So I help people make good financial decisions typically when the stakes are high and emotions are high and when communication matters. Many times communication breaking down is one of the things that really leads to a lot of other problems. When communication breaks down, then people start looking for the validation somewhere else. She knew what Dad expected. He had very high expectations.

He wasn't willing to have a conversation, wasn't willing to talk about it. What he says goes. What 16 year old likes that. He needs to connect with her in a way that's not my way or the highway. And by asking questions to open up that dialogue so that she feels like it's a safe place to communicate.

If I'm thinking while you're talking about the next thing that I'm going to say, am I really being present? I think people when you're having a conversation, they're not always going to remember the words that we're using, but they will remember how they felt. Welcome to Yes, An Land where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility, growth and imagination of tomorrow. All right, welcome to Yes, An Land.

We are very excited for our guest today and very excited for the topic today, which I think is very on point. For society today, for where life is at, for where people are at. And that that topic today is really about communication. And our guest today is Chalise, wonderful individual who I've known for a number of years. Very excited to have her on breaking down some things for us today, helping us understand how to be better communicators.

She and her profession has to be an expert communicator, frankly, as a certified financial planner, certified divorce financial analyst. I think you have some other acronyms there. I don't know the ball, but they're all really great and they're all very wonderful and require a high degree of ability to communicate effectively, I believe. So it's going to be fun to talk about that today. And we're going to do it through the lens of The Little Mermaid.

Yes. Which is going to be fun. Yeah. Which is going to be fun. So, Chalise, let's start out here.

What I always like to do is kind of give our audience a little bit of background just to kind of know a little bit more about you kind of sets the stage for kind of where you ended up in your career and then also sets the stage for the topic of communication. So give us this little breakdown of like, where did you come from? Who is Chalise? Wow, that's a loaded question. So, I mean, yeah, you mentioned it.

I'm a CFP. I'm working divorce. I'm a financial planner. So I help people make good financial decisions, typically when the stakes are high and emotions are high and when communication matters. So it helps.

I use it. I use communication daily. The better communicator we are, that we can convey what's important to clients. Usually it ends better. Yeah.

So let's take it even further back, though. That's career. Tell us tell us about like, where are you from originally? Once upon a time, I was born in Sandy, Utah. Sandy, Utah.

So not far from here, just a stone's throw from where we're at in South Jordan. Love it. I grew up in Draper. I went to Alta High School. I went to the University of Utah.

And you growing up, we just talked about this in the pre-show. You have two siblings, but not biological siblings. Nope. Technically, they are adopted. Tell me more about that.

What was that like? It was awesome. Yeah. My mom and dad, my mom couldn't have kids after me. And so they tried and tried and they did all the things.

Back then, IVF was not as successful as it is now. So it didn't work and they struggled. And so adoption just was the method we needed to complete our family. Yeah. It was great.

And your parents ended up adopting two? Two, yeah. My sister and my brother. And when your parents adopted your sister, how old were you? 11.

And then your brother? 15, I think. So you were a tween and then a teenager. Yeah. But you had it like a champ because you said it was wonderful.

I was a little older, 11 years between me and my sister. So it was fun. It was great. So you didn't experience, because sometimes what biological children will experience when there's this new person in the mix, especially when it comes through something like an adoption, there's a bit of jealousy or there's difficulty because a lot of attention is paid to that new child. But that was not a thing for you.

No, no. My parents were really good about not forcing me to babysit. I still got to play with my friends and I could babysit when I wanted. It was, no, it was lovely. My sister was born on my birthday party.

So my birthday is October 10th and hers was the 11th. So it was always fun growing up. Yeah, I love that. Old parties. Good.

So you then, I think you said you went to the University of Utah. What did you study? Economics. Economics. Okay.

Let's go. What year did you graduate? I don't know that into this. I don't remember. So I graduated in 99 from high school.

So five years later. Okay. Yeah. So 2004. Yeah.

Okay. So I went to the University of Utah as well. I was a finance major. Okay. I did take some economics classes though and they were fabulous.

But I started in 2000 but then went on a two-year mission and so I didn't finish up until 2006. So I finished up a couple years after you did. So we were there at the same time. We did fly across over there. We might have had a class together.

