciate that, Nick.
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You know, your story as an undrafted player, not having the same opportunities as everyone else, is something that reverberates, and those players are the glue.
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Or, in the case of the LA Rams last year, half the roster were these undrafted rookies that were able to make an impact, carve out a role.
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Um, and you know, you get, you get late draft picks.
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I mean, they had successful guys like Puka Nakua, um, you know, and I think Ernest, uh, Jones as well.
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So I just, there's, there's so much that you can gather from this weekend, but.
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You know why we're here.
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We want to talk about those elite quarterbacks.
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There are three in particular, and it is, uh, the end of February, beginning of March here.
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So let's get as many as six quarterbacks in the first round.
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Everybody addresses their need.
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Uh, I see that Broncos helmet right over your shoulder.
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We'll get to them as well.
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Uh, we still gotta do that Russell Wilson episode.
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I think next week, based on, uh, a certain appearance he made and Sean Payton's response at the Combine, uh, earlier this week.
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So Three quarterbacks presumed to be at the top of the draft class.
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You have Caleb Williams out of USC, the uh, 2022 Heisman winner.
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You have dra Jay Daniels, the 2023 Heisman winner out of LSU, and you have Drake May who, uh, was a quarterback for North Carolina aged the last two years.
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No Heisman, but certainly has been in that conversation.
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All three of them will appear.
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They'll meet with teams, they will measure in, but.
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No throwing, no agility, no position drills at all.
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So your thought process for guys, um, each of these whom missed the playoffs, didn't play in their bowl game, didn't play in a competitive post season bowl, whether it's the East West or the Senior Bowl, and now not participating in the Combined.
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So your thoughts, Nick, on those three guys not showing out, and really, we haven't seen them play in, well, about two and a half, almost three months now.
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Yeah, it's been a while, and for certain guys, if you're the top guy at your given position, I can see why not.
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If you're Caleb Williams, I can see why not.
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You're the projected number one overall.
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Is he your top guy too, as long as we're talking projected? Yes, yes, yes, he is.
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And Marvin Harrison Jr.
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He is the top receiver on the board, so he's not participating.
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So I don't have a problem if you are one of the top guys, but if you are the second, third, fourth, fifth guy, you need to be out there.
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You brought up something that was quite interesting.
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A lot of these guys haven't played in a long time.
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And some of them did not play in their bowl games for the obvious reasons.
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They didn't want to get hurt.
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I go back to Jake Butt who played for Michigan Wolverines a couple years ago.
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He got injured in the Orange Bowl.
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Totally derailed his NFL career.
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So I understand that.
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More recently too, a more contemporary reference would be Matt Corral.
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Yes.
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As well, when he was at Ole Miss.
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Yes, absolutely.
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So I understand the risk part of it.
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But, once you get to this stage, this part of the evaluation process, Which is the NFL combined, right? Not now.
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There he is.
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See, now I'm following you.
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There he is.
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So you really want to show what you can actually do.
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And I think it's, in my opinion, it's going, it's not going to benefit a guy like Drake may not participate in because I know he's projected.
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On some, some of my draft boards as being the second guy.
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Other, other people, I think it's Daniel Jeremiah, had, they have, uh, uh, think it, Jaden Daniels as being that, that second quarterback taking off the board.
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But knowing as though you have Bo Nix, you have JJ McCarthy, and you have Michael Penix all participating at the combine, when you think about Drake, Drake, Drake May, to me, your, your lasting impression is gonna be on your pro deck.
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So if your pro day doesn't go the way that you hoped that it would go, the scouts are going to walk away with that final image in your mind.
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If you go to the combine, see now I'm juggling back and forth.
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I blame it all on you.
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But if you go to the combine and you have a subpar performance in certain areas, now you have your pro day to pick up on those things and show where you've improved.
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And Drake may, to be totally honest.
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I don't view him as being the top quarterback in this draft class period, based on what Bo Nicks did.
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No, I mean, you just said Caleb, but is he 2 or 3 for you? I mean, where's your hot take here, Nick? Where are we going? Well, for me, Caleb is number 1.
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Jane Daniels is number 2.
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I would even put Bo Nicks number 3.
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Wow, there it is.
