March 27, 2024
Football, Weather, and NFL Rule Changes with Those Guys
Football, Weather, and NFL Rule Changes with Those Guys
Hosts Alex Hardy and Nick Ferguson humorously discuss changes in the weather before diving into a variety of football topics, including a recap of the NFL owners meetings in Orlando and analysis on recent rule changes. They cover topics such as potential NFL player trades, the significance of head coaches' photo at the meetings, Tom Brady's possible minority ownership of the Raiders, and modifications to kickoff and tackle rules aimed at increasing player safety and game scoring. Additionally, they share insights into potential impacts of the new kickoff rules and express skepticism about the league's motives behind these changes. The episode also touches on broader themes of player empowerment and the business aspect of the NFL.
#NFLUpdates #FootballPodcast #SportsTalk #GameDay #ListenNow #TouchdownTuesday #SportsFans #PodcastLife #KickoffStrategies #WinningPlays
00:00 Welcome Back to Those Guys!
00:21 Weather Chat: From Denver to the East Coast
01:56 NFL Owners Meetings: Headlines and Rule Changes
02:18 The Iconic NFL Coaches Photo: Analysis and Takeaways
06:21 Expanding the NFL Schedule: More Football Days Ahead
09:17 Rule Changes and the NFL's Direction
11:07 Tom Brady's Potential Ownership and Broadcasting Conflict
14:02 Kickoff and Tackle Rule Changes: Impact and Opinions
27:07 The Power of Player Choices in the Draft
30:16 Wrapping Up and Final Thoughts
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We're back.
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We are those guys.
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We hope to be your guys.
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I'm Alex Hardy, joined as always by the loquacious Nick Ferguson.
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Many big words on a big word taping today.
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Nick Ferguson, what's going on? Man, nothing but uh, the weather.
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I mean, it keeps changing like a donut box in a windstorm here in Denver.
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You know, I feel like we should just pivot to be a weather podcast.
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I made a great joke, was talking with Some, some, uh, colleagues on the east coast who are digging out from snow and sleet and rain.
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Um, I w I was pretty frigid this morning, Nick.
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It didn't even hit 60 degrees until like, I don't know, 9am, but.
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58.
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That's too cold.
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I had to turn the, uh, the heat on.
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Well, 58 here in Denver, man, that, that's a, you know, guns out, uh, funds out type of, uh, weather for us.
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Everyone has on shorts and things like that.
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You're talking about 58 degrees.
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And it's interesting that you talk about the weather that you do, because when you, when you think about it.
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Chris Farley, may he rest in peace, said it years ago on the SNL skit.
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You know, when we look at the weather and how it's changed globally, El Nino is Spanish for the Nino.
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The Nino.
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Yes.
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Oh my god.
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Just, um, you know, before we actually get to talking about football, because that's what we do here on Those Guys, I You know, I think there's just sort of a machismo or, um, I don't know how else to put it, Nick.
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I used to take pride in being that dude wearing shorts in that cold weather.
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Uh, but now that I am a west coaster here in Southern California, if it dips below 70, I'm probably in long sleeves and a hat, to be honest with you.
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Oh man, you've gone soft.
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Very much so.
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However, I would fit in perfectly in Orlando, Florida, which is where the NFL owners meetings have been taking place all week.
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So I figured for this week, we'd grab a couple of headlines and break down kind of what's going on behind the scenes in Orlando and Nick, your perspective on a few rule changes that we'll get to.
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But most importantly, It's not the NFL owners meetings until we get the head coaches photo.
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The first day that everybody arrives, you've got everybody lined up two, uh, three, two rows, um, all coaches present with the exception of Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Nick Sirianni, and Matt Eberfluss.
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Who were not present.
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Uh, your, your takeaways, Nick, uh, other than Andy Reid's excellent Hawaiian shirt choice.
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Well, let me start there first.
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Uh, every single year, uh, no, no jokes aside.
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I watched for the photo to see exactly what type of shirt Andy Reid's going to have.
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Yeah.
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Let's look at big red.
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Yeah.
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It's going to be some kind of Hawaiian inspired shirt and say what you want.
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Some people love it.
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Some people hate it.
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Yeah.
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But I absolutely love it.
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This is the way that Andy Reid can actually display his personality throughout his wardrobe.
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And when you look at that photo this year, it looks really different.
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It is.
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Oh, so yeah.
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Well, it's changing far as what we've come to know coaches to be, because we've always seen like, like politicians, those lifers and it's changed.
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You have a bunch of young coaches.
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In the mix now, like when you had, you know, Dave Canelas who used to be a coach with Pete Carroll in Seattle, there's no Pete Carroll in the photo, but Dave is now the new head coach for the Carolina Panthers.
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So these coaches are getting younger and younger, but there was something else that stuck out to me.
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Two other things and I'll get to them right now.
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When you look at the number of coaches in this photo that are tied to Mike Shanahan, it is unreal.
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It's like majority of those coaches.
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Where guys, they come from his, his tree, his branches, roots, whatever you want to call it.
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And it's, it's fascinating.
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The other thing is the number of coaches.
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that you listed that were not present.
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Now you ask yourself, well, why wasn't the present? And every single year when we sit down at the beginning of training camp, when a new coach comes in, or you still had the previous coach you had the year before, they always tell you about showing up and being on time.
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So I'm wondering, why was it that the coaches who were missing were missing? What were the excuses that they had as to not To appear in the photo, Andy Reed was there with his fantastic shirts.
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Yes.
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You know, you can sort of see the guys in their collars, no one going full commit, but maybe inching closer towards Andy Reed's territory.
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I've got three takeaways and then we'll move on to some of the actual news coming out.
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Uh, first and foremost.
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Uh, Jim Harbaugh.
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Not wearing khakis.
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What's that all about? Maybe they're jeans or blue colored pants, but I gotta see the traditional khakis.
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He did tell us at the coach's breakfast that, true to his word, he has been living out of the RV since relocating to Southern California.
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Really? I'll keep my eyes peeled on PCH to see if he's just Camping out, playing guitar by the beach, uh, before the season gets underway.
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Takeaway number two, with your point about the Shanahan coaching tree, I thought it was fun seeing Kyle Shanahan's coaching tree.
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We're all clustered together.
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Got Kyle with Matt LaFleur sitting below him, Sean McVay's next to McFleur.
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And he's standing next to Kevin O'Connell, who's, you know, a former NFL quarterback.