It is possible. It certainly is possible. I seriously considered doing economics because the classes, I think the professor I had was just so good. I was like, man, maybe I really like this stuff. But I knew I was going to go to law school.

I was like, well, the finance is a pretty easy path. And I took some real estate classes as part of the finance degree too. And I was like, that seems pretty easy. I'll just do that before law school. And so I kind of ran that direction, which worked out fine.

Yeah. It worked out fine. So you finish up your undergrad and then immediately into financial planning? Yeah. My, yep.

I was, I worked, there was a Morgan Stanley, a Discover Card shift when I was in college. It was a four hour, four days a week shift. It was perfect. So I started, that was the first time in business that I was, the light went off and was like, that was the first time I started asking my dad questions too. Cause my dad was the financial planner.

I had no idea before that what he did. And that was what started to spark like, dad, what do you do? So it kind of explained it. And so I worked at Morgan Stanley through college. When I graduated, I interned here and there with him.

And then when I graduated, I started working with his firm. Amazing. So if you were to put to words what it is that you love about financial planning, why you still continue to do it through your career, what would that be? What's your why for doing financial planning? I, well, number one, I love, I love Tetris.

I love numbers. I love putting things where they go. So I loved that growing up and that's financial planning. There's a method to it. There's strategy, but it's figuring out what pieces go where for a family.

So I love that component. I love math. I love numbers. I love that two plus two always equals four. It gives me the happiest, warm, fuzzy feeling.

I love it. And that's financial planning. When I can figure it out and make sense to me and hopefully make sense to a family and my clients, that's why I love it. I love being that person that they come to for questions and help them through challenges and all the new things, having babies, going to school, retirement. All that stuff is so rewarding.

And then, and then a few years ago, I found a divorce and that's taken on a whole other avenue that's challenging, but also, you know, when you're helping someone go through such a hard time across the bridge to where it's transitional into a whole new life, it's pretty rewarding. For sure. So on that topic, you know that I'm divorced, right? I got divorced a number of years ago and remarried and got a couple of kids and you're divorced as well, right? So, you know, I think it's an interesting question on this topic before we dive into the major components of this topic, of the acronym for talk.

When it comes to communication, what role did that play in your divorce? Either communication or the deterioration of the communication or did it? Was that not really a thing for you guys? I mean, I don't recall having struggles communicating in my marriage. We were pretty good communicating.

I mean, of course you fight, you know, and you've got to figure out how to have conflict resolution. No, I think we did it pretty well. How about you? Yeah, I mean, communication deteriorated over time where, you know, we weren't fully communicating to each other. We didn't fight a lot, but we weren't in an effective communication relationship to really like get to the deeper levels of communication to get aligned, to stay aligned, to make sure we were tracking in the right direction, to make sure that we could resolve things that came up.

And so the communication became very ineffective over time. I mean, if somebody's surface level is looking at it, probably like, oh, you guys communicate just fine. And it wasn't, right? It wasn't at all. And that's something that I see a lot in divorce, which is, I think, many times communication breaking down is one of the things that really leads to a lot of other problems.

When communication breaks down, then people start looking for the validation somewhere else. When communication breaks down, then suddenly they stop sharing with each other about finances. And now finances becomes a big problem and they won't talk about it. Or communication breaks down. So then they don't like being with the in-laws, right, or whatever.

And so they don't talk about it or they have ineffective communication when it comes to those things. And so a lot of times I see it circling back to, man, there was red flags that if they could have resolved it earlier on with the communication component, it might have avoided a lot of the other things that came later on and kind of trace it back to that communication. It's an art. It is. I mean, the art of communication for sure.

And the better you are at it, all aspects of life improve. Do you feel like you and your ex are pretty good communicators when it comes to co-parenting? Yeah, that's huge. What role has that played in making it easier for your son? Yeah.

I mean, oh, it's huge. I know some people can't even have their parents in the same room. They struggle with going to soccer games or we don't have any of that. So it's nice. There's no anxiety there.

Hopefully he feels that way. But sure. And yeah, that ability to co-parent effectively when it comes to those things has such a positive impact on the children. Yeah. Plus, plus kids are smart, right?

