I grew up in public housing in Cincinnati, the projects. And she said this in front of the class. I remember thinking, is she talking to me? Did she really say this? That little painfully shy kid who was abused and teased and bullied became the king.

But that's one of the things I love about Lion King is that we're all scarred. We're all Mufasa. We're all Simba. It's all about tapping into the different parts of yourself. And we get to define who we are.

When it happens with Simba, it's something there's a cut. There's a break in your life. And there's a before, the event, and an after. I mean, I was pure love as a kid. I was naive.

And no matter what happened to me, I always saw the bright side. I was born with an optimism. Welcome to Yes And Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. All right.

Welcome, everybody, to our next episode of Yes And Land. We are very excited today. We are joined by somebody who has had a storied career. Alton Fitzgerald White, who played Mufasa on Broadway for more than 4,000 performances, which is just a feat in and of itself. But that's, of course, not the only thing to his story.

He has many things to his story, which we will dive into today. He started from the projects in Cincinnati and struggled with some different things in his childhood, which we will kind of go over, and found his way to playing an amazing role, but also to doing a lot of other amazing things. And now today, no longer performing as Mufasa on Broadway, but he is an author of an amazing book called My Pride, right? Alton, that's what we got. That's what it is.

Do you have that there with you? Let's hold that up. My Pride Mastering Life's Daily Performance. Which is a must-read. I read it.

I read the whole thing and just loved it. I actually consume my books on Audible. He reads it himself. And as you might imagine, since he played Mufasa on Broadway, he has a terrific voice and a terrific reading voice, which he actually does talk about in the book as well, which was not necessarily something you thought was a great strength when you were growing up, but we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that, right?

And now he does public speaking and presenting and does things like singing with the Boston Pops, which he was just doing last week. And so just really excited to have this great conversation to learn from somebody with so much life experience, who hopefully today is going to be a little bit like Mufasa for us and help him part some wisdom today. Ryan, you have forgotten me. Oh, see, that's exactly why. Yeah, see, now I need to cut that, right?

And I need to put that as my ringtone or at night when I'm getting ready, I have my meditation before I go to bed. Like, that's what I need, right? Oh, it's amazing. What a great lines, right, from Lion King, both the original movie and then of course the Broadway version, which is just a favorite for many people, certainly was a favorite for mine growing up. I was born in 82.

And so Lion King was like the heart of my youth and was just such an important thing for me that I just, I love the Lion King, like so many kids in my generation. So, well, before we start diving into you playing Mufasa on Broadway, you know, take us back to a little bit about your youth. Did you say that you were born in 1982? Yes, born in 82. This is the year I graduated high school.

My son, my child. But hey, you know, once we're this age, you know, we're about the same, right? It does. I was going to say, you know, once you're about 40, like 40s, 50s, like it's all the same, right? It's like it blends together.

So you, but you, you know, when you graduated high school, 82, so you experienced the 80s, right? Through and through some great things from the 80s. So I'm a little biased. What's your opinion about the greatest decade of music? What would you say that is?

I'm biased, but 80s for me, because like this, when I was really coming to age, we had all the great dance music, feel good music, music to make you want to move. They were just starting to like, you know, be like more socially conscious music coming up. But for the most part, a lot of it was the British invasion. There wasn't a live instrument to be found. It was all synthesizers, but it all like tickled your, tickled your brain and made you want to move.

So that's one of my favorite periods. I, again, I'm biased. It's the 90s for me because that's when I started listening to my own music. So my, my parents were not a lot older, but a little older when they had me. So they were more 60s and 70s, which I have a great appreciation for, but they didn't really transition much into the 80s.

And then I start listening when I'm, you know, eight, nine, 10, and it's the 90s. And then suddenly you have, you know, all the wonderful things that come out of the 90s. So for me, I'm like totally biased. I love 90s music. I think so much came from the 90s, but I will say, an example of like the kind of couple of groups that you love from the 90s.

Well, interestingly enough, I was actually going to talk to you about this. One that I loved so much was Boys to Man. And in part because of the vocal harmonies they have, but also their style. Because I believe Elton that when you were a young lad, you liked to dress a little bit nicer. If I'm not mistaken.

Yeah. You dress for everything. Everything was an occasion. Yeah. And I was the same way.

I loved their style. And so when I was in junior high school, I was a kid dressing in button down shirts and slacks. When other kids were, you know, shorts and t-shirts. And so I definitely got teased for that a little bit. I was that guy in high school too who wore a tie and a blazer with jeans.

They'd be like, why are you so formal? I'm like, well, I just discovered GQ magazine in my mid teens. So I was like, wow, it's a chance to be individual. Because as men, we don't have that many options. You know, a haircut, a mustache, no face, hairless.

Well, it was really, really up to kind of your personality. And I see that you're hungover. Because dude, every time I've met you, you've been sharply dressed. So good for you. I appreciate that.

I have always enjoyed dressing up. There's just something about dressing up that makes me feel a little bit sharper. It feels a little bit more like, OK, I'm professional. I can do this. Kind of like empowers me, so to speak.

People tease me, but I actually like wearing a suit. I think it's fun. That's great. I think it's comfortable. When I mentor kids who are about auditioning, because auditioning is tough.

You can have all the time in the world, but not everybody audition. I always tell kids, wear whatever makes you feel like a million bucks. It's how you feel is the most important thing. Right? Make sure it's appropriate for the occasion.

But if it makes you feel like a million bucks, that's what you wear. Because confidence is key, right? Yeah. I think that's great advice. I think that advice applies as well for somebody going into an interview.

You do need to understand what that particular job should look like as far as that goes. But you do want to be comfortable, because a lot of times people will get in their head about it. You know, interestingly enough, I actually learned that when I was trying to apply for my first job. My brother, who's a year and a half older than I, he and I were up for the same job. We call a sweeper at an elementary school, right?

So you have the gender, and then they hire these teenage kids to be sweepers. We both went in for an interview. I dressed in a shirt and tie. He dressed in just casual wear. Afterwards, the feedback was they hired him, because that was more of what they were looking for.

And I was a little bit too formal. And I was like, well, I guess I didn't understand the assignment. Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But still, you did your thing.

You know, it's about making your choice. I did. I was. Yep. And then, you know, a few months later, I applied for a different sweeper job.

And that person's personality probably matched mine better because then I got that job. And I dressed the same way. So it was great. It all came around. So let's take us back to you growing up in Cincinnati.

And, you know, take us just through a little bit of that. I mean, there's certainly a lot in anybody who's listening. You need to like read the entire book because there's so much more about understanding about where Alton came from and what things really shaped who he is. But give us a little bit of a snippet of what life was like for you growing up initially and some of the challenges you faced. I grew up in public housing in Cincinnati, the projects.

Youngest of seven kids. The only boy in the household. So myself and my father were the only men in the house. And it was really challenging being raised by women. It served me later in my life.

But as a kid, I was teased about it. When I would get into a fight, as all kids do, I would go get the big brother to defend them. And I went to get a sister. So I was teased about that as well. And as a result, I was raised to be a very polite kid, very mannerable kid, which again, served me later.

But it was also a little bit effeminate because I had such a heavy female influence, which also served me because girls always liked me. Teachers always loved me because I had that – I had kind of a built-in strength, but I had a nice openness about myself that was attractive to people. But again, I was teased by the boys about that because the girls were just naturally attracted to me. So there was a lot of stuff going on. My father unfortunately suffered from alcoholism.

So the only other person in my house would look like me. He was an alcoholic. And I often felt like I was competing with the alcohol for his attention, and the alcohol would win. So I really kind of felt like I was on my own. I'm really grateful that I was attracted to order because home was so chaotic.

You know, with an alcoholic parent, when you open the door, you don't know what you're going to get. Are they going to be sober? And when my father was sober, he was glued to the TV. And you know, we all tiptoed around thinking that that would affect his drinking. And then sometimes I'm homeless thinking, okay, he's probably watching TV, and he would be on a vendor.

And it's like, so dealing with that kind of inconsistencies made school really important to me, really attractive. I loved the order. I loved showing up on time. I loved bringing in my assignment. I loved the validation that I got from teachers doing a good job.

And I'm so grateful that somehow I was attracted to that kind of validation as opposed to being like the other kids. Because I can never be like the other kids. I knew I was different. I knew that I was sensitive. I knew that I was an artist even before I had the words to describe it.

And those are all things I was teased about that again later served me. And thank goodness teachers saw and helped to bring out me. What do you think the difference was for you in that? Because what we see, I think sometimes unfortunately happen in those situations because we all have this innate sense and need to belong. Yeah.