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He's, he's a big man.
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Um, and my third takeaway.
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Would be Brian Dayball on the upper row all the way to the right.
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I'm looking at the photo now.
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Uh, sorry that I'm not sharing it for those of you watching on YouTube, but he just looks so short standing next to Robert Sala and Dan Quinn.
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I mean, Gerard Mayo's over in that corner of the photo to, um, take away three and a half, cause I said, I'd only give you three.
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This was not jarring for me.
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Because Bill Belichick never makes these coaching photos anyway.
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So I'm used to not seeing him there after you mentioned Carol.
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Uh, what's one of the exciting things to come out of the NFL owners meetings in Orlando, Nick Ferguson.
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We've got more days that have football on them.
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They ironed out the Christmas day schedule.
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And correct me if I'm wrong, we add this in with an expanded college football playoff.
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Let me rattle off the week between Christmas and New Year's for you.
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Nick, are you ready? I'm ready.
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December 25th, you've got an NFL game.
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December 26th, you've got an NFL game.
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December 28th, you've got an NFL game.
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December 30th, You've got an NFL game.
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Uh, New Year's Eve, December 31st, begins the college football quarterfinals for the playoffs.
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And that continues into January 1st, the new year, obviously the Rose Bowl, um, having significance once again.
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So, you're talking in a span when most people are off, if you're fortunate.
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Um, if you're grinders like we are, we'll be working most of those days because, hey, look now, we're talking seven days worth of NFL and college football games is there.
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Listen, we're coming off of March Madness opening weekend and the NCAA tournament, the Thursday and Friday, I used to call my two favorite sports days of the year.
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The NFL and college football may be rivaling that with the schedule they've unfurled this week.
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See, I don't think that's going to ever happen in that particular way because when you look at the schedule the way that you laid it out, yes, you have a slate of consecutive NFL games, but they're not playing on that day when we're talking about, you know, the competing for the college football bowl championships.
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That's never going to happen.
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I mean, there are some laws.
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That have been put in place to ensure that the league, the NFL that is, never impedes on college football and the NFL and their owners, they want to make sure that all the rights and feuds of their labor that they've enjoyed for so many years due to the negotiation of, uh, I think Pete Rozelle years ago.
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That, uh, they're not going to screw that up.
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They're going to take advantage of every single day.
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They have to put NFL games on television.
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And as you were going through that, the first thing that, that popped in my head was like on the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me more freaking football from the NFL.
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So for those who are going to be sitting home during the holidays, whether you, you know, your team is playing or not.
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Even though we may not want to watch, we're going to watch anyway.
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It is freaking football.
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And over the years, I've heard so many fans protest.
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They disagree with the league.
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They disagree with the players.
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They don't like the refereeing.
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I'm not watching, but guess what they do? They watch anyway.
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So you like me, we'll grinders, but we'll be watching all the same.
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Some more notes from around the National Football League.
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We're going to get to the big rule changes.
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I'm kind of pushing them back because I know you have a lot of thoughts.
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Um, but one thing I think every fan could agree on was the NFL owners approving the trade deadline move back now that Tuesday after week nine, I think getting an additional week, seeing where teams are, you know, week, week eight used to be the mid point of the season.
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It no longer is.
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There's going to be more games, I'm assuming, because the NFL is in the business of making money.
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One week later, for the trade deadline, I think is a huge win across the NFL, Nick.
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Well, for me, it may seem like a huge win, but let's think about what we're talking about, unlike other sports, like hockey and, and NBA.
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I mean, in the NFL, we don't see that many teams trading a lot of players.
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And I know that.
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Do we think this kind of motivates that a little bit? We saw a handful of trades this past year, like Kevin Byard, but he was only a rental.
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Well, no, I mean, I don't see this being a big issue because they're not going to be a lot of teams moving in position.
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And I know it sounds like yes.
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I mean, yes, our team, we're gonna be, we're gonna find ourselves in a position where we're pushing for a playoffs and the possibility of, of going to a Super Bowl and we're one or two players away, usually based on contracts that that guys have.
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You don't, you're not gonna have that much time to kind of go through the minutiae of those contracts.
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Right.
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And try to figure like out what those blockbuster deals are going to be like to make moves.
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So you may have one or two teams.
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I say three.
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at the most that maybe look that might look to make moves during that time, but it's not going to be something in my opinion that is going to change the landscape of what playoffs or what the season is going to look like come week nine.
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So, I'm picking pieces from Roger Goodell's State of the Union press conference that took place, uh, Tuesday from the owners meetings, and among them, I'm just going to hit on these quickly, uh, he addressed that the Raiders for Tom Brady to become a minority owner has not been pushed through yet, that they're still going through the thorough process, uh, knowing that it would invalidate him from being eligible to play again.
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Uh, the 46 year old.
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Uh, and, and certainly we know a lot about Tom based on the latest dynasty documentary.
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Uh, which we are doing a podcast on Nick, which you can certainly find on the, those guys podcast feed right here on Ride the Wave Media.
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Uh, Tom Brady and the Raiders, not done just yet.
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Well, for me, I don't see this as being a big problem.
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I know some see it as a problem because Tom Brady is a former player.
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He's now going to be calling plays for what is it? CBS for Fox.
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So some feel as though it could be a conflict of interest if he's calling a Raiders game and he's part owner of that team.
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And I was just like, I really don't care.
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It's not really going to change the outcome or alter the outcome because he's not an official on the team or called official on the field rather and determine an outcome of the game.
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He's in the box, given a play by play, as far as what's going on.
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And for me, we've seen other guys who have strong ties to other organizations, because we see Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, and Troy caused a lot of the Cowboys games, right? It was a staple.
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Yes.
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And that doesn't really change the outcome of the game.
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So I don't think this is a problem.
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It's not like Tom is a current player.
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Seeking to gain ownership while he's playing.
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He is retired.
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He's done with the game.
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And for me, I think it would be great because it will possibly encourage other former players to pool their resources and possibly try to do the same thing.
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Now it would take a near unanimous vote amongst the owners that would grant Tom Brady eligibility to play while being a minority owner with the team.
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So it's not impossible if he wants to come back at some point.
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You know, maybe as an emergency quarterback, depending on how the Raiders address that on Gardner Minshew.
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Stop.
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I'm just saying, maybe we're not done with Dynasty after all.
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You just, you don't know, Nick.
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You just don't know.
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You know what, you know what, see that is that New England love affair that's still within you.
