I had a baby and so I felt like I needed safety and security but we also felt a lot of pressure from other people to get married because I didn't have at the time one trusted adult to talk to. That's so hard. Not one trusted adult all of my teen years throughout adulthood. Because he had his whole identity wrapped up into being Mr. Incredible and then when he couldn't then suddenly he like falls apart right?

Loses his job, he's just depressed all the time, he has no idea who he is. The problem is never each other. It should be you two against the problem. Not you two against each other. Nobody owes you anything but you owe yourself everything.

When we are more focused on ourselves, how we're showing up in relationships and what to improve ourselves, it's kind of like the domino effect. Everything else just works a little better and if the outcome doesn't end up being what you want it to be, then you're at least able to process it with a little bit more peace knowing that you did everything that you could. Welcome to Yes And Land where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today and we the possibility, growth and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome everybody to our next episode of Yes And Land. We are very excited today for our guest.

Our guest today is Cassie Callister. She is a life coach. She has helped coach and assist many people through some really difficult challenges in life, help them to peel back the layers, make improvements to themselves and ultimately then make improvements in their relationships. And so we're going to talk today a little bit about that, what it's like to do some work on yourself, to help make some improvements, understanding more about yourself which ultimately has benefits to the relationships in our lives and we're going to do so today through an excellent Disney Pixar movie which is The Incredibles, which is a great movie. It shows a lot about relationships, right?

Of Mr. and Mrs. Incredibles. So that'll be really fun for us to talk about that today. Yeah, excited.

So as we jump in Cassie, tell us a little bit about, let's hear a little bit about your journey. Kind of row it like all the way back. Like help everybody understand like who is Cassie, where did you come from so we can kind of see the evolution of your journey. Yeah, thank you. So I grew up around here, typical, you know, Utah gal.

I got married really young and I had my own three kids. I've had two grandbabies, one of them passed away in 2022, but I'm still a Grammy and I was divorced about eight, nine years ago and I learned a lot from that as we all do when it comes to different challenges in life. And I love that we're using The Incredibles today because I can look back at my own marriage, even dating experiences since then, and I can relate a lot to that dynamic and I think a lot of people can. And so I don't know if we'll be getting more into divorce and relationships and things But I can say that looking back on my life, a lot of how I showed up in my marriage was based off of my environment that I grew up in and how I was raised. And so it's been really fun to study the psychology of my own life experiences and study just human behavior in general so that I can better understand my own behaviors, how I showed up in my marriage, how I didn't show up and I can now help others in their journey.

Yeah, which I think is such a helpful thing. And as we talked previously, a lot of times what you're doing is helping people understand more about themselves so that they can stay married. And obviously we're talking about you're talking about the divorce attorney who I help people disconnect, I help them get divorced. But I do think I think it's a helpful dynamic to see because I've said this before on this podcast, but when people come to me and they ask if they should get divorced, I tell them that's their decision. I'm not here to tell them they should get divorced.

I'm here to help them get divorced if that's the choice they've made. If that's where they've arrived to and they've done the work and that's where they need to go, then I'll help them do it. Or if their partner's decided that and they need to navigate it, that's what I help them do. But if people can work together, work on themselves and stay together, I mean, honestly, we are all for it. I do think as well that those who do work on themselves can end up being better co-parents as well if they do have to get divorced.

There's a lot of things that I kind of want to want to peel back and want to understand a bit more. So let's go back to you said you got married young. Tell me more about that. So when you're in your life at that time, what's kind of like the motivations to get married young? What was that experience like when you were getting married young?

Yeah, so I can only speak to my experience. And at that time I was 18 years old and I had a baby. And so I felt like I needed safety and security, but we also felt a lot of pressure from other people to get married. And after all, like the father of my children and my ex-husband, we grew up together and so he was my best buddy. And so I thought, oh yeah, this is a great idea.

You know, like I had already graduated high school early, started to put myself through college and right in the beginning I thought, well, this is going to be me by myself raising this child for who knows how long. And so originally I picked a career based off of that. But then with time, he decided to propose and with a little pressure and not even really knowing what to do because we're kids. Like you don't know what to look for. You don't know how to date consciously.

You don't know what questions to ask each other. And you're basing a lot of things off of just your feelings in that moment. And so today that is one thing I help others do because I work with a lot of people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s who still don't know how to navigate relationships. And that's where I was at at 18. You get married for a lot of the wrong reasons because you don't know what you're doing.

But then when you have challenges arise or you realize that maybe you're not quite compatible, then what do you do? And so we didn't quite have the tools to navigate that. And so, yeah, I was able to learn a lot afterwards. What would you do to coach your 18 year old self knowing what you know now? You can't go back and change it because that's part of what made you who you are.

But if you were coaching somebody in that situation, how would you coach them? Yeah, I think a lot of my decisions personally stemmed from a lack of self-love. OK, a lot of my relationship choices and just decisions I made in general at that time in my life, probably from age 13 and on and after divorce. And so it's so important that we teach our kids how to love themselves and what that looks like, boundaries and what you're OK with and not OK with and just what you deserve. And so if I were to coach myself at that time, I would say to slow down and get to know yourself first and ask if you genuinely love yourself or if you are seeking people and things outside of yourself to feel that.

And I would really we we can't give what we don't have. So if I don't love myself, how can I fully love another person in the way that they deserve? And how can I fully show up in a way that serves us both? And so what that looks like for me in my marriage is, yes, I got married young. I didn't know who I was.

I didn't really know what I wanted in life. But at the time I had this gorgeous baby. I was getting my education. It seemed like the best thing to do. But there's no there was no deadline.

I didn't need to make a decision. And so I would also coach myself to slow down, figure things out, make sure that this is right for you, maybe go to therapy or get a coach, because I didn't have at the time one trusted adult to talk to. That's so hard. Not one trusted adult all of my teen years throughout adulthood. And really, it just was a negative thing.

Therapy and coaching was a negative thing. And so I felt like I had to internalize it and process it all on my own. And I honestly didn't know how. And so I'm sure we'll get to this. So in my marriage, I didn't know how to communicate.

And I also didn't have enough self-love to make sure that I got into a relationship that was best for me and with the qualities that were best for me and healthy. Yeah. When we talk about having the self-love, what's your advice there for somebody, again, in that similar situation to find that? Because I do think that that's something that we hear more about these days that, honestly, when I was growing up, we didn't. I mean, when I was that age, that was not something that was like in vogue at all.

