Why 30 Rock's Messy Leadership Still Beats Modern TV

Just Blane (00:00)
It is parallel frequencies with Just Blane Coco, and all the freqs out there. What's up freqs What's up Coco? How are you Coco?

Courtney Pearl (00:08)
I'm doing all right, I'm doing all right. Super excited to talk today. We have some cool stuff to share.

Just Blane (00:15)
my gosh, I can't believe that. Before we get to that though, let's talk about this text conversation, me and you had in different times, because that was the wildest thing ever today when I was talking to you. Yeah, but the texts were late or something, but I sent one yesterday and you responded today and it looked like it was yesterday and today. long story short, I ended up at the library looking for you.

Courtney Pearl (00:30)
time traveling.

Yeah.

Just Blane (00:42)
and you were at the indoor pool or something. You weren't even there.

Courtney Pearl (00:46)
And

not the first time that's happened to us, by the way, where you're like, I'm at this networking group, where are you? And I'm like, I'm not there.

Just Blane (00:52)
Yeah. And then I had to like, you know, secretly quietly sneak away. There's always crazy stuff happening. Just like last night. Let's talk about this because I don't know how this happened, but we ran into a guy, shady guy. And listen, I know some shady characters. I got a lot of people out there that I've run around with over the years. I mean, look at the people I'll hang out with. It's like people named old Toddylocks and Pokerface and people like that.

Courtney Pearl (00:55)
Hahaha.

Just Blane (01:20)
I know some shady characters, but a shady guy invited me and you to a movie screening. And I really thought it was gonna be, I thought we were gonna have to get out of there, Coco. I thought, you know, I thought.

Courtney Pearl (01:33)
the opportunity

to see what this was about given what we do here, right?

Just Blane (01:36)
Yeah,

but we definitely were only alert for the beginning. I can't believe what we saw.

Courtney Pearl (01:45)
I know. Insane. Freaks are not gonna believe it.

Just Blane (01:46)
I didn't know this was, I didn't know this was,

you won't believe it. We saw Forrest Gump 2 run, Forrest run for president. And I'm telling you people, the freqs out there, you're not gonna believe it, but this whole thing is, is, it's crazy. It's, it's got Tom Hanks in it and he ends up accidentally running for president. And he got a vice president who happens to be Bubba's cousin.

Coco, did you know who that was playing?

Courtney Pearl (02:16)
Yeah, Danny Glover? Donald Glover. Okay, yeah. Donald Danny. Got it.

Just Blane (02:18)
Donald, Donald Glover.

Donald

Glover, who was childish Gambino plays Bubba's cousin doing a full Southern philosopher character. It was wild. And the whole premise of this Forrest Gump too was it's kind of, it's set in the early 2000s Forrest Gump accidentally becomes a write-in candidate for president after a viral misunderstanding involving a shrimp boat, a fax machine and a motivational speech at Bass Pro Shops grand opening.

Courtney Pearl (02:32)
Yeah, true.

Just Blane (02:51)
The next thing you know, he wins the damn presidency. I didn't even know they were developing this movie.

Courtney Pearl (02:58)
I know they must have been so secret about it. I mean, I want to know if the freqs out there had any idea this was coming out because the fact that we got a little sneak peek into that was like total happenstance, right? Like, this is crazy.

Just Blane (03:10)
I mean,

was it not hilarious when he invented some stuff? What did he invent?

Courtney Pearl (03:16)
Yeah, I mean, just like true Forrest Gump fashion, you know, where he's just falling bass backwards into all of these different situations, ends up accidentally inventing TikTok, calls it fast talking television and crypto because he thought it was chocolate coins. I mean, just, you know, just like the original. I mean, it was just as good.

Just Blane (03:29)
first

couldn't believe what we saw. And a soundtrack was popping too. Piano covers of the early 2000 hits. You know, we even had an unnecessary cameo by Eminem himself.

Courtney Pearl (03:46)
Mm-hmm.

Just Blane (03:53)
And it was like a debate on TV and it was almost like that eight mile scene. It was crazy. You know, this is wild.

Courtney Pearl (03:57)
Yeah, but he agreed

to do this. That is just hilarious to me.

