Football Frenzy and Hoops Hype: Those Guys Talk Football and Hoops

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We are Those Guys.

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We hope to be your guys, bringing you the latest from the National Football League.

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Joined, as always, by former NFL safety, 10 years in the league, Nick Ferguson.

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I'm Alex Hardy.

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We're Those Guys.

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What's happening, Nick? Change of scenery today.

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Yeah, just a little change of scenery.

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But hey, listen, I know most people say change is not great.

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I am one to tell you, it is.

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Just embrace it, change your clothes, change your underwear, change your attitude.

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Thanks, Nick.

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That's, that's my main takeaway from it.

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Um, I do want to talk about a particular, let's say thorn in the side of one Miami Dolphins, since you are.

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Uh, in the neck of the woods where maybe if you talk loud enough, um, the, you know, the Mike McDaniel and the guys will overhear you, you know, your, your, your former, uh, coworker, your former coach, um, with the 49ers.

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But I wanted to start with what we've been waiting for.

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It seemed like way too long, at least one game too long.

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Nick Ferguson, you're a Denver Nuggets.

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No longer the NBA champions.

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My Boston Celtics take that mantle, uh, unseating the Dallas Mavericks in five games, any takeaways that you want from a basketball series that we talked about, uh, right here on this podcast.

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And if you saw my preview, um, I hope you forget it.

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Cause I said Celtics in six and they did it in five.

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Well, the one thing I wish I could take away is this whole segment and talking about the Boston Celtics.

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And their victory, but you know, real recognizes real.

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So I will, uh, give validations and flowers where just needed.

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And you know what? The Celtics actually took care of business.

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I actually, to be totally honest, I thought that the Celtics had the capabilities of doing this over the past two years.

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And I know once Porzingis joined the team, most people kind of signed, sealed, delivered that this was going to happen.

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But when you have, you know, Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, I mean, those guys are very extraordinary.

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And what it proves is that in the world of basketball, where we have the big three, all you need is an ensemble cast.

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But the biggest thing you need is a team that's deep rooted, not just in talent, Alex, but also understands defense, defense, defense.

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And that's how the Boston Celtics.

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Kind of got this, this done.

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Well, when you think about some of the moves that they made from a personnel standpoint, I mean, you think about, you know, true holiday, right? Where he was before he even got to the Boston Celtics only being with the Portland Trailblazers, I believe for five days before being shipped out to Boston and how beautiful that must be, not just for the Celtics fans, but Holiday and his family to know now he has.

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His second NBA title.

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But this is, this is great.

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There's a good friend of mine, uh, John Bogano, who is on the coach staff for the Washington football team.

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Obviously, uh, my phone was blowing up and I'm looking at it every time.

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Every time Boston made a bucket, I get a text message and I'm like, it's no one, but coach Bogano trying to rub it in because he knows that I'm a Heat fan.

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But yes, Boston Celtics.

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They're going to hang, what is their 18th banner? That's right.

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Oh man, it seems like I had to wash my mouth.

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I was so saying that, but I got to give them their props.

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They did their thing and they just kind of dismantled the Dallas Mavericks.

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I mean, we can talk about that series as a whole and, um, Kyrie not showing up in Boston, which I'd happily spend hours doing, but I think for, for, for, for myself, Nick, and for everybody listening or watching us on Apple podcasts or on YouTube, you know, I'm trying to make a comparison for an NFL team because this was.

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A roster largely comprised of trades, right, going back to 2013 when Mikhail Prokhorov, then the owner of the Nets, thought that a 37 year old Kevin Garnett and a 36 year old Paul Pierce would push the, uh, Nets into the promised land, instead netting both draft picks that ended up being Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.

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You talked about Porzingis and Drew Holliday, the trades this season.

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You go back to Derek White, who they acquired this past year.

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And, and listen, there's, there's risk, right? Marcus Smart was the heart and soul of that defense and the longest tenured player.

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Um, and they were able to turn that into Porzingis, a couple of first round picks, which they then flipped into the Drew Holliday deal.

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So I just find it interesting that, you know, how do we make this? How do we, how do we center things? How do we expand the conversation and make it about football? Um, being aggressive is one thing.