Now I think it is, but I still think that there's this missing component. Like, what does that mean? How do you do it? Like, how do you find more of that love for who you are so that you can find more security with yourself and when you're more secure with yourself and you love yourself more, like you said, then you open yourself up to helping somebody else, loving somebody else as well. How do you do that?

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think the conversation sounds and looks different depending on age. Unfortunately, I had to figure that out at age 37. And that's not fun. And so I wish I wish these conversations happened more with our kids.

And I wish they happened more at school. But when it comes to acquiring self-love, it's not really what we think. Yes, it could be bubble baths and massages and taking yourself on vacations and buying yourself things, but that's not quite what it is. And that's not going to bring you longevity in that area. And so what self-love looks like is understanding what you're OK with and not OK with.

That looks like boundaries. That looks like I'm not going to choose self-abandonment over self-respect. I always choose self-respect, but that definition can be different for everyone. You know, what do they feel is respectful or not respectful? And so that was one of my biggest things is.

Having the courage to communicate what I'm OK with and not OK with, just growing up my whole life, I always chose to be the good girl, just be quiet, be a doormat. That's easier, the people pleaser. And in the long run, that's very damaging. And so oftentimes self-love looks like becoming curious about who you are. Why you do what you do and pouring into yourself and learning more about yourself and then creating.

A life full of people and environments and opportunities that support that love and having the courage to communicate or walk away when it doesn't. I think one of the things you mentioned there, which is, I think, really key, which is the people-pleasing component of it that can stem from that lack of self-love, because with the self-love and the confidence to say, like, oh, no, that actually doesn't work for me. Yeah. Right. But when when we just want to people please, we swallow that down.

Right. We don't have enough gumption to say, like, that doesn't work. I don't want to do that. That that's not OK. It's interesting when I was visiting with the.

Marriage and Family Therapist recently, we talked a little about the people pleasing versus teenagers kind of like pushing back. Right. And that actually he was saying he was more encouraged by a teenager really pushing back. Yeah. Because they're not going to be as much of that people pleasing.

And it might seem like the people pleaser when they're a teenager is nice because they're easy to raise. In the day, those are types of personalities that if that doesn't get fixed, we'll run into those same problems. The lack of self-love, just being a doormat, people walking all over and taking advantage of them and then more insecurity than stems from that. Right. Yeah.

And, you know, it's hard, though, right. When you're raising kids. Oh, it's a totally different ballgame. And I honestly wish I could go back and redo it with my first two kids. My third child, I have done everything differently.

And it shows. Sure. Because I do want a young man that is strong enough and has the courage enough to say, I'm not OK with this, because that's what we need in the world to have a positive impact. And those are the people that are going to change the world. They're going to be the leaders.

And when it comes to people pleasing. People only do that because it serves a purpose. People wouldn't do it if they weren't getting something out of it. And what most people are gaining out of it is they want to be liked. Very much so.

And I can see that with teens. Yeah. But also. If we're allowing kids to communicate. Why they feel a certain way, that creates a completely different conversation.

But when I work with a lot of adults that are people pleasers in relationships and they're miserable or just different situations, they they say, well, it's just easier this way. Or they really are wanting to just be liked. And they're going to continue to get the same result, which is unhappiness. And in the moment, boundaries. Or speaking up for what you believe or just even communicating how you feel.

It doesn't feel really great in the beginning when you're not used to it. But every time you do, it speaks to your soul and you become more empowered and you become stronger. And it's just another form of self-love being able to choose you over being liked. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I think you said that was interesting as well, which is that when you were 18 and you were kind of going through that and trying to figure life out that you didn't have and hadn't had adult influences in your life that you could go to.

Right. And I think really what it highlights for me is something that we've just as a society really gotten away from, which we used to do all the time, which is kids are raised by a community. Right. You know, when when when kids are getting before all this technology, before they could just dive into a phone or tablet or think that that the really the idea was the raised raised by the tribe. Right.

That's the way we always used to be. The history of man was that way. People were kids are raised by a tribe that people, other adults step in and help out. And we've gotten away from that a little bit. And I think the more positive adult influences that can be out there for kids so that they do have somewhere they could go in those hard times is really helpful.

I would guess that you've probably found the ability to be that adult influence for some kids, even if they're not your own. What's that been like? What's that experience been like in helping some of these kids actually have an adult influence? It's positive. It's been amazing.

And it's tricky at the same time. Yeah. Because. I'm a parent and I get it. And I also have helped teens and young adults, a lot of them.

And when I'm talking to teens, there is so much that they carry and internalize, and their parents have zero idea. And so I think the bigger problem is just that parents are so busy. Sure. And they're working a lot. A lot of people have had to go back to work that typically might be staying at home.

And we've got constant, you know, flood of information being thrown at us all the time through TV and social media and our phones. And there's just so much distraction for our kids and teens, just all of us. I'm really seeing a huge lack of. Connection with kids, teens and their parents, and. They're suffering.

I mean. Kids are getting younger and younger when it comes to self harm and suicidal ideation. And I've worked with some of those kids. And the biggest problem that I hear is that they don't have one trusted adult in their life that they feel like they can turn to. And so I have really tried to be that trusted adult because that I didn't have.

Yeah. And so. More than ever, it's so important to have tricky conversations with kids, even if you're not perfect at it. Just how are you feeling? How are you really doing?

How are friends and don't settle with fine or OK? And keep asking those questions and try to create that deeper connection because because kids want it, even if they're not great at communicating back. They just want to feel like they do have one trusted adult in their life. And it is it's different with parents because kids worry that they might have a consequence attached to what they share for sure. And so keeping that poker face and letting your kids know that you love them no matter what is huge.

Yeah. How do we how do we create these safe spaces, safe communities for kids to be able to have those communications? Like, how do we do that? I think it's taking time out of our busy lives, whether you're a football coach or you're a counselor or you are a teacher or you're in the neighborhood, you go to the same church, your parents, any any family. Taking the time to ask, build those connections by asking questions and commenting on even what they're wearing to start simple conversations and really getting to know kids in our community.

And just asking them what they like to do and showing a genuine interest in them. Otherwise, they just look at you like, oh, yeah, you're just someone else trying to or you're just saying that because you're my dad or, you know, and it it's really that simple. Yeah. Making eye contact, making eye contact and just having those genuine conversations, act genuinely interested in our youth. It goes so far.

It has with me. Like I have worked with teens that have come back, have invited me to their weddings, all sorts of things, because I simply took time to get to know them. Yeah. You know, I think we're in Utah, obviously, very religious state, regardless of what the religion is. I do think that when there are youth groups as part of those, it naturally comes up where you can have adult leaders, where you can have a really positive influence.