So they go to dad's house, they get away with something, go to mom's house, get away with something. No, we're talking about it. We're going to know. And it's hard because even when a couple is living together, kids play against each other, like 100% they do. Oh yeah, for sure.

I could only imagine that Ariel, if her mom had been around, she probably would have been playing her mom and her dad against each other a little bit. That probably would have been her thing. She definitely didn't have effective communications with King Triton, right? No. Like the communication there right at the gate was like struggle bus, right?

She knew what dad expected. He had very high expectations. He wasn't willing to have a conversation, wasn't willing to talk about it where she had her head. What he says goes. Yes.

Yeah. What 16 year old likes that? Yeah, nah, nobody, right? I mean, maybe there are some people pleasers, right? That might not play out well over the long run.

I think my 13 year old is probably a little that way. He's a little bit of a people pleaser. And so he wants to try to do what I ask or his mom asks or my wife or his stepdad because he's such a people pleaser. But it's something that I've talked with him about like over time, like we can't just be people pleasers all the time because then people take advantage of you and it can have really negative effects in the long run in your career. But for the most part, 16 year olds don't don't want to have a ruling with an iron fist from their parents.

No, no. Well, at least in my house, they don't. I agree with you at the people pleasing thing, though. I mean, I worry about I worry about drugs out there, how everything that just the fentanyl situation that's happening right now and you never know and and getting tricked into something or peer pressure, things like that. So we're always having those conversations of I need to be able to feel confident that when you're in an uncomfortable situation, you know how to get yourself out of it without succumbing to peer pressure.

So yeah, we do try to have those conversations too, because it's a scary world out there. Yeah. You got to be prepared to stand up for yourself and have that inner confidence to do that. Yeah, for sure. So when it comes to these kind of effective communication tools that we have, we've got kind of one of the topics today, which is Alison Woodbrooks, who is a Harvard professor, studied communication for the better part of 20 years, two decades, and is one of the foremost experts in communication.

She is like expert, right? And wrote a book called Talk, and that was what we're going to a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. So do you want to set the stage for us? Like, tell everybody what this acronym talk stands for. Yeah.

So well, and when I grew up, I want to take her class someday. That sounds like such a fun class. So talk, it's the structure starts with T, which is topics. So should we just go into it? Okay.

Yeah. T is for topics. So she sort of describes that, you know, when you're going on a date for the first time, you usually prepare for, you know, you're doing your outfit or your hair, and you're thinking about where you're going to go to dinner, but nobody really thinks about what they're going to talk about. And so just setting the stage in your mind for even 30 seconds about a couple things you can bring to that conversation prior to helps the conversation go better. And it reduces anxiety, makes everybody just a little more relaxed, which helps the date go better.

So topics, it's preparing and having things in your back pocket that you can discuss. A is the next one. So this is probably the most important part. It's asking questions, asking follow up questions and being interested and curious and engaged. And that is just the sparkler of the whole structure.

So asking better questions. We have L, which stands for levity. So, so far we've got topics asking. So far we've got an interrogation, right? Levity is so that we're lightening things up, right?

We want to, we want to bring warmth to it. We want to bring humor. Sometimes it's, you know, jabbing at yourself, not being so serious, just bringing a lightness so that you're engaging and making people feel comfortable. And then K is kindness. And, you know, that's, that's so, so that you can stay in the conversation.

Kindness takes work. It's, it's acknowledging before disagreeing. It's just bringing, bringing a level of warmth to the conversation. Is that how you took it? Yes, absolutely.

What would you say about kindness? I think, well, let's, let's actually, what I think about kindness, I think should go as well with one of the quotes that I had on that topic. Oh, what I wanted to say too is kindness. People will stay in conversations when they feel respected and that's kind of kindness. So when you're having hard conversations, which we do and work all the time, adding that kindness component allows people the safety to stay in with you.

Yeah, for sure. What are your quotes? So I was actually not the one I was thinking of. So, well, it is. So Vanessa Van Edwards.

I love her. She said, the power of our first impression lies not in what we say, but how we say it. So I think a lot of this kindness is it's a delivery mechanism. We could have something really great to contribute, but if we say it really harshly or we say it in a rude way or a condescending way or in disparaging way, it's just not going to be well received. And the idea of talk is like, how are we going to have good quality conversations?

