I didn't realize not only how much I loved it, but how good I was at it. Can I say that? I realize, you know, I genuinely love people and this job has provided such an outlet for me to create relationships, share my story, learn from other people, and it's been fantastic. His whole legs were turning black and it was only getting worse and they just said it's gone septic and there's nothing we can do. I remember the physician telling me it's like a freight train going 200 miles an hour.

We can't stop it. We're here because the ocean told you you're special and you believed it. She says the ocean shows me and he says it shows wrong. I am so much more capable than people know and it was almost a challenge to myself that like I can do more than what I'm doing. I love that I'm strong but I'm resentful sometimes with how strong I am.

It would be nice to be weak sometimes. I am. I'm in that season of becoming. I'm in that that season of loving the life that I have designed. Welcome to Yes and Lam, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today and we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow.

All right, welcome everybody to the next episode of Yes and Lam. We are very excited today. We have total rock star here today. Cierra is joining us. She is the brand manager at Minky.

That's the correct title, right? Correct. The brand manager at Minky Couture, which if you don't know what it is, you've got to crawl out from underneath the rock because it is like the I'm gonna call it the blanket the blanket company that everybody should have. Everybody should have their blankets but you guys also do some more things besides just blankets. You've expanded to doing lots of stuff but we're very happy and excited to have her on today.

We're gonna dive into some interesting topics. In our pre-show, we talked a little about her theater background, which I have a little of. Gonna talk about that a little bit today. We'll also talk about a wonderful movie, Moana, one of my absolute favorites. Just rewatched it last night with my two little girls.

My goodness, it's so great. And then we're gonna also have some other conversations and we'll see kind of where those conversations take us about grief, about loss, and about the process of becoming, which is kind of what we're talking about overall today. So very excited to have you on, Ciara. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

So give us a little bit of an introduction of you. Like kind of give us kind of the lay of the land and then we'll dive in. We'll go back a little bit more but kind of give us the lay of the land right now. Okay. So yeah, so I'm originally from Southern California.

I went to school at BYU-Idaho intentionally. I know a lot of people are like, you came from California and you went to Idaho and like, I know, but my siblings went there and I had the best college experience. I did minor in theater, but I majored in communications. Kind of fell in love with just presenting but also relationships. And so I graduated from there, got married.

When you did graduate from there, it was actually officially called BYU-Idaho? It was officially BYU-Idaho. Yes. I wasn't there doing RICS. Because I'm old.

Okay. So you're in the RICS phase. And it was RICS back when I was like. You might not want to tell too many people that because you want to keep the appeal that you're younger than you are. What is the RICS thing?

What are you talking about? Yeah. I was just right after that actually, but I like to think that I'm pretty young. I'm not. So yeah.

So I got my degree there. I got married my last year in college and then we moved to Utah after we graduated and I worked for Franklin Covey. I interned with them, did some communication, worked with them, worked on their social media side and their... Lay the foundation for Franklin Covey because people should definitely know what it is. You should know.

A lot of people think of Franklin Covey and they think planners. Like, okay, so that's the planner company. No, it's actually a leadership development company. My dad is still a consultant for them. So Franklin Covey teaches leaders how to be the best and how to grow individually and as a team and as a company.

So they're a fantastic... Any leadership organization should do work through them. So you're welcome, Franklin Covey. We're going to cut that up into a reel and put that out there. You got that for free.

So yes. Free ad there. But I love it because Franklin Covey was so great because it really laid the foundation to kind of how to grow as an individual. And when you grow as an individual, you can be more effective in your team and in your company and in your position. So I handled the Western region side of that with events and things like that.

And then I started having kids. And so I took a step back, raised three beautiful boys. And yeah, so I was in the phase of just kind of embracing that my purpose was to just be a mom and just kind of raise my kids, which I absolutely adore. But then we got divorced in 2022. And so that kind of had...

I was forced to kind of come back into the corporate world, which was new and nerve wracking. And I was very, very nervous to see what was going to happen with that. But I found Minky Couture, Sandy Hendry offered me a job, which is its own story. And we're going to definitely dive into that in a minute. Yeah.

But then once I was reintroduced to the workforce, I didn't realize not only how much I loved it, but how good I was at it. Can I say that? A hundred percent. I just realized... Well, we talk about the season of becoming, which we'll get more further into, but I realized I genuinely love people.

And this job has provided such an outlet for me to create relationships, share my story, learn from other people. And it's been fantastic. So fast forward now where I'm four years with Minky in July, and I have had an amazing, amazing experiences. And my kids have benefited from it. And it's just been life changing in the best way.

What would you tell people about Minky? What's the story of Minky? Why is it such a great place for you to be where you really kind of come into your own there? So Minky Couture provides an opportunity for... So we're mainly women who work there, right?

So over 350 employees, predominantly women. And Sandy has created an atmosphere of personal growth where wherever she feels like your talents are, she'll put you in that position and she'll watch you grow and help you grow, which is fantastic. But more than that, the purpose of Minky is to give back. Her mission is to blanket the world in comfort. And the origin of Minky is unique in the sense that her daughter was just ill and she wanted to give her some comfort.

And that blanket was created to do that. And she was so overwhelmed by how comfortable it was that the next day when she visited her daughter in the hospital, it was in someone else's room because they wanted comfort and so on and so on. And so she created 50 out of the goodness of her heart and then realized, this is actually a business. This isn't just providing something for my daughter. This is actually...

I could really provide a need. And that is why I love Minky so much is its purpose is to genuinely give back. And I don't think anyone who's listening to this who knows Minky doesn't know that. Whether it's Sandy Hendry personally, or just the name Minky Couture, last year we donated $5.5 million worth of blankets just to people in need. So whether that was hospitals, communities, natural disasters, we're always, as soon as we hear about it, we're first on the scene to help.

And that's thanks to Sandy Hendry. So being able to be a part of that and being able to gift people blankets who have never had a Minky or going through a hard time or celebrating something exciting, it really does something to me personally where I just feel so empowered that way. And Sandy's provided that and it's amazing. I think one of the things that's great about a company and organization like yours is that when as a consumer, which I am, when I'm buying a blanket, I also know that that purpose exists there. Right?

Right. I don't remember if we've talked before or not, but Simon Sinek talks a lot about the why and he says that people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And so for this last Christmas, I mentioned this to you, actually, you were the one that connected me with and made it happen. But that's what we got our employees for their Christmas gift because of the story. And so in our Christmas party, we gave out the blankets, but also read the little write up that you guys have about why Sandy started it, what it's all about, because we connect with that.

And so when you purchase from an organization like yours, you feel kind of part of that goodness that's taking place, which is why it's really special. Well, another thing that a lot of people don't know too is every blanket purchased, we actually donate a mini to a NICU. So you know, I think a lot of people, they're actually paying it forward when they purchase from NICU, which again, sets us apart from everyone else. Yeah. So amazing.

So, okay, so let's let's take it like all the way back to Cierra in high school. Oh, okay. So you were in the drama club. I was, I was, I was torn between being a cheerleader and being a drama, a drama nerd. And I'm saying nerd, because I was a nerd.

Sure. And I chose drama. I loved it. I mean, I fully embraced being in the drama club when I was in high school. So what drew you to that?

What was it about performing about drama that you enjoyed? I honestly, I loved taking on the role of someone else. I loved being able to, I don't want to say put on a mask, but being able to kind of step into someone's shoes that wasn't me and, and portray it in a very fun way. I loved that. I love comedy, but I also love drama.

So I did both. I did some showcases with my brother when he was in high school. I was in middle school and he brought me on to his showcases in high school and we took first place. I mean, we took, we had, we took ribbons because he, he did theater and I, I admired him so much in that aspect. And so, but I loved just kind of, maybe it was an escape, but, but I was also really good at it.