You know, just last week, my two boys are in a youth group and I had the opportunity to go on a camp out with them. And it was a really it was a fun experience because, I mean, first off, it was terrible. Right. It was heat. It is seven Utah.

It was 103 degrees out. I had to sleep at a tent, which I haven't for a long time. We had no reception and the boys weren't allowed to bring any electronic devices at all. So the leaders we could obviously were adults, so we can. Didn't matter.

I had no reception. And so because I didn't, I didn't have my phone with me ever. And it was I started to experience a little bit of what you're talking about. Right. When I didn't, when I would sit down a lot of times, I was going to go, you know, check ESPN or something.

What I would normally do or go check my work email or whatever. But I didn't have that. And so what did I end up doing? And I've asked some questions to more of the young men, to more of the boys. Hey, tell me about the sports.

Hey, you were in wrestling. Hey, and you placed in state. Tell me about that. Like, what was the experience like? Oh, that's so cool.

Like, what are you going to do now with that? Oh, you're going to go to college and do that. Oh, OK, you're going to go serve a mission or whatever it is. And it's that connection opportunity that I think with technology, we're passing up too often. Yeah.

Yeah. That when we are in those moments, we got to take advantage of them. Put the phone away, put the phone down, actually ask the questions exactly like you just said. I think it was really insightful. We said, like, just asking those questions, being genuinely interested, much like building relationships with adults, like it's the same thing with kids.

Just got to be interested. Because everything that you do leaves a mark. And so if that that kid's in trouble or he's struggling and he's too scared to go to his parents, you might be one of the top three to five people that he knows he can reach out to because you took the time to make that connection. It goes a long way. And it does.

And then the same thing, obviously, as we're talking about, I mean, obviously applies to adult relationships as well, like creating those connections, asking those questions, I think is really helpful for us just to have more connection in our lives. And when we do, I do think that helps. We we all do like to be liked, but we we can be liked in ways that are genuine because we create genuine connections. It doesn't have to be because we're people pleasers. It can be because we do have boundaries and we use those boundaries to create better connection.

Something I heard a therapist say recently, which is that's that's the idea of boundaries. Boundaries isn't to make less connection. It's actually to have better connections with the right guardrails. In place. So those connections can be good and solid.

So when we talk about this idea of like self-love and kind of understanding and working on ourselves a little bit more, one kind of walk down that path a little bit. What where where did that come from for you? So as you kind of experience this, getting married too young, having to overcome some people policing stuff and start working on yourself. When did you start really working on yourself? And how did you see that start to evolve?

I have been studying myself for over 10 years now because I was pretty sick of suffering. I was sick of not understanding. Other people's behavior, too, and how it was impacting me. And so really just in an effort to understand my life, because I think once we understand our life experiences and ourselves, then we don't feel so out of control or like instantly think something must be wrong with me. And so for me, it really began a year or two before I got divorced because I realized, OK, I don't even dare communicate in my marriage.

And that's not a him problem. That's a me problem. And so it kind of started there at first. But then I mean, when you get married really young and you've never not had kids, you really I really didn't take the time to know who I was, what I wanted. My life was basically defined by at the time where my standing was in the church that I belonged to, how big my house was, what car I drove and how good of meals I cooked.

And so when I got thrown back out into the dating world and people would ask me, what do you like to do? I couldn't even say anything because I had abandoned myself so much. So that was part that was a stepping stone in my journey. And little by little, I discovered who I was and what I wanted and what personally brought me joy. And I think with anything, like I mentioned before, I lost my first grandchild.

And oftentimes, that those types of challenges, it really makes you take a look at yourself. And you kind of have to when you experience great degree of trauma like that, because you're back in that survival mode of like, oh, my gosh, like, how do I be OK again? And so I would say about four years ago, it really threw me into this deep dive of what do I genuinely believe? What do my spiritual practices look like meditation and and sound baths? And what do I really like to do?

And what can I bring to the world and what is my purpose? And I found all of that through that hard experience because I realized that the things that I have been through in my life were just stepping stones to me discovering who I am so that I can help other people. Yeah. Take me back to this experience, if if you don't mind of losing a grandchild. Yeah.

What kind of walk us through, you know, how how old who was who was your child that had that grandchild and then kind of what happened? Yeah. So it was my oldest daughter. It was her first child. And she was in her early 20s.

And I mean, we just absolutely adored him. He Zuri Zuri. He was the center of our world. It was so fun to babysit. Oh, my goodness.

But about seven months in, he was seven months old. She simply took him to a doctor's visit and he they told her that he had a bug. And about six days later, he passed away in primary children's due to bacterial meningitis, and they still don't know how he got it. It was a rare strain. And there are lots of details that go into that story.

A lot of things that are unknown, a lot of things that happened in in that entire that little nutshell of of the experience that I just shared. But I think what was the hardest thing about all of that is it was a different type of grief and trauma than I'd personally ever experienced. And I've had a lot of that. And I would always say, you know, I've experienced just about a bit of everything to some degree, but I hope I never have to experience losing a child because that would be the worst. And to watch to be so close to him and have him suddenly and tragically pass away after them saying, oh, it's just a bug.

Go home, you know, come back if he has a fever. And to go through that, but then watch my daughter go through it. It was so extremely painful because I feel like I always knew, like, what to do and or how to find answers if I didn't know what to do or how to find support. And that's really why I became trauma informed, because I did not understand. Grief and how we all grieve differently.

And I was taking it very personally in the beginning, and I didn't even understand my own behavior. Like one day I'm super happy, the next day I can't stop crying. And so that whole experience was a complete nightmare. And I just can't imagine how she must have felt because I know how great the I was grieving and how how traumatic it was for me. So I cannot even begin to imagine how she must feel and what she's gone through.

And still today I look back and I'm like, what could I have done better? And it's just really hard because I still today I'm like, OK, am I doing the right thing? And and I think that's just that's a huge part of my work and and how I help people being trauma informed, because we can't judge people based off of how they decide to process grief. And that can look a lot of different ways, whether it's divorce or death. And so trauma shows up differently in everyone.

And everyone can exhibit different behavior. Some people will pull away and some people want to be around people all of the time. And and it's trauma is a very complicated thing. And I was really surprised by how. Judgmental, some people have been about how others process grief and trauma.

And and I if I could say anything speaking to that is that. Sometimes you don't need to say anything when somebody is grieving or hurting. Your presence is your superpower in that moment. And that we need to really release judgment when it comes to people that have experienced what I call trauma with a big T, like big life things that have happened and. Really, empathy can look like you just being there and you not needing to say the right thing or you might not even know what to do.