Just Blane (04:03)
I got a leaked memo too. I found a leaked memo from the company. It's a leaked internal memo. And I did have some questions about this too because Jenny, who's Jenny played by?

Courtney Pearl (04:17)
Robin Wright, yeah.

Just Blane (04:18)
Right, right,

right. She died in Forrest Gump 1, but she's back in Forrest Gump 2 as a moral compass ghost for Forrest. And in the internal memo, it said that there were some internal concerns with legal. I could see this being a problem when this movie finally hits the public.

Courtney Pearl (04:22)
Right, Jenny died. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, people might be wishing that they had voted for Forrest Gump for president... ...in real life. But, ...'cause yeah, I'd vote for him. For sure. But yeah, I'm just, I'm just... I was blown away that they got so many original, ⁓ actors from... ...the first one to come back and do this. It was insane to me. What a-

Just Blane (04:43)
Yeah.

Yeah, me too. Me too.

Well, let's go ahead and get on to our West for Wednesday. I think we did Forrest Gump. I wonder if people are believing that right there. You think so?

Courtney Pearl (05:07)
If they did, they didn't look at the date today.

Just Blane (05:09)
April, first is today.

Courtney Pearl (05:13)
April fools!

Just Blane (05:15)
And

if you fail for that, please just hang around with us because you're one of us. You're a freak. If you stayed through all of that and you believed it in any way, we love you.

Courtney Pearl (05:23)
⁓

I want to know, want to know if anybody, just tell me what were you thinking? Tell me in the comments. Yeah, I knew it was a joke from the beginning or like you had me for a minute. I would love to know.

Just Blane (05:35)
Would that be wild though? That would be a wild sequel. Today is April. Yeah, right? Today is, I threw that little twist in there. Today is April 1st and there is a sequel that came out today and it's the Mario Brothers. And that's not April Fool's joke. I can't wait to see this at least two, three, four dozen times. Cause that's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna watch this movie. Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (05:39)
Yeah, I was actually digging it. ⁓ sign me up.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I got

tickets to Mario Brothers the Galaxy, is it? Super Galaxy something. I'm sorry, I'm not up on it, but I got tickets for me and the kids because it's spring break, know? Gotta entertain the kids, so we're gonna go see you tomorrow.

Just Blane (06:04)
Super galaxy, super galaxy, super Mario Brothers galaxies. I don't know, whatever.

What time?

Courtney Pearl (06:17)
4, 410, shopping. Yep, down the street right here from our house.

Just Blane (06:18)
Down the street here?

What seat numbers

are you guys in? I'm inviting myself.

Courtney Pearl (06:28)
You know, I hate to say it and you know, no ⁓ shame whatsoever, nothing against Mario Brothers. It's all great. I've loved the movie so far. It's all fine. But there was a part of me that was like, maybe I'll just like sit the kids down, get them their snacks and then like sneak out into the lobby and just get some work done. Because I'm not like dying to see it like they are. So ⁓ no, I'll probably sit and watch the whole thing. I will. Don't tear me apart for that. But I'll go. I'll go sit down and see it.

Just Blane (06:50)
Yeah!

You better, you better. That's all

I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. You better go in there and see. But today is Whistful Wednesday. And I'm excited about today because it is a show that I don't know, we might've forgotten about at this point, but I don't think so because it the groundwork for a lot of stuff. But it's like a lot of shows. How many shows out there do you know that feel chaotic, surgical, but...

Courtney Pearl (06:59)
I will, I will.

Just Blane (07:21)
yet somehow still heartfelt. And that's what Tina Fey really did with 30 Rock. And honestly, this is gonna be more of a love letter to Tina Fey for me than about 30 Rock because let me just go into who she is. She didn't just star in this 30 Rock show. She architected it like a comedy war general. She had the head writer energy, a Harvard brain.

Courtney Pearl (07:36)
Me too.

Just Blane (07:49)
Improv instincts from Second City and all of that is a dangerous combo. Before this, before 30 Rocks, she was already rewriting the DNA of SNL Saturday Night Live. First female head writer, by the way, and it wasn't just symbolic, it was a structural change. You ever notice how some people don't wait for permission, they just redesign the room? That's Tina Fey, that's what she did with SNL and I love.