I loved just embracing new identities and it's, it was fun. Yeah. For me, I loved the aspect of bonding with your cast mates. Oh, for sure. You know, when you're in a production together and you practice and you rehearse and you mess up and you have to work through things and then you're doing that together, you're putting on something special to connect with the audience together.

It's a really, really amazing bonding experience that you have with your cast mates. And then for me too, there is just nothing like getting a roaring laughter from an audience. We'll love it. It is just like, it's a shot of adrenaline. The best, the best when they all start laughing and then you do the same show multiple nights and you still are getting laughs.

They're like this, I am on point tonight. I mean, you probably fill your head up with a lot of things that aren't real, but the fact is, is yeah, I love bringing joy to people and I, I, yeah, that was always a great, great person. Were you in, especially in comedies, did you end up like ad living very much, especially when you described yourself? I was known for it. I mean, I remember I played a specific role where I was, I was a sophomore and I got the lead and the seniors hated me.

They were like, oh my gosh. And I was like, I don't know. And so I played the mean girl in school and, and I remember Vanessa Harrington was her name and she, everyone hated her in, in the play, right? And I always felt, I apologize after every take, like to the, to the, to the, the, my cast mates, it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't mean it that way, but I was so mean. And I remember I worked at Juiced It Up and this guy came in and he goes, wait a minute, you're the mean girl from that play.

You're the mean girl, right? And I was like, yeah, that was me. But how, you're having a great day and here's your smoothie. But I remember like people actually remembering me and I thought that was actually kind of cool. So there's, there's a lot of like cool things that happen too.

Yes. I had, I had some maturing to do in my abilities because the very first one I was in, it was in a one act play and I thought I played it okay. It was a comedy. But then afterwards, when some people got to know me, they're like, oh, you just played you. And I was like, well, it's true.

Like I, the character was me. Like, I'm sorry. That's true. I didn't have to do a whole lot of acting. I just was kind of like myself and it was fine.

I love that. But I had to evolve after that, right? You got to, you got to learn how to step into somebody else's shoes and see something different and kind of have fun with it. Yeah. But, so you then decide to be a communications major and a theater minor.

So tell me about the decision to be a communications major. So I actually was going to be a theater major when I first got there and I started taking communication classes as my minor. My first communication class, I called my dad and I was I'm switching my major. This is so, this is everything I love. This was public relations, marketing, and everything I'm kind of doing now, but I had no idea how much I was going to fall in love with it.

And I do think that Franklin Covey, just growing up with it, my dad, growing up, we were, our family home meetings consisted of the seven habits of highly effective people. And I was the only person in my elementary school with a day planner. But I do think that that kind of helped set me up for success to actually enjoy that major. And so I flocked pretty quick and I just fell in love with all of it. In fact, I co-founded the presentation center at BYU Idaho, which still exists today, where the students have to come and present their presentations.

And I will help critique and kind of help them set them up for success for when they go to their class to actually do the actual presentation. And so they, a lot of the teachers started making it mandatory for them to come through. And I loved it because I love presenting and I love, I always tell people, you've got to be excited. You got to really embrace what you're talking about and be passionate about it because your audience is only as excited as you are, you know, and that translates into my job today. Right.

And so, yeah, I just, there's so many aspects of it that I loved. Yeah. So you, as you mentioned, you, in your last year, you get married, you do a little bit of work at Franklin Covey, then you decide to kind of focus on the family. So if it's okay, I mean, I don't want to like put a damper on our conversation, but I want to take through people through like some hard things you've had experience in your life, because you did have to experience some like, I mean, honestly, things that somebody should never have to experience, like things that are so hard that it's, I can't even personally imagine how hard some of those things are. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so why I'd gotten married and we had our first son, Miles, and he was perfect. And like any other anxious LDS woman, I wanted to have six kids, you know, but then you have one and you, that count goes down to four. But, but Miles was great. And so then we got pregnant with our second and he was perfect as well.

And his name was Jack and everything was great, except the first night after he was born, full term and everything, the first day, I woke up in the morning and they were like, oh, you know, he didn't really eat his milk very well. We switched him to sensitive formula and I was like, oh, okay. And didn't think anything of it. Michael, he's just spitting up his milk. He's a newborn trying to learn how to eat, you know.

Anyway, we found out that his intestines weren't connected properly. And so they had to have surgery. So we're kind of just like emotionally going through that. They do emergency surgery the next morning. And he, so that was day two and they do it and it's great.

They're like, we do this all the time. The surgery is pretty routine. Again, best hospital west of the Mississippi. So I'm giving Kingham in good hands. Was it ever a good surgery?

Yeah. And then they had to do it again. And so they had to do it again. Primary Children's up in Salt Lake. And so we were prepared to stay there for four weeks.

That's what they told us. And we prepared for that. And the next day, so day three comes around and they said we're going to take him off oxygen. He's doing awesome. We're just going to see what happens.

Okay, great. And we get there and we go to lunch and my husband at the time, we both had like 17 missed calls from the hospital. And we sat there and pretended to eat. And then we looked down at our phones and we realized, oh my gosh, something's wrong. Well, his toes started to turn black.

And so during that surgery, he developed an infection. So they went back and the next several days were surgery after surgery, trying to figure out if they could find the hole that was poked or something. And they couldn't find it. So it got to the point that day six, his whole legs were turning black and it was only getting worse. And they just said it's gone septic and there's nothing we can do.

So I remember the physician telling me it's like a freight train going 200 miles an hour. We can't stop it. And at that moment, I realized this was real. Like I truly I was so naive. I was so hopeful.

I'm a glass half full person. I just I really did think that we were going to figure this out. And as soon as she had said that to me, that hit me pretty hard. And so I looked at my husband and I we both kind of we didn't even say anything. We just said, how long is it going to take to disconnect everything?

Because we wanted to say goodbye. We didn't want to send him to another surgery and attempt some miracle that we both knew wasn't going to happen. And so we disconnected everything and he passed away in my arms and he was perfect. And I remember actually I've never said this is weird, but I remember holding him and his whole like I said, his whole body was turning black. And but his hands that I was holding at the time was perfectly pink and perfect.

And I just remember kissing his hand and just telling him I'd be there soon with him. And then he was gone. So, yeah, it was. It was hard. It was 11 years in May, so you think I'd be over it at this point, but I I don't think I grieved it as much as I should have.

So I still have moments of that are really hard. But yeah, when I as I've listened to different people talk about very difficult things, especially like losing a child, which is that you don't ever get over it. No, it's always just a part of you. Yeah. And is that is that what you feel?

Is it kind of it's part of you? It's there's a hole in your heart. And it's never going to be filled. So so I remember right after we lost him, I was like, well, I'm getting pregnant again. I'm bringing him back.

I'm not I'm not going to go a day with this is ridiculous. And so I got pregnant again and I miscarried and then I got pregnant again and I miscarried. And I remember every time I got pregnant, my sister was like, why are you excited right now? Like, aren't you nervous? I was like, no, this I know that I'm not going to have anything wrong this time because the Lord's not that cruel.

And you convince yourself that, you know, but so anyway, I miscarried twice after Jack. And and then I got pregnant naturally with Cohen because I had to go on fertility to get pregnant. And so I got pregnant with Cohen naturally, and we named him Cohen, Jack. And the miracle of Cohen is that he looked exactly like Jack when he was born. It was a blessing and it was crazy.

And Cohen is still Cohen, but there was a lot of Jack in him, which was amazing. And but yeah, and then we had Maverick after that. And you think that all these other kids would fill that hole, right? Like, well, they're amazing. They're perfect, wonderful children, wonderful boys.

And but no, there's always a hole there for sure. How do you feel like that experience kind of changed you and played into who you are today? So I like to think I was a decent person before Jack. I mean, I look back and I'm like, I was I served people. I was kind.

I think I was pretty good. But, you know, hindsight is always 20, 20. And you look back and and I have and so much more empathetic. I love listening to other people's stories. I love learning from them.