But sometimes it's OK to ask the other person, how can I show up for you? I love you and I want to be here for you. What does that look like for you in the moment? Because I felt so helpless and. And I think it's important that when someone is processing something to take the ego out of it and not take.

Their actions personally, it's not about you. And put your ego on the shelf and put your. Always give someone the most generous assumption and try to meet them at their feelings. Yeah. You know, when you're when you're going to go into this experience, I think you're faced with an interesting dichotomy here, which is one, you've got to grieve the loss of your grandbaby.

And then on the other hand, you're trying to support your daughter. What was that like for you to try to navigate those two seemingly opposite things at times? A nightmare? I because she grieves differently than I do. And so it was really confusing for me.

And. The way I grieve is I like. I wanted people to show up for me, but I didn't always want to talk about it. But the way that. I try to be there for others is like, I want to be there for them all the time.

Let's talk about this. What can I do? And like in their space and for someone that. And I can't I can't say how she feels that she grieves, but if you are the type of person that typically pulls away or shuts down and you don't want to be around other people for someone like me, it's like get out of my face. Mom or whoever, and just leave me alone and let me process this on my own.

But when you're a parent or you're another family member or friend and you're seeing someone else grieve, like you want to do something to help. But you don't always have the answers. And so I felt like it was just a mess because I really was in survival mode myself. And when you are in survival mode, you're I mean, if you look at the psychology of things, you're in fight or flight. You you're in your animalistic part of your brain.

You're not even in the front part of your brain, which is the thinking part of your brain. You can't problem solve. You can't make decisions. And so I was planning a funeral and doing all these things by myself while also not being OK, while also knowing she's suffering and not knowing what to do. And it just felt like trying to get through each day, like just take it day by day, minute by minute sometimes, and just draw on my own support system I had at the time.

And definitely therapy, a lot of therapy. Did you have at that time, did you have other adults that you could rely on to provide you support? Yeah, I had a lot of great girlfriends and family members that it's complicated because people that love you, they want to show up for you, but they also don't know what to say and they don't know what to do. And it's just awkward. And sometimes people are extremely offensive when they're just trying to say the right thing or they're trying to validate your feelings.

And so especially online. They once people kind of saw this, what our family was going through in this little viral video, there were a lot of comments made to my daughter that were pretty offensive. But I know that it was people trying to be like, oh, hey, this happened to me, too. And I'm trying to validate her experience in that way. Besides just kind of being there for somebody, what did you find was the most helpful thing that people said?

And then I'm also interested, what was the most hurtful thing that maybe people said, even if they were well intended? I think the most helpful thing that people did was just ask how they can help. Just ask. Like, if you don't know, just ask and just be there. Like in that moment, I didn't even know what I needed.

And I think the most offensive things that you can say to people that are grieving, regardless of the type of grief is, especially with with death. You'll see him again one day. Or. Everything happens for a reason. Another one is.

Invalidating someone's experiences by sharing your own and what that looked like in her case was, oh, yeah, I had a miscarriage and it was so sad. It's like she was actually raising this child. He had a personality. Yeah. And so I think.

When. Sympathy is very different than empathy. Empathy is like you're sitting with them in their feelings, even if you don't understand them. And sympathy is kind of like trying to find the silver lining when that's not what the person needs in that moment or its toxic positivity. So you'll be OK.

You'll be fine. Just here. Let's go get a drink. And just really trying to I can see how, you know, not everybody knows how to deal with some grieving. And so that's their way of like trying to help.

But it's really invalidating. And like I said, sometimes we just need to sit with people. And acknowledge, I don't know even what to say or do, but I'm here and I love you. And I can't imagine what you must be going through right now. Yeah.

You know, it occurs to me. One of the things you said is that just, you know, letting them know like, hey, what can I do to help? And I think if I could add to that and I'd love your take on it, maybe also adding like, you know, what can I do to help? And if it's nothing, that's OK. If it's just be here with you, that's OK.

And if it's that you just need to be alone, that's OK, too. Because I think sometimes what I've heard, the feedback that I've heard from other people is when everybody is asking what they can do, it's like, I don't know, that puts my burden on me to try to figure out what you can do to help. And I don't know what you can do to help. Right. Like I just need to be alone or I just need, you know, maybe I just need you just to be here, not, you know, pepper me with questions.

And and I do think that. Like being present with somebody, you said a number of times, I think it's just it really hits home for me. I think it's exactly right. I think sometimes just being there. Yeah.

You know, we don't have the right things to say. Nobody knows exactly the perfect thing to say. We don't know. We can all try. We try and perfectly.

Sometimes it's just being there. Absolutely. And that can carry a that can carry a lot, you know, a lot of like impact is having that person know that you're there, that you're not judging. You're not judging them for anything that they're experiencing the way that they experience grief. You talked about like, let them experience it the way they need to.

Just be there for them. We talk as well about kind of the way that we we work on things for ourselves, right? And the way that we can appeal back the layers of ourselves to understand ourselves better, which can then ultimately help us to process things like grief better and process the trauma we have better. You know, this is this is where we start to start talking about, especially like marriages and how people communicate and working on themselves. It's why before we talked about doing the Incredibles, because it's such a good example for us to look through this lens.

So I wrote in a couple of a couple of quotes from the movie that I kind of want to ask you about as well. Some others from some some people that we both done a lot of reading of like John Gottman. But let me first take you to a quote from Helen Parr, who's Mrs. Incredible, and she's talking with Bob. Right.

And one of the things she says to me, I think was really interesting. She says, I love you. But if we're going to make this work, you've got to be more than Mr. Incredible. You know that, don't you?

Because he had his whole identity wrapped up into being Mr. Incredible. And then when he couldn't, then suddenly he like falls apart, right? Loses his job. He's just depressed all the time.

He has no idea who he is. You know, it's kind of sounding a little bit like what you experience, right? You're doing things for somebody else all the time. Don't really know who you are. And so he's kind of lost in these moments.

And so how many times do you we think it's like for people when they kind of find themselves in that experience of like they thought that this was the thing like you had and then kind of realized like, oh, like being Mr. Incredible or being who everybody else wants me to be all the time is actually not it. That's not what's going to bring me connection in this life. Yeah. So my brain is going all different directions because when you're speaking to that, I'm just thinking about how actually men and women are so different and that I think it's more about men and women understanding their differences and being OK with that and trying to meet each other's needs over saying, hey, you need to change because control is not love.

Authenticity is love. And so we need to be OK with the way our person is, you know, when we met them. And if we're not because when you meet someone, you get the whole package. Sure. You get all their stuff.