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You saw Tom Brady.
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Run a 40 a couple of weeks ago.
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And he was like, well, maybe one or two seconds faster than he ran it when he originally did it in Indy.
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You're thinking that maybe Tom would make a comeback.
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No, Tom sat on the beach by himself in white sand, and he cried and said his goodbyes.
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So Alex, it's done, it's over, it's a wrap, let it go.
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Okay.
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Well, if you want to call a play over, if you want to wrap them up, if you are tackling them, see what I'm doing here, Nick Ferguson, the big rule change that came first, and we have comment from Roger Goodell, which is why I'm bringing it up here.
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Um, as a fan, I'd refer to it as a hip drop tackle.
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Nick, having played the position, the defense being on the brunt end of another rule change.
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I'm pretty sure you've never called it a hip drop in your entire life, have you? I've never heard that, that term coined until this past season.
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And, and once again, there, there seemed to be a difference between the two tackles.
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So you have a hip drop tackle, and then you have a swivel hip drop tackle.
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Yes.
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And now we're asking the officials, Who don't know where the catch is and also what's contact in the upper extremities.
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They couldn't get those right.
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So we're asking these same guys to put more on their plate to identify these plays while the game is ongoing.
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I look man.
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I don't understand it.
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Everyone that I've spoken to from former players, current players, and guys who have been head coaches in this league, they think it's one of the most, uh, egregious things that the league has done, but here's why they did it.
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Understand the league.
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Now, they're always reactionary, but they're never proactive.
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The scoring has gone down over the past couple of years.
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And what way can we increase scoring is taking and putting the handcuffs on defensive players.
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And that's exactly what they just did.
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So I'm just reminded, look, I'm old enough to remember 2020.
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Um, the, the NFL had instituted replay review for pass interference.
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Right.
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And it was such a mess where you're bringing up a subjective call where the officials either on the field, but more likely in, in New Jersey are making the choice or in New York are making the decision on a call that could be seen from different camera angles, from different perspectives and perceptions that only lasted a year.
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They implemented it in 2020.
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We're here.
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We're going to fix pass interference for, for all, for all times.
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And it, it survived one year and they don't.
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I'm wondering how this is going to be different than what we saw again, just four years ago.
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Well, well, Alex, the reason that the past interference review didn't survive, you go think about what took place.
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Before that was implemented.
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The Minnesota Vikings were playing against Sean Paytons and Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints.
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And there was a push off by Kyle Rudolph and the rule states that you cannot extend your arms for an OPI.
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And it was clear that he did that.
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But the officials after review said that, no, it wasn't Pat OPI because both guys were jockeying for a position out of protest.
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The league said, you know what, we're going to solve this issue.
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That that's when that rule was put in place.
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You get a chance to review it, but if you reviewed it and you lost, obviously you lost, you know, a challenge flag and you lost the time out.
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So coaches after trial and error and a couple of games, they said, you know what, we're not even going to challenge it because we're not even going to get the call.
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So the league said, well, you guys are not really challenging it and it wasn't as successful.
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So we're just going to do away with it in its entirety.
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So it was just.
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Something they wanted to throw against the wall to see if it stuck just to quiet the stomach rumblings of the criticism, but it was never their intent to use instant replay to change the outcome of some of those OPI calls.
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So Roger Goodell was citing the reasoning for this style of tackle that his quote was, it's a play that has 20 times the injury factor.
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So this is Preventative and the NFL doing every part that they allegedly can to prevent injury and to add more points on the scoreboard.
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The funny thing enough though, was that in the official rule change, the owners didn't use the Logan Wilson tackle on Mark Andrews as the poster child.
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They did not include the play.
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That I think in primetime drew the ire of, uh, you know, certainly the, the, the Baltimore Ravens, um, for that type of hit.
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And really that's probably the first time that I had heard hip drop was when Mark Andrews, a prominent player on a great team that went to the AFC championship game was, was, you know, we thought at the time the season was cut short.
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Um, he ultimately returned for the playoffs, but it's funny that the play that gets this prominently featured is not something that is justified, uh, for the new rule change.
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Again, Roger Goodell throwing out 20 times more likely, I just, I don't know.
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It's hard, it's hard to follow.
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Um, but in the, in the name of Injury prevention, Nick.
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The other big rule change that we've got from Orlando were the kickoff rule changes, right? Um, last, I believe last year, 77 were touchbacks, which If it's a dangerous play, uh, the kick return, they essentially removed it from the game, but now, modeling what the XFL was able to do, uh, for the last year, they've now created a hybrid kickoff that gives you different results based on where that football lands, and the most visually stunning thing is no movement until the ball is received by the returner.
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Rob, so I've spoken to several coaches I know around the league who happen to coach this side of the ball, coach this side of the ball that I know very well, and there's a couple of things to look at.
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Once again, the league is looking for ways to inject more energy back into the game.
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And for me, I've always felt that this, I mean, most games start with a kickoff, right? Where there's the beginning of the game and coming out of the half, and it's really exciting because it flips the field, but it also catches your opponent slipping at some time, because keep this in perspective.
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I mean, I played against a guy by the name of Devin Heston, who just went into Hall of Fame.
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I know you heard of him.
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He was a pain in my ass.
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And as though he was a pain in the ass for so many people in the league, because his change of direction, his ability to set plays up and set up blocks.
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So, it's going to be great for the return team.
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In all actuality, it doesn't really reduce the contact within itself because even though we're looking at guys running in a short range of distance, think about what we saw in Indy, and we see it every single year.
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You want guys bigger, stronger, faster.
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What's your, your, your 10, uh, 10 yard split? What's your 20 yard split? So still, you're still going to have guys running downfield with a massive amount of speed and body weight running into one another.
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Now, For the returner, it's going to be great because he's going to be able to see the blocks as they're starting to unfold and then one cut and get vertical, but it still doesn't change the level of contact based on the rate of speed that one generates coming downfield.
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It just doesn't.
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Yeah, I'm kind of surprised.
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Um, you know, that they take this model that had been, that had been practiced and tested by the XFL.
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Cause typically we don't see the NFL kind of follow in line with what other leagues organizations do.
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Um, and then the other point of it too, as a fan is, uh, you know, now we have to designate when it is time to kick an onside kick, which granted, I think they only had three successfully recovered last year anyway.
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So they're getting rid of the onside kick play essentially.
