I will tell you, I got tricked into going into administration. It was never in my game plan. You got tricked? Who tricked you? A week later, the world shut down and I was a first-year principal trying to figure out how to make people wear masks and do contact tracing.

And it was crazy. It was crazy. And I was also pregnant with my first child. Dr. Watson and Sherlock Holmes do find this way to really counterbalance.

Everybody sees Sherlock Holmes as a brilliant guy, but in reality, he had to have the grounding nature of Dr. Watson to really be able to make it work. I think ego gets in the way and we try to call ourselves a mouse when we're a rat. If you're a rat, it's okay to be a rat, right? It just is.

But sometimes that's hard. Sometimes it's hard to accept our shortcomings. Sometimes it's hard to accept who we are. I wasn't prepared for the level of which parents would push back when I felt like I was trying to help their kid. Our scores have increased beyond anything I ever even thought possible.

I wouldn't treat them for anything. Welcome to Yes And Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today, and we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome everybody to another episode of Yes And Land. We are very excited today to be joined by a bit of a star, I'm going to say, in Jordan School District amongst the principals in Jordan School District. Marianne is well known for her skills in entertainment with students in the past, with well really still the students but in a much broader scale because now she's a principal.

We will hopefully get to hear a little bit of that a little bit later, which is some freestyle rapping. I'm very excited about this, right? Because Lin-Manuel Miranda is one of my favorites and boy, that guy can do a freestyle rap. He is incredible at it. We're very excited to hear a little bit about how she got into teaching and education, her story of how she got into administration and to being a principal.

And we're going to look at a lot of this stuff through the lens of the great mouse detective, which is, boy, it's a little known gem. Because as I was going back in the annals of my brain, I don't think I ever actually watched it before. I don't think I did. Because it came out and I would have been relatively young and it didn't do amazing in the box office. And so I've actually watched it twice since we first talked.

Because I watched it the first time and I was like, I don't think I saw this. And I was like, okay, now I watch my kids now. So I watched them like, I actually really like this little flick here. This is a good little gem. So we're going to be talking about that and we're going to look at just some life lessons that we can pull from it, where maybe it'll be lit where you stand.

Maybe it'll be something different. That's our topic today. We're going to kind of see how this plays out, Mary Ann. So I'm very excited. I'm excited to see how this conversation organically evolves.

And I might have to take my notes and just throw them right out. And that's okay, because we can freestyle the conversation as well. And the rap. The rap freestyle probably won't come from me, but it can come from you. As long as I don't have to sing, then maybe it's okay.

I guess I can rap. I can talk. That's why I like some of Lin-Manuel's stuff that he's done with Disney, because you're welcome. You don't really have to sing to sing that song because you can just rap it. And it's just totally fine.

I intentionally, when I write my raps that I perform for my kids, I intentionally choose songs where I don't have to worry about the pitch. Because although I have a vocal background, it's too much. But I'm trying to spit out all the words and I usually finish writing it at 1 AM the night before. That's a component that I don't need to work in. And so I intentionally choose songs that are pretty vocally flat.

That totally makes sense. A number of years ago, at a prior job, I had tried to rewrite words that were for this meeting for some of my teammates with a song from Tangled. And now the name's escaping me. What's the one that she's in, the snuggly duckling? I've got a dream.

I've got a dream. That's what it was. Because in that one, you don't really have to sing, have to sing. I'm kind of toxin it. So I was like, I could probably make this one happen.

I'm going to have the gruff voice. So I'm with you there. Parodies are such a great way to teach and get your message across. See, I love this. You're so right.

And I've been talking with a number of people recently about how we learn and how we can make learning more fun and more entertaining. We should. And we should connect you with Dr. Disneyland. Dr.

Disneyland, his name is Jeff Barnes. He originated and taught the only course at the collegiate level on the history of Disneyland. And he's all about finding entertainment in the way that you teach. It's phenomenal. I get connected with him.

And I am all for it. I think that there are so many ways we can make learning more fun. If I had a tagline that I wanted to live and die by that I would want people to remember me by, it would be that rigor should be fun and fun should be rigorous. And that's kind of the mantra that I embrace at my school is that, you know, Einstein actually said creativity is intelligence having fun. My favorite quote.

That's a good one. So it's a good one. Yeah. But yes, when kids are engaged and having fun, they are learning more and at higher levels. What's your opinion about, which is we're going to vary.

So what's your opinion about the tension span? A lot of people are saying right now the kids have worse attention spans. That's what they're saying. People think it. And some of the studies aren't necessarily backing that up.

But I want to hear what your opinion is about kids' attention span because you're seeing kids every single day and how that attention span plays into their ability to learn in school. Right. What's your take? Again, it's, are you prepared? And is your content interesting to kids?

Kids can pay attention. I think this gets blamed on video games and YouTube. But if you think about it, like kids will play the same video game for hours and hours and hours. It's not the I have a lot of areas that I could grow professionally and in every area of my life. But I can command a group of 350 kids for 45 minutes without any problem.

It's an entertainment component, right? I'm sick being in front of adults and it's an entirely different story. But if you want me to entertain kids, we have the National Chair of the Art Council visit my school from Washington, D.C. this year. And we had, it was kind of a last minute thing.

We prepped this whole assembly and she was at an event up at the Capitol and wound up being delayed by like 25 minutes. We had to postpone the assembly. The kids were sitting there. They were waiting. It was packed.

It was May. It was the end of the year. You and I made like zero issues. Like, you know, I stood up. I told some jokes.

We like talked a little bit like it. Kids can do it. They can do it. You have to make them want to. Which that I think has been a little bit of a mind shift, right?

I think there was a time where you were just expected to sit in your desk and be quiet. And those days are definitely gone. But you can you can get kids attention for a long time if you do it the right way. That's exactly right. You know, it's interesting that you've keyed off on that.

I was just listening some material by Adam Grant. Okay. He's amazing, right? He's very research based. Like he's going to pull in studies and pull in research.

And he has very strong opinions about this. And what his opinions are based in the research is that when you look at adults and children's attention spans from 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, and now it's not actually any different. It hasn't gotten worse. It's just what keeps them entertained for longer because he brought exactly the thing that you did. If a kid can sit there and play a video game for 14 hours straight, we don't have an attention span problem.

That's not the problem. If a kid can binge, you know, a season of Netflix that's 10 episodes long and watch the entire thing in one sitting, we don't have an attention span problem. We have an entertainment problem. What's going to keep their attention? And that does up the ante a little bit.