How are we going to keep the conversation going? And when we can bring that kindness to it, when the way we say things does matter, it will help to keep it going if we want to keep the conversation going. And when we keep the conversation going, it makes for better relationships. That's kind of the idea. That's the way I took it right along.

I love it. So Allison Brooks, Allison Brook Woods. Is that it? Allison Woodbrooks. Yeah, she's the words.

She's using the verbal communication more. Vanessa Van Edwards is using cues and body language and tone. And so I agree with you. She's fascinating and everything she's bringing to the communication table is. I love it.

But yeah, it is how you're delivering it. And if your words in your body language don't match, the person you're talking to won't buy it. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And it's important to pay attention to both. OK, so let's do a little bit of a deeper dive into each one of these.

Does that work for you? Sure. OK, so I've got other quotes to read. I want to get your take on each one of these. OK, so the first one is about tea, right?

Topics. And it's what Allison said. She said, at every moment of every conversation, everyone involved is making little micro choices that help to steer topics. Every time you speak, you sort of have your hand on the steering wheel of the topic, topical flow, and you're choosing, should we stay on this current topic? Should we drift gently in another direction?

Let me get your take on that. Yeah, I mean, I think in any moment, when you're going back and forth with someone, you have an opportunity to dive deeper or jump ship to another topic. Sometimes staying on the first topic and diving deeper, though, that's when you get to the good stuff. And I do think she talks about that, you know, asking, staying on a topic, asking follow-up questions to sort of dive deeper, to get a little bit more magic out of something before jumping ship onto the next thing. Yeah, one of the things I like that she says here, a specific word is gently.

Should we drift gently in another direction? Because we've all been in those conversations where you're on a particular topic and someone's involved in it, and suddenly it is a complete 180, and they have something entirely different that's not connected in any way that's super abrupt, and they want to talk about it. And that can be really off-putting, right? Right. Well, you feel like you weren't heard in the first place and that what you were saying didn't matter.

That's true, too. And it's so hard when we're going back and forth. If I'm thinking while you're talking about the next thing that I'm going to say, am I really being present? That's always something we're working on. Yeah, and the answer is usually no.

No. And even if you think you are or you're trying to listen, if you have that abruptness, you're going to make the other person feel like you weren't listening at all. And I think that's the way it comes across. That's why I like this idea of it being gently. Let me ask you another kind of take on this thing of topics.

She talks about this a little bit as well, which is small talk, especially when you're meeting somebody for the first time. What's your take on small talk? I guess let's just start out there. What's your take on small talk? I think small talk is you have to have small talk in order to get to the deep stuff.

You've got to start there. So nobody really loves it. I don't think, but you have to start there that earns the good stuff. One of the points that she made in an interview that she did was you have to have it, but people stay on it too long. So you've got to have some small talk.

But she suggested even just a single question, right? Because when people always complain about, oh, you've got to ask about what the weather is and, oh, I hate this small talk. Ask what the weather is and then move to the next thing. Just don't stay on the small talk, right? Ask about it to kind of break the ice and then move.

I think one of the key things that you just have to learn in a conversation, learn over time is when's the appropriate time to make those advances topically and then getting deeper. Because you have to, you can't come up, meet somebody for the first time and say, like, what's the purpose of life for you? Like, what are we talking about? Yeah, who are you? I have no idea where you're from.

What are you even talking about? Right. You can't get there too fast either. So small talk, like small, but there's still like, there's in between topical conversations you've got to like go down the pathway of before you can get to a lot deeper conversation. So true.

And I don't hate small talk, to be honest. And maybe it's because I just know that it's an avenue to get somewhere else. Yeah, I know I've been trying to make it a little more interesting. That, you know, there you go. What have you done?

Well, I'm working. I'm working on it. I'm I'm a constant learner. Okay. So like everybody says it's so natural to just say, how's it going?

Or how's your day? Or, you know, the weather or something. So trying to change up those words so that the answer isn't the mundane answer we've all been doing. It's just ingrained. It's a habit.

We all do it. All of us. We have to break it. And by doing it, just just trying to be a little different. So, you know, what's exciting about your week?