And that sense of belonging is one of the core human needs. So sometimes what will happen is- Especially as kids. We just want to be a part of a group. We want to be accepted. That's a very important time.

And I think sometimes what happens is then that's why certain kids will get involved in the wrong things like games. For you, what was that difference of that you found your sense of belonging with getting the praise from the teachers and doing great work there and that kind of stuff as opposed being influenced for doing things that would have been more negative, that would have gotten you into trouble? What do you think was kind of the key for you? I really feel like it's sort of like my destiny to be totally honest, Ryan, because I tried to be a bad kid. I tried to do stuff and I would always get caught.

And I realized earlier that other kids can do that. Some other boys can be bad and do this and do that. I couldn't get away with it. My higher power was like, no, this is not your path. So I was rejected in those ways.

And again, looking back, I'm so grateful. I was pulled to like, because as a kid wanting to belong and looking for validation anywhere you can get it, I wasn't really getting it from home. My father was doing this thing. My mother, who was one of my soulmates, was overwhelmed with having all the kids and my father. And I will say that in spite of my father's alcoholism, there was tremendous love.

So I never not felt loved. But as a little boy, a little black boy in particular, I needed validation. And when I got from the teachers, I was like, who cares? I'm getting to something that I need that I don't even have words for yet. And that propelled me to be a fantastic student throughout my entire school years.

So I think part of it was just my destiny. Because I tried. I tried to be a bad kid because I wanted to be a part of a group, wanted to be accepted. But I was always isolated and like, okay. And that's when my fantasies and my dreams really, really took over.

You know? And you were pulled and called to this stuff that you ultimately ended up doing, right? Because memory serves, one of the things you talked about was finding kind of private times and even a closet to sing. And if memory serves, too, you may have even learned some dances. I don't know if it was from Michael Jackson.

But yeah, tell us about that. So you know, in your being called to something or kind of where your destiny was taking you, talk us through how that started to evolve with you feeling drawn to the arts and the singing and dancing. Well, I'm grateful that as a family, we would watch television. We listened to the radio together when we all cleaned the house. We had the radio blasting.

And it was a station that played all kinds of music. Pop, rock, jazz, country, of course, the Motown sound, everything, which influences my singing to this day. There was that. We also watched TV. And TV was like my best friend.

When I didn't have friends to play with, I would watch my favorite shows, Gilligan's Island, all the after school stuff. But at night, we would watch variety shows, which really sort of saved my life because I could see my favorite performers. And then I could see them be interviewed after they performed and see that they spoke so well that they were intelligent. They were not just performers. They were they seem to be well-rounded people.

And I thought, I want to be like that. So they became my first role model. And I don't know any young black boy in the 60s who didn't want to be Michael Jackson or one of the Jackson Five. So we would watch, say we watched the Ed Sullivan show. And the Jackson Five would be on there.

And I could pick up choreography really easily because I was so hungry for it. And I would go to the storage closet, which was the only place I had to myself. I put on these big concerts. And pretend I was Michael Jackson. And my father cleaned buildings for a living.

This big thing called a buffer. The big circular thing with the smaller circle in the middle. This is a perfect platform. The top of that was my stage. I would take the cord and that was my microphone.

And I would step down and sing to the girls in the audience all in silence. I didn't know that I could sing. When I did start to sing, it wasn't because I knew I sounded good. I loved the sensation of singing. I loved how it made me feel.

So what started off as a fantasy eventually became what I was doing for a living. So again, I'm grateful that instead of going to fighting against the grain and going, no, I'm going to be accepted by the bad kids because I so desperately want to be a part of them. I'm going to honor my body, honor my mind, and take that energy elsewhere. And that's where TV and radio and the arts really came into play and really helped to save me. Yeah.

What was the inflection point for you or the experience or experiences that helped bring that to life? So you're starting to feel this and you're doing it, but you're doing it in silence. And you're not actually that loud. When did that finally that flip that switch turn on where it's like, oh, I actually can do this. I actually can sing.

I actually could perform. Oh, man. I joined the church choir and I was so terrified of being in front of anybody. I mean, really. When I talk about it, I feel those feelings again of like, oh my God, I can't imagine ever sharing this with anybody because it was my secret.

But I used to usher it at my church and I would kind of scope the choir out and see if it was safe. And then I found out that they would take anybody. You didn't have to audition. I thought, oh, wow, I can finally sing with other people. So I joined the choir.

And after I joined, they were like, well, you know, at some point everybody has to do a solo. It's like, I'll worry about that later. You go around the whole choir, they get to me and I'm like, I'll pass. I'm good. They come back around again.

They're like, Alton, you have to do this. And I was like, I can't. They're like, you have to. And I mean, the choir, the choir teacher was so patient with me. I mean, I would I refuse to sing in front of anybody.

I would wait till everybody left and sing with just her. And eventually it went from a whisper to singing louder and singing louder. And she goes, now you got to sing with the choir because I sang the lead and they backed me up. And I remember that day came and at this point, everybody in the choir is like, really, dude? Because nobody can understand how you feel.

But they were like, what's the big deal? It was a huge deal to me. Because at that point, I was being teased and bullied about so many things in my young life. If my secret gets out and I'm teased about this, I don't know what I'll do. I might break.

And I remember finally kind of whispering through it. They were like, really? We waited for this? And I was like, OK. But I waited through the door.

But then came the Sunday morning. And I remember not sleeping the night before thinking how am I going to listen to other people? I don't know. I kind of trust the choir at this point. And I got up there and they called my name.

And I remember just looking at the ceiling and kind of like sort of closing my eyes, doing the best I could. And it was over. There were some amens. There were some flaws. And a woman that I really trusted who led the children ushers came up to me with this look on her face, Ryan.

She was like, out and wild. I was like, what? What? Did I not do well? She was like, your voice, the quality of your voice.

I didn't know what she was talking about. But she was like, you've got something special. I was like, really? And that was what I needed. Like one person that I trusted and the look on her face, the way she responded to my voice made me wow, like this thing I love might actually love me as well.

And then the journey became how do I get out of the way of it? How do I not go over my fear? There is no going over. How do I work through this fear and get to the other side and find a gift that this is? And then just to practice, you know, humming around the house.

Humming around friends and going, OK, I've got to release the shame. And eventually, the next time I did a solo, I was ready. And then at that point, I was in junior high. And they always needed, you know, you do a spring festival and a winter festival. You know, the choir would do some stuff.

And it was always female solo, male solo. And the male soloist was a year older than me. So in my last year of junior high, they needed a guy. And I was like, I think I might be able to do this. So I auditioned, but I kind of went through the same process as now with junior high.

It's a whole other thing. I'm like, I went through the whole thing of like, you know, whispering in her ear, like waiting till the class dismissed and having to sing in front of it in front of the whole class. And then the night came and I was like, OK, do it. It's now or never. And then it was on from there.

So, I mean, I just love this journey that you had. And there's a couple of things that I heard in there that I think are really impactful. One of those is I think the role of, you know, maybe it's a mentor, maybe it's just, you know, somebody that you do have some level of trust with that shows kindness and encouragement. Yes, absolutely. And how impactful that can be.

And when you think about that, are there any other moments you think about where the care and what I would call deep kindness that somebody showed, do you help you feel empowered to kind of find that destiny of yours? Oh, God, in so many ways. I mean, really teachers. Teachers are my hero. I mean, really, teachers really.

I mean, there's certain things that I do on my own. I had to tap into my courage and go go forth. But I had teachers to guide me, teachers to point me out and go, no, you sit over here. You're different than the other kids, which let me know that I was smarter than I realized. And even in terms of talent, I would audition for some things and then somebody would go, no, no, no, because I really wanted to be a dancer.

Love movement. And I would go to my dance calls and they hear me sing and go, no, no, you're over here with the singers. You have you can do both, but not many people can do both well. So these were all people who became mentors and validation. Somebody who could seize things in me that I couldn't see myself.

It's very, very important for anyone to have for everyone to have someone who sees the potential that they can't quite see themselves. Yeah, for sure. You know, and when you're going to go into these experiences growing up where you did in Cincinnati and being bullied, what would you when you think back on that, what do you think is like the hardest trial that you faced during that time? What was the most difficult thing that you had to overcome? OK, we're going to go there.

Let's let's go there. Let's go there. We want to get deep. We want to get a lot of the hardest thing was dealing with sexual abuse as a kid. I was being taken advantage of because I was such a I mean, I was pure love as a kid.