I've learned that people actually enjoy hearing my my hardships because they either can relate to it or it makes them feel like they're less alone. And so I've been able to kind of connect with people on a more. Personal, empathetic level that I don't think I was capable of before. Maybe I was more surface before and I didn't realize it, but I've become more intentional with my relationships and and how I navigate life. And I do attribute a lot to who I am because of Jack, for sure.

In those situations, especially part of. Part of grieving is that you're also. You know, with someone else who was also grieving. What was what was that like for both of you and your husband at that time to be going through that grieving process? You know, it's I look back and I and I've said this before, but I truly don't think we grieved Jack the way we should have.

So we had miles at the time and miles slept in our bed for a year right between us and and intentionally because we were clinging on to whatever we had in front of us. We'd visit the cemetery. I think I was I went every day for two months and I finally said, this is probably not the best for my son to go to a cemetery every day. So we spaced it out a bit. And now we just go once a month.

But I I don't think we actually grieved him the way we should have. And it didn't pull us further away from each other by any means. We got a lot closer to the Lord as a unit. But we didn't really talk about him very much. We kind of just put the focus on miles.

And then if I was getting pregnant at the time, we wanted to bring Jack back and just get pregnant with some new baby. And so we didn't really grieve him. And so I think that's, you know, was a I think that was a small factor to why it didn't work out with us, why we got divorced later on. I think I convinced myself we needed to stay together for Jack. And then I realized that Jack was always going to be a part of us.

But because of that, I think we neglected our our relationship. And did you did you do you feel like at some point in time, you went through that grieving process like you needed to? I think I'm still going through it. So I think. Yeah, I think I'm still and I this sounds terrible, but I do feel like I haven't met the partner that or at least, you know, that I've needed to kind of help me be have a safe space to grieve.

I've done a lot of therapy and things like that. But there's something about talking to someone else about it that is a safe place that is different than therapy. You just feel like you can say things that you don't usually say or the empathy on that side or just being able to just breathe a certain way. And I don't know if I've had that experience yet. So I still I think I'm still kind of grieving.

Sure. Well, again, I mean, I think to some degree, you know, I think I also heard it put that when you experience a loss like this, that you're not going through the stages of grief that you traditionally hear about. Right. People hear about the stages of grief. And as I understand it, it was actually on Jay Shetty's show when he was talking to somebody.

They talked about like the stages of grief were actually designed for some at the end of their life. They go through these stages to accept that they're they're about ready to pass on. But that going through grief for the loss of a loved one and loss of a child is not like these definitive stages. Like it's it's this overall thing that you're kind of always experiencing and this hole in your heart that's always there and just learning to kind of live with it and accept where it's at and accept that pain that's there and also then finding joy in life. Right.

Which is part of why I just so I was thinking about visiting with you today. It's it's so so perfectly in line with with our with our show of the yes. And right. Yes, we can accept that we have this loss. Yes, we can accept that we'll never get over the loss of that child.

And we can also still build a really happy life. Yeah, we can still enjoy the other people in our lives. Your other kids for sure who you just adore. And you can just tell you light up when you talk about it. Right.

I'm obsessed with them. So so you you and your husband at the time, it ends up kind of not working out, which is also hard. Yeah. And, you know, I we are still great friends. It was just one of those sad stories, you know, one of those stories where we just kind of lost each other.

And when it came down to it, we just couldn't make it work. And as much as we wanted to stay together for the kids, it just wasn't. I know I wasn't as happy as I could have been. And he's a wonderful dad, a wonderful human being. I mean, I couldn't ask for a better co-parent, truly.

I think we're an anomaly the way how well we get along. I don't think everyone loves that. But but the kids good for the kids. So it's good. Yeah.

How how was that with your kids? They were I mean, had one child at a time. So super young. Two other kids afterwards. Yeah.

I still kind of talk about Jack. Yeah. So so yeah, I mean, we at the time, our kids were two, five and eight when we got divorced and they were pretty young. So I mean, I think the eight year old, I was two when my parents got divorced. And I don't remember them being together.

And it's probably a Mavericks experience. Miles does my oldest. And I don't know if Cohen does too much, but I think the biggest thing was watching having Miles watching the and I co-parent and how good that was. I I'm hoping that he looks back and it was a positive experience. I know he he sees us get along today.

So that's good. But I like to think that the transition was was as smooth as it could have been. So, yeah, I mean, it's the primary factor in how kids do from divorce households is how well the parents get along a co-parent. That is the primary factor in how well adjusted they will be. And so the fact that you all found a way to do that is huge for those kids.

And it's really hard. It's really hard sometimes for people to do that, because sometimes you have to swallow a bit of pride and, you know, not not have to point out all the things that somebody else does wrong. Right. And it's sometimes really hard because the other side is not perfect. Right.

But neither are we. Right. So I guess here's something I was thinking about when when you're kind of going through different losses, both either when when you lost Jack or when you got divorced, what was the most helpful thing that people would say? Because, you know, we whenever somebody goes through something hard, it's always hard to figure out like how to be there for somebody or what things to say. What was the most helpful thing somebody said or that in general people would say?

I honestly I think people were always like, you're doing a better job than you give yourself credit for. You know, I think a lot of people were so quick to to be hard on ourselves and not give give ourselves grace. But I do think that I was doing a better job than I was giving myself credit for. But I still have mom guilt. Any mom out there that's working who has children, whether they're married or divorced, has mom guilt.

It just it's a real thing. My kids are home by themselves right now. So, I mean, they my oldest is watching them. And, you know, I had to have a conversation with him about, you know, just the phase of life we're in. And it is what it is.

But I think that my kids are happy, you know, and I think that was the other thing they pointed out is that your kids are happy. They're doing great. You know, they they they want to go to mom and dad's house. Right. So it's not I want to stay here.

I want to stay there. They love they were looking forward to going to both households, which, again, like you said earlier, is it's it's unique. It's an anomaly to have both parents saying such positive things about each other, which is which is really great. So I do think I was, you know, doing probably a better job. And that encouragement is so helpful when you're going through the hard time, because I didn't think I was doing a great job.

But for someone else on the outside to point out, like, actually, you look like you're doing a great job. And that was very validating. On the on the other hand, what what were some of the most hurtful things people would say that even if they weren't now intended? Well, it's and you know, this is Utah for you, but I'll just call spade a spade. We're very quick to judge other people, very quick to create narratives that we have no idea are true or not.

I think I've I've I don't know if this is in your notes, but we'll just address the elephant in the room. I recently just got divorced again. So that that was I was married for a year and a half. But I've I'm in the same ward and been divorced twice in that same ward. And there's a lot of I lost friends, lost family for time, little bits of time.

Everything's good now. But but you going through that, I mean, you find out who's there for you is not there for you. And there was a lot of narratives that were created that weren't true. But I showed up every Sunday and I never, ever wavered from that. My testimony is too strong in the church.

And I I just know that I've got my kids looking at me and Jack is my compass. I refuse to negotiate or give up anything that would sacrifice me getting back to him. People don't know my whole story. They don't know what went on behind closed doors and both marriages. Right.

And so I've learned to just kind of develop a thick skin. I know what's true and I know I'm doing my best and I know, you know, where I'm going. And that's all that matters. I think from my experience, both being divorced, I got divorced, I think, 14 years ago now, 13 years ago, but also being a divorce attorney in Utah with our culture, which is, you know, very much so. It's maybe less now, but very much historically, it was a scarlet letter to be divorced.

100 percent. You know, it didn't matter the reason. It still was. And it was one of the hardest things for me getting divorced, which was that knowing what that was going to look like, both for me and in my social circles, for me and in the congregation that I was in, for people around me. And I probably waited a lot longer because of that.

Just knowing what that was going to look like, having seen it, it was tough. It was hard. And it's definitely a real thing that people judge and they shouldn't. And they do. Yeah.