What's what's a goal you're working on this this week? You know, just little different questions. It's still small talk. It's still not offensive. I'm not interrogating you.

I'm still asking the same question without it being the same words. Yeah. I had somebody ask me a question very early on in a conversation I was having with them that I really loved. And they asked, like, what's the most exciting thing you're working on right now? Yeah.

See, and I was like, OK, all right. Here's exciting things. Like, let's go. And it didn't it didn't take hardly any small talk before that question. I was willing to answer because of the way that it was phrased.

And it was interesting. Right. Like the positive way. It's an upbeat thing. Is like, hey, what's exciting that you're working on?

It's also taking this positive spin, which was really good. I was like, I need to steal that. I need to borrow that question. Yeah. It was a good one.

Vanessa van Edwards is actually really good at trying to change this narrative with some of these small talk pieces. And what what what wisdom does she have for us? Just things like that. Asking different asking things in a different way. Or saying, you know, don't say when someone asks you, how are you?

You'll say, fine, busy. How many times have we all said that? You know, say something real, say something like, you know, nine out of ten or. Yeah, something different. I like stuff like that.

Nine out of ten. Yeah. Right. Because like, oh, OK, because then it's almost it brings in with the other ones, which it's a little bit of levity, too. Yeah.

They're like, well, analytically, I am a nine out of ten. And let me tell you why. No, no. It's like, oh, nine out of ten. Right.

It's like fun and laughing. Or she'll say better on the inside than the outside. Or, you know, if she's, you know, not done up or something. Yeah. It's just making fun, making light of herself, not taking herself too seriously.

But those things are cute. They're nuanced. They're different. And I think people like like it. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so, because, you know, when we're bringing the first question, right, we can ask a different question other than the simple like how's the weather? How are you? But we know we're going to get that if somebody else is leading the conversation. And so if we do, yeah, being prepared with some, you know, some levity there, some nine out of tens or better on the inside than the outside. Yeah.

That's kind of a fun one. Yeah, they're cute. Yeah. Okay. So here's another quote for you.

Well, two. First off, there's a Little Mermaid quote on topic, on the topic of topic, I guess, as the case is here. Uh, she says, if only I could make him understand, speaking of her father, I just don't see things the way he does. I just don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things could be bad. And so what are we kind of what is she experiencing here when it comes to communication or the lack thereof both from topics and then leading into the next one, which is asking questions.

Um, I'm trying to think of how it topics. She's she's so curious and she just wants to be free to experience the world through her lens. And her dad is terrified for her. Right. So, um, I don't know about topics asking for sure.

He needs to ask her some questions. He needs to connect with her in a way that's not my way or the highway, you know, do it or else. And by asking questions to, to, to open up that dialogue so that she feels like it's a safe place to communicate, I think would be helpful for sure. And because this is a parent child relationship, more of the, uh, onerous falls on on dad for sure. If this wasn't, if this was more of a two adults, um, having a conversation or having this situation happen to me, it's a little bit of if, if Ariel is thinking about these things, like, Oh, I don't understand this.

I don't understand why he feels this way. I understand how he doesn't see these things. Okay. I can go into a conversation with him thinking about those topics in advance. Okay.

I need to understand how he feels this way. And then I also need to be able to express how I feel about these topics. And so going in prepared with topics can help lead that conversation in the right direction. And then it leads naturally into that, um, asking questions. Certainly her dad would need to ask questions, but she can as well, right?

She could help to steer in that direction if she was truly curious to, to get those answers from him, like understand why he's so afraid of the surface, why he's so afraid of humans. You know, I don't think at this point she really understands or has any idea why he would be obviously he's carrying something, right? He's carrying something. Why humans are dangerous. There's something there for him as to why they are.

And she could try to understand it better by going and prepare with topics, asking really good questions in that conversation. Right. Um, here's another quote. This is from Renee Brown. She says, I define connection as the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued, when they can give and receive without judgment.

And when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship. So to me, I mean, this isn't necessarily tied to topics, but what does that mean for you as far as this topic goes of communication when we're saying and acknowledging like connection is so important, right? We have got to have connection with other people. It's just like part of who we are. I think we're humans.

That's what we're here for is to make connections. Yeah. Others. And, and when we have effective conversations, when we can effectively communicate that it, it creates this, right? She's saying it exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued.