Courtney Pearl (08:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yup.

Just Blane (08:20)
that she made an awkward, intelligent person the main character of 30 Rock, Liz Lemon. Yeah, she's not trying to be cool. She's just trying to survive. She's probably the smartest one in the room, but you still see her going through all the awkwardness. And that's real life for most of us, if we're being honest. Is it not?

Courtney Pearl (08:26)
A very realistic person. Thank you.

Absolutely. mean that the character of Liz lemon so relatable and watching it back on the rewatch even to be like I Am I'm now more than ever relating to Liz lemon how was lemon feels? ⁓ walking around trying to figure out what it means to be a woman to be a boss and By the way, Tina Fey. Well, we're doing this love letter to Tina Fey. Okay, she is my personal hero

She has been for decades and ⁓ I've listened to her audio book Bossy Pants probably six times or more all the way through. And I never get bored and I never get tired of listening to it. It's one of my favorite books and memoirs. She's just an incredible person. And she really ushered in that era of women on SNL. I feel like there was this boom. I mean, the women of SNL have always been great. Like don't get me wrong, they're all great.

Just Blane (09:38)
Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (09:40)
But she talks about it in Bossy Pounce where she's like, just dressing a man up as a woman and making him play a woman character was all it took for a very long time. And her time on SNL like leveled up the comedy in a way that made it so that the women were featured much more well represented. So you had, I mean, that was kind of when Amy Poehler came in and you started seeing ⁓ Kristen Wiig.

Maya Rudolph, Rachel Dratch. mean, this was just like, it just boomed for women during that period, I felt. I felt like it was like, I remember the women from that cast even more than I remember the men, I think. But that's just me.

Just Blane (10:21)
Yeah,

yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And they rolled with that energy really into 30 Rock. And all of the women you just named off are all superstars.

Courtney Pearl (10:29)
Mm-hmm.

Funniest women ever. mean, was in the time Tina Fey was coming up. It was the time when you most often heard people say things like, women aren't funny. It was so common to hear that. I'm happy to say I just don't hear that as much anymore. I think that that broke us open in a way that ⁓ it didn't just allow women to be funny, it allowed people to see women as funny. And I think women were funny.

Just Blane (10:43)
Yeah!

Courtney Pearl (11:01)
far more before that. But I think there was something about her force of nature in that business that just broke it open. Broke open the gates.

Just Blane (11:09)
I think so too.

think you're right. But there were people out there saying that kind of stuff like, ⁓ women comedians aren't funny. Well, the men aren't either. Not every comedian is funny and they're not your flavor. That's kind of what it boiled down to. But when you see a woman, maybe you don't laugh at the comedy, but when you see a woman on a Netflix special and she's got a sold out house, somebody thinks it's funny. know? So I love.

Courtney Pearl (11:22)
for your flavor, that's right. Yep.

Yeah, or she's

either ugly or she's funny, but she can't be, you know, all the stereotypical things they said about women in comedy. But yeah, she's not only a great comedian, she's an excellent boss. She's a great leader. And she talks about in Bossy Pants, like kind of how she uses and implements the ideas of improv into the workplace. And honestly, I don't care if you're in the entertainment business or not, if you're in leadership, if you work anywhere.

Just Blane (11:42)
Yeah! Yeah!

Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (12:02)
read that book and you will have some principles to rule by. It's excellent advice. She's really good at what she does. Yeah.

Just Blane (12:08)
I loved it. There's,

Coco's book recommendation right there. Look at that. We're doing book recommendations. like it.

Courtney Pearl (12:17)
There it is. Now you got it.

Just Blane (12:18)
She rolled

with this energy though into 30 Rock because on the surface, the show is behind the scenes comedy about a sketch show. So if that wasn't kind of parallels to her real life, previous life, I guess at the point because she had left SNL and everything else. But yeah, underneath all of it was, it's really about power and security, ego and creative chaos in corporate America. You know?