You get parts of their personality and habits that you might not like. And you might get choose to be with someone that works long hours, whatever it is. But if you choose that, changing your mind, how many years later? That's that's not quite love because authenticity is letting somebody be who they are. So in the case of the Incredibles, he is like a lot of men I work with.

And it's pretty true to science. What I've learned is for men. What's most important to them is who they are and how they got there. Third, how much money they make. That's a big part of their identity.

And they might not talk about it. They might not show it. But men pride themselves on that. A lot of the men that I work with, women are so much more complicated. Men need way less.

Women need way more. It's our biology. And that's OK. And so with men, they want to be. Appreciated and respected.

They want physical intimacy. Women are very emotional and they need their emotional needs met. And so you have when you have two people on a marriage that are biologically completely different. And they come with all their own life experiences and their lens that they view the world through. It's a wonder that any marriage is even last.

If you think about it that way and completely different communication style sometimes and the way they handle conflict resolution. And so in the case of the Incredibles, you have this guy that's like doing everything that he thought he was supposed to do. And he's out there saving people. Some like the way that kind of comes to a head where suddenly all the supers can't be out there anymore is because some guy jumps off a building to his death and he saves the guy. He saves his life and then gets sued.

Right. So yeah, knock on attorneys. But yeah, so he goes from this zone of doing what he thinks is right. Saving people's lives, literally saving people's lives to all of that is stripped away. And he can't do any of that anymore.

Completely loses that part of himself. Yeah, his identity. And so I work, I have worked with hundreds of men and it's seriously the same story about why their relationships or marriages are not working. And a lot of times it's. It's not working because they don't feel appreciated and respected.

But then their wife or partner isn't getting her needs met either. And so he's over here going, but I protect them, I provide for my family. It's exactly what she wanted. And I put I've given them this beautiful life. What more could she ask for?

And she's over here going, well, we never spend time together. And there's no emotional intimacy. And so both people are hurting and not having their needs met. And they're just both different. And they're both thinking they're doing the right thing.

And so in the case of the Incredibles, it's just a lot like these men that I work with. And sometimes even men, I don't know if you have ever read the book, man's search for purpose, but a lot of times when men get older, if they happen to be divorced, their kids start to grow up and leave the house. They really struggle because if they are divorced and they're not in a relationship, they don't feel like they have someone to protect and provide for. And their kids have maybe moved on and they're older and they have their own lives and so a lot of men at that time in life kind of struggle because they're like, what's my purpose? Like I'm inherently like I love to protect and provide for my family.

And that's a huge part of my identity. What do I do now? Yeah. And so I work with men and that life transition as well. And it all just kind of ties together and makes sense because just like Mr.

Incredible, he had an identity and if it's stripped away, he's like, well, who am I? And I think the biggest thing about that movie that I love is something that I think everybody deals with, which is sometimes along the way we forget that we're a team, that it's not your, you know, he was kind of doing secret missions on the side and she's got her thing and, and then before you know it, the marriage is falling apart and the problem is never each other. It should be you two against the problem, not you two against each other. And that's why I think this is a great example for that. Yeah.

I think you're, you're, you're still spot on here and there's so many things I want to dive into with that. One is about this idea of their Mr. Mrs. Incredible's relationship with each other and how it deteriorates and how that is a type for the things that we do wrong. And part of it is this quote from John Gottman that I love, where he said, trust is built in very small moments, which I call sliding door moments.

In any interaction, there's a possibility of connecting with your partner or turning away from your partner. One such moment, one such moment is not important, but if you're always choosing to turn away, then trust erodes in a relationship very gradually, very slowly, right? Where a lot of times we'll hear this idea of like, okay, well, I'm sitting here providing, I'm doing all these things. And then we turn around a few years later and then you're not communicating at all. And neither partners needs are being met and it's not communicating.

And it, it's built on all these times of just turning away when those opportunities come up, rather than turning to each other, right? The two of you against the problem. And so Mr. Mrs. Incredible, right?

That's what they do. He's turning away from her doing a secret mission. She's turning away from him and, you know, trying to focus on them, not using their superpowers and taking care of the kids and they're just not communicating at all, right? They're not meeting in the middle. They're not encountering these problems.

They're doing them totally separately. Um, so kind of want to get your take on that of like building the trust in these relationships so that you actually turn to each other to encounter the problems. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to do that. And I think it's very situational, but I think it starts with creating safety around conversations that have to do with that. So if every time your partner comes to you, you get defensive when they want to bring up something, they're probably going to stop doing it.

Or if on the flip side, when you approach them with some troubles that you're having about something, if you don't know how to communicate that as a loving truth teller, then your partner is not going to want to engage. And so I think trust first starts with being able to communicate and a loving, healthy way where both people feel seen and understood. You don't have to agree and you don't even have to completely understand the other person, but validate their feelings. Even if you or validate their experience of the situation, cause you can see things differently, but validate their experience and then try to understand them and just get the conversation going because nothing can ever be resolved in a relationship if you can't first speak about it. So I love that you went there because what I had written down next to my notes is for us to have you put on your coaching hat with Bob Mr.

Incredible because so he's, he can't be a super anymore. Right. And so he's at this job that he hates and then he gets fired and then he doesn't tell Mrs. Incredible. Yeah.

It doesn't tell her. So let's say in this moment, Bob came to you. He's like, Cassie, I need some help. I need some coaching. What would you coach him to in those moments to help trying to work on himself and then also, you know, make sure he's building on positive communication and ability to communicate with his wife.

Yeah. So I, I would do a lot of things with Bob. Good. So I would do a lot of things simultaneously. So I would have Bob really make a list of his qualities because I think sometimes when, if you've ever encountered job loss or things like that, it can chip away self-worth.

And I see it a lot too, with men that have betrayal trauma. And I like to remind men of who they are because when you have crappy things happen, it's really easy to self blame. And it's really easy to tear yourself apart because you can control that. So people will just tell themselves all sorts of stories. I like to empower men by reminding them of who they are, not just their inherent qualities that they were born with, but the value that they've added to themselves along the way.

I also like to challenge their core beliefs and challenge the narratives that they're telling themselves about a situation. And sometimes maybe in Bob's case, it would be, Oh, she's going to be so mad at me. She's going to want to leave me. I'm such a loser. I don't even have a job.

I can't provide for my family. I suck, whatever it is. And I would challenge him on that and say, do you really, like, are you really going to get a divorce? Do you know that 100% without a shadow of a doubt? Do you know that's what's going to happen?