I was I was naive. And no matter what happened to me, I always saw the bright side. I was born with an optimism that as an adult, I've learned to kind of like balance with realism, but still keep my my positive attitude. That was tough when those things happen and I couldn't tell anyone because that made me become an adult faster than I needed to. And to have that introduced to me and to not be able to have my own journey with that and have it forced upon me, you know, it's not a cool thing.

And then dealing with the secret of not being able to tell anyone and also knowing that if I told any adult that even as a kid before I had the words to describe things, I knew that the ripple effect would be amazing and not the best way. So I kept it to myself. And again, I believe that I was able to channel that into my heart, into my passion. And as something as actors, as creative people, we get to do we get to like work out our stuff and share at the same time if we choose to perceive it that way. Yeah.

Well, I mean, when I when I asked that question, I didn't have any idea that was actually the case. And I'm so first off, I'm so sorry that that was something you had to experience. And, you know, so I'm almost have to take a moment. I just that is such a it's just such a such a tough thing for somebody to have to experience and that you had to go through. What what got you through that?

Faith, you know, faith, a faith that I feel like I was just kind of born with. I really feel like I was born with a positive attitude. And even as an adult, you know, through the therapy and patient, I've been able to forgive those people because I'm thinking, you know, they had this done to me by other kids as well as adults. It's like somebody did it to them. You know, and it's like so that I'm grateful that I was able to work through my stuff and then get to the other side of the anger and resentment and find compassion.

You know, forgiveness came at the end of that. And then compassion, which was like a gift that I didn't expect to go, oh, wow. They didn't do that to me because of who I am. They did it because of who they are. And then beyond that was like, I wonder if someone did that, which is like real forgiveness.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm the kind of person who wants to squeeze as much out of life as I possibly can. I'm one of those who if there's a problem comes up, I'm going to deal with it. And I want to get back to the good times ASAP. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I thank you for your courage to share that, your vulnerability in sharing that. You know, it's my hope whenever on this podcast, we talk to people who've gone through really hard things. It's my hope that somebody that's listening, it's going through a hard season. Can't receive that strength from somebody else who's gone through it and know there's light at the end of that really dark tunnel. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, who, if nothing else, that little painfully shy kid who was abused and teased and bullied became the king. You know, and that's one of the things I love about Lion King is that, you know, we're all scarred, we're all Mufasa, we're all simple. It's all about having to deal with different parts of yourself. And we get to define who we are. Things happen to us, but we get the ultimate decision.

Am I going to stay stuck in this trauma or am I going to go through it, get to the other side and see what life is beyond it? That's a choice that we all get to make if we choose to do so. Yeah, you know, it kind of takes me to, and I hope that this isn't in any way insensitive to that experience that you just had, because I don't want to compare anything to it because nothing can compare to it. But if we're taking lessons from the Lion King, what it reminds me of is kind of where I was actually going to go next, which is the experiences of Simba, right? Where, you know, at the beginning of the show, I mean, Simba's this free-loving kid who just can't wait to be king, you know, and have a great time with his buddies.

And he's, you know, goofing off in this elephant graveyard and all these things. And then his dad dies and he believes it's his fault, even though it wasn't. Of course, we all know the story, right? It was Scar. It wasn't his fault at all, but he believes it was.

And Scar has tricked him, has manipulated him to think in it. And then Scar says, run away, Simba, run away and never return. And I wonder, you know, is that sometimes what we experience when we have shame and guilt and it's not actually our fault. And yet we do, and we feel like we have to run away. Was it, was there any part of that that you experienced in that, in that difficult time?

The only running away I did was, I mean, I did become like my mother talks about. She remembers, you know, like me going from being happy, go lucky, and then suddenly I was very sad when I look at pictures of me as a kid at a certain point, I'm not smiling. I do look kind of like detached because I was keeping a secret. I couldn't be fully who I was. And it's sort of like what happens with Simba.

Suddenly there's a cut, there's a break in your life. And there's a before the event and an after. And we all have those definite moments because we've all experienced trauma. We all have that moment when it's like, oh, I am no longer, I am no longer the child I used to be, the teenager I used to be, the adult I used to be because of this kind of trauma. But I feel like, I only speak for myself, that life is always trying to push me toward light.

So there are different signs that I've received over the years of like, now might be a time to deal with that. Now might be a time to have an even brighter life. I know things are great right now, but they could actually be better if you go back and deal with your personal stuff. Because material things, anything outside of us, that's one thing. And I think it's really easy to get defined by the things outside of us.

But the real beauty, the real wealth is inner peace, inner knowledge. So I feel like life is always trying to get us to go, okay, this is great. You've done all of this. You've got this, blah, blah, blah. But like, how are you?

And that's something that I've always wanted. Like, great. Yeah. Well, it actually happened. I'll never forget when I was doing Miss Saigon, my first Broadway show, understudying Hinton Battle, the great Hinton Battle, who won his third Tony Award playing John and Miss Saigon.

I was his understudy. After he won the Tony, you do eight shows a week on Broadway. After he won the Tony, he went down to doing six, and they gave me two of his shows. He left after the first year, and then I took over the role. And I remember thinking, okay, great.

Now things are going to finally be great. Because at that point, I was kind of running, you know, using the arts, using success as sort of like a pill to deal with my past. I never forget the day after I had breakfast with a group of friends to kind of celebrate me taking over the role. And I was like, what's wrong with you? I was like, I don't understand.

They're like, what's up? I said, when are things going to finally be okay? I thought that once, hitting this incredible Broadway show, I thought that would do it. Getting two shows a week of Hinton's, I thought it would do it. Now I'm taking over the role.

What is it going to take? That's when your friends said, you might want to think about therapy. And I thought, okay. And that's when I really started to go, okay, it's not about what my life looks like. It's about how I feel.

The real wealth is knowing yourself. So I feel like that's a call we all get. And the more successful you become, in some ways, the easier it is to use them as distractions to pull away from yourself, to be defied by those things. But I want both. I want the success, but I also want to be present for it.

I don't want to be using this as an excuse for that. I want to go, no, I'm present so I can enjoy the success. I can enjoy this trip. I can enjoy this concert and not be running away from anything. And I think so many times in our culture, we see it is some destination that we're going for, and that's going to be what brings it.

And I think to some degree, it's sports that does it. And I love sports. I enjoy sports really, but it's you got to win the championship. And when you win the championship, it is the most elation you could ever have. And so that's what you think Oh, it's about the championship.

And in life, it's just not right in life. It's what are we doing along the path to grow to be who we really are, right to find our destiny like you did to find what brings that joy to us during the process in the process of becoming not just once you get there. Because there is no there. I mean, I'm in New York City, right? The next one, the city was on fire that weekend.

Oh my God. And it's like, then people go back to the regular lives because the celebration side down and you're left with you. We are the constant in our lives. You know, things come and go championships, but like we are the 24 seven with ourselves. And that's the ultimate.

That's the ultimate. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one of the things going back to kind of your role in this Saigon in your book, one of the things you mentioned was when that kind of happened, you had some people, I believe this was the story. You had some people, some friends that maybe during the celebration were a little bit negative and kind of warning you like, you know, watch your back. Hey, you know, it's gonna be coming for you now.

And I think at that time, you may have had a mentor who kind of gave you the advice of like, don't listen to the projections of others, because that's where that negativity comes from. That's a huge thing that I share with all of my friends, the young kids that I'm mentoring and my adult friends, like do not allow yourself to have other people's issues projected onto you. And it's really tricky with artists because we're naturally sensitive. And we're always seeking some kind of validation as part of the job. It's part of like, did you like it?

How did I sound? Would you, you know, that whole thing, which, which again is why I think learning to validate yourself is the ultimate because then somebody compliments you, you can just go thank you. Not with anything. But yeah, at this party, I was, I was moving to Chicago to New York City to start rehearsals for Miss Saigon, the original company, which was already hit before it opened. There was a lot of controversy surrounding it with the casting.

So it drove the box office to a $10 million advance, which in 1991 was huge and broke all kinds of records. I'm at my party and some friends, these weren't my friends, but some of my friends brought some guests and they were like, well, you know, just be careful in New York, you know, watch out for this, watch out for that, watch out for this, watch out for that. I remember like someone, my mentor was at the party, he was like, what's wrong with you? I was like, you know, I'm excited. Like, man, I keep people keep telling me like to be scared and no, not to wear this because somebody will snatch the gold chain off your neck and the step.

He was like Alton, you're not that kind of a person. You're a positive person. You're a positive thinker. You look for the positive things in life. At the same time, you're smart.