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While trying to get the kickoffs back into rotation, which on its surface level, you know, it, it's one third of football, right? You have offense, you have defense, you have special teams and to remove special teams impacts coaches, certainly players that this, their opportunity.
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Um, you know, maybe you can help me with a more contemporary reference, but.
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Uh, TD, uh, Terrell Davis has to thank his special team's play that, you know, your former coach, Mike Shanahan, said, let's get him in on the offense.
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So, it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but again, the swinging of the pendulum with one tackle removed from the game, you know, a 15 yard penalty.
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A fine possible suspensions, you know, and trading that with a kickoff that they're trying to bring back that they ultimately removed because they thought it was too dangerous of a play.
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So there's, you know, a lot to kind of digest and, With the, with the NFL, they've perfected the craft, Nick, right? You start the league year, free agency is red hot.
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Now with these owners meetings, you get rule changes and now we're just weeks away from the NFL draft.
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So it is truly a calendar that thank you to Bill Belichick.
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We can say no days off.
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Well, no days off, but it's something that you said that is real unique because when you look at these rule changes, there's, they're always under the guise of we're doing what's best to protect the players, player safety.
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But meanwhile, we're watching preseason reduce for.
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Favor of more regular season games.
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And I think it was Rich McCabe when he was talking about this whole situation about the penalties and the players are going to be fine.
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So they're hoping the penalties and the fines are going to discourage guys from making what they call a hip drop tackle.
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But the league, instead of addressing the real issue here at hand, they're passing the expenses on to the players.
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So they're going to keep.
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Kind of finding players and the players have to pay the cost for the league not doing what it needs to do.
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And the big, the big elephant in the room that we are ignoring here is if you're really concerned about player safety.
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Don't change the kickoff rules.
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Don't even talk about hip drop tackle.
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We already know what we know, right? So we already heard that we've seen or read the book League of Denial.
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All you have to do is make sure there is enough money available for players when they leave the game to handle the issues that they're dealing with.
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That's how you resolve all of this, Alex.
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This doesn't change the game.
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The fact that this is a physical game, it does, it doesn't change it at all.
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Can I tell you something? Absolutely.
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Preparations of the kick rule, the kickoff rule are already in place.
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Uh, I'm reading that Cordell Patterson just signed a two year, 6 million contract with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
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Returns are back.
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Nick Kick returners.
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Are, we're back.
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What? Okay, so think about what you just said.
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Reuniting with Arthur Smith when they're in Atlanta together.
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Okay.
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Think about what you're saying.
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Cordell Patterson, uh, has a very unique skillset as a receiver, as a running back, as a returner.
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He, he's like, he's a Swift Swiss Army knife in the NFL.
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He's now joining.
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He's slash Yeah.
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Yeah.
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He's a Steeler now.
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He can be slash right.
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So, okay.
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He, he slash 2.0.
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Think about how that will change their offense with Russell or Justin Fields, either guy as a quarterback in the defense that they have.
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And we haven't really dove into it, but because you mentioned it, I have to.
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That changes a little in my mind of what we can see in the AFC North, because now you're adding another dynamic player to the mix who is an impact player and who's capable of explosive plays.
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He's simply put, if you're going to put Devin Hester in the Hall of Fame, Cordell Patterson should be right there.
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He's the greatest kick returner in NFL history.
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No, I don't think Cordell Patterson is the best kickoff guy because you're going to have guys like Josh Cribs say, Hey, what about me? And I can tell you, I played against Josh Cribs and he was a doggone returns.
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I'm just saying the statistics bear out for Cordell Patterson.
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He had more kick returns.
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Uh, in, in just 20 more returns, he had, let's see, he averaged five more yards per return than Devin Hester.
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He's got nearly twice the number of touchdowns than Devin Hester.
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And as for your guy, Josh Cribs, playing both sides of the ball, boy, he's hard to keep up with because he's got the passing stats too.
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Uh, uh, let's see.
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Woo, look at that.
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Cordero has nine touchdown returns, Josh Cribs has eight, but obviously Cribs just has the volume.
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Although, I'll have to see if this holds up.
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29 yards per return is better than Hester and Cribs.
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So, shout out Cordero Patterson.
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Excited to see him in black and gold.
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Uh, he's Nick Ferguson, I'm Alex Hardy.
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We always wrap things up on those guys with a little Nick.
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Before we split and, and Nick Ferguson, I wanted to ask you about, I want to ask you about Deon Sanders.
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I said, I wasn't going to do it, but I, I, I think, I think I really like your take on this.
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Deon was talking about Shadur, his son, and maybe the amount of power.
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A quarterback in the modern era does.
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So Nick, before we split, Shadur Sanders, potentially under the advice from his father, pulling an Eli Manning, certain teams he would not play for.
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Is this legit? Is it good advice we have, Nick? It is great advice.
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We've seen two quarterbacks do this in the past.
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We saw John Elway do it in the eighties when the Colts drafted him and he said, Nope, I'm I'm going to join baseball in New York.
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I mean, New York Yankees.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And, uh, also we seen, uh, Eli do it too.
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When Archie Manning was like, yeah, you know what, we don't like the instability out there with the San Diego Chargers, the then San Diego Chargers.
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So we don't want.
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Our son to go to that particular team.
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So why is it that Dion can't really call his own shot? Because I've said this before, it is not when you go, it's where you go.
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Because I've seen so many quarterbacks and players who play other position, go to wrong teams, who draft them based out of need.
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But the team is not really patient with them to really develop and put the adequate weapons around.
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All you have to do is look at the situation with Justin Fields, whatever you think about him as a, as a player.
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So I like this idea, but there's only one or two positions that you can actually do this and they're all on the opposite side of the ball.
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I mean, quarterback, you can do that.
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If you are considered to be two of the top quarterbacks or number one, and we're watching that take place with Caleb Williams, but also think about with Marvin Harrison, Jr.
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I mean, he hasn't worked out the last time he worked out.
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He was in Ohio state uniform, catching touchdowns.
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That was the last time.
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Players are now having more power than they had before.
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And you can be foolish.
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As a team to say, well, I'm putting my foot down.
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He doesn't want to work out.
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He doesn't want to be here.
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We don't want him.
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Okay.
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There's 31 other teams.
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And you don't want to be the guy that missed out and have your fan base going, man, we could have had CJ Straub, but we were talking about his S2 school.
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He's Nick Ferguson.
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I'm Alex Hardy.
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We are those guys.
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We hope to be your guys.