And so I think this framework, what it really can do is help us to help other people feel that way when they have a conversation with us. If they can agree. I think, I think people, when you're having a conversation, they're not always going to remember the words that we're using, but they will remember how they felt. That's what we're leaving with them. Yeah.

So I agree. And I think it leads perfectly into the asking questions, right? And when it comes to asking questions, what does it mean to you to like ask better questions? Because we can ask a variety of questions. It doesn't mean they're like good questions.

I don't, I think you just start and then you follow up and then you keep going. And you're, if you're, if you're going into it, genuinely curious and wanting to know, that's when the magic happens. How do you do that when you're not necessarily genuinely curious? Well, you have to be, you have to, or don't do it. I mean, you have to be authentic.

I mean, it has to come from a place of authenticity. Otherwise, yes, you are going to look like a fraud. Yeah. But don't you think as humans, all of us have a curiosity component? Yes.

And if we felt comfortable enough to slow down and really follow up with questions, we would, I think. Yeah. And I think this is part goes back to the preparation going into it. If we know that like, okay, I, I'm interested in understanding better this person's perspective, where they're coming from. Now we've reframed it for our brains.

So we go into conversation and we ask the follow up questions. We frame that way. I'm going in knowing I need to ask more questions because, okay, I actually do want to understand because there's this, this dichotomy that exists within us, right? We all have like the egocentric part of ourselves that just want to talk about ourselves and be about ourselves and self-focus all the time. Right.

And we have to fight against that a little bit to do this effectively. And so the framing at the beginning can help us do that more effectively when we're entering in. So we can be genuine. Sometimes it's hard. When you were talking, I was just hearing Kristen Wiig and Saturday Night Live going, oh, you did that.

I did it too. I did it first. Oh, you, you have that. I have one, you know, the classic one-upper. Yeah.

The sketches she did on that were so hilarious. I love her. And the thing is they're extreme examples, but we also all know people who love to be the one-upper. No matter what comes up, it's like they've got to talk about themselves. And that's where I think there's also a pretty, pretty bright line, this distinction between those asking genuine questions because they want to know they're curious and those that are asking a question just so they can bring it back to themselves.

That's true. Sometimes people ask questions, but it's really just so they can talk about what they want to talk about. And they're steering the conversation. And then they can share their story that they're really excited to share because again, we all have a little bit of that like egocentric nature to us. And there's a tendency to do that.

And we've all seen it, right? Somebody asked a question because, hey, you know what? Do you like concerts? Right. And you're like, oh yeah, I like concerts.

Oh yeah, this concert I just went to. Yeah. They want to tell about the concert they went to instead of like, oh, you love concerts. Oh, why do you, why do you love concerts? Oh, okay.

Like, have you gone to them your whole life? Like, what does that, what does that mean? Tell me more about that. Yeah. What kind of concerts do you go to?

What's your favorite kind of music? And so that, that idea of steering just to go back to yourself or genuinely, sincerely want to know what the other person says, I think it's a pretty key distinction there. When it comes to asking questions. Okay. So here's, here's another quote from Allison.

She says, you can ask follow-up questions, the superhero of questions. You can repeat and affirm what you've heard your partner say. You can use backchannel utterances like, yeah, and fascinating. To cheer on your partner as they tell a story. What's the importance of that?

If somebody else is telling a story to like, stay engaged. Um, well, it tells them that you're listening. First of all, um, I'm thinking back to it. She was just on a podcast with Mel Robbins and they were talking about this and Mel Robbins was giving an example when she was, uh, communicating with her husband. Her husband was telling her something and she was, had her back turned to him and he said, are you listening to me?

And she repeated back what he had said, but in a, in a snarky way. Right. And he said, I'm not, I'm not asking you if you are listening to me, I'm asking you for your hearing me. Like, are you here with me talking? You know, that was the, that was the point is that no, she wasn't cause her back was turned.

He didn't feel like she was engaged in the conversation. She was showing that she didn't care. So showing your partner that you're listening by reaffirming what they're saying or, or adding in chiming in, I think it just tells your person that you're there with them and you care. Yeah. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor?