That will not be your experience. So don't take that on. And that was just what I needed to hear. Like, oh yeah, I'm not like them. This is their own stuff.

But up until then, I was really like, am I going to go to New York, like more terrified than excited? But again, in terms of mentors, your question earlier, having validation when you trust is priceless. It changed everything for me. Yeah. How do you, how do you differentiate just for you in your life?

And maybe this would be advice that we're giving to somebody else. How would you differentiate between those who are giving you advice that's helpful, right? Because sometimes it's helpful to be aware of certain things that happen and the stuff that's just negativity, that's their own projections on you that you shouldn't listen to. How do you differentiate between those things? Always consider the source.

Who's saying this? Because when I was younger, somebody would say these kinds of things to me and I'd get all worked up and I'd go, I don't respect this person. I don't even know this person. But it triggers something in me. But then I go, oh, wait a minute.

They're trying to project their things onto me. And I have a choice to accept it or not. I don't accept it. So now, and it takes practice, but now I've practiced so much in my life that my instincts kick in and I go, oh, I know what this is. I know how to excuse myself.

Like I'm not going to be an audience for things that you need to work out on your own. And I'm not your friend to, to, for you to dump those things on. So I've learned to find a nice tactful way to go, oh, no, to protect my energy, to set boundaries around my positivity. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

You know, one of the things to talk about your positivity, one of the things that was struck in, in your book was I think there was a time, and I don't remember if it was in New York or somewhere else, but that you in essence were robbed or had your your wallet and stuff stolen like three times in this really short period of time, right? Can you share that with us? It was like my first time in Chicago, on an agent who wanted me, I was doing a tour of Dreamgirls and he, we were playing in New Haven, which is not far from New York. The female lead of the show, her agent was, she was from New York and her agent came up to see us and was like, hey, I think you're talented. I would love to represent you.

And I said, I'm not moving to New York without a job. Chicago is a great theater town, whether you're working or not, it's still the Midwest, so it's still affordable. And it was great regional theater happening there. And he said, I said, but if you submit different things, I will come to New York to audition. For the first time, I took the Greyhound and we stopped in Cleveland where one of my sisters lived at the time.

And I've been, she brought me a meal and I'm like, I gotta watch the time, I can't miss this bus. And she's talking and talking and talking. We got wrapped up missing, I know I missed the bus. So all of my things were on the bus. So I wanted to go and show them the audition and the clothes I had.

Second time, I took the train. I was sleeping and somebody stole my bag. So for Miss Saigon, I thought, I'm going to scrape some money together and I'm going to fly. I'm not taking any chances. And it's really kind of magical because I was doing a show in, I was in the ensemble of a show in Chicago at the time, way out in the burbs.

And we had two days, Monday and Tuesday. So my audition was Monday afternoon. I flew in Monday morning, went to the audition that afternoon. And they said, hey, your agent said that you're supposed to be flying back to Chicago tonight, but we wanted you to come to the dance call. Can you change your plans?

I was like, absolutely. So I got on the phone, changed my flight, went to the dance call that evening and then flew back to Chicago. And it was kind of because of the controversy with Miss Saigon, they were threatening to cancel it because the actors union didn't like certain parts of it. And this all drove the box office up. And I remember, again, another projection.

And one of the guys I met at the dance call was like, because I'm excited, like, oh my God, we made it down because it went from 50 guys to 20 to 10. And I was like, man, this is so exciting. It's like, yeah, well, don't get too excited. This is my fourth dance call and there's no guarantee that it's even going to happen. And I was like, wonk, wonk, wonk.

I was like, oh, well, so I came back to Chicago like, okay, well, who knows if it's even going to happen. And I just kind of let it go, which is hard to do. And then that same night, I got the call that I booked it and that will be understudying one of my heroes into battle. And looking back on it, I see they were always tested, right? So that first time when my stuff was stolen, am I still passionate?

Do I still want to do this? Am I willing to try this again? Okay. Let me try the train this time. Happened with the train.

Okay. I get another call. Is this going to stop me? No, I want this. And this is just what I have to do to get it done.

I flew. So when the reward came, I was able to go, thank goodness I stayed present for myself, for my passion. I passed the test and the result was beyond my wildest dream. I mean, going from the ensemble in the theater in the suburbs of Chicago to something I'm going to be understudying my hero in the biggest Broadway show at the time, those kind of things can only happen if you keep showing up for yourself. Yeah.

And you have boundaries around other people's opinions. Yeah. And then when those opportunities do come that you've prepared yourself. Exactly. So you can take advantage of those opportunities.

Absolutely. Because sometimes we miss those because we're just, we're not prepared. We're distracted. We let other people's negativity bog us down. And then suddenly this great opportunity passes us by and we don't even realize it.

Yeah. And also, what your passion is, nobody's going to understand it but you. You can explain it to the person you love the most, but it's for you, specifically for you. So I would say, I learned early, instead of trying to prove it to you, let me just show you. I'm not going to show you because of you.

I'm going to show you because of me. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like, rate, and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you. We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality.

One of the things that you said in your book is that passion has to be born correctly or it could lead to burnout. And so when we think about that, obviously we started out this podcast and one of the things that you're maybe most famous for is performing more than 4,000 times as Mufasa. 4,380. So you know exactly the number. I love this.

It's so many. And so, one of the things that I was thinking about when it comes to this is some work by Dr. Angela Duckworth. She wrote a book called Grit, which I just love. She talked about the difference between high performers or high achievers and she categorizes it as those that have grit, which is the power of passion plus perseverance.

And so I think about this idea of like passion, but it could lead to burnout. One of the things she said is enthusiasm is common. Endurance is rare. So for you, like, take us through like, first off, how did you get to that point where you're in the position to be the king of the world? And then also that you didn't get burned out with 4,308.

Is that what we said? Yeah. My goodness. Because burnout could come so easily with that many performances. Well, there's a couple of things that came into play with that.

I love theater. I loved the validation that I got doing my job consistently well. I love the benefits, the status, the paycheck, all those wonderful things, the beautiful life I was able to build. But then beyond that, giving back to what we were talking about earlier about not letting myself be solely defined by the things outside of me, in the back of my mind was like, what kind of life do I have outside of this? And that's what was always knocking at the door.

I loved showing up on time and doing well and blah, blah, blah, and that feeling of, yes, I did another great show. Then at a certain point I realized it's not realistic to work at this kind of pace without balance. And slowly but surely knocking on the door was like, okay, what else do you want to do? What else do you consist of? More than this, there's other kinds of this life still happening outside of eight shows a week.

And that voice got louder and louder. And then I found that, okay, well, I'm not ready to leave the show. So how can I not sabotage this? Because I did get burned out. How can I not sabotage this incredible opportunity?

Okay, that's when I started doing outside. Once I got back, when I got off tour, when you're on tour, it's great because you're going to different cities, you can be a different version of yourself in every city, you're meeting new people, this show's a hit, people are rolling off the red carpet wherever you go. Once I came back into the New York company, which was tremendous to take over the role on Broadway, I was the second person to do it on Broadway, then it becomes okay. Now I'm in New York or I'm back home. I have, there's no excuse to not only do the show.

And I started, okay, now people would do benefits. I would donate my voice just to do service in that way. I would start doing more cabaret acts because I would reach a point where I'm like, okay, doing this same thing every time and finding new things within is great, but I need, I'm a creative, I need to create something else. So I would do my own show where I didn't have to, where I wasn't directed. I could sing what I wanted to sing the way I wanted to sing it.

So that became a balance. And then when I get around again, I thought, you know what, maybe I'll do a Disney CD. You know, every Broadway star eventually released some kind of recording. I thought maybe I'll do some Disney songs and give them my own spin. So that took a lot of my time.

And that was great because like I wasn't just Mufasa. I was also financing another aspect of my dream, my creativity. And that lasted for a long time. And then at some point I realized- Which by the way, that album is fantastic. Thank you, man.

We're going to put a link to that in the show because I listened to it and then I listened to it on repeat. It's just absolutely fabulous to hear you sing and your take on different Broadway Disney songs. So fun. I mean, such a good album. Supercalis is probably my favorite because it's so different.

Is that the one you favorite? Yeah. That one and her voice. Her voice is Little Mermaid is my second favorite. But yeah, so there are ways.

And when I do my talk, I talk about balancing your passion. It's okay to have more than one passion. And if you can find something else to detach, like I love this thing, but I'm going to detach from that and go to this other thing, I get to come back to this thing that I love with fresh eyes. So when I was recording my CD during the day and then go to the show at night, it was like, oh wow, now I get to do this already. No, with a different kind of energy as opposed to doing the same thing.