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Make sure to subscribe, uh, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts or watch us on YouTube.
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Get a look at my Red Sox hat and kind of ignore Nick when he's talking about John Elway and his New York Yankees hat.
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Uh, you can also find us recapping Dynasty, the Patriots.
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Uh, Documentary, which you can find on Apple TV.
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Um, The Rise of Tom Brady.
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Throwing cutdowns over Nick Ferguson.
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And as the franchise comes crumbling down.
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Great comments from, uh, Robert Kraft at the owners meetings.
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I didn't include them here, but you'll hear them exclusively.
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Uh, with the, those guys dynasty recap before we head out, Nick Ferguson, what do you have to say to the people? Make sure you wear wool socks when you go outside in the cold.
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I don't, I don't know what he's talking about.
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So in California, it looks great.
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We're back.
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We are those guys.
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We hope to be your guys.
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I'm Alex Hardy, joined as always by the loquacious Nick Ferguson.
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Many big words on a big word taping today.
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Nick Ferguson, what's going on? Man, nothing but uh, the weather.
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I mean, it keeps changing like a donut box in a windstorm here in Denver.
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You know, I feel like we should just pivot to be a weather podcast.
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I made a great joke, was talking with Some, some, uh, colleagues on the east coast who are digging out from snow and sleet and rain.
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Um, I w I was pretty frigid this morning, Nick.
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It didn't even hit 60 degrees until like, I don't know, 9am, but.
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58.
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That's too cold.
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I had to turn the, uh, the heat on.
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Well, 58 here in Denver, man, that, that's a, you know, guns out, uh, funds out type of, uh, weather for us.
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Everyone has on shorts and things like that.
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You're talking about 58 degrees.
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And it's interesting that you talk about the weather that you do, because when you, when you think about it.
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Chris Farley, may he rest in peace, said it years ago on the SNL skit.
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You know, when we look at the weather and how it's changed globally, El Nino is Spanish for the Nino.
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The Nino.
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Yes.
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Oh my god.
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Just, um, you know, before we actually get to talking about football, because that's what we do here on Those Guys, I You know, I think there's just sort of a machismo or, um, I don't know how else to put it, Nick.
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I used to take pride in being that dude wearing shorts in that cold weather.
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Uh, but now that I am a west coaster here in Southern California, if it dips below 70, I'm probably in long sleeves and a hat, to be honest with you.
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Oh man, you've gone soft.
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Very much so.
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However, I would fit in perfectly in Orlando, Florida, which is where the NFL owners meetings have been taking place all week.
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So I figured for this week, we'd grab a couple of headlines and break down kind of what's going on behind the scenes in Orlando and Nick, your perspective on a few rule changes that we'll get to.
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But most importantly, It's not the NFL owners meetings until we get the head coaches photo.
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The first day that everybody arrives, you've got everybody lined up two, uh, three, two rows, um, all coaches present with the exception of Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Nick Sirianni, and Matt Eberfluss.
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Who were not present.
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Uh, your, your takeaways, Nick, uh, other than Andy Reid's excellent Hawaiian shirt choice.
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Well, let me start there first.
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Uh, every single year, uh, no, no jokes aside.
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I watched for the photo to see exactly what type of shirt Andy Reid's going to have.
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Yeah.
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Let's look at big red.
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Yeah.
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It's going to be some kind of Hawaiian inspired shirt and say what you want.
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Some people love it.
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Some people hate it.
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Yeah.
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But I absolutely love it.
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This is the way that Andy Reid can actually display his personality throughout his wardrobe.
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And when you look at that photo this year, it looks really different.
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It is.
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Oh, so yeah.
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Well, it's changing far as what we've come to know coaches to be, because we've always seen like, like politicians, those lifers and it's changed.
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You have a bunch of young coaches.
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In the mix now, like when you had, you know, Dave Canelas who used to be a coach with Pete Carroll in Seattle, there's no Pete Carroll in the photo, but Dave is now the new head coach for the Carolina Panthers.
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So these coaches are getting younger and younger, but there was something else that stuck out to me.
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Two other things and I'll get to them right now.
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When you look at the number of coaches in this photo that are tied to Mike Shanahan, it is unreal.
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It's like majority of those coaches.
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Where guys, they come from his, his tree, his branches, roots, whatever you want to call it.
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And it's, it's fascinating.
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The other thing is the number of coaches.
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that you listed that were not present.
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Now you ask yourself, well, why wasn't the present? And every single year when we sit down at the beginning of training camp, when a new coach comes in, or you still had the previous coach you had the year before, they always tell you about showing up and being on time.
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So I'm wondering, why was it that the coaches who were missing were missing? What were the excuses that they had as to not To appear in the photo, Andy Reed was there with his fantastic shirts.
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Yes.
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You know, you can sort of see the guys in their collars, no one going full commit, but maybe inching closer towards Andy Reed's territory.
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I've got three takeaways and then we'll move on to some of the actual news coming out.
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Uh, first and foremost.
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Uh, Jim Harbaugh.
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Not wearing khakis.
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What's that all about? Maybe they're jeans or blue colored pants, but I gotta see the traditional khakis.
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He did tell us at the coach's breakfast that, true to his word, he has been living out of the RV since relocating to Southern California.
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Really? I'll keep my eyes peeled on PCH to see if he's just Camping out, playing guitar by the beach, uh, before the season gets underway.
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Takeaway number two, with your point about the Shanahan coaching tree, I thought it was fun seeing Kyle Shanahan's coaching tree.
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We're all clustered together.
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Got Kyle with Matt LaFleur sitting below him, Sean McVay's next to McFleur.
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And he's standing next to Kevin O'Connell, who's, you know, a former NFL quarterback.
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He's, he's a big man.
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Um, and my third takeaway.
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Would be Brian Dayball on the upper row all the way to the right.
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I'm looking at the photo now.
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Uh, sorry that I'm not sharing it for those of you watching on YouTube, but he just looks so short standing next to Robert Sala and Dan Quinn.
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I mean, Gerard Mayo's over in that corner of the photo to, um, take away three and a half, cause I said, I'd only give you three.
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This was not jarring for me.
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Because Bill Belichick never makes these coaching photos anyway.
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So I'm used to not seeing him there after you mentioned Carol.
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Uh, what's one of the exciting things to come out of the NFL owners meetings in Orlando, Nick Ferguson.
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We've got more days that have football on them.
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They ironed out the Christmas day schedule.