If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like rate and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you. We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality. Again, it goes back to that. We all need to feel seen, heard and valued.

Yeah. How do you want that other person to feel when talking to you? And if we want to feel closer, if we want to feel like we've got a good, solid relationship, we both have to feel that way. And these things are really key to bringing that out. My son does that all the time.

Uh-huh. Right? Yeah, totally. Like you can just see the glaze go over. Yeah, sure.

Yup. I'm one that I have a one track mind. I don't multitask well. And so like in Mel Robbins' example, if my back was turned and my wife's saying something, oh, I'm not hearing anything. Like I always tell her like, honey, I apologize.

I get, you gotta have my eye contact. So like, let me know that you need to like talk and like, you got my eye contact and I'm listening. Because if I'm not, if I'm like kind of watching the TV or doing something else, it's like, I got nothing. I got nothing. And then she's not going to feel, you know, heard or seen, of course, because I'm not hearing her or seeing her in those moments.

Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, I think that's when the magic happens for couples, especially where you can really show up for your partner. How does it, how does this, how do you see this play out in your, your professional practice when you're sitting down and visiting with someone who's stressed about retirement and are they going to be able to get themselves in the place they need to be, or they're going through a divorce and they're stressed about, you know, how this divorce is shaking up their financial future. How do you see this showing up? And what's the importance of that for you to be able to be there for your clients?

Oh, I think acknowledging is step one. You know, it's okay that you're feeling this way. It makes sense that you're feeling this way. And we're going to take the time to walk through it. Here's step one, right?

You just have to meet them where they are. Everybody's different. Everybody processes different, especially in divorce. Yeah, you just have to acknowledge where they are, tell them it's okay. I got you.

I'm here. We'll get through it together. You're not alone. Yeah. And that makes a huge difference.

If, if you ask good follow-up questions or able to really explain the things that are there and then they have those reassurances, it makes a huge difference. I found in doing divorces that some attorneys just don't ask the questions they need to ask. Because the clients, the clients, especially initial consultation, the clients don't know everything they're supposed to tell you. They might want to barf up a lot of information. They don't necessarily know the things that are like important or what's pertinent to how their case could play out.

And so asking really great questions and then following up with those questions to a client, especially when they're new, can help in understanding their motivations, their goals, understanding if there are certain things in their case that you need to be aware of, because there are certain problems in their case. And if you don't ask those questions and bother to ask and just assume that you know, now suddenly you can't give as good a representation because you haven't asked really great follow-up questions. So I think those are totally key. Okay. So the answer can be no.

But in our podcast prep meeting, we talked a little bit about maybe doing a role play where you were going to like, show us, model this for us and ask questions. Okay. So what's the setting set the setting for us? Who am I and who are you? And you're going to ask me a bunch of questions.

Well, why don't you be you? And I'll be me and I'll ask you some questions. You've never met me before or know each other. We're just friends. Okay.

Okay. I'm here for I'm ready. Okay. Okay. Ryan, what did you have for breakfast today?

I had a protein shake and a rock star, which I had most mornings. Wow. Rock star. Really? So, okay.

What's in your protein shake? It's just protein powder and skim milk. That's it. That is literally flavor of protein powder. Definitely chocolate.

Chocolate and skim milk. Is that to you your favorite breakfast? No, it's just fast and easy. So it's usually what I do. Usually have premiere protein, but today it was the powder.

Okay. So when you're going to have your favorite breakfast, what does that look like? That would be chunky cinnamon French toast from Neater's with the caramel syrup and the whipped cream and then strawberries on top. Is that something you eat weekly or monthly? Special occasions.

Special occasions because you're healthy, because you're trying to be healthy or? And I also have a bit of a gluten intolerance and so I have to like take a gluten pill and I'm not going to feel great afterwards. If I take the pill, I'll be okay, but like I'll make the sacrifice every once in a while. Okay. When did you find that you were had a gluten sensitivity?

This was, it was about four years ago. How did you find out? You just got sick or? My brother actually started to develop it about two years prior and so I kind of seen him, see him kind of go through that process of like it wasn't bad at first and then he went to just wheat, bread and wheat type products, whole wheat type products and then he had to completely exclude it. So then when I was feeling like consistently sick after I would eat, I started getting an idea of like, I wonder, I wonder if that's what I have.