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I'm even inclined to put Pinnicks Over Drake May if he passes his medical with flying colors.
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So the, so your concerns for this is just for May or May and Daniels that The emphasis is for them to go out and prove at the combine that they are the number two quarterback behind Kayla Williams without participating, without seeing Jaden Daniels run, which is clearly something that will separate him from the rest of this group, including Kayla Williams.
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That's a detriment for him, or this is just a Drake May problem for you? Well, for me, I Jaden Daniels actually participate, too, because with these young quarterbacks, it only cements your position as is.
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Right? And if there were any flaws in your game, that any scouting, uh, evaluators may have thought, you can dispel those, those ideas by just showing up and participating.
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Right? And I want to see those guys throw with wide receivers that they're not familiar with, just to see what their accuracy and their timing is, but because they're not throwing, then now we have to wait until their pro days, but still, for me, I still give, uh, the kind of leverage To that of James Daniels over that of Drake May because I mean, James Daniels played at once upon a time in Pac 12.
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Yes.
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He transferred to the SEC and played at LSU.
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And I go back to that game he played against the University of Florida where he shredded them through the air and on the ground.
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Give me a game that you saw Drake May do that.
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Give me one.
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You can't.
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There isn't.
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No.
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There isn't.
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So, listen.
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I don't.
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This is like Drake May, but I wanted to see him throw, so he can just make sure that he checks all the boxes.
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Right, he's gonna check some boxes, and I think without throwing, without running, the boxes he may check is, he looks like a NFL quarterback, right? He was listed 6'4 220, 230 pounds.
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Um, and, you know, allegedly he's going to interview really well.
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At least that's what all the reports are.
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And certainly, uh, our old friend Mack Brown at North Carolina, uh, running a pro type of organization there for the Tar Heels.
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Um, I'm curious about Jaden Daniels and Caleb Williams and even J.
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J.
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McCarthy lumped them in.
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And we'll get to, you know, those senior quarterbacks, um, in just a moment here.
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But size certainly last year when it came to Bryce Young became such a talking point.
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And you talk about growth.
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Where, you know, Bryce Young, uh, literally is trying to put on pounds.
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Or Kenny Pickett from the combined all the way to his pro day was able to grow his hands a quarter of an inch.
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Because he doesn't, he doesn't have that magic finger like you do there, Nick Ferguson.
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But, uh, it just, that, that, time out, that just threw me off.
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Because you showed me the finger, I lost my train of thought.
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That's gross, man.
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I just ate.
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That's what, that's what playing football 365 days a year for two years will do to your hands.
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Um, my train of thought was where? Right.
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So, size is something that matters and especially for Caleb Williams.
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Let's focus in on Jaden Daniels.
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I think listed on LSU's, uh, you know, official website.
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We'll get his official measurements at the Combine.
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Dang it, Combine.
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He's going to be, uh, I think the best size and weight comp at around 6'4 And 210 pounds is Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, who, as we mentioned, make sure you check out our Dynasty series.
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We're watching the Apple TV.
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Patriots Dynasty Documentary and recapping those.
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You wouldn't stop calling him a baby giraffe, Nick.
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And I took offense to it.
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A scrawny baby giraffe.
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Um, that's kinda where Jaden Daniels is coming in though.
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And unlike a Lamar Jackson, or even a Jalen Hurts, not the same size weight, those are guys that you don't see getting, um, blown up at least once or twice a game.
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Cause I saw that Florida game.
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He, he had a couple of hits where you just watch him get up and on the one hand you're like, Wow.
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That's an amazing ability, but at the same time, how could he put himself in position to take a hit that severe? Yeah, Anthony Richardson is another comparison.
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This massive guy that, you know, got injured twice in his first four games And I sort of worry, especially at Jaden Daniels size, that if he's not, you know, that Russell Wilson baseball slide Um, you know, he may end up with health concerns of his own if early in his career he's relying on his legs, like Anthony Richardson was.
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Well, listen man, uh, that whole weight thing is overrated.
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Just like you said, uh, you talk about Anthony Richardson.
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He is a solid dude, very tall, very compact muscle wise, but he got injured.
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Right.
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So we know injuries are part of the game, no matter how big or how small the guy is.