The answer is usually no. Or if someone says, Oh, I think it might. I say, okay, what evidence do you have to support that? That thought is 100% true. That story that you're telling yourself.

Usually it's not any evidence. And so a lot of times we get ourselves so worked up and so upset based off of a bunch of thoughts that aren't even true. And so that's one thing that I would do with Bob and that I do with all my clients is challenge the thoughts that you're thinking that are creating certain emotions that are leading you to spiral and just flounder and not know what to do. Because once we can control our inner world and our thoughts, we can control our outer world, including our relationships. And so I would also teach Bob to get out of that black and white thinking and that doomsday thinking that the worst thing will always happen.

Um, I, that's another way of challenging beliefs that I, I believe we always tend to assume the worst and if we can really play through from beginning to end, what might happen at the end of the day, we'll live, we'll still be alive. It's okay. We can do it. And so those are a few things I would start with, but yeah, Bob, Bob and Helen there are lots of different directions that we could go with them. Well, and then they, they continue to evolve in this, which is why it's, I mean, I think it's such an informative movie to watch for a relationship dynamics and the way that things play out a little bit later after Bob goes on these secret missions and then it kind of gets exposed.

And then suddenly his family's trying to help and, and, and it's looking bleak, right before they ended up being able to prevail. And when it's kind of looking bleak and he's talking with his wife, he just, he looks at her and he just says, I'm not, I'm not strong enough. And I think it's right in line with what you're talking about where, you know, when his identity was I'm protecting, I'm serving, I'm providing that's now all taken away. I start to get that back, but because they haven't fully resolved their relationship, right? He was still hiding things.

He was still not fully communicating with her and having that trust. Now he's feeling the culmination of like, it's too much. I can't do it. I'm not strong enough. I'm not strong enough.

And so what's your, what would be your advice then? So now he's gone through all this stuff. He's realizing that he actually does have a purpose. He's, but he's feeling like he's not strong enough to be able to handle this situation. So what's really cool about that part and something great that Bob did that I want to make sure that I told him he was just excellent at is finally being transparent because I forgot to mention that a minute ago, transparency will always invite emotional intimacy.

Even if it feels scary, always go with transparency over being comfortable. But along with transparency is when he was vulnerable, vulnerability is doesn't feel great either because vulnerability exposes you to possibly getting a reaction that might hurt or with some men feeling shamed for being vulnerable because a lot of men grew up with, you don't cry, suck it up. And so I would definitely compliment him and make sure that he was able to acknowledge that he did the right thing. But moving forward after being vulnerable, I think it's not all on Bob anymore. It's on Helen to thank him for being vulnerable and providing now it's her turn to provide a safe container for him to open up and then work together as a team because it's not always a man that should do that.

You also need to provide that as a woman. It can look differently and it can feel differently, but many to feel safe too. Men need to feel validated too. They need to feel love. They need to feel compassion and they need to know that when they're not 100% well that they don't even have to be 100% all the time.

That's, that's not even realistic. Some days he might be 80 and she's 20 and other days she might be the 80 and he's the 20. And so I think it now she needs to put on that hat of like, okay, thank you for sharing this with me. What do you need from me? How can I support you?

How can we get through this? I love you. We've got this no matter what. And I think that's why a lot of people hesitate to be vulnerable or share, be transparent is because they're so worried that the other person is going to leave them. And in this case, like Helen could have, I don't even remember what she says, but she could have said all sorts of things to where he would shut down and spiral even more.

Yeah. And instead what Helen, and then ultimately the kids do too, is they all show up for him. Right. And they're like, we're in this together, you know, and then suddenly they're taking on this huge challenge, which obviously in the movie is, you know, this, this robot and this villain, right. They're taking this on, but that's really just an example of things in our lives that we have to encounter.

And they do it together as a family, which is really, which is really cool, right. That they come this resolution realizing like, well, let me go back to, because it reminded me earlier when you were talking, we're like, what his purpose is. I mean, he was a superhero, right? He saved people. And then he went away from that.

And he didn't have that. And he starts doing it secretly, which isn't good for him to do it secretly. But I think what it starts to reveal is like, okay, no way. He actually does have a purpose where if he can be fulfilling the purpose of being Mr. Incredible, being super strong, saving people, that's actually what his purpose was.

It just needs to be done in the right way. So then when his family knows about it, he's able to be open about it. He and Helen can communicate about it. His kids know is doing it. Now, suddenly he starts stepping into his own.

Yeah. Then he can become a fuller version of himself where he can embrace the strength that he has and build a relationship with Helen and build a relationship with his kids. And one of the things that kind of has in the end where he's verbalizing this realization he's coming to, he was like, I was so obsessed with being undervalued that I undervalued all of you talking to his family. So caught up in the past that I almost missed it. You are my greatest adventure.

And I almost missed it. And it was this really nice way to kind of wrap it up of like he's realizing and coming to realization they're better together. But he had to figure himself out too. Right. He couldn't, he couldn't just be this guy that wasn't fulfilling a purpose, was just sitting there in a cubicle working for an insurance company that was horrible.

Right. That wasn't the real version of himself. He had to peel back the layers, find it, step into that, and then he could be a better father and a better husband. Absolutely. Which I think is kind of fun.

Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you another quote too, because going back to this idea of being vulnerable, we all know, Bernie Brown, right? Talks about vulnerability as much as anybody. And she said, we can only love others as much as we love ourselves.

Shame, blame, disrespect, betrayal, and the withholding of affection damaged the roots from which love grows. What's your take on that quote? I love it. I love her. I, I strongly believe in that.

And I, I believe that by creating emotional safety and vulnerability, it, it invites more of that. And so I think that it's, it's impossible to be vulnerable if you don't feel safe. And so if you don't have respect and all of those other things that you mentioned, then it's not going to provide a space or invite vulnerability at all. And it's really hard to have any type of relationship without that. They're pretty surface level if you don't.

And so all of those things that you listed, all those things that she lists are really just kind of like, don't do that, don't do this. But I like to think of it in a positive way of like respect and safety and those types of qualities provide a space for people to be vulnerable with you. And they're more likely to be vulnerable if you, if you can show up that way. Yeah. And I think, I think what you said actually is an interesting take on it because I think we can take the positive spin on each one of these things about what to do.

How do we not shame or blame? Well, we be curious. We, we be curious. We, we assume positive intent. We find out more when someone's saying those things, we're not going to shame them or blame them, we're going to find out, oh, hey, help me understand that more.

Oh, I'm really curious about what, what that was like for you. What were you experiencing in them? What was your perspective about that thing that happened? Right. Validating, like you said earlier, how do we, opposite disrespect, obviously be respectful of those things, be kind in the communications about those things.