It may be a little bit harder to keep your attention. But I like what you said, right? Like it's fun as rigorous. Rigorous is fun and fun as rigorous. It should be rigor and rigor should be fun.

Yeah. And so it takes effort to get there. But it's I mean, it isn't easy. You definitely have clearly a natural ability, right? To entertain kids for that long.

Some have to work at it a little bit more like they should. Yes, because we need to keep their attention on this. And they deserve that. They do. They deserve to be taught in a way that they can learn.

Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Okay. Okay.

So that was a fun detour. That was. You might take a few more though. We need to do a whole different podcast just on my philosophy of like arts and education and how we can help kids learn. Well, I think we're going to pull some of that into that.

Okay, I think we would love that. So let's go to your background. Yeah. So you get into education. Was that something that you always wanted to do?

Was it something you fell into? Like, tell me about that journey to getting to be an educator. It was something I always wanted to do. I dabbled in some other ideas. You know, I was like, maybe child psychology.

There was marine biologists for a little bit. I think every kid goes through that. You know, you go to see George Costanza. And then there was architecture. Art Mandalay.

All right, here we go. We're aging ourselves a little bit. We're 90s kids, clearly. No, I think I just don't ever know that I thought there was a different option. I think I thought, well, I can be a teacher.

I can be a nurse. My she's very good at it. I didn't like blood and was more on the queasy side. So I was like, that's not for me. That's not my thing.

And so, yeah, I think too, I just, and this is kind of where I think I really started to connect with this movie on a different level when I was watching it again through this lens, is that things don't always work out the way that they're supposed to, but you live where you stand and you do what you can with the resources that you have. And you connect with your people and things work out for the best. And so I think in my head, I mean, I grew up in Bagna. And I think in my very naive brain, I was like, yeah, you know, we'll graduate from college and then I'll teach for a couple of years. And then I'm like, gonna stay home and get married and have seven kids and like raise all of them to be amazing humans.

And that's going to be my life. And so I don't think I ever considered it as a long-term profession. I never saw myself being in this career for a long period of time. And so, yeah, after I had been teaching for a couple of years, I started to think, well, there's a whole world of opportunity out there. I don't know why I never explored it before, but I want to explore it now.

And so I did. I decided I was going to go to law school and went down that path and that didn't work out. And, you know, I didn't meet my husband until I was 29. And I could not be more grateful that my life has turned out the way I was. Which is very normal.

Very normal. Except in Utah, not as normal. But actually, I met my wife when she was 29 and she had never been married. Oh, really? Oh, that's fun.

Absolutely. Okay. I know, right? I know you guys need to like get connected, right? Yeah, we need to be friends.

Yeah. So when you're originally kind of deciding this education thing, was it that you knew you wanted to do elementary? You did elementary school or did you do something else? I did elementary school. Although when I first decided I was going to go into teaching, my first declared major was actually a math teacher, a high school math teacher.

Oh, like, no, I don't. Oh, well, actually, maybe that helps. Yeah, math was difficult for me. Yeah. So that's actually probably why you'd be a good teacher.

And yes. And that is what my AP statistics teacher told me when she was convincing me to become a math teacher is, you know, I said, I'm not good at this. This is a struggle for me. And she said, that's why you'd be good at teaching it because you get why kids don't get it. And so that's kind of where I started.

And then where did you do your undergrad? Utah State. Oh, like the place to go for education, especially elementary education. Yes. My sister went.

Oh, and it's like super. It is. Yes. It's I mean, like, top west of the Mississippi. So yeah, I in fact, I did my my graduate degree there.

So I double dips. What was your graduate degree in? Education and leadership. Yeah. Amazing.

Yes. And that in and of itself, like I will tell you, I will tell you, I got tricked into going to into administration. It was never in my game plan. You got tricked. Who tricked you?

Your boss. They're like, well, hey, Nareen. Yes. Which is kind of part of the story that is thinking about jumping into today. So so let's let's take a pause.

Yeah. Okay. Give us the synopsis of the great mouse detective, because I'm guessing we're a layer in some stuff. And because the great mouse detective came out a little while ago, and maybe not everybody seen it. No, we're gonna rely on this synopsis.

So I am okay, buckled up. I'm ready to go. It's a very fringe Disney movie. Yes. But my kids love it, which is kind of why we decided on this show, because it's it's lesser known.

And my five and year old are obsessed with it. And it deserves some attention. 100% it does. So it's basically Disney spin on Sherlock Holmes. And so it's placed in 1886 England.

And you have a toy maker and his daughter who are just hoping to celebrate her birthday quietly in their little toy shop. And they are interrupted by the antagonist or I guess the antagonist, the antagonist, page boy, who comes to kidnap the toy maker for some nefarious plans that Rattigan is the the Moriarty of the story. And he has some various plans that he is putting into motion. And this very astute and tenacious daughter who was left behind in this toy shop finds an article about this detective Basil of Baker Street, who solves all the mysteries and he's brilliant. And so this little, you know, she could be more than five or six.

This little girl just takes off and, and goes in search. And I mean, she's a mouse, right? So the great mouse detective. So they're all mice and rodents in the movie. And there are most of them in this are mice, the little page boy, meaning he's like a bat, right?

And then Rattigan is a rat. And that's a thing. He's mad about being a rat. He wants to be a mouse. He has a complex about behavior.

Totally has this complex. It makes everybody lie about it. Yes. Makes everyone call him a mouse. And then she finds Basil of Baker Street and on the way meets a Dr.

Watson. She actually gets lost and is unsuccessful in finding and tracking down Basil of Baker Street, runs into Dr. Watson and he helps her and they find him and, you know, convince him is a strong word. He doesn't want to help. He doesn't want to help at all, right?

No. In fact, he's like very much trying to brush her off and is not interested in her lost father. Until she mentioned the bat. And then he all of a sudden realizes that, oh, this could be an avenue in which I can finally beat Rattigan. And so then he's all in and he's like fully committed, but he doesn't want the girl to come.

So he tries to leave her behind and she is not one to be laid by intelligent detectives. So he insists on accompanying him and he gives in. But then they go on this adventure where they're trying to track down this rat and they're essentially just trying to interrupt his plans for ultimately, you find out later in the movie, kidnapping the Queen of Victoria, right? And it's her diamond Jubilee. And so they're kidnapping her and replacing her with a toy version.