And they do anyways. They do. But developing that thick skin is, like you said, it's really important because you have to just be able to move forward and be confident in yourself and who you are, knowing the truth and knowing what's really out there. But also knowing that we all make mistakes. Look, in my first marriage, was I the perfect husband?

No. No, I was not. I've learned from it, though. Like, I'm still learning every day on how to be better. But it's all just a process.

And the more grace that we can give each other when someone's going through a hard season, I think the better. I love what you said about people encouraging you that you are doing better than you thought and validating the efforts you were making. I think that's really, really important. That validation is really important when someone's going through a hard season. Yeah.

So, OK, so when we talk about this process of becoming, let's wrap in Moana. OK, here we go. So, I mean, everybody's seen Moana, right? But just in case somebody hasn't seen Moana, give us like the lay of the land. Give us the overall 30,000 foot view of the movie Moana.

Yeah, so so I mean, she's drawn to she knows she's destined to do more than what she's doing. So she she knows that she needs to lean into that. But she's got a lot of not a lot of support at all. And so she's realizing she's going to if she's going to do this, she's going to have to go out on her own. She does have her grandma as her support and initially to get her out there.

But which is always nice to have someone in your corner. Right. But but the reality is that she is on her own and she's she's embarking on journeys that she's not only not prepared to handle or but she doesn't know what is out there. So she's she's about to go out and and and conquer things that she didn't even know she was capable of or or any of that. So it's a lot of unknown.

It's a lot of pushing through and going through things that are not just hard, but scary. Yeah. And and then and then realizing that she was not only capable, but she was extremely successful in her mission to to go out into the ocean and do all these things and and and and definitely save the island. Right. So so everyone was happier after she did what she needed to do.

So you can face doubters and so many doubters. Her dad. Right. Yeah. What was interesting when I was watching it back, I don't get your take on this, is, I mean, obviously her dad was the biggest out of like, no one goes beyond the reef.

Right. Like, that's what he's saying. Like, what makes you the exception. Yeah. Yeah.

I thought it was interesting on how when she just got and kind of he got after her for wanting to go beyond the reef when there's no fish. And then her mom comes to her and kind of explains why he feels that way. And that was really interesting because, you know, it is really easy to judge and it's certainly easy to judge him like, bro, your island's dying. Yeah. There's no fish, the coconut, they're all rotten.

Like you got to do something else. But oh, wait, he had this really traumatic experience where he tried to go beyond the reef and his friend died. Like, oh, OK. Now, with a little curiosity, now we understand he's got some barriers to this because of this trauma that he's experienced in his past. Well, and that is where most judgment comes from.

Right. It's they're projecting. So I'm afraid to leave my marriage. So I'm going to judge you for leaving yours. And so, yeah, there's a lot of parallels, for sure.

That's really insightful. I hadn't even thought about it that way. Yeah, I like that. So then she she still obviously does. And but still not without her doubters.

Right. And even though this might be a little bit out of place of the story, that I think the arc of of what her experience was, it speaks to it. I want to give you a quote from the movie and get your take on it. So it's the point where they first try her and Maui first try to take down Tika. Right.

They don't know who Tika is initially. But and Maui's hook is on the fritz. Right. Yeah. Like one more strike and it's going to be gonzo.

And then Maui says to her, we're here because the ocean told you you're special and you believed it. And after a little more exchange, she says the ocean shows me. And he says it shows wrong. And what? I don't know why that one's emotional for me.

That was supposed to be later here. I don't know why that one is. But but it is. And then, you know, her grandma comes right. And her grandma helps her to remember like who she actually was.

What? Give me your kind of take on that. I'm going to throw it out there and let's see where you take that. Yeah, I think I am. I was I didn't have a support system.

My first marriage, my first divorce. I had a few people that were in my corner, but I lost so many people in my life. And maybe it was for a season and still a lot of them. It was permanent. They came in, they left.

I had a lot of leaders that didn't support me. It was it was it was really, really hard. And a lot of people basically saying, like, you will never get better than your ex-husband. Like, what are you thinking? Like, you will never find someone that's this way.

You'll never find anyone like that. But what I took from that, which I shouldn't have, but I did, was that they're basically saying, like, you're not good enough to find someone better than him. And again, he's an amazing person, amazing man. And I was very blessed to have children with him. But there was something that sparked inside of me, and it was just kind of this.

I am so much more capable than people know. And it was almost a challenge to myself that, like, I can do more than what I'm doing. And so when I sat down with Sandy Hendry, the owner of Minky Couture, and realized that I needed a job and kind of pitched myself to her in a very vulnerable moment, but but very, you know, real. In the sense that I needed a job. But I kind of rolled the dice on myself in that moment.

And I was like, look, you can do this. I committed to things. I had no idea what I was doing. But I just said, you know, I'm going to be able to try and do my best. And so I think that there was a lot of scary things that I had to just leap towards.

But I was so bound to determine to prove to myself that I was capable and I could accomplish the things that I needed to. And so, yeah, a lot of naysayers, a lot of people, you know, I think they're realizing now like, oh, OK, I get what she's saying. You know, I've come a long way in four years. Definitely accomplished a lot. And I think there's a lot of people that are realizing that maybe this was for the best, you know.

Yeah. So. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like rate and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you.

We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality. OK, so I want to I want to dial into this experience you had with Sandy. Yeah. Like what walk me through kind of what what your emotions are in that time, knowing what you need to do, and then walk me through some more because it was a neighbor, right?

Yeah. It was like a neighbor's daughter. Yes. So walk me through kind of like, how do you get yourself to do that? OK, so first of all, maybe my theater background helped in my guts or something, because I just in theater, you have to be with improvisation improvisation and stuff.

You kind of have to just roll with it and kind of make things up as you go. But I was friends with I'm friends with Jacqueline, her daughter, and she lives across the street from me and our birthdays the same day. And so she said, hey, like and I've told this story so many times, but honestly, it's such a it was it was such a pivotal point in my life. She said, my mom's going to take us to dinner. My take me to dinner.

I want you to come with me. And I'm thinking the owner of Minky. OK, like and so I'm like, all right, fine. So we go to the Foundry girl up in Sundance. And I just remember being like in awe when I first met her.

She's gorgeous. She's so bougie and put together. And I'm just like and to for reference, my birthday is June 6th. My husband had left the house June 1st. So I am still very much in this.

I'm probably running on adrenaline, but also fear and anxiety, because I'm thinking what I do. I didn't say I wanted to divorce and have this plan laid out for me, right? I didn't say I'm going to go here to work. I'm I'm going to have this financially, you know, available. And I'm no nothing was there.

So I'm getting ready for the night and we go up there. And I'm a little bit nervous. But I it's not really till I sit across the table from her that I realize, oh, I'm going to shoot my shot. I'm doing this. So I just start talking about my degree, my experience 10 years ago and and how I love her company.

I'm in awe of her, her philanthropic arm. And how I can market for her. And I just remember thinking I'm looking at the table and I'm sure Jacqueline was just mortified. We had a couple of other friends at the table. And I'm just thinking they're probably like, good gosh, this was supposed to be just like a fun dinner.

And here you are pitching yourself. And and she looks at me and she goes, you know, we actually need someone in Utah County. And I'm like, what are the odds? Like, seriously? And she goes, yeah, she's like, get a resume together and we'll get you interviewed with our COO.

And I was like, yeah, totally. I'll totally get my resume together. And so I like call my brother trying to figure out how to get this resume to look good. And anyway, so then I interviewed and July 5th was my in 2022 was my first day at Minky Couture and started out just very much in the marketing realm. But the marketing department didn't exist with Minky at that time.

Even four years ago, it was just Sandy and our our our COO. And so we now have a team of seven. And we are growing extremely rapidly. We're on the brink of exploding. We're hitting places and demographics we haven't hit before.