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Identifying talent and acquiring it before it hits free agency is a big deal.

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So I get that it's only 10 guys or 12 guys total, and maybe, Seven of them play in the postseason compared to a 55 man NFL roster.

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But is the, is the right way to give this team some time? Because we see it in the coaching ranks and we see it, um, you know, with quarterbacks as well.

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This is year six of Tatum and Brown playing together.

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And they went to the finals a couple of years ago, but other than changing some of the pieces out, this was a core that stayed together for a significant amount of time, Stevens and, and, and the Jays.

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So I'm wondering on another level, maybe for the national football league, is this, uh, is this an exercise? In patients paying off, or is this just kind of a one off, uh, with how Boston won their title? Like, are coaches and quarterbacks being run out, like, long before they've given an opportunity to succeed, Nick? Yeah, I mean, this is where things are different opposed to the NFL and the NBA.

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There seems to be a little more patience in the NBA as coaches and players start to hit their stride at the same time.

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Right.

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I mean, I think it works on two levels.

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Not to interrupt, but the Lakers and the Detroit Pistons who just fired Bonnie Williams after paying him then the most money.

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But the money's back! They would disagree with that, but at the same point, it's like, You just watched an incredibly talented team keep it together.

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Now, I know they shipped out Marcus Smart, but you know, how many quarterbacks, uh, you know, are, are given six years before they reach that promised land? Well, once again, this is why, you know, there's a difference between the two sports.

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I truly believe there's a little more patience in the NBA than there is in the NFL.

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I mean, the fans are fans, fans want championships.

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But it goes back to something I think is real simple.

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Understanding the core guys that you have.

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Having the willingness to move pieces around.

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To acquire guys that you feel that will be able to pack some of those voice that you do have.

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And there are two teams I think about when I think about the Boston Celtics.

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How they were built, the patience, bringing in Jalen Brown, bringing in Jason Tatum.

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Even when Kyrie was there with those two guys.

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And also, I mean, that was supposed to be their big three, but the chemistry didn't work.

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And looking at what happened to the Dallas Mavericks, how they got to this point.

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There are two NFL comps that I would say that fits both teams.

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For the Dallas Mavericks, they're the Buffalo Bills.

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When you think about the Boston Celtics, that's the Kansas City Chiefs, right? Because I don't know how Brett Beach continues to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

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I don't know if he's David Blaine, but he always finds a way to manipulate the salary cap to keep that, keep that team competitive.

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And what the Kansas City Chiefs prove is that with the Boston Celtics prove we have a culture.

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Right? We have an established culture and we have key players and marquee positions and we're just going to plug around them like you talk about Marcus Smart.

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Right? I mean, that dude was a heart and soul to their defense.

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Anytime they needed to put him on the opposing team's best offensive player, he showed up.

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And it makes you think, if you're Marcus Smart, how do you feel now, knowing as though Derek White, And Chrisat Porzingis now are hoisting up a championship that should have been yours.

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Yeah, could have been.

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And it's, you know, the defense was there, he was a streaky shooter, so he could win games on a night to night basis.

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But, just sort of, without him being there, it seemed as if Tatum and Brown, now those two are the longest tenured there.

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They're the ones to sort of step up in the leadership department, which You, it was evident, right? The stats were, were down, but you'd say they never played better.

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Uh, I think Jalen was three and a half, four points a game, less than his average last year.

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And Tatum was about two or three points less than his average, but it's team basketball.

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And that's clearly what, what made the difference.

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And for a team like Dallas, I guess it's hard to, um, you know, make an NFL comparison because for a team that.

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Is so close in basketball.

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Well, Kyrie and Luca need a few shooters around them.

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They'll bring back the bigs, but you're talking about one, two players that could be acquired to put them over the top.

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Meanwhile, well, the pass protection was kind of lacking.

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So we'll add some offensive line help.

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We need another weapon.

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Well, we want speed.

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No, we want a physical, uh, you know, guy that protects the barrier.

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Oh, well the defense There's just so many other holes to plug in.

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When you fall short of winning a Super Bowl, winning a championship, that is just hard to match, uh, anywhere else but in the National Football League.

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So, Nick, the You got me thinking for a second, hold on.

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Okay, take it away.