Even if we don't understand them, we can still be kind in the way that we have the communication to try to dig a little bit deeper. And so it's almost like we can take the opposite of these things to find out what to do, how to be positive and proactive and making sure that we're building those connections better. Another quote here, no problem. I want to get your take on this one too, because I think this is right in line with what you've kind of taught us today. She said, you are responsible for the energy you bring and how you show up.

You are responsible for waking up every day and doing the work to make progress on what matters. Nobody owes you anything, but you owe yourself everything. Get your take on that. So when I hear that, I think about accountability and self-awareness and. It all kind of ties into the let them theory that she created as well, but it she's right.

She's absolutely right. We cannot control another person. We cannot make them feel the way we want them to show up in the way that we want them to. But when we focus on ourselves and what our contributions are to our relationship or lack thereof, or what maybe our contributions were to a challenging conversation or argument, when we are more focused on ourselves, how we're showing up in relationships and what we're doing to improve ourselves, then everything it's kind of like the domino effect. Everything else just works a little better.

And if the outcome doesn't end up being what you want it to be, then you're at least able to process it with a little bit more peace, knowing that you did everything that you could. And that is 100% something that I stand by in every situation in my own personal life. I genuinely tried to do everything that I could and learn all I could about myself and essentially did my homework before I've had to end certain relationships because we are responsible. We are adults and we are responsible for communicating our needs. We are responsible for how we show up and we can't control the outcomes.

But life is a lot better when you can look yourself in the mirror and say, I did everything. I really showed up my best in this situation at work or in my marriage or with this relationship. And I sought help when I didn't know what to do and I educated myself. And I think when it comes to what I like to call life college, we're all in life college together. People are our teachers.

It's a lot easier to navigate when you are more focused on what you can do better and pouring into yourself than worried about what everybody else should be doing. Take your finger, point it back at you instead of blaming other people for how you act or how you show up in the world and focus on what you can change. You know, as you as you talked about that, one of the things that I took away is once you do everything you can, give yourself that grace that you did. Because I think it's easy, even if it's not an overall relationship, even if it's just one particular argument or disagreement, if you bring everything you can to it, you bring kindness, you bring patience, you bring validation, understanding, it still might not turn out the way you want. The other person still might not receive it.

You still might not reach a resolution at that point in time, accepting that that part might be out of your control is hard, but I also think it's essential to do. Yeah, I recognize we tried the other part of her theory of like, let them. Is let me what am I going to do now? Yeah. And how am I going to like in the, in the example of a relationship, am I going to continue this relationship?

Am I going to continue to try to have these conversations? And we get to decide what we do after that. After maybe someone has shown us who they are over and over and over. We have really tried. Yeah, so good.

So what, what should I have asked you that I haven't asked you yet? Oh my goodness. There are so many things. Just kidding. You're like, you really missed the boat, right?

And because there's about a hundred, I'm kidding. It's like, Oh, I messed up. There are just so many layers here. Right. I don't think there's anything you should have asked me.

I think that this conversation went where it was supposed to go. And I think that anybody listening to it will get exactly what they need from it based off of where they're at in their life. But at the end of the day, we all have relationships, relationships with ourself, with others and with life. And so I think that from our conversation, people will get from it what they need. And part of what I love about just storytelling in general, and I do think that Disney does a particularly good job of it, but really any story is that if we take the time to look a little deeper, there's so much there that we can learn from to improve our lives.

I mean, to be honest, even when I was preparing for this, I didn't realize the depth of some of these things in relationship between Bob and Helen that you pulled out. Like I learned in this conversation about some of these things that help me understand relationships better. And so I just love storytelling because of that. It helps pull things out. So before we get to our three actionable takeaways, before we get there, we're going to do a couple of fun segments.

Okay. You ready for these? Okay. Okay. Maybe.

Yes. You're like, Oh, a little trepidatious about this. That's okay. The first one's going to be this or that. Okay.

So you simply make the selection of which one you think it is. No explanation required unless you want to give it. Okay. You want to give it, give it all day. Okay.

You ready? Here we go. Okay. Okay. Mr.

Incredible or Elastigirl? Mr. Incredible. Okay. Okay.

He's pretty rad. Like when he's lifting the trains and stuff, like, okay, he's awesome. Yeah, he's cool. Um, let's see Disneyland or Disney World. Land.

Disneyland. I mean, out here in the West, we tend to go to Disneyland quite a bit more. Probably had that experience as well. I want to talk to people on the East coast. It's usually the opposite because they're closer and they've been to Disney World more, um, morning routine or late night, late night.

You're a late night gal. I shouldn't be. You shouldn't be, you're like, well, I know that I should spend, uh, are you an early riser, but it's just miserable or, you know, I've just never been a morning person, but it's like, sometimes my brain just works so good at night. Yeah. But it's when I should be asleep and then I feel miserable in the morning and the whole cycle just continues.

So it, I found it interesting as I like had to really train myself to be a morning person to me, it took years of doing it so that I could, uh, what used to be at night is when I did some great thinking has now transitioned to the morning. Um, and so in the morning, when I do, when I know one else was awake, uh, uh, I'm, I'm the only one that's, you know, at least in my household or seems like in the world, right. It's awake. Um, boy, my brain function is so good now, but it took, took a long time to get there with not an easy feat. Um, okay.

Movie night at home or ladies night out. Movie night at home all the way. Okay. I am a grandma. You're a grandma, right?

You fell over the clubs and all the things you get to watch these cute movies. I just want to snuggle at home. Yeah. Snuggle with your grandbaby. Yeah.

Those snuggles are the best. I like to be alone too. Okay. Yeah. There you go.

I love to be alone. To you. Yes. Do you solo travel ever? Yes.

And you love it. Love it. Oh, I just went to, I actually like Florida more than California, but I prefer Disneyland. But yeah, I just went to Florida for 10 days. We're in Florida.

The panhandle 30A that area. 30A. Is that what you called it? It's 30. Yeah.

It's a highway and it has like all these beach towns like Alice beach. It's all white. It looks like Greece. Okay. Tell me, cause I, I'm relatively ignorant for Florida things, but I know one city.

Tell me if it's in this area you're talking about, but Panama city beach. Is that somewhere in that area? I mean, I am not an expert, but I did not go there, but it. Sure. Yeah.

We went there once. My wife had decided we were going to go there. And I mean, some of the most beautiful white sand beaches that you'll ever see. It is there. Yeah.

We're stepping on it. She, cause she'd been there before. She told me like, it's so soft. And I was like, how soft can it really be? Cause I'm used to California and that sands pretty grainy.