Courtney Pearl (12:45)
Hehehehehe

Just Blane (12:46)
Liz

Lemon is basically Tina Fey saying you can be brilliant and still be a mess. You can lead and still doubt yourself. That's okay. And you can win and still feel like you're losing, which we've talked about with other shows here on Parallel Frequencies. But that's why people connect. Not because it's polished, but because it's honest under the jokes. And we saw a lot of that represented in 30 bra.

Courtney Pearl (13:02)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Yeah, the the opposing characters of Liz Lemon who is obviously very much the creative type not materialistic ⁓ Devoted to her work quick witted funny a little bit of a mess not really sure what she's doing in her personal life like all that going on and you have Jack Donaghy Alec Baldwin I mean what a pair to put together that is just comedy gold in my opinion

Just Blane (13:30)
Yeah

⁓

Courtney Pearl (13:41)
And a lot of the characters in this show, the jokes, the situations that they're in, they're pretty extreme. You're not looking at something that's very realistic, it's down to earth, it's really exaggerated, it's really, ⁓ on surface level, it's just really goofy and kind of not realistic at all. But underneath all that, there's some real themes, real things to...

Banter back and forth with and Jack and Liz that's kind of the best comedy gold you get in this whole series Which is like he's a very conservative very corporate very he's really concerned about ⁓ more concerned about the the umbrella company the top company GE That owns the station and the network and all the things so it's got its like little claws into all the creative stuff and that creates just so much conflict and banter and all the

Good stuff. Love it.

Just Blane (14:39)
They did

the meta thing and had NBC do a show about NBC, which was cool before it was cool, right? Like that was the thing. And you're right, like the creative versus the corporate is overly exaggerating this, but I have been in this world. And I will say that a lot of this is accurate. You get that. I was the creative, I was not the corporate. Look at me now.

Courtney Pearl (14:44)
here.

Just Blane (15:05)
You can tell I'm not Jack Donaghy with the suit and tie and the slicked back hair and having that look. But I've known people like him. Maybe not to that extreme, but they are there in the corporate world and they do only see one thing. They don't care. They look at the bottom line. They're looking at that bottom line and they don't care where it comes from and they just want to move it. Jack Donaghy, Alec Baldwin, a corporate shark.

Courtney Pearl (15:05)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, looking for money making opportunities, looking for, you know, yeah.

Just Blane (15:33)
with a silk tie and a Reagan poster in his soul. He played him like capitalism learned how to flirt. And that was incredible though. And let's talk about the other characters because the characters on 30 Rock World Weapons, Tracy Jordan, know, chaos incarnate, but Low King, he's the most honest dude in the room half the time. And that's a great quality to have in the entertainment world. Jenna Maroney, Jenna Maroney.

Courtney Pearl (15:52)
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Just Blane (16:02)
Insecurity wrapped up in spotlight glitter. Every performer has a little Jenna in them. Don't lie, I know you do. yeah, who are you in? Here's the question for you, Coco, and the freqs. Who are you in the 30 Rock ecosystem? Are you Jack, Liz, or are you just watching it all burn down like Tracy did?

Courtney Pearl (16:10)
little bit of a diva, maybe even undeservingly so.

I don't think anybody has to question what part I would be. I'm Liz Lemon all the way. I'm the one who's like just trying to get it done, just trying to wrangle this team of writers and figure out how to get the golden egg out of some of them when they're just, they've got their own ideas of what's going on, trying to balance personal life and work life and.

Just Blane (16:32)
Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (16:53)
you know, kind of making a mess of it all over the place. I related to every bit of that. And I also related to the scene that's now infamous where there's this very special sandwich that they wait all year for and then they finally get, someone eats hers and she comes throwing stuff. You know, this pretty kind, usually workable kind of personality. She comes in there with like all the rage flipping over tables. Where's my sandwich? I was like, yep.

see myself in that. Yep, there's a little bit me there. For sure.

Just Blane (17:23)
Yeah?

That was me.

I think if we talk to anybody that I've worked with, they'd probably say I was the Liz Lemon, but probably a mix of Tracy too, because I didn't mind just watching the chaos happen a lot of times or being in the middle of it. You know, it was never really caused. Yeah, it was never really caused by me, I don't think, but yeah, I think I would have been a mix of them too. Definitely not. Yeah. yeah.