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As you were talking and laying out these details I don't know if this is where you were angling, but it, it, to throw another NFL comp for a team that's in Dallas.

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Well, let's not look at, but another team in Dallas, because this is simply what you're talking about.

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I mean, when you look at the Mavericks, you look at Luka Doncic, you look at Kyrie Irving, and it just seemed as though you were talking about, and I could be wrong, like, like you would make a reference to Dak Prescott and the Dallas Cowboys.

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I wasn't even trying, but I know exactly where you're going.

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Take it away.

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Yes.

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So that seems as though that's where you were going.

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And that's where we can make the comp when we look at this, this NBA finals and look at NFL teams and talk about teams that who are close, who have, uh, the high probability of getting to a championship, but somehow fall off every, every single time that there's a number of the teams.

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But once again, that team right now, that is the blueprint.

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It is Kansas City Chiefs because they've won.

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Back to back Super Bowls, and it reminds me, and I can't believe I'm going to do this, but it just reminds me of when the Patriots dominated pro football for over 20 years.

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And everyone was trying to figure out, well, what's the secret formula? Why is it that they continue to make it work? It's because they put the culture of winning games over everything else.

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And right now that team is a Kansas City Chiefs that everyone's chasing.

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Well, you mentioned Dak Prescott, so that sort of brings me to the big item in the National Football League from last week.

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Um, that we didn't get a chance to talk to because we, uh, had just wrapped and not, not swept under the rug, but it was, I believe on a, on a Friday, nonetheless, um, not quite.

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It was actually a week ago.

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Yeah.

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About a week ago, Trevor Lawrence inked the five year, 275 million contract extension.

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The important number is the 142 million fully guaranteed at signing.

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Um, the richest contract outside of.

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Uh, Deshaun Watson's and Lawrence is now tied with Joe Burrow in terms of, uh, averaging 55 million a year as a quarterback.

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And I mentioned Dak Prescott, you are in Miami to a tongue of ILOA is of discussion.

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When we start to see the quarterback market go up in value, you talk about who's next.

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So I'm going to start with Jacksonville, Nick, and the assessment that a guy who, uh, has a sub 500 record.

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Has one, one playoff appearance, one playoff loss, and he is now the richest quarterback, um, at least until we see the next extension.

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Um, is this a comparison to Jalen Brown? Are we going to keep doing Celtics today? Uh, your thoughts, Nick, on where Jacksonville is kind of positioned.

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Knowing that they have identified their quarterback and have locked him down for the next six years.

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This is great for, uh, Jacksonville.

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Just like Jaylen Brown, who, he was, he was Very heavily criticized by some other analysts who are on a four letter network, you know, but yet I digress.

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The idea is that if you have someone playing well, that you supposed to reward them for the things that they've done on the hardwood on the field.

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And even though I know you list the numbers of Trevor Lawrence, and when we look at Jacksonville, only one playoff appearance.

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And the lack of success of the team, let's be totally honest, really doesn't have too much to do with the lack of production by Trevor Lawrence.

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That dude continues to play.

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Like, coming out of high school, he was rated one of the top quarterbacks coming out of high school.

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And he's lived up to that billing from high school.

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To college and being down there in Jacksonville.

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And we've come to know Jacksonville as being Saxonville, right? When they went to, to the playoffs and they lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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But at the same time, Trevor Lawrence has come in there and given that fan base and Duval Something to cheer for.

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Now, if they can do right by him and put more weapons around him, now we're talking about a different outcome.

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And it's wild because, first of all, look at the conference that he's in, right? And the number of quality quarterbacks.

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And then look at the division That he is in.

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CJ Stroud is in that same division.

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You and CJ Stroud, you're sitting back right now and you are happy that Trevor Lawrence got this deal because you said well If Trevor got this deal and he hasn't won, but one playoff game and look at where I had the Texas in my first year.

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Oh baby, I'm about to go to the bank and you're going to back up the brink struck.

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So I'm happy for Jacksonville for what they've done, but Trevor Lawrence deserve every bit of that money.

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And once again, it's on that organization to put talent around him, to make sure they get to where they need to get to.

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Yeah, it's it, you know, I find it fascinating that the.

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Team is making this kind of investment.