Totally different. Love California. It's just different. And I walked on it for the first time. I'm like, it's like walking on powdered sugar.

Oh yeah. It's you literally feel like you're in the Maldives. The water is clear and the sand is like fine. Like sugar. I flew into Panama city.

Hello. Did you forget that? PCV Panama city beach. But I would say that 30 a is prettier than that. And like on your way to Destin.

Yeah. So I'm going to give that a shot then. Hiking or running. Hiking. Hiking.

Where, where's a good hike around, around these parts. Around these parts. You could do Bell's Canyon, but further south is prettier. Like Stewart falls up by Sundance. Okay.

Yeah. Love it. Spa day or adventure day. Spa day. We'll have a good spa day.

Yeah. I can, I can, I can get down with a good spa day. I'll tell you what I, I'm a little bit of a prima donna sometimes. So I think I'm just getting old or something. I just don't like, I took my kids to Costa Rica last summer and they're teenage boys and, and adult boys.

And so I'm like, okay, this is going to be an epic trip. So we went hard for 10 days and I got back and was like, I need a vacation from the vacation. So true. Like I started building in a buffer day. Cause if I don't and I go too hard somewhere, like it's just like, oh my goodness and work the next day is horrible.

I got to have a buffer. Yeah. Yeah. Smart. Okay.

Last one of this or that cooking at home or trying a new restaurant. I think I got burnout for cooking for my family for so long. And so I would prefer a restaurant, but I do meal prep every Sunday and have all my healthy meals to go. I don't like it though. Oh, I just meal prepping is so hard for me.

It's so hard. I know I need to do it and I've done it in the past, but it's just, it's tough. Okay. Here's a rapid fire. Okay.

I'm going to mix it up a little bit though. I'm going to throw one in here. That was unexpected. Uh, favorite restaurant since we're on the topic of it. It's not even going to be one you guys know.

Cause it's like a little po dunk Mexican restaurants. Amazing. Let's hear it. We ran churrito. Where at?

And Payson, Utah. And Payson. Got to go to the little Payson. With a diet Coke. Oh, so great.

Uh, me rancherito. Okay. Cause there's a me ranchito just down the road here, which I do love. Los Hermanos too. Improvo.

That's great. Some good ones. But the farther you go, the Mexican food isn't as great. There are phenomenal restaurants in Salt Lake County and this area. It's true.

But the restaurant really good ones. Mexican restaurants are down south. Okay. I love it. Favorite Disney movie.

People are going to think this is lame, but I'm owning it. Emperor's New Groove. Cause it's like the only one that makes me laugh out loud. Yeah. I love it.

We talked about this earlier, but like it is such a cult classic now. Um, it has just gained so much momentum. Like people love that movie. I don't even know if it's represented a Disney man, but it's it's funny. It's not, but kind of, I'm going to say why it's kind of, because, uh, the guy that played putty and Seinfeld.

He was a voice and Emperor's New Groove. And then he's the guy that's like the intro guy for Soren. Uh, who I love. His voice is so distinct. I think he's, is it Grok or Gronk?

Yeah. Whatever the character is. Um, he, he does that voice and it's, he's just got such a great voice that's so distinctive. I love that guy. Um, favorite Disney song.

This is a hard one. I should have prepared for this one. Um, I don't think I don't want to say the cheesy one that's on my mind. Let's hear it. Okay.

There's so many cheesy. I'm not saying this is my current favorite song. I'm just saying, I remember being a teenager and I vividly remember being in my bedroom. I don't know how old am I? I don't know.

I was, we're going to say young teen, so I don't sound so lame in my room, singing colors of the wind from Pocahontas. I just like felt so cool singing that. It's a great song though. I'm not saying that's my favorite song. Okay.

I got to do some research. Still a great song. Like I, Pocahontas, like the movie itself was, it was okay for me, but the songs were really good. Like when I listened to him now, like my kids really like him because it's got some great songs and colors of the wind is one of those excellent songs. I don't, I don't fall you for it might not be your favorite, but I'll fall for it being pretty high.

Favorite Disney princess. Oh, I used to always dress up as Cinderella and Tinkerbell because it was just easy. Yeah. It's of my blonde hair. So I'm going to say those two.

Well, Cinderella is a classic. Many, many people have Cinderella as their favorite Disney princess. Um, favorite podcast you are listening to right now. Oh, I have so many. I would say Gabrielle Bernstein's dear Gabby podcast.

Dear Gabby. Okay. I have not listened to that one. Going to have to add it to the mix. I don't know if it's her thing, but what is it?

Think of her as like a prophet of love and spiritual guide. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'll listen to anything once I'll give a shot. I'll listen to an episode.

Um, favorite self-help book. Ooh, that's hard. She is one of my favorite authors too. It depends on what you need, but you know what? I'm going to go with it because her book was the very first one I read after divorce and it changed my life.

Gabrielle Bernstein, the universe has your back. Okay. Okay. Good. We'll, we'll add that one.

We'll add that one to the mix, right? We're going to put that little link to that one, right? We'll shout her out, right? If it's a great book that helps you like, we'll give it a shot. We'll put it out there for people.

Um, well, that's the end of our rapid fire. That wasn't so bad. That was great. I thought it was way more Disney stuff. Yeah.

I rolled it back. I rolled it back. When you said you're intimidated, I was like, well, we're all back. No big deal. I'm not going to go on for Disney stuff for, for hours and hours.

Um, ask me 10, 15 years ago. Yeah. You've been pulling out. You're going to start hitting it though, because if you've got a little three year old, uh, uh, grandbaby, uh, that three year old is going to start. Yeah, she has.

Well, so what we always like to do, Cassie is we like to end each episode with three actionable takeaways to provide to our audience of three specific things they can put into action in their lives today or this week. So what are your three recommended actionable takeaways? First, give people the most generous assumption. Love it. Second, turn to love over fear.

Always choose love over fear. Third, take a look at become curious about, and first work on the relationship with yourself, your relationship with life, and then their relationship with others. So good. That's excellent. And the more that we do the relationship with ourselves, then the next one's fall in line, right?

Then it's easier to have the relationship with, um, our spouses, with our kids, with those around us, those things just kind of build on each other. Yeah. I love that. It's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for being, uh, with us today.

Yes. And land, uh, for talking through, um, the Incredibles, which is such a fun show, looking at relationships, looking at how we can have more self love, work on ourselves, also work through grief, uh, not being judgmental, assuming positive intent, um, as you said, so again, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. As you lead this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey.

See you real soon.