And it's been amazing and not not because of my doing. But I do feel like I've contributed, which makes me feel really cool, too, because, of course, I mean, holy cow. The fact that I was capable of moving the needle even a little bit with such an amazing company is insane. So so you you shoot your shot, shoot my you end up getting hired. I get hired.

But even then, like, where do you where do you dig down to to find the ability to be successful in that position? Because it wasn't something that you had done before. Yes, you worked at Franklin Covey, but very different than what you're doing at Minky. So because I think a lot of people have this fear of like, OK, yeah, let's say I shoot my shot and it says, yes, well, then how in the world do I figure out what to do to be successful? Yeah.

So where did you dig down to find that ability? So I think this is where Jack kind of plays a role in my life, because I realize, OK, yeah, I don't know much about my business. Acumen was here. I don't really know what's going on in the world. I'm coming from being a stay at home mom for 10 years.

You know how you ask a lot of stay at home. So like, oh, did you hear about this? Like, wait, what? Like, I didn't know that was a thing. I know what's going on right now.

So I'm thinking, what can I offer these people? I my first couple of events were I wanted to actively join the Chambers of Commerce. So I initially joined 14 chambers when I first came to Minky, because I was trying to figure out which one was going to work for me, which one wasn't for the company. But now you're putting me in a room full of people don't know any of these people. And I'm supposed to just start talking about Minky, a company I just joined.

So my why bring up Jack, because I thought, well, what's better to get to a better way to get to know someone than to get to know them on a personal level first. So relationships first and business second. And I kind of just adopted that mentality. And it was wonderful. I was able to be real with people.

How long you been with Minky? I just started. Oh, really? That's so cool. Where were you before raising children?

Like, you know, and just having those organic organic conversation. But it was so great because people leaned into it. Yeah. Really? I just joined this company.

I've only been here six months or oh, my gosh, I just my my brother just got divorced. Are you OK? How's it going? And so then all of a sudden, this business started to come after. And then then the trust started to build.

See, when you when you were have organic, genuine connections with people, the trust level goes up. And so when trust goes up, then it's like, OK, I really can. Do business with this person. This is actually going to be work out well for me. So I kind of just have adopted that.

And it's been amazing. And I will say I've done a lot of homework on my end and listened to a lot of podcasts. I've read books. I've I've dived so deep into Minky that I could probably just talk about it for days because I know so much more about the company now. So it was definitely a lot of work.

But I do feel like I leaned on my my skills to just kind of get to know people on a personal level. One, you know, I wrote down a quote, which I think fits so well with what you just said. And it's by Stephen M.R. Covey. Love him.

We talked about, right. And he says, the process of building trust is an interesting one. But it begins with yourself, with what I call self-trust and with your own credibility, your own trustworthiness. If you think about it, it's hard to establish trust with others if you can't trust yourself. So you had to find that ability in that way to trust yourself, trust yourself to shoot your shot with Sandy, trust yourself to go join 14 different chambers of commerce, trust yourself to put yourself out there when you didn't have the experience or the knowledge of the company.

And yet you did anyways. And then Mel Robbins, who we also both enjoy, she said, start before you're ready. Don't prepare. Begin. 100 percent.

What would you tell to maybe women, especially who are in the process of going through divorce, who just got divorced and are facing that financial insecurity? Like, how do I do that? Yeah. And, you know, it's hard because there are some situations that finances are just going to be not great and you just kind of have to go through that season. But I will say, like, you are more capable than, you know, I think most women, especially if you're a mom, Sandy intentionally hires moms because she says you have so many skills that a lot of men and women who don't have children don't have.

You know, there's the multitasking, the organizational skills, the being able to show up when you're not in the mood and you want to cry because you're so tired, but you're going to show up and put that smile on and not faking it, but just being in the moment. Right. And so, yeah, I'd say that there's you're definitely what Mel Robbins said. Show up even when you aren't prepared. I mean, just you got to just move forward because, you know, no one wants to fail.

And I failed several times in my career and in my life. But every time you fail, you learn how to get back up. And when you learn how to get back up, you get stronger and stronger and stronger. So now my skin is so tough. I'm like, and I say that in a way of like emotionally tough.

Like I have I have been beaten down, whether it was with work or whether it was in my personal life. And I have I have just kept just kept moving forward. And one thing Sandy actually has said about me, which is kind of cool, is she said, you take constructive criticism very well. She's like, you don't get your feelings. I mean, if you cry, you do it later.

But like but but I and I do because the reality is, is I want to grow and be better. So tell me what I'm doing wrong. Tell me what I can fix. And that's a hard thing to do. You know, a lot of people don't love that.

But I've just I love it because I get better and I can I can show up better for my kids, for my team, for Sandy and for myself, because you always that always makes you feel good when you do something that is is making an impact. Right. So sure. And so, you know, your your your story here, obviously, that's why we're talking about Moana has has some parallels, right, to what she was able to accomplish with somebody who didn't even know how to sail. Right.

Like her story is kind of wild, right. She's going to go out. She's going to go out in the sea. She's going to go try to save, save her island, save the ocean and has no idea how to sail a boat. And she does it.

She does it anyway. She gets out there. She just puts herself out there sailing. She puts herself out there going into the realm of monsters, right. With Tomah Toa.

And she's like, I'm just going to do this. Like, we got to get this hook back. I'm going to make it happen. And then kind of the culmination of the story when she realizes when she's got the heart of the ocean and she realizes that the car is actually the feet. Right.

And so one of the things I think is really special about that moment is she's obviously stepping in her home, her own and becoming who she really is. But she's also helping somebody else do the same. And so for you, have you had moments where as you're going through struggles and realizing how strong you really are, that you've inspired other people? Yeah, I mean, I mean, I hope I'm right. But I'm sure you are.

That's why I felt like I guarantee it. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's a level of understanding I've been able to provide for a lot of people and a lot of validation. I think that, you know, especially in Utah, losing a child. We do have a lot of children here in Utah.

So losing a child, I didn't realize how frequent that does happen with people. But then you you add two divorces on top of that. I'm definitely unique here in Utah. I know that there's other people out there that have gone through the same things, but there there is a lot that I I think I'm willing to talk about that a lot of people don't talk about. And so when I do talk about it, I think there's a lot of people that are.

They feel that they're not alone, and I do feel like I provided comfort for several people, which is which is great, because I think you look back, you know, why did I have to go through that? You know, why? Like, wouldn't it be great? And I think there's a might shift a little bit here. I told you I'm bad about tangents, but there's I love that I feel empowered.

I love that I'm making a difference in the community and with Minky and exposing my kids to cool experiences that they wouldn't have have unless I was working. But then there's there's a small part of me that's resentful that it would be nice to have a husband and it would be nice to be taken care of and have the option of working, but not the obligation of working. I don't know if I want to have that in her where she wanted that. She seems a little too I am woman hear me roar. But I and I relate to her on that on that level to a point.

But there's a lot of there's a lot of nights that I cry. There's a lot of I mean, even still, I mean, it's it's hard still, you know. And so I I I love that I'm strong, but I'm resentful sometimes with how strong I am. And I it would be nice to be weak sometimes and not have to be the head of the household all the time. You know, you know, I think like many things, we we can coexist with different emotions simultaneously.

Absolutely. And. You know, it's it's perfectly appropriate for you to feel that way, you know, like it just we. We have to feel those emotions. We shouldn't, you know, push them down.

We got to accept it like, OK, yeah, I can feel a little resentful about that. It'd be really nice if this is the case. Yeah. And I'm going to step into my power and I'm going to take care of these kids and make the best life of them possible. And I'm going to choose to co-parent with their dad the best way that I know how, because I want to create a great life for them.

And you know, it's it's I think the process of becoming is never over. Right. And I think that's part of it, right? Like you're going to have these different emotions pulling us in different ways. Like this thing would be nice or this thing would be nice.