Hence the reason he needs the toy maker. I mean, spoiler alerts, you don't, you're not worth the toy maker. So to create this toy, it's an animatronic toy, essentially, that he can use to make it sound like the Queen of England is giving all of her power and signing over her job to him and letting him run the country. And he has all of these evil ideas, you know, or how he would run the country, but he just, he's power hungry and he just wants to be in charge. And so it's just kind of how they eventually, you know, succeed in this plan.

And of course they all live happily ever after. Of course, that's the way it has to work, right? Which is good. It's a great synopsis. And as we go, there's a couple of quotes from it that I'll kind of plot at times to ask you about, because there's some really interesting things that happen along that path that I think play into this idea that we're going to talk about.

Lifting where you stand, playing your roles, but also accepting when other people are and what that means. So that'd be fun. Okay. It'll be fun. Okay.

So now back to your story. Yes. So you go to Utah State, you end up also doing a graduate degree, and then you get tricked into becoming an administrator. So tell me more about that. So I had been teaching, I taught fifth and sixth grade.

My first teaching job, oddly enough, was PE, which I graduated from college and then I actually served an LDS mission in Taiwan. And when I came back, it was January, it was the middle of the school year. The only teaching job available is PE. So I'm like, I can do that. And again, was never my plan.

But that's where I taught, that's where I learned to entertain kids. It's where I learned to master my classroom management. And it's really where I learned to integrate. Because I really wanted, I was at a very low-income school, so a very low-income school. And I just really wanted to help.

I wanted to feel like I was helping with the academic components. And so it would come to me, and it was also a win-win, right? We would play, you know, you get out those little scooters and they'd have the squishy foam balls or whatever, and I'd put up goals. And we'd play these games, but you want to work on passing and you want to work on teamwork and you want to work on sportsmanship. And so I shipped the rules of the game to, okay, it's five points when you score a goal, but you get three points every time you pass the ball before you score.

So every continual, so if you pass it five times and then you score a goal, your team just earned 20 points, right? And so then they were more inclined to pass the ball, but I also made them keep track of points while they were passing. So then, you know, I have third graders who are counting by threes, which is part of their curriculum. And so I just really wanted to maximize their time with me and make sure that we were using it well. And, you know, it was never my plan, but it really kind of jump started my teaching career into what it evolved into.

So then I taught fifth and sixth grade for a few years, and then my school district started this program where they wanted to have teachers go and teach art, music, dance, drama to kids throughout the district. And so I got really excited. I'm a pianist. I've taken piano lessons since I was five. I took them until I became an administrator.

And so my piano teacher is my second mom. So shout out to Cindy Lambert. She will always be so near and dear to my heart. And like I said, I also have some vocal training. And so I applied for this job and was hired and we just fell in love with it.

It was like all of the best parts of teaching and none of the bad parts of teaching. And so I would go, I had four different schools and each day of the week I'd show up at my school and I'd have kids for 45 minutes. And I would do these lessons where again, I wanted to feel like I was contributing to their academic success. And so everything I taught was integrated and we, you know, it might be math, it might be language arts, it might be whatever, science, but it was all integrated. And I did that for a year.

And after my first year, our supervisor asked if I would take over leading that charge. And so essentially managing the program. And so I of course agreed and I moved into my little district office cubicle and I still got to teach three days a week. And then I had two days at the district office to mentor and coach and run the program. And so I would set up our master schedule and when teachers were struggling, I would go out and help with them.

And every Friday I had to put together a three hour professional development to like help make sure that my teachers were, you know, doing the best job that they could do. And I loved it. It was like so fun. And so after about a year of this, my boss said, people who work in my department have master's degrees. And I said, it's always been on my radar.

I just can't decide on which one I want. And she said, you need to get an administration because it opens the most doors. And I said, okay, like that makes sense. It does. And she said, plus like, I think it would be good for what you're doing, right?

Like you're essentially, she kept telling me, you're just, you're already doing the job. You're already doing it. And so I was like, yeah, I love this. So I went into administration and she just kept saying like, oh, you're doing it. You're doing it.

You're doing it. And so she convinced me to apply through the admin pool. And I was hired, keeping in mind my entire experience was elementary. And I was hired to be an assistant principal at junior high. And your little daylights out of me, it's challenging.

Like I can do this. Yeah. Like, no, I love this. I love it. And like the first week of that job, I was like, why have I done?

This is so hard. And I hated it. It was so difficult. My boss, oddly enough, retired the same time that I left the district office to go out and do admin work. And she called me like in October and she said, so how's it going?

And I said, it's really hard. I mean, I didn't want to be a total baby about it. So I just said, you know, it's really, really hard. And she said, oh, I know I hated being principal. It was the worst job I ever had.

And I said, what, why did you do it? And she just laughed. And she said, oh, I knew it would be good for you. And I knew you'd be good at it. You needed to do this.

And I was so mad at her. I was like, I had this job that I loved. It was the perfect fit for me. I was doing everything I possibly could have wanted. And you convinced me to come do this thing that is awful.

Like, all I do is like break up fights and take away marijuana and call angry parents and like deal with teachers who are annoyed. Like there was nothing fun about this. So, but we powered through and I did that job for three years. And I cried at least once a week. Bless my husband's heart.

I mean, we were fairly newlywed at that point. During that during that time, what was what was the hardest thing? The conflict. Okay. I tend to be like, very positive person.

I don't like conflicts. I wasn't prepared for the level of like the immense which parents would push back when I felt like I was trying to help their kid. The first time I called a parent because I found marijuana in her child's backpack and had talked to him and he had broken down and told me that he was feeling depressed. And that the only thing that helped. And, you know, and I called the mom and just said, Hey, you just found marijuana in your son's backpack.

And she immediately was just like, how do you know it's his? You don't know that it's I mean, she's got very defensive. And I said, he admitted to me that it was his said he's really struggling with depression and like really has a hard time. And I said, I need you to come down and give him. And she was like, I'm at work.

I can't come get him call somebody else. And I was just like, and I'm sitting there thinking if someone had called my mom when I was in junior high and told her that they found marijuana in my backpack, it would have been a very different experience. Right. But I was I was dealing with people who were carrying things that I knew nothing about. And I was not prepared for the level of emotion and anger that came with that.

And I was also wholly unprepared for the awful things that kids both experience and get into at that age. And it was very eye opening to me. Yeah. Yeah. What was what was the the way through what got you through that when you're experiencing these really hard things?