Because we all need refreshers. And when I do my talks, I remind people that you're allowed to take a break, even if you have to schedule it. It's okay because it's not realistic to go like this all the time. It's just not, we're not machines, we're human beings and other parts of ourselves want attention. Yeah, definitely true.

You know, when you're doing this too, so you do Miss Saigon. I mean, it's this huge hit, right? And then you're the second person to do Mufasa on Broadway, which Lion King is the most successful box office wise Broadway music of all time. And my sixth Broadway show, I've done six Broadway shows in total. My goodness, right?

And how easy it might be for somebody who's done that many to let their ego get a little out of control. And I want to read you a quote from you. And this, I'm going to quote you to you and then I'll get you to do that. Okay. You said, you said, gratitude is a great remedy for when our egos get out of control.

So tell me more about that, about how gratitude played a role for you to help keep that ego in check a little bit. Recognizing that you still have to recognize that you can do a lot of you do great things, but not letting it get out of control. Well, for me, I mean, I learned a lot from my mentors, you know, throughout theater. Even when I was in the chorus, I would look at the principles, the stars and see how they behave themselves. How do they take direction?

How about they, because when you're the leader of a show, people treat you differently. They treat you like you're a parent, whether you are or not. They just look at you differently. If and when I am blessed enough to have the opportunity to be one of those kinds of people, how do I behave? You know, how do I address the cast?

How do I, you know, how, it's a very real thing. What persona do I want to take on? So once I got to that point, and I would talk to these people and ask some questions and they loved it. They loved it. I was like, I was one of those real serious kids who was really wanting to do it and really wanted to every aspect of it.

They would feed me and tell me, well, you do this and you do that and this is appropriate. This isn't appropriate. So I had that kind of training from my mentors and I learned them that it's never about you. It's always about the work. The work is the most important thing.

As an actor, like with Lion King or any show that I do, there's a whole team of people who crafted this piece of art in every word that they chose. They chose. So I can't add to it. All I can do is take what they said and try to give it different meaning, you know, but still tell the story. So there was never been about Eagles.

It's always been about the work. And again, it came from my mentors and gratitude. I mean, there were many times when I would be burnt out. I'd be sitting in my dressing room. I have one of the few dressing rooms on Broadway that has a window.

Because most dressing rooms do not have windows. And my window faced out, I could see part of Times Square from my window. And I'd be sitting there going, you know, here I am playing Mufasa in the most incredible show ever. And what am I really doing with my life? You know what I mean?

We all have those questions. How successful we are. What am I really doing? And I would go, I remember those times. And I'd be walking through Times Square, not on Broadway, not working and thinking, will I ever be a part of this community again?

Because you don't, you never know if your last Broadway show was going to be it. I got from Miss Saigon. I thought this may be my one and only Broadway show. Thank goodness I got to do five more. But I think about that time and that feeling of like not being a part of this thing I love.

And I would go, step out of it. I'm here right now. All right. So having gratitude at the foundation is something I can always tap into. And I have different levels of gratitude.

So I will never get so burnt out that I can't tap into some kind of gratitude because it's that important to me. And have you, I think that you may do some meditation. Is that one of the ways that you kind of center yourself and making sure that you find gratitude? Yeah. Well, I mean, to me, meditation isn't just sitting still.

And this is something, another thing I discuss with my, when I do my talks with corporations and things like meditation is whatever takes you to that comfortable place. My meditations are active, looking at meditation for me. I do hot yoga. You know, my best thoughts come to me when I'm in that hot room and I do not, I'm a fan, I'm a person who's not a fan of summer. So like me doing hot yoga is like, I can't believe that, you know, 17 years later that I'm a hot yogi, but it takes me to the place of like, where I go through the fire, I get to the other side, every classmate, and I find this place of like, I never thought I'd be here.

And that's where the clarity is for me. So whatever takes you there for me, it is that it is cooking is taking a beautiful drive is being in nature. I'm a tree hugger. You know, I have a garden, blessed to have live in a brownstone, have a roof garden. They feed me, I think there's something I get to nurture.

So whatever meditation doesn't have to be still. A lot of us are very busy. It could be, yeah, that could be a beautiful drive and great music, or sometimes just driving and listening to the wind. Whatever calms you down is your meditation. Yeah, I think it's a really great point.

I think for me, it's something that I've kind of come to the realization of in the last few years. And for me, that's actually been running, which is not something I ever would have guessed much like you don't like summer, I hated running like I thought it was terrible. Why would anybody do this torture? And yet, I had a really good friend who just encouraged me to do it. And so I started doing it.

And I just stuck with it. I finally got to this point where when I run, it's it is an absolute meditative state. And I know I can go to that when I need to just think when I needed just almost going to clear my mind and then think really, really clearly about things. It's moving my body and it's running. And that's absolutely become that for me.

And I love I love what you're saying that advice about, like, find what it is for you, because it doesn't have to be sitting there, you know, doing a particular pose and doing all right, right. It doesn't have to be that. It can be a lot of things, but find what it is. And then be intentional. Yes, do more of it.

Be intentional. Do more of it. If you're busy, schedule time. This is for me. Oh, I'm going to take out a half hour, no matter what's going on, to detach and go do this thing.

And then I'm going to come back a better version of myself for everything that I touch, because I've given this to myself. I love what you said about running. Yeah, you think, why would anybody do that? I felt the same way about yoga. But then when I do it, it's like, I get the mental stuff.

But then I get all the physical benefits, all the other stuff I didn't even think about. But the real, the bottom line is I'm doing it for me. Yeah. And all those other things become great surprise benefits, right? Yeah, such a great point.

One of the things I thought about when you are doing all these performances of Mufasa is that, you know, each night, it's like you have to hit such heavy emotional beats playing that role as Mufasa, right? How do you do that and not have those heavy emotional beats take a toll on your personal life? Well, this is where training comes in, because, you know, I know a lot of folks, I did a show called The Color Purple, I got to play Mr. in The Color Purple, and I got to work with Fantasia, who was fantastic. She wanted to do the film.

It was wonderful. She's naturally talented. And, you know, because it was so close to her real life, it was really hard for her to turn it off. And it was really as a cast, we saw her really go through it, really struggle with it, because she's such a genuine, sweet, kind, I mean, she's what you think she is, just a southern girl who's just the sweetest can be. And she's dealing with all this stuff.

And it's like, she was a training is learning to like, either when you're there, but then turn it off once the curtain comes down. That's why many people think they can just go from TV and film or another medium and go and go do eight shows a week. They always go, wow, I had no idea it was this hard. It's like, yeah, you've got to sustain that. And you have to have a life beyond it.

But if you don't have that kind of training, you can't help but take it home. Because you're using real parts of yourself to tap into this emotion to communicate to the audience. So the training definitely helped. And I was saying earlier about, you know, not, I can't, it's not realistic for me to only do Mufasa and insist on every show be perfect. I have to like, leave some space for myself to make mistakes.

And to be human, because I'm not a machine, even though I'm consistent, and I pride myself on that, I'm a human being. So having a life out of it is very, very important. Something to detach to that you enjoy. It's very, very important. And it's with any business, right?

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, one of the things I thought about when I was, you know, kind of thinking through this and the emotional toll things can take and the repetitive, the repetitive beats that you have to have, you know, when I think about what my profession is, right? One of the things that I struggle with initially, when I was first doing divorces as a divorce attorney was trying to set aside my clients issues and problems, but I didn't take them home as my own. Because I was doing those every day. I was I was counseling people every single day about maybe the most difficult emotional thing that they've had to do, many of them in their lives.

And it was really hard because I took it home. Right. I took it home at first. It was so hard. And it just over time, I learned to start creating better boundaries.

I learned to start leaving that more at the office so that I didn't bring it home. But it took a toll initially. Right. It was really hard. And in essence, that was the training I had to go through, I guess, which is kind of on the job training, I suppose, and see how the negative effects were.

But but realize I needed to do it a little bit differently. I mean, I see. So was there anything particular that happened? Is there a particular case that makes you go, wait, I can't, this is not sustainable. I've got to find I've got to this is something that that calls you to really go, I need to set boundaries that you can share?

Yes. And in fact, there was a number of like really difficult emotional cases that I had to deal with with some like, really tough things that happened. But the one that really made it clear to me that I needed to have the boundaries for myself and for my family was actually the case was relatively innocuous. But I was at Disneyland with my family. And I had given out my cell phone to some clients.