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It's going to happen, but I know the idea is if he's a little frail, then he's going to be broken like a twig.
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I'll take you back for the sake of argument.
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Let's go back to the year, uh, I think it was Baker Mayfield was in the draft class, Lamar Jackson and Josh Rosen, right? And it was said that, well, Lamar is a little frail and no one really knew how he was going to be able to sustain the pounding in the league.
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And guess what? Josh Rosen was about three to four pounds heavier than he was.
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But everyone was concerned about Lamar and not Josh Rosen.
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And one of those guys, one of those guys, had his second MVP.
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The other guy, not in the league anymore.
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So we have to be really careful when we put a value on size because that really doesn't matter in the NFL anymore.
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Colin Murray is not a big guy.
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We see him move around and do certain things.
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Baker Mayfield, not a big guy, moving around.
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Russell, you can look now and you can look back in his heyday with the Seattle Seahawks.
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Dispels all those rumors, but there was something you brought up that I think is worth discussing.
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You talked about J.
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J.
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McCarthy.
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Everyone's wondering what is his weight going to be? He could gain weight just to show that he bulked up for this because That's what guys do with the one or two months before the NFL combine is they try to bulk up and guess what? He reminds you Eerily of another Michigan quarterback and Tom Brady.
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Oh, no Explain me that one So I say that to piggyback off your comparison because Tom was a six round draft choice We know the story I played against him Look at what he was able to do.
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Now, I'm not suggesting that McCarthy would be able to do the same thing, but at the same time, you gotta be patient with these guys.
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You have to.
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And size isn't the only thing that you focus on.
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No, I, I, I speak about size with the caveat that I also mentioned the ability to avoid contact.
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You mentioned Baker, you mentioned Lamar Jackson, there was also this guy that went 7th overall, Josh Allen, where if he's the one initiating the contact, he's the one giving out the punishment as opposed to receiving it.
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So I just, for Jaden Daniels sake, um, it's just the ability to, uh, tuck and run, which is crucial for his game.
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But at the same time, if he's going to initiate the contact, does he have to expose himself as much as he has been? is not as important as it is avoiding contact in the first place.
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Um, J.
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J.
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McCarthy's an interesting one.
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Uh, Tom Brady's certainly not the best example.
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I just say because you had, you had more, you just had more Tom Brady starting for two years, whereas J.
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J.
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McCarthy and Jim Harbaugh's offense was able to run the football, and he wasn't asked to throw more than 20, 25 times a game.
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So the types of throws that you want to see at the next level Um, you're sort of projecting for J.
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J.
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McCarthy, uh, but, much like the NBA model, he is younger than those other two quarterbacks he's been grouped with, where you're very high on Bo Nix, maybe not as much for Michael Penix, but I think the best example we have, just to round out this quarterback class, is that those two guys participated in the Senior Bowl, while those presumed top three, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and Drake May, did not.
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And yet, they stayed right where they were based on their performances as a senior bowl.
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Do you feel that for a pair of 23 year old, 5 year college students, that what you see is what you get? That they've not maxed out on potential, but that what they ran in college is kind of what they've been molded into at the next level? I would definitely agree with that, but I would also add this to it.
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Any quarterback who is projected to go in the first round, he's a byproduct of the talent that was around him on a collegiate level.
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He's a byproduct of the play calling, and he is beneficial of being in the same system for so many years where he knows that system in and out.
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And all you have to do if you are a team looking for one of those quarterbacks, all you have to do is say, This is my guy, I'm going to cater my system.
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Similar to what he experienced on the collegiate level to the pro level.
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You only run into a problem where you run out of patience or you don't have patience at all.
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Or you're a team that say, look, we already have a scheme.
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We're going to bring you into our scheme and force you to learn our scheme.
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To me, that's the most idiotic philosophy that you can have.
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And how many times have you seen it in the pros? The idea is, you're drafting a guy, you're sold on him, you change everything you need to change to fit that particular guy if you're drafting him in the first round.
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It's that simple.
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I mean, you've got the guy at a minimum five years, maybe six with a franchise tag.
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Uh, you have to, one, give him the time, but also Taylor make everything so that you're in the best position to allow that player to succeed.