I mean, there would be these fleeting moments, right, where I would build these relationships with kids. And that was the one part I did like about it is I would see kids in the hallway crying or I would just know that they were having these struggles. And I did some degree have the time to like bring them in my office and have a real conversation about it. You don't have that luxury when you're a teacher, right? There are 30 other kids who need your attention right then.

And so I remember it was the first day of school and I was walking down the hall and I just saw this poor little seventh grader with like tears streaming down his cheeks. And I just said, we went to my office and he just cried. And he was like, I'm so scared. I miss elementary school, you know, and I was like, oh, I can, I can really kind of dig down and help kids at a different level and in a different way than I was trying to help them when I was a classroom teacher. Yeah.

What do you what do you feel like your your biggest takeaways were in growth that you experienced in that that provided you a better baseline for when you became a principal? Yeah. I just think realizing I think teenagers get a bad rap. Yeah. And I think that I went in there thinking like they're all they're all just kind of like jerks and they all do they want.

And I learned that there's such babies like they're so little and they're putting on these like tough fronts, but really they just they just want to be loved. And most of the kids that are causing them really hard things don't feel loved or have life experiences that have really kicked them into survival mode and they don't know what else to do. And so I just learned to listen and not jump to conclusions and to just really love them in a different way and in a different level. And now when I see teenagers like, you know, on the streets or at the movies, like just like, hey, what's up? And usually they're very friendly, like they can look really tough, but they're usually very friendly.

And I love them. I think I think a lot of it too is just if if you bring the assumption that they're going to be terrible and bad and you bring that to the interaction, it's going to be in part of self-fulfilling prophecy, because you're going to bring that kind of energy to the conversation as well. So you did that for three years and then what was the next step? And then I was appointed to be a principal. I got appointed at a board meeting on like March, I don't know, seventh, eighth, somewhere in there of 2020.

Oh, no way. Yeah. Holy, we were just starting to hit it at that point. It was like a week before the world shut down. And so I mean, and the right you finish out your year.

So I was finishing the year at the junior high before I really jumped into this. And yeah, a week later, the world shut down. And I was a first year principal, trying to figure out how to like make people wear masks and do contact tracing. And it was it was crazy. It was crazy.

Where was that first gig? Um, with elementary in West Alley. And I was also pregnant with my first child. Oh, man. So yeah, that is complex.

Yes. Which, again, back to my best laid plans, right? So, OK, the plan was to like get married and have a million kids. And then I got married at 29 and I'm sorry, I got married at 31. We met 29.

And after I did my first year at the junior high, which was really an intern year, right? I was like, OK, I get through this. Like, we're going to have baby. I'll quit. And then like, we didn't have baby.

And again, looking back, like the junior high was not the right time for me. Like, I've I've rarely eat. There's just too much going on. I think trying to like successfully complete pregnancy being a junior high assistant principal, like shout out to anyone that's done it. I don't know how you could possibly like the level of stress, the level of everything else.

So it was, again, not my plan, but that's how that's how the cookie crumbled and it all worked out. So, yeah, I was pregnant with my first child and was sick the entire nine months. And I'm like the first year principal trying to figure this out. There was only one other person in my entire district that was a first year principal that same year. And so, I mean, we really kind of leaned heavily on each other.

But that was wild. Yeah, it was wild. Because there's not nobody could prepare you for that because no one had ever experienced that before. So it's not like you could go lean on somebody else that could help you navigate it. They're just trying to figure it out, too.

It was so hard. Yeah. And I mean, everybody was had different ideas. It was just it was a very crazy. How long did you need to be in?

That's just not one year. So again, like your best laid plans, which is funny because at the very beginning of the movie, like I said, as I was watching it through this one, Dr. Watson, when it introduces him, he's like riding. He's like basically riding the rails, but in a carriage, right? So you see like the people that are driving in the people carriage and he's like on some little, I don't know, he's like, I just finished service and the Her Majesty's 66th Regiment and I was just coming back and he doesn't use the word deployment, but essentially that's what he's coming.

Yeah. And he's like, I'm just looking to find some quiet and a peaceful place where I can just, you know, do my own thing. And he had these plans. And then he runs into this little girl and gets thrown into this adventure like he didn't mean to. And so I again, remember, I hate administration.

Like it's not fun. And so when I found out I was pregnant with my daughter, I was like, sweet, this might make it out of Dodge. Like nobody is going to judge me if I walk away from this profession to raise my baby. And that was the plan. Like I was just like, no, I'm gonna quit.

And this is how I get out. And then I was like, I mean, I already have like, you know, 12 years in a profession that offers pensions. And so I said, I just want to be able to at least keep my foot in the door. Maybe I should look at a halftime contract somewhere. Well, the school district I was in at the time didn't offer halftime administrative contracts, but the neighboring school district did.

And so I submitted an application there, really kind of thinking I was still just going to quit and stay home. But I thought, well, like, it'll be an option. I just like to keep all the options open. So I submitted my application and had my first interview and found out in said interview that they were opening an art integration magnet school. And in my, in the district I was currently working in, they have administrators for those types of schools slated out a year or two in advance.

And so I had zero expectation that there would be an administrative position available at the school. But I thought if maybe I got really, really lucky, I could be like a halftime assistant principal to supplement something there, you know, be involved in some way. And what I didn't know behind the scenes is that one of my mentors, one of my main mentors, who had also oddly enough been my eighth grade history teacher in administration, was good friends with the superintendents. And I had no idea of any of this, but the superintendent called his friend and was like, hey, we just interviewed somebody from your school district who has an arts background. And so to me more about this connection, how many, what are the names of these folks?

Okay, so Bill Kenley, was my eighth grade history teacher. And then in the school district I was in, his entire job, he was the director of talent development. So he recruited potential administrators. He went through like a year, they called it the emerging leader academy. So you went through a year of like evening classes, trainings, where he would kind of, you know, build you up and get you ready to apply.

And then once you were in, you had monthly meetings with him and his counterpart to like make sure that you were being supported and trained. I love that. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like rate and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you.

We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality. He was your eighth grade history teacher and what school was that at? Hunter Junior High, Go Hawks. And so, and I had no idea that he even knew anyone in Jordan district, but he and the superintendent were college roommates. And so- Oh, is this Dr.