And I had a client that was just incessantly texting me about what they perceived as an emergency. And I'm sure for them, it felt that way. For me, knowing the law, I knew that it was right. But I knew that it was something that didn't need to get addressed. But it was just like text after text.

And I'm trying to enjoy this time with my kids, I'm trying to be present with them. And my phone's getting blown up. And I just it was kind of like, hit me. I can't, the boundary has to be I can't get out myself. Yeah, I can't be dealing with these things when I'm going to be on vacation or out of the office.

It has to be it's okay for me to set that aside. Does that mean that some clients aren't going to hire me because they can't access me 24 seven? It sure does. And that's okay. Yeah.

And I had to be okay with that. Exactly, dude. Know thyself and know what you need to be performed at, you know, at a high level. And it's different for all of us. But if you don't set it, then you leave yourself at the mercy of it.

Because I feel like that person, if you keep calling, if he keeps calling, you keep picking up, they think, well, it must be okay. You must be right. It's up to you to go, that is not okay. And also, like, yeah, me in those cases, I've learned to really trust my instincts, within friendships, anything, even kids who want to be looking for mentorship, I can tell if the kid is looking for me to do everything for them, or if they've already started and they just need help. Because I don't like wasting my time.

You know, I like making good investments. And I've learned to go, okay, yeah, I'm a loving, giving person, but that has to be earned from someone. I'm not going to just give it because I've allowed it to be abused. So you live and you learn. Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

So what are the other things too, I wanted to get a little bit more your take on as well is what did you learn from being Mufasa himself, right? Being the king, both the things, the lessons from that show, but also what you mentioned a little bit in your in your book, which is, you in essence kind of became that for the cast at times as well, like the leader for the cast. Tell me what lessons you learned from Mufasa. I learned, I learned quiet strength. I learned that you don't need a lot of words to make your because when I first saw like, I first saw liking I was doing a show called ragtime, where I was like the star of the last battle, this glorious show that I'm actually in the process of directing, making my directorial debut with it in September.

So I've been in meetings for the past month with, you know, costume designers and, and set designers had, you know, three meetings this morning. But anyway, where's that going to be? I have to have to digress here. Where's that going to be in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, in a place called the Fulton Theater, a beautiful theater, you know, country, but I'm doing this big show. And I remember that year the Tonys, it was ragtime and, and the Lion King, and who's going to win best musical and like, you know, the Tonys one would win something than the other.

And they kept going down and then Lion King, of course, took the prize and I've been thinking, man, when I get a chance to see this show, I want to see what the big deal they can't be all of that. And then of course, I saw it and was like, oh, wow. I remember seeing the gentleman who played the original Mufasa and being moved by his performance, but thinking, man, he doesn't have enough to do. I could never play that part because he's just, it's not enough there. I was younger then.

And then I was cast as Mufasa for the, to open the national tour, taking her on the country for the first time. I complained, I was like, man, it's like, you know, he's only in the first act, doesn't have a whole lot of lines. And, but, you know, it was what it was. And then when I showed to do Mr. In The Color Purple, and then was invited back to Lion King to open the Vegas company, I was like, wow, I've matured some.

And now I understand why he says what he says. He doesn't need a whole lot of dialogue. It's about his presence, about what he, what he represents is about his inner strength. It's about him too. Taking the few words he has to say and saying them with meaning.

I had enough life experience at that point to go, I can just say it like this. And that's it. So it learned, it taught me that the power of words, the power of clarity, strength. It taught me that a leader is not just someone who tells people what to do. A leader is also a very good listener and a good problem solver and a good team player.

And listens well enough to go, okay, given what I've learned, you might be good at doing this, you might be good at doing that, you might be good at doing this. Let's all do this. Let's all make this happen together as opposed to I have to make that. So it taught me a lot of things about leadership and what it takes to really be king. And we all have that in us.

For sure. Real quick, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about as well was one of the songs that was unique to the Broadway version of Lion King. It's just such an amazing song. And just really get your interpretation of what the song means for you and what it could mean for people. And in the song, and I'm sure you know which one I'm going to talk about, but the song lines read, he lives in you, he lives in me.

He watches over everything we see into the water, into the truth, in your reflection, he lives in you. And so just some wonderful lines and the way that it plays out to you is such an emotional song. So for you, what are the meanings of that song in your life? And as you were part of that, as you would sing and hear others sing that, what did that song mean to you? Well, when I first saw the show, as before I saw the show, to be totally honest, I heard the soundtrack and that song stood out to me.

Something about the lyrics and music, I was like, whoa. And I remember back in the day before iPods and things, we had, you know, if you liked songs, you would make your own playlist on a cassette. And on my cassette, on my gym cassette was, they live in you. I thought it was so beautiful, it helped get me up, it helped me, it motivated for the gym. And then when I saw the show and the way it's staged, it was like, wow.

And there's two different versions. Mufasa's things, they live in you. Because he's explaining, Simba asked him, dad will always be together, right? And Mufasa, coming out of just having saved him from the hyenas, is not expecting, they've had the talk about danger, he wasn't expecting to have this talk about, yeah, one day I won't be here. So he looks up into the stars and taps into the energy ancestors and sings, they live in you.

And then in Act Two, when Simba's trying to find his own, thinking about going back, he sings, he lives in you. We're just talking about Mufasa. So to me, what the song says, especially they live in you is that, you know, energy never dies. That we have the opportunity to pull from anyone that we've ever heard about, you've ever encountered, the lessons of love, the beauty, anything we want, if we choose to remember, recurring theme of Lion King, remember who you are, remember where you come from. So that song means a lot to me, especially as black male, who I was pursuing theater, who when I went to college, when I started college, I was told that there were no roles for me on Broadway.

I remember being in class as the only black male in this class and the teacher going around the class and going, Susan, when you get to New York, you got this looking for you, waiting for you and him, you and all out. And unfortunately, the only things waiting for you were slave type roles like in showboat. And she said this in front of the class. I remember thinking, she talking to me, did she really say this aloud? Of course, I heard my feelings as a young person.

But again, it was another test. Am I going to let her ignorance be projected onto me? No. And no matter how much it hurt my feelings, I still knew that I wanted to do it. I thought, wow, this is a good lesson for me.

I will be tested, but yeah, I still want to do it. And I believe that there is something waiting for me. So I think about all those things. I think about the black performers who came before me, who were more talented than me, who didn't have the opportunity to get to Broadway because of the times. And I go, wow, I get to pull from their energy.

I get to represent them. And not just them, but anybody in history that has inspired me, I get to be a present representation of them so they will always live in me as long as I allow them to. So that's kind of like a major theme in my life. It was when I first heard the song and then getting the opportunity to perform it nightly and have that meaning behind it in the context of the show and also what I felt about it personally was tremendous. What tremendous gift to be able to really share that in that way.

Well, I think part of what's so inspirational for me about you and your story is, especially hearing some of the things you shared today, is that you're keeping those parts of inspiration and letting those be what you remember as opposed to the things that a lot of people might use as excuses for not doing something great and for holding themselves back because they experience something so hard and so difficult. And so they have all the excuses in the world not to go put themselves out there and to do something truly great. And yet what you've done is something truly great and truly inspirational for so many people. And I thank you for that. Well, thank you.

So one of the things we want to end with is we'll do a quick little fun segment. We're going to do a quick this or that in rapid fire and then we'll wrap up with your three actionable takeaways. So buckle up for this, this or that. Okay. Are you ready for this?

I mean, I'm sitting down. I got my nerves together. All right, let's go. Let's go. All right.

First one, circle of life or Hakuna Matata? Circle of life. So good. Like that, you know, I'm going to digress for a second here, even though it's not going to be fast. You know, one of the most brilliant things I think that Disney did was when they did the initial trailer for the movie, that it was just circle of life.

Like that's what they did. It was literally just that, that whole opening scene. And there wasn't anything else in the trailer. And it was the most brilliant thing because the song is so beautifully written and the whole, the whole thing about it. It's just so wonderful.

I love that. And it's about community. That opening is about community coming together, which is everything, right? Community. Yeah, which we can all relate to, right?

It's so much of that, like we talked about before, that sense of belonging and having a sense of belonging because we all can work together and we all become something that can support each other. And also, can I tell you something that really bugs me? Everybody says, say something, instead of saying, excuse me, or no problem, or you're welcome. They go, no worries. I'm like, where did this no worries thing come up?

And I, well, now I just go, can I have a tata? And they look at me like, what? I'm like, means no worries. I'm like, where did that, why does everybody start saying no worries instead of like other words? It seems really lazy to me.