And and maybe one day certain things will be different. And we simply accept where we're at and move forward. Right. Do you know the movie Meet the Robinsons? Yeah.

So the whole crux of that movie is based on a quote from Walt Disney, which is keep moving forward. I've actually heard you say it a couple of times today, which is why I kept coming back to my mind when you said that. And I think that's it. Right. We we can have these failures or these things that aren't necessarily failures, but like, well, that would be really nice if it was that way.

Right. And I'm going to keep moving forward. I think there's yeah, I mean, I think especially for my situation, there are things that that happened to me and then there's things that I chose. And they were both hard things that I've gone through, those specific ones. There's lots in between.

But but because of that, you kind of have to just learn to to live with the cards you were dealt with. Right. And make the best of it. And so I have this quote above my vanity and it says she designed a life. She loved.

And I look at that every morning and I am. I am in that season of becoming I'm in that that season of loving the life that I have designed. And, you know, there's people that will say that's for selfish reasons or whatever. But I am not joking when I say I have never been closer to my kids. The relationship I have with them right now.

I don't even know. I didn't even know it existed that we could be as close as we are. And I thought I was doing a good job before and I didn't even realize. So my kids, I look at them, I look at how happy they are and how close we are. And I've got to be doing something right.

So I think a lot of people could look at my life and and think all the good things are happening and it's all sunshine and rainbows. And that's true to an extent. But there are definitely hard times, but I've designed it that way. How do you how do you give yourself the space to have those moments where you do need to go home and cry? Well, I have my kids every other week.

So we've got a one week on one week off situation. But I I'm a strong believer in bedtimes, whether it's summertime or not. And there's people that disagree, but I believe in bedtimes. I've got there. My kids are six, nine and 12.

And I do that on purpose. And because that is the only time when I can close that door at night. I can finally, like, just let go of everything. I'm whether it's frustration or sadness or whatever. I'm feeling that day.

But I remember Miles walked in on me the other day when I was crying. And and I just I said, I'm having a moment. And you just have to let them know that this is hard, you know, and this is I'm going through this for the first time. And I just, you know, I'm OK. I just need needed a minute.

And and, you know, I think there's it's OK to let them in, you know, on certain aspects, like letting them know, like this, this is hard. This isn't an easy thing, you know. And so that watching him watch me do service or be emotional or whatever it is. I hope it benefits him in the future. I don't I don't always want to be that way.

But there are going to be moments that come up. And I think that, yes, I love to do it privately. But if he does see me in those moments or my others see me in those moments, I'm going to have to just be OK with that. Yeah. You know, I think one of the interesting things that we see when people get divorced, when it comes to custody stuff, if somebody makes the choice to try to create the best life possible, they tend to be a lot more present in the time they have with their kids than they might have otherwise.

I mean, we as adults can fall into where we just we get into our phones, our electronic devices. We got a lot of things going. We're never disconnected. And, you know, what I found for me with my boys is it's very much that way. The times that I have them, like I'm pretty locked in.

You know, is this really unique experience? It's not unique. I guess a lot of people do it. But this last week, I went on young men's camp. Oh, yeah.

And we were in Green River, Utah, and none of the young men there could bring electronic devices at all. They weren't allowed to even bring them. And even though us as leaders did, there was zero reception. I mean, none. Yeah.

But kind of nice. It was actually so nice because I just found myself just in every moment being present, in every moment, finding ways to either connect with my boys or the other young men that were there or even the other leaders that were there in a way that would have been so easy to just retreat for half an hour, an hour and just like look up ESPN and see what's happening in the World Cup, because I did want to know what was happening in the World Cup. But it allowed me to be so present. And I think, you know, as we make certain choices in our lives, being present with our kids is huge. Finding times to set down the phone for their benefit as well.

It always like is soul crushing and yet such a great reminder. My two little daughters are the best at it. And they're like, Dad, why are you on your phone? Or like taking you out on it, taking their hand and like waving it in front of my screen. I'm like, oh, this is yep.

This needs to go away because I've clearly made them think that in this moment, that device was more important than them and it's never more important. Right. And so, you know, I do think that divorced parents can really make the choice to use that as a catalyst to be super present. Yeah, I very intentional and very intentional about the time I have my kids, because I only have them half the time. So then what happens if I'm tuned out half of that time?

Then it's only 25 percent of the time I get my kids. Right. So I am very aware. And there are certain things that work things do come up. And it is what it is.

And I try to talk them through that. But I think communication is the biggest part. It's explaining to them like, OK, look, this was going to happen. I see 20 minutes in my office. But then we're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know, so it's communicating and not just that. Give me a second. Give me a hold on. Wait, just wait, because that that's communicating something very different to them. Right.

So, yeah, I'm very, very intentional. And yeah, you do savor those moments a lot, a lot more. So before we get to our fun segments, what what are what's anything about Moana or your story that we should have talked about when we didn't? I just I like the part when she's on the boat and she's repeating that mantra over and over again. I am Moana Montenegro.

I will drive. I will float, you know, drive this boat. I will do this. I will do that. And she's repeating it over and over and over again.

And I just think and and nothing's working. Right. She's trying to get the right direction and she just keeps veering. But she's repeating it over and over again. And I just love that part because I am doing that on a daily basis.

Yes, I look like I'm a theater minor. OK. Of course, I look like I know what I'm doing. I've got it all together. Right.

I'm acting. Right. No, but I I do put on this this perception that I have got everything under control. And and I and I'm but those who know me know that I'm as real as they come. And I will tell you what is really going on.

But I I do have to remind myself daily. I can do this. I can do this. Today's hard. This week's going to be hard.

It's going to be very overwhelming. I can do this. And so I just I just I was hard. No one knows what anyone's going through. No one knows what you've been through, but no one knows what you're going through.

And I just think being kind to everyone is so important. And I've learned to just always be kind, always be kind and just serve. And I think I when when I get lost in service and when I get lost in being kind to others, I'm able to that that mantra comes a lot easier for me. I'm like, OK, I can do this. I can I can do this.

This makes it easier because I'm helping other people. I can do it. I do think that's something that's gotten lost a little bit in the the push for, you know, finding yourself and being authentic and making sure you've got yourself righted and self-help, because all those things are good. And we also learn so much about ourselves when we serve other people. We also find ourselves so much better and can find so much happiness when we focus on others and serve other people as well.

And so I do think it's this interesting thing where we can't go so far astray to think it's only about ourselves. We have to look outward. And you have to, you know, one of the things to I'm glad you mentioned that the mantra that she says, because I do. It also strikes me on how it changed throughout the movie, because initially it's, you know, I am Moana. I'm going to deliver you, Maui, across the sea.

And you are going to restore the heart of Te Fiti after he leaves. And she has the experience with the grandma and she sings the song. Then it's I am Moana. I am going to board the boat. I am going to go across the sea and I am going to restore the heart of Te Fiti.

And she takes that power and says, OK, like in this moment, I've got to do this. I've got to take the take on this challenge, this opportunity. And when, you know, of course, then, you know, Maui ends up realizing the error of his way and coming back and helping. But I do think it's it. Mantras can be really important and healthy for us.

Yeah, for sure. And they and they do take on a different meaning. Yeah. Right. As you go on, it's like when you read the scriptures, like, well, I didn't read that before.

That means something different now. And I think they can take on a different meaning and you learn from it and you just keep going. Yeah. You know, one of the things that just to circle back to a little bit on kindness that you said that I just think ties in so wonderfully with the way that you described making relationships with people, which was about being genuine because kindness is so much more than niceness. Niceness can tend to lack that that genuine nature.

But the kindness has to have it. You know, if you're not genuine, it's not kind. And you can't find a deep love of kindness without being genuine, out wanting to know a bit more about somebody. Right. Caring about who they are and what they're experiencing, not judging.