Godfrey? Okay, do you mean my connection to Dr. Godfrey? No, I don't. He was my eighth grade English teacher.

Stop. He absolutely was. Like eighth grade was a big year because I had him as an English teacher. And then my history teacher was Mr. Coyle.

And he had me do a mock trial and had me assigned as an attorney. And that is the reason I became an attorney. So eighth grade was a big year for me. And I still obviously have a good relationship with Dr. Godfrey.

He's amazing. He is amazing. So he connects with Bill. Calls Bill and was like, hey, I just interviewed somebody. And I had told nobody in Granite that I was even interviewed because I didn't, you know, and so- Was Bill like, what are you doing?

Bill calls me. And I'm like, why is Bill Campbell calling me at 530 in the evening? So I pick it up, you know, and he's just like, so I know someone in Jordan who mentioned the day and I start panicking. Oh, yeah. Because I'm like, who else knows?

Who else knows? And he's like, I really don't think anyone else knows. And he didn't mention that the friend that he knew in Jordan was the super, like he didn't say anything. Oh, is it Dr. Godfrey?

This was the superintendent in the school district? No, he left that out. And so he said, so just tell me, I'm just trying to help you figure out like what you want. You know, obviously, I love Granite, but I just want people to be happy. And so I just said, Bill, I'm expecting a baby.

I'm just trying to figure out what my life looks like. And he just kind of said, so would you be interested in being connected to this arts school? And I said, 100%. I said, I know they probably already have their principal figured out, but if there's an AP position, you know, and he just said, Okay, so that would that would be like your favorite choice. And I said, for sure.

And so in my second interview, that was what I mentioned, the halftime thing. And they all kind of looked surprised. And I was like, you do offer halftime contracts, right? And they all just kind of said, Yeah, no, we do. And what I didn't know is that they were already talking about offering me the position as the principal.

And so in talking with Bill, he didn't tell me anything, but he was just kind of like, I think you need to be honest, if you're really interested in this art school, I think you need to be honest. And so I called, who is now my boss, her name is Lisa and just said, you know, I know I said I was looking for halftime, I'm really looking for the right fit. And I mean, long story shorter, I guess, because it's not short at this point, but they ended up offering me this position as the principal at this arts integration magnet school. And I just felt like it merged everything that I had ever wanted. When I called my husband, I said, I feel like this is weird, because I've just I've tried to leave education so many times, like I tried to leave when I was like, going to law school, I'm trying to leave now.

And I just feel like it's not the right thing for me. And then I told him, I said, they offered me the art school. And he was like, you have talked about opening an art school since I met you, you would be crazy to turn this down. So you know, we thought about it for a few days, but he was just like, you, you need to do this. And so we're starting our sixth year.

But even after I had my baby, I was wholly unprepared for how difficult it would be to leave her. And so as my starting date loomed closer and closer, I just started thinking, how can I gracefully get out of this position that I have committed to? Like, how can I not do this job? Because I loved Granite, I loved being there, I knew everybody, I was friends with everybody. And I knew no one in Jordan, like, I didn't know a soul.

And that was a really scary leap for me. But I didn't want to. And I just kept thinking, I just want to quit. And I just want to three weeks before I went back to work, my mom had a neighbor who had a daughter with severe disabilities. When she was born, they told her she would live past the age of two.

And she died at the age of 44. And her mom had cared for her all of these years. And after she passed away, she said to my mom, what's Mary Ann doing with her baby? She doesn't know. And she said, I need somebody to take care of.

And so my childcare fell into place. And so then I was like, well, I can't blame it on childcare. So it's all of these things. And I'm a very creative person. And I could not think of a way to get out of this job.

So I started it. I ended up loving it. It's still really difficult. I tell my boss all the time, if they move me, then I'll just resign. Because I, in fact, still don't love being principal.

It's still a lot of conflict. It's still a lot of hard conversations that keep me up at night. And I stress about them. And I worry about them. And I would be wholly unsuccessful at this job if I didn't work with the team that I do.

But it's again, a title in school, very low income. Our scores have increased beyond anything I ever even thought possible. Our kids are learning. Our kids are happy. They're doing well.

We're not perfect. But it is so invigorating to be part of something that really feels like it matters. And to be working with people who have different skills. And just like in the movie, right? Like, it was funny you talked about attention spans, because I have never seen someone with worse ADHD than Basil of Baker Street.

Like he is Jeff. He's all over the place. And that is me, right? Like, I tell people all the time, like, this job will give you ADHD, whether you had it or not, before you started, it will give you ADHD, because there are always a million problems with your juggling. And so as I'm watching, I'm like, that's me.

Like, I'm that guy. Like, all over the place. You think I'm not paying attention, but then like, I'll have observations. But also, like, nothing is organized. Like, I rely on my team for that.

My team executes so many things. But yeah, So when you think about that with, like the movie, when we look at the dynamic that they had, right, with Basil and him kind of being over the map and him really needing, is it, it's a take on Watson, right? I'm trying to think what the, is this his name? Yeah, Dr. Dawson.

Dawson. Dr. Dawson. I can't remember what his name is. You're right.

Dr. Dawson doing that. And then the little girl, Olivia, right? In reality, like the three of them together are what make it happen. Basil could not have done it on his own.

And I do think it's a fun dynamic to see throughout all of Sherlock Holmes lore, right? That like, Dr. Watson and Sherlock Holmes do find this way to really counterbalance. Everybody sees Sherlock Holmes as a brilliant guy, but in reality, like he had to have the grounding nature of Dr. Watson to really make it work.

For you, you step into this position in this, I mean, really kind of ideal situation, right? With being in our school. How, was it difficult at all for you to find a way to trust your team to be able to offload things onto them? Did you feel like you had to hang onto things at first before you could? At first.

Yeah. At first. Some things, no, right? I have an instructional coach who knows more about teaching kids to read than I will ever know. And so things like that, not at all.

My other instructional coach is just, she's an incredible executor. And so sometimes I didn't even know I was delegating things to her. I would like, we would be meeting and I would say, wouldn't it be cool if like this happened? And the next thing I know she's created, wouldn't it be cool if, and she's like, here's the system, here's how it's done. And so, yeah, I think that's one thing that's really tricky for me is to let go, hardly enough, coming full circle.

Letting go of discipline has been really difficult for me. Letting my assistant principals take over discipline is really hard for me because I got so good at it. And so I, while I've had amazing assistant principals, that's one that's really difficult for me, especially if I have a relationship with the kid, right? Imagine your child does something dumb, like letting your neighbor handle that. That's some control that's difficult to let go of.