Sure. You're welcome. No worries. And it's like, who's worried? Nobody's worried about anything.

But anyway, it's one of the things I actually saw. I saw a clip a couple of days ago that said exactly that, right? Like we got to all stop saying no worries. There's so many other things we can say that are more precise and much better. You know, other words.

I might have to borrow that. I might have to borrow that idea of a kuna matata. Next time somebody says no worries, like kuna matata, is that what we're talking about? Right. That was throws them and they wind up giggling.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, anyway, I love it. Bring a little levity, right? Always.

It's always kind of fun to bring a little levity. Opening night or closing night? Opening night. Closing nights are so hard. Oh, I'm sure.

Because you become such a family. I don't care. Like even this thing I just sang with the Pops last week with the other singers and we had so little time to put this together. You rehearsed on your own. You got blocking, staging one day with the orchestra the next day and then you do it.

And it's so concentrated. You're depending on each other in ways you can't even imagine. Suddenly it's over. It's like always sad. No matter how.

It was a triumph, but it's still like, oh man, I don't know when I will ever see them again. And the four of us may never ever work together like this. But opening is always exciting. It's like, you don't know what it's going to be. You've rehearsed, but you still don't know until that moment what it's going to be.

So there's an excitement and a nervousness that they kind of that's a part of the opening. Yeah, I love that. Great answer. Matinee or evening show? Evening.

Matinees are rough. Oh yeah. I mean, probably just the volume, the sheer volume of what you got to do. When I was doing Ragtime, which is the beast of a show, my character sings all these anthems. We did a five-show weekend.

We did those with Lion King too. So you as an audience member, you're seeing the show and going, oh my goodness, you're exhausted from having gone on this journey. And we're going to do, if you see a two o'clock show, we're going to do that again that evening. So a typical five-show weekend is through Saturday through Sunday. You see no daylight.

All you see is the dark theater and you're doing what you love to do. And that's, so that's a whole other set of challenges that the average person doesn't know about. Yeah. And I remember that. When I go, cause I see a lot of shows now and I go see, really good, I go, I go see an evening show like a Wednesday night knowing they've done a matinee that day.

I go, how do they do it? And I did it. And I still don't understand like how did they, all that investment twice today. Wow. Yeah.

It gives me a greater appreciation for, my wife and I now love going to New York because we just absolutely love Broadway. And when we're there- We have to connect the next time you're here for sure. Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Whenever I'm there, I always kind of bemoan like, oh, it's Monday. There's no shows.

How come they don't do shows on Monday? Well, it's because they're doing so many, like they have to have a break. They're human, right? Like, of course there's going to be a day. Some theaters have gotten smart.

Now they do Monday shows. They'll have a Thursday off because they want to take advantage of it. What they want to be one of three things you have an option of seeing. And there's always on Broadway happening everywhere, but more and more people are doing Monday shows for that reason. Yeah.

Okay. So I'm going to, I'm going to vary from the this or that real quick. And I'm going to go with Matthew quick rapid fire. What's your favorite show currently on Broadway? That's not lying.

Oh, my favorite show on Broadway. That's, oh, that's tough. Man. What have I seen that I really love? I'm trying to think of what's on Broadway.

I see so much theater that I'm trying to remember. What's Broadway? What's off Broadway? My favorite on Broadway show. Is it still playing?

No, it just closed a couple of weeks ago. I loved it. Did you see that? I did. I saw it twice.

Oh, it was so good. It was great. Yeah. I would probably say Hades town. Hades town is really a fantastic show.

Hades town is amazing. Yeah. You weren't ever in Hades town, were you? No, I always said that if I were to go back to theater, that's Hades is the role that I would want to play. Because you'd be incredible in that role.

Yeah. You'd be absolutely unbelievable that that show. I mean, that show takes some singing, right? I mean, all Broadway does, but boy, that one sure does. And when every time I've seen it, it just blew my socks off.

It's so good. It's one of those shows where you really feel like you're a part of the world. Yeah. You just really like you forget that you're in the theater and you really feel like you're in your own stage with them living all of that. It's yes.

Very few shows can take you there. Yeah, it totally brings you in. Okay. Singing in the shower or singing in the car? Both.

More in the car. Because the car like it's me. I'm always conscious of my neighbors, you know, I'm always conscious of that. But in the car, dude, full on full concert. Yeah.

Yeah. For me, the car because I still do it in the shower. But my kids hear it. And then they tease me because I'm not a good singer at all. And legitimately, I'm not.

And so they're always like, give me a hard time when I'm singing the shower. And so yeah, singing the car like who could have a data? Okay. Backstage pass or red carpet? It's a red carpet.

Backstage pass. Okay, tell me more. Red carpet is for showing off, which is nice, but it's like, it's more social. It's more doesn't really mean anything. It's temporary.

But going backstage to actually talk to people and tell them, my goodness, you really moved me or that is a whole other thing. That's more personal. Yeah, I love that. That's a great answer. Yeah.

Yes, for sure. Okay. Here's a rapid fire. And if you don't have an answer on these, that's okay. You can always pass if you want.

But we're just going to get your first take on these. Okay. Favorite Disney movie? The Lion King. Okay.

If it wasn't the Lion King, because I thought maybe you would answer that way because I totally get it. It wasn't the Lion King. It would be I liked The Little Mermaid. So good. The Little Mermaid's got great music too.

Yeah. Yeah. Phenomenal music. Yeah. And that's the reason which on my CD, her voice, that being like one of my top two favorites, it's a song that Prince Eric sings that was cut from the film, but they did use it for the stage production.

And I knew what I heard. It's about it, but I knew immediately that I wanted to speed it up and give it a driving B. And it tends to be people's favorite song. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

And so with that favorite Disney song? Her voice. Okay. Yeah. There we go.

I love that. It's so descriptive. It takes place right after Ariel's rescued him. And he's like, did I dream? Did someone come save me?

Was there a girl? Where is she? I keep hearing her voice. It just really lays it out beautifully, the song, the lyrics, and the music. Love it.

Favorite Disney princess? My favorite Disney princess would be probably, I can't, this is Tiana. Tiana. Oh, yeah. Wonderful princess.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Not to show that when it first came out, it didn't do super well. Right.

But I think it's gained a lot more attention and a lot more people who love it. Like, me and my kids, we love it now. I think it's so fun. I love the music in that one too. Yeah.

Really, really fun show. Do you, I should ask before I ask this next question, do you ever go to Disneyland or Disney World? Yes. I spend a lot of time working at Disney World. The Festival of the Arts, I helped start that whole thing that's become a yearly thing.

No kidding. Yeah. It's like, you know, they have the Food and Wine Festival. They have the whole winter thing. We started what's called Festival of the Arts about probably almost 10 years ago now.

It happens like the top of the year where they would take four different Broadway stars and we would do concerts in the outdoor space at EPCOT. Yes, which is a cool space. I did it for the first five years. Oh my goodness. Do you ever go down there still for it?

I don't. I don't go unless I'm being sent for it. Okay. That's fair. I was gonna say, if you're ever going down there, I want to know when because I'm gonna go meet you down there.

Yeah, I did. I stepped away from it. Then I did again last year and I might do it again. If I do, I'll let you know. And I've also been the narrator for the winter thing a couple of times.

If I do, I'll definitely let you know. That was incredible to be there. You as a narrator would be awesome. Dude, it was so much fun. So when you go down there for things like that, do they give you like kind of special access to go on rides?

They kind of give you the VIP. It's the worst. I get a tour guide. I get a two-bedroom suite. I'm allowed to buy up to eight friends down with me.

It is the best gig in the world. Oh, man. It sounds incredible. I've seen every inch of Disney World in every kind of way. You have.

Dude, that's one of the things I'm most grateful for because that definitely takes, that satisfies a little boy, a little Alton watching the wonderful world of Disney on Sunday nights after the Mutual of Omaha, Wild Kingdom. That was it. You will watch Mutual of Omaha and when I was going, wow, one day and to get to like do that, find my sisters out and my family and go look at us. It's happening. We're at Disney World.

Dude, dreams come true. Yeah, no question. So with that, related to that, what's your favorite Disney ride? Oh, my favorite Disney ride is the latest one. I got to ride it the first week it opened.

What's it called? What is the based on a movie? Guardians. Oh, yeah. I got to ride it the first week it opened.

And I'm not, you know, I first time I rode it, I done for the day. Have you ever ridden it? Yes. Yeah, because, you know, it doesn't just go like this. The whole thing turns.