Like we talked about earlier, right? Withholding that judgment and being curious instead of just judgmental, then genuine connection comes so much richer and so much more fully when we can actually do that, empathize and be deeply kind with those around us. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. OK, so you ready for some fun segments?

Let's do it. OK, this or that is our first segment. OK, so it's just whichever one you think out of these two. And if it's a controversial opinion, we'll have to call you out on it. OK, so I doubt anything I say will be incorrect.

So go ahead and ask me anything. Love it. OK. Ocean or mountains? Oh, ocean.

OK, yeah, it's a good one. I mean, I want to. Of course, that's the big of course has to be canoe or sailboat. Sailboat. Bring me the wind, baby.

Yeah. Have you ever ridden a sailboat? No, but I had we had a boat growing up. So not a sailboat, but we had a boat and I there's nothing better than being out on the water. I think it's so fun.

I love it. I think and the canoes are just too much work actually kind of hard. Well, yeah. Who wants it? Well, yeah, you do like the you done the canoes at Disneyland.

Oh, out to the island. Yeah. So you go around and the big thing and that's a freaking workout. I'm like, I'm already taking 10,000 steps today. Why have to work my arms to?

So no, it actually is. So on this young men's camp, we went down the Green River twice. OK, and it is a lot of work. You realize you're like, hey, like your last and your dryest steps. You're like, wow, that is like, this is where this Moana would be like, it's OK.

The man wants to do this. I'm OK with that. Like I am. I'll just look pretty and make the sandwiches. Island life or city life?

I don't know how long you have to be there for. However long you think. Well, if we're talking like Hawaii and someone's bringing me like, you know, pinot coladas and chips and salsa all day, then that one. But the city, you can't. I mean, you got New York, you got Broadway.

You got you love Broadway. I love Broadway. Oh, my goodness. What do you think? I'm obsessed.

Yes. Well, we're going to have to ask a question about that. Yeah. Yeah. In the rapid fire segment.

And I'll add one because I know I don't want to ask there. You know what I do love? I'll take a tangent. It's for a while. I love Oahu because I can get both.

Yeah. OK. So see, I've never been to Oahu. Honolulu is a little bit that way. Yes.

Honolulu is. Yes, I've been there. There's also like a lot of places in Oahu, too, that are really beautiful. Maybe not as beautiful as Maui or where the other islands I can't. Kawaii, Kawaii, lush, beautiful.

But that's why I do love Oahu. OK. Pua or Heihei. Oh, Heihei. I'm obsessed with him.

I'm kidding me. He's the best. He's so great. I love Heihei. Te Fiti or grandma?

Her grandma, specifically. Her grandma. I'm obsessed with her, too. I love her. And if she was in real life, I'd be friends with her.

Yeah. She like the crazy lady. Yes, the crazy spirited. I'll do what I want. Like the best.

Oh, I can relate to her. She totally just helps Moana just be freed from the shackles. Yeah. Grandma's amazing. Road trip or a flight in my first class?

Let's say no. You got to be economy. Economy. I mean, honestly, I love me a road trip. I love I love going to the gas station, getting all the fun snacks.

I love being DJ, listening to music. I'm going to say road trip. What's your what's your snack of choice on a road trip? Oh, I'm disgusting. So no one wants to ride with me.

I'll tell you that right now. Let's hear it. What is it? Beef jerky. Oh, yeah.

Peppered teriyaki. Teriyaki or pepper. I like both. I like peppered. Funyuns.

Oh, that's why you say that. I love Funyuns. Watch out for some Funyuns. The guy I'm dating right now doesn't know that. But maybe I'm not.

I don't know why I said that. That's weird. Why would I say that right now? I mean, he's going to know now. Cierra.

I love Funyuns and hot Cheetos. OK, hot Cheetos. So jerky, hot Cheetos or Funyuns and then diet Dr. Pepper and a take five. Diet Dr.

Pepper versus Dr. Pepper zero. Yes, I prefer the taste. I know. I mean, anomaly.

I mean, I'm a Dr. Pepper zero guy now. I know I'm a diet Dr. Pepper. Yeah, you're taking the hot Cheetos and like crumbling them up over mac and cheese.

I've eaten them with everything. So, yes, I have my favorite is to eat them with like a Bado's bean rice and cheese burrito and have hot Cheetos with it. Yeah, I'm kind of I'm gross. I mean, you probably don't think that about me initially. You're probably like, oh, she likes salad and I'm good.

No, all this sounds amazing, actually. Making me hungry. This is fantastic. OK, so my next question was going to be for islands in Hawaii. But you said you've never been to Oahu.

No, I've only been to Maui. I've been in I've been to Honolulu, but briefly. And then I went to the Big Island this last. OK, so let's say Maui or Big Island. Oh, Maui.

I mean, I love the big island, Bailey. Your wedding was beautiful, but Maui Maui Maui is I also say to the four seasons. And it was amazing. So that would that would be the case. Yeah.

Have you golfed on Maui? I haven't golfed on Maui. I wasn't golfing back then when I was doing it. But next time you go time, I don't know what the course was that I golfed on in Maui. But every hole you could see the ocean, everyone they positioned just perfectly.

So you could. Oh, my gosh. Amazing. Heaven. How amazing.

It's totally heaven. Early riser or night owl? Neither. Can I sleep? Can I just just sleep?

You want to sleep in and you want to go to bed early? OK, I was not expecting that one. I will say I would rather stay up than get up early. But my job, I mean, I'm like, you know, your your mental clock goes off early. Not anything I'm capable of sleeping in past eight 30.

So, I mean, yeah, I but before Cierra, she loved she loves her sleep. So I'm going to say neither, neither. That's it's a fair answer. Sparkling water or soda? Soda, 100 percent.

Because you said diet Dr. Crocker or diet Dr. Pepper. OK, now Coke Zero, I can get behind. 100 percent.

It depends on where the restaurant offers. I'm going to initially say diet Dr. Pepper, but if they don't, I'll do a Coke Zero. And they almost never will have diet Dr. Pepper.

Every once in a while, their Pepsi products, because Dr. Pepper is their own entity. So they go, you know, but but yeah, I typically Coke Zero will do the trick, though, for sure. Yeah, I love Coke Zero. OK, Netflix night in or girls night out?

Is my Netflix night in with my boyfriend or is it not? I think that's your call. If I'm with someone, I'll do Netflix night in for sure, because I've I tend to to lean into that. I love that cuddle. And maybe it's because I work for me, Kika Tor, you know, and I just love the blankets.

I work all day, but I will say I do love me some dancing and dinner with the girls. So good. Yeah, both. So it's kind of both. That's totally fair.

OK, you ready for the rapid fire? Let's do it. Favorite Disney movie. Oh, like right off the bat. I this is going to sound bad, but it's I have all boys.

Heavyweights, heavyweight, heavyweights is a Disney movie. And my kids is that you've never seen heavyweight. Oh, right. And this is a Disney podcast. Is this like a Disney channel exclusive?

Pull up the information on heavyweights. Yeah, it's about all these boys that go to a fad camp to lose weight. And they realize that like it's not about like just their diet. It's about like feeling good about themselves and they lean into the friendships. And when was when this come out?

Way long. Yeah, that's OK. I think I will be there. I just dated myself and everyone is holding a long time since I've seen it. Yeah.

My kids, we love heavyweights. OK, but it's hilarious. And Ben Stiller's in it. Yeah. OK, yeah.

Dawson knows what I'm talking about. Now it's ringing about. OK. Favorite Disney song. Oh, you know what?

I'd so random, but I am obsessed with it. Mulan. Yeah. Let's get down to business or whatever. That song is that's not random.

I am upset, but it's so not like it's Donny Osmond. I'm obsessed with it. And I feel so like I'll play it in the car with my kids. And they're like, why are we doing? I'm like, I love it.