It's tough. How have you navigated that? Is it, because I think what's interesting about schools and school districts and administration is there's lots of parallels to just business in general. Because the reality is in your role where you're needing to do certain things and you have a certain role and needing to delegate that to other people, there's tons of similarities when I look at pretty much any business, the owner of the business versus the people they're putting in place to help run certain things in the business. How have you navigated that when you do need to distrust them to go do it, but at times knowing you need to step in and coach them more and help them?

So you don't go take over, right? Because that would be bad. But then to coach them and know when to coach them in the right moments, when to coach or when just to let it happen. Nicole Zajac Yeah. And that's a very nuanced thing, especially when you're dealing with people's children, right?

Especially when you're dealing with parents who may know me, right? And now all of a sudden, like my assistant principal is calling them and they're new to the building or they don't have previous relationship. And I've had assistant principals that were brand, brand new that I've trained. That's a little easier because then I can model the strategies that I like and I can model that for them and then do a slow release. When I've had people who are a little bit more seasoned and had kind of their own styles, I've just been really fortunate that they've all been really good.

So while it's difficult to let go, I have been able to, like sometimes I have to just like wring my fingers under the table so I don't jump in, right? But watch and then afterwards just kind of say, I maybe would have said that or maybe, you know, like just a heads up, I know you don't this background about this student, but you know. Yeah. It's interesting as you're talking about that, like we've got great attorneys here, very, very good practitioners. I get referrals.

I've been doing this a long time, so I'll get referrals. I don't do cases anymore. So my job is to manage the firm, drive cases here, you know, run all the business operations side of things. When I do get referrals, I have to give those to somebody else and sometimes it's somebody that I know very, very well. And when people reach out and say like, oh, this isn't going well, it's really easy for me to be like, oh, okay, well, let me take exactly what is happening here.

Let me tell you the advice about this case. Let me tell you how this should work. I'm gonna tell you about this commissioner and we'll see about opposing counsel. But if I do that, and I've really harmed my attorney's ability to execute on their job. And I've had to learn that the hard way because I've messed up sometimes, right?

Or have like, oh, it's so easy because I know this about this case or about this court, right? But taking the extra time to then talk to my team and say, hey, help me understand what's going on here. Let me give you some background knowledge, kind of like you just indicated. It goes a long way into building my trust with my team. Yeah, like, okay, Ryan's gonna have my back.

He's not gonna cut me out. I'm not gonna cut my knees out from underneath me, right? With a client that's bad. He's gonna like come and talk to me about it and then allow me to do to my job. And it's hard because it's hard to like, let that go sometimes because like, know this person that brought them in like, that's really hard.

It's so much better if you can do it effectively. I'm gonna read you a quote. Okay, you ready for this? Yes, not for the movies, the general one. Okay, do you know John Maxwell is John C.

Maxwell? He's a author, written a ton of books, public speaker. He's just amazing in the leadership space. Okay, like he is amazing. And one of the things he said, this is a very small quote from his book called the 17 indisputable laws of teamwork.

He said, one is too small a number to achieve greatness. And so how have you seen that be true? Because you said you love your team. How have you seen that be true for you guys to accomplish what you want to at your school? Oh, that is a really good question.

And I love that you said that because sometimes, and I don't think anyone has any kind of ill intent when they do this, but because I'm the principal, people tend to bring those compliments of like, your school is doing so well, you're doing such a great job. And I don't know how to diffuse that enough. Right? I think people think I'm just like false humility when I'm like, no, it's my team. It is really my team.

Like there, I could not go another school and replicate what I am doing. And what's unique about my team right now is our skill sets are also very different. And my assistant principal could not be more different from me. But we also could not be better teammates. Like, I love her.

And when you're aligned on the mission, then it's a lot easier to understand like, hey, we are, we're aligned, we're trying to accomplish the same thing. Maybe we go about different ways, we may have disagreements, but if we have mission alignment, now it's easier to weather that storm. So let's contrast that for a second. Okay. With Rattigan.

So tell me where you think it comes from with Rattigan to try to tell everybody that he's a mouse and that he refuses to acknowledge that he's a rat even though it's in his name. Right. And then one guy who accidentally calls him a rat gets fed at the cat. Yes. Now this obviously sounds like an extreme example, right?

But like, in what ways is that really emblematic sometimes of mistakes that leaders make? Ooh, that's a really good point. Yeah, I need a backstory on Rattigan. Right? Like that's the backstory I need.

Prequel here. Because up to this point, every character, like their best laid plans have been interrupted, right? Even Flavisham, the toy maker. There's no mom in this story. And Olivia is upfront about that because Basil is like, just go ask your mom to find him.

And she's like, I don't have a mom. Right? So that wasn't in their plan. Basil helping this little girl, like when he's not really a kid person, like that wasn't in his plan. Dr.

Watson getting erupted into this. Dr. Dawson getting erupted. That wasn't in his plan. And you can tell that somewhere along the way, like Rattigan's best laid plans also interrupted.

Like he's clearly not a happy human. And I think it speaks so much to how we respond when like controversy and adversity. He even says, I wrote this down, he's doing like a little monologue when he's first introduced. He sings a really great song too, by the way. But he wallows in his self-described, he says, like, I have experienced so much adversity.

But this, you know, I overcame it. And that's why I'm powerful. And that's why I'm so great. And so I think it's very telling that he has this complex about being a rat. He doesn't love himself.

He doesn't love who he is. He's chosen to take the adversity and blame it on other people. I also think it's interesting when he does at the point in the movie where he captures Basil and he's, you know, he's tricked him into his trap. He tears down Basil in such a way that like that's Basil, right? He's and I'm just watching this and I'm watching him like berate him and cut down every part of him that he knows really matters to Basil as a true bully would.

And I was watching that thinking somebody did that to him, or he believed that about himself. And he thinks the only way to fix it is to become powerful. And power is never satiated. And so he can't get enough. So it's interesting.

And he's projecting his own insecurities on Basil so that he can try to feel more powerful. Yes. I tear you down because it helps me feel better about who I am. And even though I'm telling you you're a fool and you're not a great detective and you're not that smart, like those are my fears. But I'm saying out loud.