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They spend two home games, uh, across the pond in London to grow the game.

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And Trevor Lawrence, you know, God love him.

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And that 27 point comeback after he had three turnovers in the first half against LA, um, you know, he's now going to be plastered on the billboards.

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He's going to sell jerseys.

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And maybe that's the ultimate goal that Jacksonville wants to achieve is that this contract shouldn't in fact pay for itself, but that comes with winning.

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And you take this guy with the first overall pick and to see Houston in one year kind of leapfrog you in that division, um, certainly does make things a little bit interesting for, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but the results after one year Are what Jacksonville was hoping for since that, let's be honest, since 2021.

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We can't count the year that Urban Meyer was there and ran a complete mess of a program.

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Well, listen, it's funny that you bring up 2021.

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And here's another reason why I feel that Jacksonville did it.

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Like we know quarterbacks are drafted in the first round every single year that dominates the draft conversation.

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But we've seen over the years, several of those top quarterbacks fall off the face of the earth.

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And knowing, if you go back to that 2021 draft, and look at that draft class.

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I mean, everyone's raving about that draft class.

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But, Trevor Lawrence is the only guy out of that draft class, at his position, still on the team that drafted him.

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So, so, Jacksonville's like, yes, we need to do it.

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Also, we're going to double dip, and we're going to get another first round draft quarterback in Mack Jones.

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So for them, they're in good hands.

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Like, like that, that, you know, that, that place.

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I shall not say that name, but all right.

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Yeah.

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Good hands.

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Well, I mean, we all saw the photo shoot in front of that white Porsche.

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So Mack Jones is ready to come in on a moment's notice.

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And let's say play slightly better football than the kind of offense that Matt, Patricia and Joe judge could come up with looking across the landscape.

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Now, right? This, this, the number keeps going up for quarterback and receiver.

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You mentioned Dallas.

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Uh, still haven't paid Dak Prescott or CeeDee Lamb.

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Um, obviously in Southern Florida where you are, there's Tua Tonga Vailoa who's watched Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert in contract extensions from the same draft class.

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So I'll let you decide, Nick, which of these two you want to talk about first, kind of which team is under the most pressure to get the deal done.

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Whether it's for Tua or for Dak.

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I think it's more for Dak and Dallas, because I just don't see it happening at this point.

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Well, I mean, but this is why it's so tough for them, and that's why all eyes will be on them, because It's Michael Parsons.

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It's C.

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D.

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Lamb.

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It's Dak Prescott.

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Where, which direction are you going to have yourself pulled in to get this deal done? Now, the idea is that, look, we've seen a multitude of young wide receivers get paid this offseason.

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And some coaches I've spoken to say, man, they're not doing that.

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They say that they would able, they would be willing to go out and get any, anywhere from average to above average talent, throw at the wide receiver position.

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But the idea is if you don't have that guy under center that moves the needle and he is the gas to the engine, It doesn't make a difference who you have at wide receiver.

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One, if you can't protect the quarterback and you don't have the guy to make proper decisions.

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So for me, I'm not Jerry Jones.

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I wish I had his money, but I, the first thing I would do, Hey, listen, we've already screwed this thing up with Dak Prescott by not inking him to a long deal.

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This is why what Jacksonville did was smart because here's what we know.

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The price for a quality quarterback.

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Is going to go up.

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It is not going to get go down.

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So you might as well get why the getting's good sign that try to negotiate something with cd lamb.

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That's kind of And if you can't, then you say, you know what, man, it was, it was fun while it lasted.

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We did the same to Michael Irvin.

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We did the same thing to Des Bryant.

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You would just be another wide receiver who wore 88 who we did it to, but we need to keep our quarterback and the best defensive player on our team.

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Yep.

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I, I think, you know, I'm shocked that the Micah Parsons deal hasn't been done yet.

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Although then again, I did see how he played in the Packers game.

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Uh, and the wild card.

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But I tend to think that if they were going to re sign Dak, they would have done it now because the cap number would be dropped significantly because he is on the final year of his last deal.

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And with that savings, with the cap, they would be able to maneuver and find ways to get one of CD or Micah done.

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So the fact that they haven't had it, right.

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It takes two to tango.