Courtney Pearl (17:43)
being in the middle of it.

⁓ there's so many fantastic characters here to think about.

mean, all those writers and Lutz and, ⁓ what's the guy that always wore the hat? Maybe that's, you know, he was like playing the video games and feeling Frank. Yeah.

Just Blane (17:59)
drink

Frank!

Judah

Friedlander, Frank, I loved that. And he made hats with different, whatever, quotes, logos, and he made it cool. That was a cool Easter egg kind of included into the show. And the rumor writers, mean, it's pretty ironic, if you wanna call it that, of why the show works because the writing still hits us today. The joke density in the show,

Courtney Pearl (18:12)
Thanks Adam. Yeah.

Just Blane (18:32)
It's almost disrespectful. It's like you blink and you miss three punch lines and a cultural reference.

Courtney Pearl (18:32)
Good.

Absolutely. Yep,

it was quick. It's quick and it's witty and it's ⁓ almost thrown away, right? Like the jokes aren't like, la-da-da-da-da, punch line, laugh track. It's like, bam, bam, onto the next and go and go. brilliant.

Just Blane (18:46)
Please!

But that's absolutely why it works

is because it trained us to be smarter and not lazier. They didn't hold her hands. know, it's really Tina Fey trusted the audience's intelligence and that's rare, especially now. So thank you, Tina Fey for trusting us, but it makes the show rewatchable as well because you can watch it a hundred times and those quick back to back to back jokes.

Courtney Pearl (19:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Just Blane (19:22)
You didn't get number one the first time, but you got number two. You you're going to get all of that and it starts coming together. I just think it's very well written and let's, let's just say it because Tina Fey changed the culture. ⁓ She made being a woman in power look complicated, not perfect, which is what it is. No superhero energy, no girl boss fantasy even.

Courtney Pearl (19:26)
Yeah. Yeah. So late.

Mm-hmm.

Just Blane (19:51)
She just does it, right? Like she's not like this, it's not, yeah, it's just reality. It's messy leadership. And I'm gonna tell you in that world that she's in, it is very messy. When the microphones and the broadcast starts at 5 a.m., 5 p.m., whatever, there's no waiting around. Like you can't be like, ⁓ Blane can't make it.

Courtney Pearl (20:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

Just Blane (20:19)
until five minutes after, let's hold the show. That's not how it works. So a lot of it is chaotic behind this thing. It's always there. And she held it together. She was a perfect leader, if you ask me in this. Yeah, but she really did pave the way for putting women in creative spaces.

Courtney Pearl (20:24)
Disco.

I think so. Yeah, I think so.

Mm-hmm. Yep, showing that you could do it. I also think the themes, like underlying themes of what was going on with these characters and as surface levels as seems, because it was pretty wacky. Like a lot of things were wacky, right? Just like, that's not realistic, but it's meant for a laugh. Great. There is, if you look, a lot of themes going on underneath this. And one of the things that I took note of is, you know, women working in television.

Just Blane (20:51)
Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (21:05)
It's not all that different than women working anywhere, anywhere in the world, right? Because Liz struggles with her identity in a lot of ways of she's not that beautiful, gorgeous type. ⁓ I actually think she is gorgeous, but she doesn't show that ⁓ the comparison with Suri, the assistant that everybody's gawking in the room and she's always wearing like a bikini to work or something.

Just Blane (21:23)
me too.

Courtney Pearl (21:35)
And Liz is like, you know, she tries to dress nice one day and like season one, she gets dressed up and she kind of walks in like, all right, look, I'm hot too. And everybody's like, ew, girl. And when I tell you I relate to Liz Lemon, I really, really do because it feels like, yeah, okay, so I wear glasses, I have brown hair instead of yellow hair. She always calls it yellow hair because she's like, why do we have to have brown hair and they have blonde hair? But she's like,

Just Blane (21:47)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (22:05)
you know, just a regular person and in television she's like, how do I make sure that I am listened to? How do I make sure that, you if I'm not the beauty in the office, am I still gonna be respected for who I am and what I offer? And should it be about looks at all anyway? And I mean, all of those push and pull dynamics going on with ⁓ what it means to be a woman in society, in television, at the workplace.