But that's not you. And I think when people are not in the best version of themselves, when they're not self-aware of things they have, then I think ego gets in the way and we try to call ourselves a mouse when we're a rat. And it's okay to be a rat. Right? If you're a rat, it's okay to be a rat, right?

Like it just is. And but sometimes that's hard. Sometimes it's hard to accept our shortcomings. Sometimes it's hard to accept who we are. Sometimes it's hard to find the authenticity that exists.

But when you can, right, then Basil and Dr. Dawson and Olivia and Blavarshan, is that? Blavarsham. Blavarsham. That's right.

You see, like you say with the British accent, right? When they do, then much like we're saying, then they can achieve greatness. And something actually great can happen, not something terrific and horrible like Ratagind's trying to do. I think it's really interesting. I was surprised at how much I loved Olivia.

Ah, yes. Which you shouldn't be, right? Because you work with little kids and you have some little kids and you're like, wait a second, of course I love Olivia. But she is awesome. She really is.

And she's smart and she contributes. And I found it very funny. At one point, they go to a toy shop, right? It's not her dad's toy shop. They go to it.

They're chasing the bat because they're trying to find Ratagind and they know that that will really lead them to Ratagind. And they wind up in this toy shop. And I was watching it and both Dr. Dawson and Basil are essentially ignoring her, right? They're letting her tag along, but they're not.

And I'm thinking, she is the expert in the room right now. This five-year-old knows more about these toys than the two of you could possibly know combined. And you're overlooking her. And she, you know, I mean, she's still a kid. She plays with the toys and that causes some consternation for Basil of Baker Street.

But ultimately, she contributes quite a bit to the success of the story. You know, at one point, they crash into Big Ben. And Ratagind is about to push Basil like down the shaft of Big Ben. And, you know, she's the one that warns him. And I love her tenacity.

I love her, like, I'm not going to take no for an answer. And her confidence, right? You just opposed that with Ratagind, who is so insecure. She knows who she is. She also comes from a loving home.

But she has a confidence that radiates. It radiates to Dr. Gressen. It radiates to Basil. And because she is not willing to give up and because she has this confidence that they can be successful, they are successful.

Even when she's not, you know, big enough or strong enough, and she's a little kid to help in certain ways, she never stops trying, which I absolutely love about her. You know, and connecting that back to like not loving administration. I had somebody who told me like a year and a half in, just quit. Like, it doesn't matter. Just quit.

And I wanted to. And I'm really, really glad that I didn't, because even though it's like still a very stressful part of my life, the things I have learned and the experiences that I have had, I wouldn't trade them for anything. So I'm gonna read you another quote. It's from Jim Collins. Jim Collins wrote a book called Good to Great.

And he talks about level five leaders, which are like the ideal type of a leader, right? So just to give that preface, because it's the quotes about level five leaders. It says, level five leaders display a powerful mixture of personal humility and indomitable will. Okay, which I think is interesting, because we talk about juxtaposition, right? Things that may seemingly be the opposite.

It's kind of like what we're about here in Yes and Land, right? Yes and yes, you can be humble, and you can also have an indomitable will. How do you see that having played a role in your leadership in the school you're in? I love that. That's such a good question.

When I got to my school, we were in what we call TSI, targeted school improvement. And essentially, it means that our school had been performing in the bottom 5% of schools in the state. And if you are in TSI for more than three years, then you shift into what they call continuous school improvement, which essentially means the do they come in and do a full evaluation of every like, it's intense, nobody likes that. And after my second year there, we were staring down that barrel of like, if we can't get our scores up, we're going to be in big trouble. Now, to be clear, like half the schools in my district, you can be in TSI for any number of categories.

Like, if your low income kids are in the bottom 5%, then you can be in TSI. If your English learners are in the bottom 5%, you can be in TSI. If you're low income, if you're a special ed students, like so there are all these categories. Like most schools, like many schools, I should say, will find themselves like designated in TSI one point or another. And especially Title I.

Title I, it's like very common to be in TSI. It's also very difficult to get out of TSI. Like, it's a heavy, heavy left. And I genuinely was like, I don't know if we can do this. But I also knew we didn't have any other choice.

And so like, we rallied as a team and we accessed all of our resources. We met with our district data scientists. We signed up for every like training we possibly could. We, I mean, we were all in, we were committed and it was a team effort. So I had 12 people on this team that we were like, we're going to make this happen.

And we blew it up. And everyone was surprised, right? Nobody saw that coming, like not the district. I remember very distinctly the faculty meeting where I like stood up and was just crying. I was like, we did it.

We did it. We did it. The cool thing about that though, is that we have stayed out. Like it's one thing to get out, it's even more difficult to stay out. And I think that this component of like, we are not going to do that again.

Like we're not going to find ourselves in that situation has definitely been something that has become kind of a core value of our school. I'm also very good at, and that is one of my strengths on our team, right? I am good at not taking over and finding ways to get things done. Whether that be like finding funding or like I'm a good networker. And so like, I do think that that is a component that I bring to the table.

So it's interesting that you say that. And I have one dream that I have yet to achieve, but I like mark my words. I'm going to make this happen. Well, let's hear it. I want to take my kids to Disneyland, right?

You haven't taken them to Disneyland yet? No, no, no, not my personal children. Like my students at my school. So like a certain select number or like, can you tell me more? So Mike Haynes, who is our mutual connection, the director of the foundation, he and I have had many conversations about, you know, one thing that keeps kids in poverty is a lack of experiences.

Most kids who grow up in the poverty cycle don't go without or or like they don't leave a five mile radius of where they grow up. And so like one of my core things that I do for my kids, I really try to provide experiences for them so they know how to think outside the box. Right. Like they need to know what options are out there. And having a connection, my current assistant principal grew up in extreme poverty.

She grew up in Compton. And she said that when she was in eighth grade, like something, they got to go to Maui. I don't know how that happened. That must have been a different time. But she said, I remember going to Maui with my school group.

And I thought to myself, I am coming back here one day. And, you know, she like her older brother was getting involved, like she all the odds were stacked against her. But because of that field trip, she was like, I am going to college and I'm going to have a career and I am going to be able to afford to go to Maui on vacation. So that's kind of my thing is like, I like to provide experiences for my kids because I want them to have those things. And being an art school, we have a full functioning band, right?

They're quite good. Like I know you wouldn't think an elementary band is like fun to listen to, but they really are fun. Like they're good. Okay. A little fun.

Yeah. Okay. I'll do this or that. Okay. And then we're ready to go.