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They haven't given Dak the type of money.

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To where he's decided, well, it's not worth testing free agency.

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I'll just sign right now.

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So I think if he gets out to an open market and we saw the money that Kirk Cousins had coming off of the Achilles injury, um, you know, DAC may easily surpass what Trevor Lawrence has, has just been paid a week ago.

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Um, and then Miami, of course, you know, they, they loaded up on veterans.

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They traded for Jalen Ramsey.

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They acquired, um, you know, Tyreek Hill, obviously for the new contract extension when he showed up, but how does that kind of shake out knowing that they're getting a lot thinner in the trenches, um, and Tua's still unsigned? I mean, this is a Miami team with.

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High, high expectations set.

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It makes it really difficult because you can't have two high price wide receivers, or in this case, Miami, they, they do, they do.

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It goes back to, well, who's going to be throwing them the ball because everyone knows our talented waterwares and Tyreek Hill scares the Jesus out of so many people, but if you don't have a quarterback, who's built chemistry with them, it makes it that much more difficult.

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And then you're going to end up.

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Kind of cutting one of those high price wide receivings because you paid so much for them, or you're going to ask someone for a pay cut, and they're going to say no, and they're going to walk out anyway.

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So this is kind of a conundrum and that, I guess, backs against the wall that Mike McDaniels, they're pushing themselves into.

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And listen, the Dolphins have a very Talented offensive roster and that, that's without Odell Beckham Jr joining, but you have to find a way to ink a deal with your quarterback.

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If you don't do it every day that you don't, it's almost like ransom.

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That, that price is only going to increase.

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It's not going to go down.

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So I, I would rather buy my goods at today's prices instead of buying them at tomorrow's prices where inflation is going to take it to a whole different level.

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I mean, based on the numbers and the, uh, success that the dolphins have had.

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Um, two is now in line for 55 million a year, because I'm asking for whatever Trevor Lawrence just got.

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It's, it's that simple for me.

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I feel as if they could have gotten the deal done sooner.

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Um, maybe not before last season, depending on how you felt going into year four, but they picked up the fifth year.

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They might as well just get the deal done.

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So they get off that, um, option for the remainder of the year.

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Uh, you know, we've had some other transactions kind of keeping, uh, keeping us up.

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You know, throughout the NFL offseason and many camps and now, uh, You know, preparing for training camp, T Higgins signed a one year deal so that he'd show up for the Bengals, which is good.

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I think this was the route that it was always going to be because the best version of the Bengals includes T Higgins, but he'll hit the open market next year.

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And I think Cincinnati is okay with that.

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And then meanwhile, Nick.

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I'm always scratching my head because the New England Patriots have identified talent off of a 4 win team and continue to re sign some of those players.

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Uh, Ramondre Stevenson now the 7th highest paid running back, 9 million a year as he signs a 3 year extension, um, as he was going into free agency after this year.

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So, the Bengals are better and somehow the Patriots think they're better with a bunch of guys from that 4 win team, although All in told, when it's Duggar and it's, um, uh, Mike Onwenu, and when it's Ramondre Stevenson, uh, and Hunter Henry, these were guys that made significant contributions.

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I wouldn't call them bright spots because it's hard to polish a turd, but my patriots are just kind of running it back at certain areas, and we'll see how it looks with, uh, Jacoby Brissett, and eventually, um, Eventually, Drake May, so I'm not, I'm not too inspired about it, but anything else that you saw from around the National Football League, Nick, before we get to, uh, before we split? Well, I want to touch on this Patriots situation, even though Oh, you're being too kind.

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Well, just because it doesn't seem as though, uh, they're making a big splash for signing the players.

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And the team didn't perform well last year.

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That wasn't Romandre Stevenson's fault.

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I mean, Bill Belichick was kind of going through a transition trying to figure out.

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You know, where he fits in this new pantheon of coaching.

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That's kind of crazy to say for a guy who's arguably one of the better coaches in professional football, but knowing as though, you know, if you're Coach Mayo, you needed to bring back some of your key pieces.

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Just because your team wasn't that great, that doesn't necessarily mean you let go.

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You know, key contributors go.

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No, this is how the Patriots actually went on that 20 year run.