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And correct me if I'm wrong, we add this in with an expanded college football playoff.
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Let me rattle off the week between Christmas and New Year's for you.
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Nick, are you ready? I'm ready.
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December 25th, you've got an NFL game.
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December 26th, you've got an NFL game.
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December 28th, you've got an NFL game.
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December 30th, You've got an NFL game.
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Uh, New Year's Eve, December 31st, begins the college football quarterfinals for the playoffs.
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And that continues into January 1st, the new year, obviously the Rose Bowl, um, having significance once again.
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So, you're talking in a span when most people are off, if you're fortunate.
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Um, if you're grinders like we are, we'll be working most of those days because, hey, look now, we're talking seven days worth of NFL and college football games is there.
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Listen, we're coming off of March Madness opening weekend and the NCAA tournament, the Thursday and Friday, I used to call my two favorite sports days of the year.
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The NFL and college football may be rivaling that with the schedule they've unfurled this week.
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See, I don't think that's going to ever happen in that particular way because when you look at the schedule the way that you laid it out, yes, you have a slate of consecutive NFL games, but they're not playing on that day when we're talking about, you know, the competing for the college football bowl championships.
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That's never going to happen.
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I mean, there are some laws.
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That have been put in place to ensure that the league, the NFL that is, never impedes on college football and the NFL and their owners, they want to make sure that all the rights and feuds of their labor that they've enjoyed for so many years due to the negotiation of, uh, I think Pete Rozelle years ago.
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That, uh, they're not going to screw that up.
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They're going to take advantage of every single day.
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They have to put NFL games on television.
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And as you were going through that, the first thing that, that popped in my head was like on the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me more freaking football from the NFL.
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So for those who are going to be sitting home during the holidays, whether you, you know, your team is playing or not.
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Even though we may not want to watch, we're going to watch anyway.
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It is freaking football.
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And over the years, I've heard so many fans protest.
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They disagree with the league.
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They disagree with the players.
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They don't like the refereeing.
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I'm not watching, but guess what they do? They watch anyway.
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So you like me, we'll grinders, but we'll be watching all the same.
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Some more notes from around the National Football League.
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We're going to get to the big rule changes.
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I'm kind of pushing them back because I know you have a lot of thoughts.
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Um, but one thing I think every fan could agree on was the NFL owners approving the trade deadline move back now that Tuesday after week nine, I think getting an additional week, seeing where teams are, you know, week, week eight used to be the mid point of the season.
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It no longer is.
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There's going to be more games, I'm assuming, because the NFL is in the business of making money.
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One week later, for the trade deadline, I think is a huge win across the NFL, Nick.
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Well, for me, it may seem like a huge win, but let's think about what we're talking about, unlike other sports, like hockey and, and NBA.
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I mean, in the NFL, we don't see that many teams trading a lot of players.
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And I know that.
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Do we think this kind of motivates that a little bit? We saw a handful of trades this past year, like Kevin Byard, but he was only a rental.
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Well, no, I mean, I don't see this being a big issue because they're not going to be a lot of teams moving in position.
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And I know it sounds like yes.
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I mean, yes, our team, we're gonna be, we're gonna find ourselves in a position where we're pushing for a playoffs and the possibility of, of going to a Super Bowl and we're one or two players away, usually based on contracts that that guys have.
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You don't, you're not gonna have that much time to kind of go through the minutiae of those contracts.
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Right.
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And try to figure like out what those blockbuster deals are going to be like to make moves.
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So you may have one or two teams.
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I say three.
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at the most that maybe look that might look to make moves during that time, but it's not going to be something in my opinion that is going to change the landscape of what playoffs or what the season is going to look like come week nine.
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So, I'm picking pieces from Roger Goodell's State of the Union press conference that took place, uh, Tuesday from the owners meetings, and among them, I'm just going to hit on these quickly, uh, he addressed that the Raiders for Tom Brady to become a minority owner has not been pushed through yet, that they're still going through the thorough process, uh, knowing that it would invalidate him from being eligible to play again.
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Uh, the 46 year old.
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Uh, and, and certainly we know a lot about Tom based on the latest dynasty documentary.
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Uh, which we are doing a podcast on Nick, which you can certainly find on the, those guys podcast feed right here on Ride the Wave Media.
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Uh, Tom Brady and the Raiders, not done just yet.
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Well, for me, I don't see this as being a big problem.
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I know some see it as a problem because Tom Brady is a former player.
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He's now going to be calling plays for what is it? CBS for Fox.
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So some feel as though it could be a conflict of interest if he's calling a Raiders game and he's part owner of that team.
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And I was just like, I really don't care.
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It's not really going to change the outcome or alter the outcome because he's not an official on the team or called official on the field rather and determine an outcome of the game.
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He's in the box, given a play by play, as far as what's going on.
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And for me, we've seen other guys who have strong ties to other organizations, because we see Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, and Troy caused a lot of the Cowboys games, right? It was a staple.
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Yes.
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And that doesn't really change the outcome of the game.
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So I don't think this is a problem.
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It's not like Tom is a current player.
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Seeking to gain ownership while he's playing.
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He is retired.
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He's done with the game.
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And for me, I think it would be great because it will possibly encourage other former players to pool their resources and possibly try to do the same thing.
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Now it would take a near unanimous vote amongst the owners that would grant Tom Brady eligibility to play while being a minority owner with the team.
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So it's not impossible if he wants to come back at some point.
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You know, maybe as an emergency quarterback, depending on how the Raiders address that on Gardner Minshew.
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Stop.
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I'm just saying, maybe we're not done with Dynasty after all.
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You just, you don't know, Nick.
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You just don't know.
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You know what, you know what, see that is that New England love affair that's still within you.
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You saw Tom Brady.
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Run a 40 a couple of weeks ago.
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And he was like, well, maybe one or two seconds faster than he ran it when he originally did it in Indy.
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You're thinking that maybe Tom would make a comeback.
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No, Tom sat on the beach by himself in white sand, and he cried and said his goodbyes.
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So Alex, it's done, it's over, it's a wrap, let it go.
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Okay.
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Well, if you want to call a play over, if you want to wrap them up, if you are tackling them, see what I'm doing here, Nick Ferguson, the big rule change that came first, and we have comment from Roger Goodell, which is why I'm bringing it up here.
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Um, as a fan, I'd refer to it as a hip drop tackle.
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Nick, having played the position, the defense being on the brunt end of another rule change.