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It'll be exciting to see how that combined shakes out.
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Especially with the top of that quarterback class.
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I'm thrilled that we at least get to touch on those six quarterbacks.
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I'm sure that you know as of late February early March, let's put five, let's put six of them in the first round.
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Your Denver Broncos of course gonna trade whatever it takes to move up and get one of those guys.
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I just You know, we can, we can get into specific team needs over the month of March and early April with the draft, uh, more than a month away.
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Uh, but I, I guess if we transition to talking about a potential number one pick going to a former number one overall pick, Cam Newton.
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Uh, we spotted over the weekend in a seven on seven, uh, youth football tournament.
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Uh, Involved in a, what would you call it, I wouldn't call it a brawl, it was pretty one sided Nick, Cam just took care of business I guess, disagreements with some of the youth coaches, which again, we're here for kids, and yet this fight kind of breaks out, but were you kind of reminded of, not to make too much light of this, but Nick, were you kind of reminded of Cam Newton on the football field as he's one by one kind of taking care of each of these guys that felt More than words was what Cam needed that, that afternoon.
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Yeah man, I'll tell you this.
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Uh, I, I saw Cam down in Vegas.
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And uh, I mean at 6'6 about 240, 250.
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That's a very large man.
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And what I liken it to is a video I saw a couple of weeks ago on TikTok.
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Where there were about six lioness trying to take down a male giraffe.
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And I'll say, say this.
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The lioness did not eat that night because that giraffe kicked their butt.
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That's exactly what it reminded me of.
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But listen, man.
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It's the top hat, isn't it? Yes.
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And once again, his hat did not move, but the optics of it all.
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That was the bad part of it because I listened to the two guys who were in the altercation, the two main guys, get on the podcast and say, They know Cam, and Cam was talking trash.
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I mean, look, the colder the street is, that's what happens.
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Whether you play a pick up basketball game, or even when we were in high school and you were playing table football, there was a lot of trash talk.
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And if you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.
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That's right.
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But the bigger thing is, what was the message that you sent to the youth football players who were standing by watching? You are a coach of young men.
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You're trying to build young men.
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And this is what you said.
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This is how you handle a situation.
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Because someone is trash talking, you decided to embark in fisticuffs.
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This is a bad look all around, if you ask me.
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Well, that was wild, Nick.
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Your comparison to images out in the wild was nothing short of what I expected from you.
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He's Nick Ferguson.
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That was, uh, one quick Nick before we split.
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We have just a moment of time here.
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Uh, Nick, before we split, your favorite quarterback combined performance that you just saw? What he looked like and whether it turned out well or not, who won the Underwear Olympics in your mind in recent years? You know, Anthony Richardson, uh, he was one of those guys who coming out of Florida had a lot of questions.
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Level of accuracy.
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Can you be a leader in the league? How he was going to translate his ability to the NFL and being a young quarterback.
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Did he have the football IQ and watching his pro day, but more importantly, watching him at the combine, the way the ball jumped off his hands, ball placement, just the kind of leadership that he had because the optics part is really important.
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You're going to have multiple top quarterbacks.
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At the combine and you want to see which guy elevates his level of play or even his leadership standing with what is perceived to be other alpha males, but Anthony Richardson was definitely able to do that.
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And that propelled him to being a first round pick for the Colts fourth overall.
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So shout out Bryce Young, his people, the University of Alabama, whatever it took that entire weekend in Indianapolis a year ago, we never saw a side by side of Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson.
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Just as polarizing as that would look.
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Uh, at NickFerguson underscore twenty five, he'll be grinding tape of more than just the quarterback class, although we'll get to it.
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Your Denver Broncos certainly may be looking at it, as are my New England Patriots.
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Which reminds me, you can always check us out later this week.
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We'll have the exclusive Ride the Wave Media Dynasty re watch, where Nick Ferguson and I break down Two episodes at a time of Apple TV's Dynasty, The Rise and Fall of the New England Patriots.
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And we're exclusively on YouTube.
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Apple, wherever you can find your podcast, you can download us anytime that you'd like.
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Uh, I'm looking forward to the draft.
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Nick Ferguson, you're looking forward to the draft.