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Oh, by the way, they had a guy by the name of Tom Brady, which would never be duplicated, but that was kind of the premise.

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It's the core guys.

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You build around those core guys.

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And I think what he's doing now is important.

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And you got to think about this and I know you, you love the Patriots, but consider this.

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If Bill Belichick is still the head coach, those are Mondre Stevens.

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Actually get that extension at this value.

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Yeah, I dig it.

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I mean, it's a, it's a player that I guess running backs that hit free agency, unless they're Saquon Barkley, don't really get the bag like Derek Henry signing a one year, 8 million deal with Baltimore, he's going to take less money to go to Baltimore.

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Hey, we're getting back to the deal with the Celtics.

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You identify talent, you keep them around and hopefully, you know, the cream rises to the top.

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Nick, before we split, we started in the NBA, so let's finish in the NBA.

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You know, we're doing this podcast for personal reasons and for our audience as well.

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But when I found out that the Lakers hired a podcaster to be their next head coach, I wonder, Nick, before we split, do you have any intention of leaving this podcast because you're soon to be offered a head coaching job? Uh, I would love to say that that is in the works, Alex, but, uh, no.

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Uh, unfortunately, uh, it's not in the works.

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Oh, unfortunate that you have to stick around with me.

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Very unfortunate for you, Nick.

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Well, I didn't say that.

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That's what you said.

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But, uh, when you think about what the Lakers were up against.

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Uh, it was one of those jobs that I'm going to say no one wanted, but some people inside, uh, in L.

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A.

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where you are, the idea is that, yes, this is the job.

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Who wouldn't want to work for the Lake Show? And it's like, uh, people, let me remind you, it's no longer the Staples Center, right? Pat Rowley is no longer coaching your team.

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Right.

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Jerry West is no longer in the front office.

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It is Rob Palenka and Jenny Buss, and they have not done the best job building a team, especially when you're allowing LeBron to have, and I'm giving air quotes here, influence, even though he says that he doesn't influence anything.

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That's a whole bunch of hogwash.

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But I'm trying to see, you know, and I put this out I wonder now that J.

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J.

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Redick has been named the next coach.

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Of the Los Angeles Lakers.

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What's the over under on how long will he actually last as the head coach, especially thinking about LeBron James history with coaches and with first time coaches at that.

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It is a huge risk.

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I mean, they know each other because they were in the league together.

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They do a podcast together.

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That's what we're missing, Nick.

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We're not drinking wine while we're doing this.

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And that's what, that's what it is.

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And no, you can't substitute apple cider vinegar for wine.

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We'll be drinking wine on this podcast one day.

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You best believe it.

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Uh, he's Nick Ferguson.

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He's the one talking to you about JJ Reddick signing a four year contract to become the Lakers next head coach.

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This man has range.

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He's a former NFL player.

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But anything you want to check in with him on, uh, how your team's looking so far through camp, um, the over under, well, we'll get a hard number for you on how many months JJ Redick lasts in that position, because I can at least say it's not going to be the full four years at Nick Ferguson underscore 25 for any questions you want to hurl at Nick, uh, I'm Alex Hardy.

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We are those guys.

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We hope to be your guys.

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And let me sit up in my chair because next week.

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We're going to continue taking a look at your teams as they prepare for training camp, and we've got some ideas cooking, Nick.

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I haven't even told you this, but we, uh, this is what we call a tease.

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And I'll be sure that we deliver on more exciting content throughout the summer.

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Hey, throw us on while you got the barbecue going.

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You're at the beach.

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Um, uh, or listen, you're just trying to beat the heat.

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Stay inside, throw us on with the air conditioning.

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I think our voices are loud enough to carry over that.

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So Nick, let's get out of here.

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What do you have to say to the people? All right, it is the summertime and hydration is really key.

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I have a cool drink for you guys.

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It's water, apple cider, vinegar, lemon, and any sweetener you want to.

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Now you can drink this hot I prefer since it's the summertime to drink it cool.

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It replenished your body as far as your electrolytes are concerned and it is delightful to drink.

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So make sure you try that.

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And that was the worst Florida man headline I've ever heard.

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That's Nick Ferguson.

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He's our Florida man.

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Catch you next week.

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Peace.