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I'm pretty sure you've never called it a hip drop in your entire life, have you? I've never heard that, that term coined until this past season.
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And, and once again, there, there seemed to be a difference between the two tackles.
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So you have a hip drop tackle, and then you have a swivel hip drop tackle.
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Yes.
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And now we're asking the officials, Who don't know where the catch is and also what's contact in the upper extremities.
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They couldn't get those right.
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So we're asking these same guys to put more on their plate to identify these plays while the game is ongoing.
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I look man.
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I don't understand it.
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Everyone that I've spoken to from former players, current players, and guys who have been head coaches in this league, they think it's one of the most, uh, egregious things that the league has done, but here's why they did it.
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Understand the league.
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Now, they're always reactionary, but they're never proactive.
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The scoring has gone down over the past couple of years.
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And what way can we increase scoring is taking and putting the handcuffs on defensive players.
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And that's exactly what they just did.
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So I'm just reminded, look, I'm old enough to remember 2020.
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Um, the, the NFL had instituted replay review for pass interference.
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Right.
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And it was such a mess where you're bringing up a subjective call where the officials either on the field, but more likely in, in New Jersey are making the choice or in New York are making the decision on a call that could be seen from different camera angles, from different perspectives and perceptions that only lasted a year.
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They implemented it in 2020.
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We're here.
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We're going to fix pass interference for, for all, for all times.
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And it, it survived one year and they don't.
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I'm wondering how this is going to be different than what we saw again, just four years ago.
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Well, well, Alex, the reason that the past interference review didn't survive, you go think about what took place.
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Before that was implemented.
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The Minnesota Vikings were playing against Sean Paytons and Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints.
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And there was a push off by Kyle Rudolph and the rule states that you cannot extend your arms for an OPI.
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And it was clear that he did that.
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But the officials after review said that, no, it wasn't Pat OPI because both guys were jockeying for a position out of protest.
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The league said, you know what, we're going to solve this issue.
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That that's when that rule was put in place.
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You get a chance to review it, but if you reviewed it and you lost, obviously you lost, you know, a challenge flag and you lost the time out.
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So coaches after trial and error and a couple of games, they said, you know what, we're not even going to challenge it because we're not even going to get the call.
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So the league said, well, you guys are not really challenging it and it wasn't as successful.
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So we're just going to do away with it in its entirety.
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So it was just.
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Something they wanted to throw against the wall to see if it stuck just to quiet the stomach rumblings of the criticism, but it was never their intent to use instant replay to change the outcome of some of those OPI calls.
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So Roger Goodell was citing the reasoning for this style of tackle that his quote was, it's a play that has 20 times the injury factor.
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So this is Preventative and the NFL doing every part that they allegedly can to prevent injury and to add more points on the scoreboard.
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The funny thing enough though, was that in the official rule change, the owners didn't use the Logan Wilson tackle on Mark Andrews as the poster child.
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They did not include the play.
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That I think in primetime drew the ire of, uh, you know, certainly the, the, the Baltimore Ravens, um, for that type of hit.
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And really that's probably the first time that I had heard hip drop was when Mark Andrews, a prominent player on a great team that went to the AFC championship game was, was, you know, we thought at the time the season was cut short.
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Um, he ultimately returned for the playoffs, but it's funny that the play that gets this prominently featured is not something that is justified, uh, for the new rule change.
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Again, Roger Goodell throwing out 20 times more likely, I just, I don't know.
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It's hard, it's hard to follow.
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Um, but in the, in the name of Injury prevention, Nick.
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The other big rule change that we've got from Orlando were the kickoff rule changes, right? Um, last, I believe last year, 77 were touchbacks, which If it's a dangerous play, uh, the kick return, they essentially removed it from the game, but now, modeling what the XFL was able to do, uh, for the last year, they've now created a hybrid kickoff that gives you different results based on where that football lands, and the most visually stunning thing is no movement until the ball is received by the returner.
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Rob, so I've spoken to several coaches I know around the league who happen to coach this side of the ball, coach this side of the ball that I know very well, and there's a couple of things to look at.
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Once again, the league is looking for ways to inject more energy back into the game.
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And for me, I've always felt that this, I mean, most games start with a kickoff, right? Where there's the beginning of the game and coming out of the half, and it's really exciting because it flips the field, but it also catches your opponent slipping at some time, because keep this in perspective.
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I mean, I played against a guy by the name of Devin Heston, who just went into Hall of Fame.
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I know you heard of him.
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He was a pain in my ass.
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And as though he was a pain in the ass for so many people in the league, because his change of direction, his ability to set plays up and set up blocks.
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So, it's going to be great for the return team.
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In all actuality, it doesn't really reduce the contact within itself because even though we're looking at guys running in a short range of distance, think about what we saw in Indy, and we see it every single year.
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You want guys bigger, stronger, faster.
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What's your, your, your 10, uh, 10 yard split? What's your 20 yard split? So still, you're still going to have guys running downfield with a massive amount of speed and body weight running into one another.
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Now, For the returner, it's going to be great because he's going to be able to see the blocks as they're starting to unfold and then one cut and get vertical, but it still doesn't change the level of contact based on the rate of speed that one generates coming downfield.
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It just doesn't.
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Yeah, I'm kind of surprised.
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Um, you know, that they take this model that had been, that had been practiced and tested by the XFL.
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Cause typically we don't see the NFL kind of follow in line with what other leagues organizations do.
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Um, and then the other point of it too, as a fan is, uh, you know, now we have to designate when it is time to kick an onside kick, which granted, I think they only had three successfully recovered last year anyway.
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So they're getting rid of the onside kick play essentially.
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While trying to get the kickoffs back into rotation, which on its surface level, you know, it, it's one third of football, right? You have offense, you have defense, you have special teams and to remove special teams impacts coaches, certainly players that this, their opportunity.
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Um, you know, maybe you can help me with a more contemporary reference, but.
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Uh, TD, uh, Terrell Davis has to thank his special team's play that, you know, your former coach, Mike Shanahan, said, let's get him in on the offense.
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So, it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but again, the swinging of the pendulum with one tackle removed from the game, you know, a 15 yard penalty.
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A fine possible suspensions, you know, and trading that with a kickoff that they're trying to bring back that they ultimately removed because they thought it was too dangerous of a play.
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So there's, you know, a lot to kind of digest and, With the, with the NFL, they've perfected the craft, Nick, right? You start the league year, free agency is red hot.