Just let me have it. It'll get you pumped up. Love it. Like it gets me all jazzed and energized like, yeah, I'm going to go get down to business. I'm going to go accomplish some stuff.

I love it. Love it. Such a great song. See, I think I mean, Mulan did well, but I think it's a little underrated. It is underrated.

Pretty amazing. It is underrated. And it's not even like the storyline is like, oh, my gosh, it's amazing. Because I guess it is kind of like an I am woman hear me roar storyline. But more than anything, it's it's funny.

I mean, you've got, you know, Eddie Murphy, Eddie Murphy in anything. I'll take it. I mean, Shrek was, you know, that's not it's Dreamworks. That's not Disney. But yeah.

So anyway, yes, Donkey. Yeah, he was great. Is that favorite Disney princess? Belle. Belle.

Yeah, I actually have brown hair. And this is fake. I know everyone looked at me and thought I was a natural blonde. But I always related to Belle growing up. I just thought she was the most beautiful princess.

Do you love to read? No. No. OK, so you related to her in other ways. OK, I was like, it's a big reader.

A lot of times, a lot of times, she is internal, though. And I relate to that, like her taking care of her dad. Like she's maternal. She's smart. She's kind.

You know, she's so kind to everyone. But more than that, yeah, like she I love reading. Like I just talked to someone about this. I love self-help books. I love those.

I'm not a huge romance novel or like things like that. But I do love to read self-help books are reading, too. Yeah, totally. OK, favorite Disney hero or heroine? Oh, my gosh.

Can I say Moana? I mean, she's amazing. I think she's a total hero. There's a reason I thought of her when I came to this podcast, because I just think she was so capable and strong and courageous. And I I love that.

I love that. It's great. I mean, most princesses were, but yeah, I like the answer. OK, best Minky blanket. The cream hugs, milk chocolate hugs, cream, cream, milk chocolate.

So it's one of the cream hugs is our bestseller, but there's a reason it's our bestseller. Yeah, because our hugs, it has that like sewn in that stretch sewn in. So it actually feels like a hug. But it is this there's a buttery soft and just you quite literally melt into it. Find yours at your local Minky Couture.

And stores in Draper and Oram and Sugar House anyway. Well, we're just going to we're going to have to put a link in the episode. You will absolutely have to. It'll be there for ultimate dinner guest. Like Dead or Alive, Dead or Alive.

Oh, fudge. I know this is is what it is, but I'm going to have to say Steve Carell. I'm obsessed with him and the office. Yes, but every movie he's done, anything he's touched is gold. But definitely.

But can I say can I say Michael Scott? Can Michael Scott show up to dinner? Because that might be the best. That would be pretty hilarious. Steve Carell, I am so impressed with that man.

You know what's so funny? When you were talking earlier about your acting and like having to apologize to people afterwards because you're the mean like what I thought of when you said that was Steve Carell, because that's what he did in the office. Do you see bloopers afterwards? He would say these horrible things and then he just couldn't hold it together. You guys, I'm so sorry.

It's so awful. You do you think they're taking it personally at the time. You're like, I'm so sorry. Yeah, I love Steve Carell. I'm I love laughing and he is one that always gets me laughing.

Oh, yeah. If you if you went to dinner with him, you would not stop laughing. No. And it would be fantastic. See, I would love to have dinner with him and John Krasinski together.

Oh, together. The two of them are like magic together. What about Dwight Schrute? I mean, you got it. You got to get Reed Wilson in there because he's a little more cynical in real life.

I know. I've seen that. Yeah. Right. Yes.

I was like, I mean, I still would like to like hang out with him and talk with him. Yeah, you're right. It might be might be better dynamic. Yeah. Yeah.

Just positive guys. You just put so much good out there in the world. Yeah. OK. Favorite restaurant.

Favorite restaurant. OK, well, I'm going to be a little unique here. And this is no surprise for anyone who knows me, but I know it's not a restaurant, but Jack in the Box is my absolute favorite. Jack in the Box. Really?

I'm obsessed with Jack in the Box tacos. No kidding. Their egg rolls, junior Jumbo Jack, no onions and then a curly fry and Teriyaki bowl. But that's just like a normal order. So but yeah, I'm obsessed with Jack in the Box.

I have been since I was a kid. That has to do because you're from California because 100 percent. We didn't have that here for a long time. I know. And you're welcome that it's back because we're changing lives every day.

Yeah. So and I say we like I'm a part of it, but I probably hold stock at this point. But yeah, I always said if I ever left Minky, which I would never leave Minky, but if I ever did, it'd be to work like I could like put me in marketing at Jack in the Box, I would kill it. I would get anyone to try it and then they'd fall in love with it because it's fantastic. And anyone who doesn't like Jack in the Box, everyone needs to calm down.

So because it's that amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. OK. You might not have one here from what you said earlier, but we're going to go with it anyways.

Favorite book. Favorite book. Um. Screw tape letters. C.S.

Lewis. OK, fantastic. Love that. That's great. OK, now we're going to go to your still still rapid fire, but we're going to go back to your roots favorite role that you've ever played.

Vanessa Harrington, I said her name, I can't believe I remembered her name, but she was just my first lead and I loved it. And she was the mean girl and I'm not mean. And so so it was fun. Yeah. Favorite musical.

OK, and I know this is not ideal for being an LDS woman, but Chicago. I thought that was my very first Broadway play. I saw I was on actually on a church history tour in high school and they said you could go see any Broadway play. And at the time, Chicago was playing and the music. Anyone who knows the music of Chicago, you know, I am addicting.

It can be to listen to. It's fantastic. I mean, I didn't know at the time what they were really singing about, you know, obviously, till later. Even if I was in high school, I was like the Mormon table high school. And so, yeah, but that Chicago.

I've seen Wicked. I've seen everything. I've seen a couple since then. But Chicago's just. I'm pretty excited in a few weeks.

I'm going to go down to St. George, Utah. And at Tua Con, they've got Les Mis. Yes. And boy, Les Mis is pretty high.

Pretty high up. Yeah. I love Les Mis so much. Like any opportunity in that one. Yeah.

Yes. Music is absolutely killer. So let me some Les Mis. OK. Best advice to someone facing a new chapter and anxious about their next step.

Oh, best advice. Don't get lost in yourself and remember to serve, because I think a lot of people, I think it's very when you're embarking on a new journey, it's very easy to be selfish and justify your actions. And I can admit that I probably even did that at the beginning when I first launched going back into the workforce, where I was justifying my actions and, well, I'm doing this for my kids and I'm doing it for this. And maybe it was a little selfish because I was getting some glory or something. But realizing that the only true way to be happy is to make sure that you're looking outward and not just looking in.

Yeah. So serving is huge. Fantastic advice. I love it. So on that note, we always like to end every episode with three actionable takeaways.

OK. So what are your recommended three actionable takeaways for somebody who is designing and building a new life and the process of becoming? Well, the first would be to jump. Just jump. Do it.

Jump. Don't don't think too much about it and jump. The second would be to don't stop like going. Don't stop. I feel like we do something that we're scared of and we're so quick to retreat.

If it doesn't go a certain way, you have to keep going. That's the only way to realize how strong you are and to accomplish things that are going to make you proud of yourself. So just keep going. And the third would be to serve. I mean, I've said it the whole time, but I just think service is just huge.

And I think a lot of people think service has to be making a meal for someone, you know, or going out of your way to do these grand things. But serving can also be just being kind and taking the extra five minutes to have that conversation or, you know, remembering to wish someone a happy birthday or or something like that. I do think that just being outside of yourself and being aware of other people. Yeah, love it. Absolutely fantastic.

Thank you so much for the conversation today. Thank you for being vulnerable with us, sharing parts of your life that where you had some trials, but also where you've shown some amazing resilience and strength to build and create a very beautiful and wonderful life for yourself. So thank you so much. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

You bet. As you leave this conversation, remember that, yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.