Okay. And you know, if it's been a point in time during any of this, you decide to bust out a rap girl, you're only here for it. Like, I don't know how to take it up for you well, but like, don't be shy. Okay. Okay.

So here's where this or that. Basil or Dr. Dawson? Ooh. Ooh, that's so hard.

Can we just say Dr. Dawson? I love, I love a reporter. I love somebody who like doesn't need the glory. I love somebody who is just like, I am gonna contribute what I know how to contribute, but I'm like not gonna go out about it.

Yeah. You know, before when I was writing this, 100% I was Basil. Throughout this conversation, you talked about the things that he was doing, especially like recognizing that Olivia could contribute and then he's helping to make this stuff happen. And then the support that he's giving, my answer changed. Like it's Dr.

Dawson for me too. Yeah. He's fantastic. Okay. Big Ben or Buckingham Palace?

Buckingham Palace. I mean, magical, you know, there's something about a palace. Oh, 100%. What are you gonna do? Yeah.

That's for sure. London Fog or a clear London note? Ooh, as much as I like love a good view, like fog is so iconic to London and like it's so mysterious and just has such a, I think I'd have to go with fog. Wait. Okay.

A detective hat, otherwise known as a deer stalker hat. Right, two outcomes. I had to look it up. Okay. Deer stalker or trucker hat?

Ooh, deer stalker. Okay. Yeah. Recess duty or lunch duty? Ooh, recess duty.

I love to be outside with the kids. Sure. I should talk about being a PE teacher. I was like, oh, that's probably an easy one for you. Field trip or surprise assembly?

Ooh, that's a good one. Like I love working in a good assembly, but I'm going to have to go with field trip because of the experience component. Like there are things that I can't do in an assembly that a field trip can do. Yeah. Totally fair.

Okay. Now this one might be real controversial. So let's throw this out there. Right? Everybody buckle up.

Everybody has strong opinions on this one too. I know I'm not seeing it. Whiteboard or chalkboard? Ooh. Okay.

Whiteboard is way more functional. Chalkboard is just so classic. And there's something about that feeling of like brushing the chalk off between your hands. But you know, if I'm looking at what's best for kids, whiteboard. Okay.

Whiteboard every time. Yeah. Whiteboards are way easier and better. Let's go into some, we're going to go general pop culture. Okay.

Okay. You ready for this? Yeah. Hit me up. 90s hip hop or modern hip hop?

90s hip hop. No battle. Yeah. No battle. No battle.

Karaoke or freestyle? Karaoke. Morning person or night owl? Oh, both. I'm more of a night owl.

I like to get up early. Like it's satisfying to get up and like get your day going. But I just, I love the quiet of like being the only person awake and doing whatever I want. At night? Okay.

See, and what's interesting you say that is to some extent, and that's actually why I like super early morning. I like getting up when like the world is not yet awake. It is all to myself. And I can go get in a workout. I can go get some work done.

I'll start doing work. And I'll read. And it's just like, I don't know what it is when I think the rest of the world is not awake. I love that time. It's free.

It's just like I sound this early. Yeah. It's just me. Not much is interesting because I don't normally like being alone. Like solo travel for the birds.

I hate it. I did it like really for the first time. This last, I was like a few months back. Oh really? It was D.C.

before my wife got there. I was on. Okay. Oh my goodness. No thank you.

No thank you. It's horrible. I guess like maybe that's gotta work out some issues. You're a charitotic Korean. No, I did Disneyland once by myself when I was studying for the LSAT.

So I had like a mission, right? So I loved it because I was there by myself, but I was like doing something. But yes, I'm with you there. It's more fun with people. Okay.

Here's a rapid fire. Favorite Disney movie? Cinderella. Favorite Disney song? Ooh.

Okay. Animated or live action? Give me both. Okay. So there is a very, speaking of fringe Disney movies, there is a live action.

It's not really live. It's from like the 60s. It's called The Happiest Millionaire. It's Leslie and Warren and I can't remember his name. They actually star in two Disney movies.

So there's that one and there's the one and only genuine original family band, which is probably my favorite like people Disney movie. But it's called Are We Dancing? And it's like a very like romance song. But I love it. It's very just pretty and simple and well written.

So we're gonna have to like put a link in the descriptions to this episode for this song for and I'm gonna have to go listen to a director. I have no idea what this song is. I'm just gonna have to totally check it out. Very out there. Yeah.

Yeah. Favorite Disney princess? Cinderella. Makes sense. That's her movie.

Favorite Disney hero or heroine? Mulan. I get that one a lot and that's still for me. When I think about favorite Disney hero, Mulan all day long. She's amazing.

Such a good story. I love that movie too. Totally remarkable for me. Love it. Favorite ride at Disneyland?

Teacups. Teacups? Teacups? I haven't gotten that one yet. Teacups.

Is this nostalgia of it? I think a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I do love a good spin. But like everybody can ride them.

Yeah, it's probably nostalgia. But like, no, I love the teacups. I teased my dad a little bit. But I didn't really go on teacups much as a kid. Because spinning doesn't do well for him.

Makes him feel pretty sick. So we didn't really go. I always tease him. We never win. He's like, oh, Ryan, we sometimes win.

And like, it's true. Sometimes if I was telling him we never win, I'm like, dad, I never got to go on teacups. Now I'm going as much as I want. I do enjoy it with the kiddos. Especially when they like want me to spin it real fast.

So they sit back and have dad spin it. It's a good thing. Favorite subject to teach? Music. Which I would have guessed after a conversation.

Totally makes sense. What we like to end with is three actionable takeaways. Three things that you would recommend somebody could put into effect today or this week on the topic that we're looking at. One is bring what you have to the table and be confident in what you can bring to the table. But also like you have to work at that, right?

Number two, you can't do it by yourself. And you have to choose, you have to have a team. And you have to recognize that the team all pulls equal weight, right? There's not one person who gets to be more important than anybody else. And I think the third one that I would take away is when things don't go as planned, there's a good reason for that.

And it's going to make sense later on. And just trust the call sign. Love it. Absolutely fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you for having me. This is so cool. And of the last talk, you've got me super inspired to think about getting Majestic's Band to Disneyland. That'd be so magical. It would be magical for that to happen for those kids.

So stay tuned, everybody. We're going to see what we can do. Sweet. Thanks. Thanks, Ray.

As you lead this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt. And you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.