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Now with these owners meetings, you get rule changes and now we're just weeks away from the NFL draft.
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So it is truly a calendar that thank you to Bill Belichick.
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We can say no days off.
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Well, no days off, but it's something that you said that is real unique because when you look at these rule changes, there's, they're always under the guise of we're doing what's best to protect the players, player safety.
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But meanwhile, we're watching preseason reduce for.
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Favor of more regular season games.
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And I think it was Rich McCabe when he was talking about this whole situation about the penalties and the players are going to be fine.
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So they're hoping the penalties and the fines are going to discourage guys from making what they call a hip drop tackle.
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But the league, instead of addressing the real issue here at hand, they're passing the expenses on to the players.
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So they're going to keep.
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Kind of finding players and the players have to pay the cost for the league not doing what it needs to do.
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And the big, the big elephant in the room that we are ignoring here is if you're really concerned about player safety.
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Don't change the kickoff rules.
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Don't even talk about hip drop tackle.
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We already know what we know, right? So we already heard that we've seen or read the book League of Denial.
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All you have to do is make sure there is enough money available for players when they leave the game to handle the issues that they're dealing with.
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That's how you resolve all of this, Alex.
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This doesn't change the game.
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The fact that this is a physical game, it does, it doesn't change it at all.
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Can I tell you something? Absolutely.
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Preparations of the kick rule, the kickoff rule are already in place.
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Uh, I'm reading that Cordell Patterson just signed a two year, 6 million contract with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
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Returns are back.
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Nick Kick returners.
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Are, we're back.
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What? Okay, so think about what you just said.
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Reuniting with Arthur Smith when they're in Atlanta together.
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Okay.
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Think about what you're saying.
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Cordell Patterson, uh, has a very unique skillset as a receiver, as a running back, as a returner.
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He, he's like, he's a Swift Swiss Army knife in the NFL.
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He's now joining.
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He's slash Yeah.
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Yeah.
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He's a Steeler now.
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He can be slash right.
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So, okay.
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He, he slash 2.0.
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Think about how that will change their offense with Russell or Justin Fields, either guy as a quarterback in the defense that they have.
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And we haven't really dove into it, but because you mentioned it, I have to.
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That changes a little in my mind of what we can see in the AFC North, because now you're adding another dynamic player to the mix who is an impact player and who's capable of explosive plays.
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He's simply put, if you're going to put Devin Hester in the Hall of Fame, Cordell Patterson should be right there.
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He's the greatest kick returner in NFL history.
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No, I don't think Cordell Patterson is the best kickoff guy because you're going to have guys like Josh Cribs say, Hey, what about me? And I can tell you, I played against Josh Cribs and he was a doggone returns.
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I'm just saying the statistics bear out for Cordell Patterson.
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He had more kick returns.
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Uh, in, in just 20 more returns, he had, let's see, he averaged five more yards per return than Devin Hester.
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He's got nearly twice the number of touchdowns than Devin Hester.
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And as for your guy, Josh Cribs, playing both sides of the ball, boy, he's hard to keep up with because he's got the passing stats too.
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Uh, uh, let's see.
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Woo, look at that.
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Cordero has nine touchdown returns, Josh Cribs has eight, but obviously Cribs just has the volume.
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Although, I'll have to see if this holds up.
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29 yards per return is better than Hester and Cribs.
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So, shout out Cordero Patterson.
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Excited to see him in black and gold.
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Uh, he's Nick Ferguson, I'm Alex Hardy.
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We always wrap things up on those guys with a little Nick.
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Before we split and, and Nick Ferguson, I wanted to ask you about, I want to ask you about Deon Sanders.
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I said, I wasn't going to do it, but I, I, I think, I think I really like your take on this.
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Deon was talking about Shadur, his son, and maybe the amount of power.
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A quarterback in the modern era does.
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So Nick, before we split, Shadur Sanders, potentially under the advice from his father, pulling an Eli Manning, certain teams he would not play for.
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Is this legit? Is it good advice we have, Nick? It is great advice.
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We've seen two quarterbacks do this in the past.
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We saw John Elway do it in the eighties when the Colts drafted him and he said, Nope, I'm I'm going to join baseball in New York.
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I mean, New York Yankees.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And, uh, also we seen, uh, Eli do it too.
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When Archie Manning was like, yeah, you know what, we don't like the instability out there with the San Diego Chargers, the then San Diego Chargers.
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So we don't want.
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Our son to go to that particular team.
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So why is it that Dion can't really call his own shot? Because I've said this before, it is not when you go, it's where you go.
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Because I've seen so many quarterbacks and players who play other position, go to wrong teams, who draft them based out of need.
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But the team is not really patient with them to really develop and put the adequate weapons around.
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All you have to do is look at the situation with Justin Fields, whatever you think about him as a, as a player.
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So I like this idea, but there's only one or two positions that you can actually do this and they're all on the opposite side of the ball.
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I mean, quarterback, you can do that.
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If you are considered to be two of the top quarterbacks or number one, and we're watching that take place with Caleb Williams, but also think about with Marvin Harrison, Jr.
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I mean, he hasn't worked out the last time he worked out.
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He was in Ohio state uniform, catching touchdowns.
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That was the last time.
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Players are now having more power than they had before.
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And you can be foolish.
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As a team to say, well, I'm putting my foot down.
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He doesn't want to work out.
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He doesn't want to be here.
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We don't want him.
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Okay.
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There's 31 other teams.
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And you don't want to be the guy that missed out and have your fan base going, man, we could have had CJ Straub, but we were talking about his S2 school.
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He's Nick Ferguson.
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I'm Alex Hardy.
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We are those guys.
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We hope to be your guys.
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Make sure to subscribe, uh, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts or watch us on YouTube.
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Get a look at my Red Sox hat and kind of ignore Nick when he's talking about John Elway and his New York Yankees hat.
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Uh, you can also find us recapping Dynasty, the Patriots.
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Uh, Documentary, which you can find on Apple TV.
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Um, The Rise of Tom Brady.
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Throwing cutdowns over Nick Ferguson.
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And as the franchise comes crumbling down.
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Great comments from, uh, Robert Kraft at the owners meetings.
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I didn't include them here, but you'll hear them exclusively.
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Uh, with the, those guys dynasty recap before we head out, Nick Ferguson, what do you have to say to the people? Make sure you wear wool socks when you go outside in the cold.
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I don't, I don't know what he's talking about.
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So in California, it looks great.