Whatever it is, it's like, wanna dress professionally, I wanna be taken seriously, but also it shouldn't be about that, and I don't wanna play into that. I don't wanna let people treat me a certain way just because of how I look. I love all of that dynamic going on of how she can either show up to be, if she's a little too bossy or a little too firm in what she's saying, is she gonna be called a bitch? Is she gonna be respected? If Jack acts a certain way, he's respected, because he's a man.

Just Blane (22:58)
Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (23:04)
And all those dynamics are played out in this series. I love seeing all that come into play.

Just Blane (23:09)
Yeah, what's your final thought on 30 Rock?

Courtney Pearl (23:12)
my gosh, okay. Too much to sum up, but if I could just say the guest stars on this show. Holy crap, the list of stars. I was starting to list them out. ⁓ yeah, this person's, I'm like, I can't even say all these names. There's so many. Jason Sudeikis, we talked about it in Ted Lasso, plays one of Liz Lammon's love interests. James Mardson, Matt Damon, ⁓ John Hamm, all the.

Just Blane (23:19)
Mmm.

Courtney Pearl (23:39)
funniest, funniest roles that they play. And my favorite thing when these guys get on any of these guest stars, a lot of times it's playing with perspectives quite a bit. Like the time when Liz Lemon thought she was talking to Oprah Winfrey on the airplane and the whole time she's like, can you just say Liz Lemon? And she invites her to come on the show and then finds out.

that it was because she was drugged, she thought it was Oprah Winfrey and it was actually this 14 year old girl. My favorite, favorite things that happen on the show are when perspectives are shifted a little bit. The reunion episode when Liz thinks that she was bullied heavily in school, she was the nerd and all the popular girls were mean to her and she goes to the reunion and they're like, you were the meanest girl in school and she was like,

Just Blane (24:13)
Hilarious.

Yeah.

Courtney Pearl (24:38)
All of a sudden the exact same scene that flashback that they had earlier is flipped and she's the one who's like extra mean to everybody. I loved all of that, being able to just shift perspectives and just be like, actually it's not what you think it is, it's this. Or you perceive things a certain way, it's not actually how it was at all. And this show played with all those themes as well, so.

Just Blane (25:03)
Great take. Great take on the show.

Courtney Pearl (25:05)
Too many final thoughts,

I know. I just blasted it all out there.

Just Blane (25:08)
But you know what?

You know what? We can always come back to 30 Rock because I think we could and should easily. But you're right. You know what though about the, all the cameos and the guest celebrities and all that? That just shows you how connected these people were. Cause this guy, it got to be where Tina Fey just had to say, hey, so when, hey Hannibal Barras, do you want to come on the show? It was one of those kinds of things, you know, like, and that's the cool part too because

Courtney Pearl (25:13)
⁓ we could.

for sure.

Mm-hmm.

Just Blane (25:38)
You see friends coming to her lending a hand and helping grow this thing because they believed in her. And I think there was a lot of that. And it was that interconnected Hollywoodness. And it was all, yeah, I want to be a part of that. Tina Fey is writing it. Let's go. And that talks to something bigger. Like have you ever tried to build something, whether it was a show, a brand, a vision, a business, 30 Rock hits different if you have.

Courtney Pearl (25:46)
for sure.

Absolutely.

Just Blane (26:06)
Because it's not just about the success. It's about managing chaos while chasing it. And that's what podcasting is. That's what content creation is. That's what life is. Yeah, that's what it is. Real talk for the freqs out there. When in your life have you been Liz Lemon? Are you right now? Should you be?

Courtney Pearl (26:13)
you

That's what parenthood is.

for short.

Just Blane (26:33)
You know, what do you think? Can you be, can you be, can you be a Liz Lemon or are you somebody else? Let us know. Let us know. But we're going to wrap this thing up. I'm Just Blane. That's Coco. You're the Freaks and this is Parallel Frequency. We'll see you on the other side.

Courtney Pearl (26:34)
Yeah, and what does that look like for you? I would love to know that.

See you