And I was not ready. Like it's the first ride we did with my family and most of well, because I had guests, I had to kind of suffer through it because you can't go on the ride or get to the front of the line without me. But then when I went back last year, I said, let me try it again. And I was like, I love it. I took some Dramamine before.

So I was prepared. There you go. I was like, this is the most thrilling thing I've ever been on. So that's my favorite. That's a great one.

We had a really fun experience. Last time we went to Disney World, we had our two little daughters who were 10 and six. And we'd been trying to go on it all day, but we went during a time of year where it just had rained a lot. I mean, it rained excessively on us that day. And guardians had kept closing down and we were going to go and then open it back up.

We tried to go and then close down. And so it's at the end of the day, the park is five minutes from closing and they open it back up. And so my one daughter, my 10 year old, and I get in line because my wife is like our six year old, she was tow. She was taking her on the bus back. We're like, Hey, we gotta see if we can get it.

And so we do. And so we're going on it after hours. By this point in time, you know, the park's been closed for 45 minutes, almost an hour. And we get to go on it. And we just loved it.

It's such a great memory that she and I have now going on that ride. And the music, all of it together. Yes. I got another little story though that was really great. When they first opened, what's the futuristic land?

Is some of the Avatar land, that whole thing. Oh yeah. I got to go on that before it opened too. Because I was down there doing, because I've done, especially arts, I've done some speaking gigs for teachers because Disney is really good about honoring people. And I was brought into like to praise teachers.

And it happened to be around when they were just about to open it. And I almost didn't let us do it. They were like, you know what, we shouldn't do this. But okay. So we got permission to ride the, what is it called?

Flight of passage? What is it? Yeah. Flight of the passage. Yeah.

Oh dude. That was like, yeah, that's another one of another other world. That will blow your mind. Yeah. You feel like you're riding a Banshee when they do it.

The way that they, have it set up, the smells they have come when you're doing it is incredible. Yeah. So that's a great ride. Yeah. Yeah.

I love those. Okay. A couple more here. Besides Mufasa, what's the favorite role you've ever played? It was Mr.

In the Color Purple. Okay. Yeah. Because Mr. really helped me heal my relationship with my father.

Playing Mr. and that whole time I realized it helped me. I've already done a lot of healing, but I realized, oh wow, so many of our fathers had such limited resources in terms of healing outside of alcohol, the bar, sports, you know, men, a lot of men are raised and really happened to the other parts of themselves. And that's sort of really helped me give some distance of like, wow, I have compassion, a deeper compassion for him and men of his time. Yeah, totally.

I love that answer. Okay. Two more. One might be a little bit deeper, so it might not be rapid fire really easily, but how are you saying yes and in your life right now? Because obviously that's our podcast.

Yes. And how are you saying yes. And in your life right now in agreeing to direct ragtime, to make my director, I directed ragtime, a symphonic version of it, which is different because you, the symphonic version is the focus on the magnificent music. So I did a lot of staging. I got to design what it's going to look like and the end of projections and screens to set where we are.

And it was very fulfilling. And, but I was also playing cold house. I was directing and starring in it, which was a lot. I remember thinking, you know, this is great to sing this music again after 25 years and that I still can sing it and those notes after 25 years, but I really would rather just kind of stood back and watched the whole thing come together. Then last fall, I got a call from somebody that I did my first equity show with many years ago, who's now running a theater and said, would you be interested in directing ragtime?

And I was like, uh, yes. And what do I need to learn? And I said, I've not directed or a theater before and I dealt with, I mean, I dealt with different aspects when I did the concert version, but this is different. You talked about set design and this and that, and he goes, working with first time directors. We love nurturing them.

It's something we do. I appreciate your expertise, not only with your journey with ragtime, but your whole career. And I thought, wow, it's a chance for me to take my overall experience, the accumulation of my life and into art. And it's been very challenging because I'm learning a lot. I have a different appreciation for what it takes to put show together.

I've never been in so many meetings in my entire life and I'm very much an introvert. So like, I'm, I'm, I'm going, yes. And then I'm coming out of myself. Yeah. Even with this, like normally, you know, I'm a busy guy and I thought past.

Yes. I have not. Yes. And so even this is something that is into that category. Yeah.

Great answer. Okay. Here's our last rapid fire question. What is the question I should have asked you that I didn't or any story you would want to share that we didn't get to? That's a good question.

Um, I guess, I guess something that I, that you, that I, you could have asked me that you did and something kind of really basic, but like, do you, am I happy? Are you happy? Yeah. And the answer is I am joyful. Oh, I love that.

Because I feel like happiness comes and goes, but I feel like the accumulation of my experiences have taught me for my life that joy is more important than happiness. That joy is something I can, no matter how challenging the day, I can detach from it and go, let me tap back into my joy as opposed to like, what's going to make me happy right now? No, let me tap into that reservoir of joy and sort of like gratitude, having that at my foundation, I can, I can rest in that. I can lay in that. I can find peace and solace in that and then get back up and go back at it.

Yeah. That's such a wonderful, wonderfully put. I love the way that you describe that and the difference between joy and happiness. A terrific answer. All right.

Well, as we finish up here, what we always ask our guests for is what are three actionable takeaways that somebody could put into effect in their life today or this week? So what are three actionable takeaways? Dream. Allow yourself to dream. Dreams are a gateway to things actually happening, creating space for things to happen for your wildest dreams to come true.

I would say tap into your courage. Courage is a thing that I respect most in anyone. Courage to tell your truth and live your truth. And I would say action. Feel those things into action.

You can sit and talk about it, but at some point you have to do something for things to change, for things to shift. I love it. For dream, courage, action. Great takeaways. Alton, it's been such a pleasure visiting with you and thank you so much for taking the time to visit with us to share who you are and your experiences with our audience.

I think people will be so richly blessed that listen. Anybody who's listening, pick up his book. You've got to read his book. It really was a joy to read. Honestly, buy the book and listen to the audiobook because hearing him read the book too is an experience in and of itself that I just absolutely love.

So thank you so much for your kindness, for your generosity, and for inspiring many, many people. Well, let me get one more thing. You can get my book at Alton Fitzgerald-White.com. If you get it from my website, because I now own Alton Fitzgerald-White.com, I will sign it, personalize it, and send it to you. Same as you would pay on Amazon, but you get my signature and it's sent to you postage free.

Also, my Disney CD available on our website. You can get a signed copy of that, Disney My Way, where I've taken these Disney songs and given them my own arrangements, which is going to be really, really fun. And I want to leave one last thing. No matter how discouraged you may get, no matter how lonely or isolated you ever may feel, just like Mufasa says to Simba in The Lion King, if you remember those that came before you, you will also remember that in your reflection, they live in you. Absolutely wonderful.

So moving. Thank you for sharing that with us. Well, what a great opportunity we had today to speak with Alton. What an inspiration that he is. And, you know, some things that he shared with us that, you know, honestly, we had no idea going into it.

And we appreciated his vulnerability and willingness to share some really personal things with us today. And I think there's a lot of lessons that can be learned from somebody that grew up in a really tough, difficult situation, grew up in the projects, alcoholic father, dealt with some sexual abuse. And yet he found a way to push past those things, found encouragement through mentors, through teachers, through people who helped him to see what his passion was, what he was good at, give him that encouragement, put the work in both in therapy and in the work towards honing the craft that he was in to be Mufasa on Lion King, in Lion King for more than 4,000 performances. What an inspiration to anybody going through something difficult through a hard season in life that there is light at the end of the tunnel that we can keep a positive outlook. We can accept the fact that things are hard and know that going through those things are difficult, accept the emotions that come when things are really difficult and also have the hope for something more and have the hope that we can find a thing that continues to bring us joy and happiness.

I also think there's so many lessons for him, from him in endurance and perseverance. More than 4,000 performances in a show like Lion King, as the King Mufasa really shows a great depth of character, of ability to endure, to show up day after day and bring the same emotional beats, to bring the same passion to what he was doing. And I think one of the lessons we have there as well is finding moments to find other passions as well to get the break, to not just have it become too routine. And that there's real benefit in that, in finding other things that you can come back renewed. And we really appreciate his time and spending with us.

I strongly encourage you to read his book, My Pride. What a wonderful book it was. It goes into far greater depth as to his journey that he had both growing up when he was in elementary school, junior high school and high school, what his journey was like to get to Broadway and then throughout his experiences on Broadway and further lessons that he's learned. Again, what a joy it was to have him on with us. As you leave this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it.

So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.