Like the light bulb went off. Yeah. And so then I would take it away and be like, uh, that's great. Yeah. You connected that dot.

So that was amazing because you kept the conversation going. It was gentle, right? And it wasn't, it wasn't interrogating you. No, you were curious. I felt like I could talk.

I felt like you were very, very much listening to the things that I was saying and that's why the conversation can keep going because you continue to ask questions that were on topic and taking it down the path. And I could have taken it a few different ways too. And so there's just, yeah, it's just fun flow. It is. No, it is.

I like it. That's great. So that, I mean, I think that models really well. Like you can still steer it to some degree, like where the conversation's going, uh, because you could have, yeah, when we're talking about food, you could have taken it somewhere else with food. We could have talked about more about the special occasions that I eat those, but you took it down like, oh, why every once in a while, which was really interesting.

And you got curious as to why I wouldn't have it that often. Was it health or was it something else? Yeah. So it was really good. And I, and you shared the gluten with, I mean, you, it's a little deeper.

Yeah. We got a little deeper. It was a little deeper. See that I didn't realize that it was. Small talk to deep talk.

It is. See that was, that was modeled very well. I like it. I like it. I learned that from Alison and her and her in her book because she does it in her class.

She talks about it. That's called endless follow-up questions or something like that, where they practice it in their, in their class. They can just keep going, keep going. You can, it's endless. You can keep going with it.

Yeah. I mean, it works really great. And I could have been like, I like protein powder and that would have ended that pretty quick, right? Boring. Boring.

Yeah. No one wants that. Right. Oh, come on. Let's get to the good stuff.

Let's get to the good stuff. Let's go where it needs to go. I love it. Okay. So we talked about that.

Here's, here's another quote. I'm going to take on this is from Tony Robbins. Quality questions create a quality life. Successful people ask better questions and as a result, they get better answers. How have you seen that play out in your life?

I mean, I agree. I think questions create connection. We just established that. And so in my business or even in life, the better questions I can ask my son, my partner, my clients, the better answers I get and the more I can connect with them. She talks about this a little bit with, with your kids, like, like my son plays basketball and he's going to practice all the time.

And as he's running out the door, you know, I could be like, did you remember your basketball and your snacks and she get your water? And you know, you're barking at them, right? Or you can stop for a second and say, you know, what do you need? Can I help you with something? How what's going well?

You know, things like that. Asking better questions leads to a better relationship, leads to a better connection. I think you mentioned earlier on something that resonated with me, which is that sometimes with your kids, there's like, uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh.

No. Where it's this these very short answers, right? So you're asking questions and you're getting just like, not a lot back. How have you found that you break through that with your son when you're kind of getting these like short answers, not engaging, like, how do you break through? Humor.

I mean, we call it, we call it, we label it. Like I can see that we've hit a point where you're just, you're playing me, right? So we just, I call him on it and we laugh about it. And then we start over with asking questions. Like, tell me more about what's going on.

How can I help you? Good. I like that. It's it goes in the next one, bringing levity. You can bring a little bit of levity.

It does make a difference. Whereas, you know, if a child's not giving any answers and then they get scolded for it, you know, oh, you're only giving me one word answers like, oh, it's disrespectful. It's not going to likely get as far or as well or as effectively build a relationship. Whereas if you can bring a little levity, name it, call it, poke fun at it. I can see how that would be really effective.

Yeah. I'm lucky too, because a little smirk goes a long way with him. So now we'll just laugh, you know, we'll just laugh and you start over. You reload. You reload.

Yeah. Like, do you name it that too? Like, okay, let's just reload. Let's reload. I know.

Start like, this is not working. I need a little more from you, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Try that. Because there's, I mean. Just label it and then move on. Yeah, way too often. Like, especially if I'm picking my boys up after school and they're in the car and I'm starting like, you don't want to kind of find out about their day, how things went.

You start with a little small talk with them, right? Like, oh, how was school today? Right. Small talk. And then, yeah, so many times it's just like nothing.

I'm getting absolutely nothing. Change your question. I mean, change the questions. I need to bring a little. About English today.

What are you? What's exciting going on in band now? I do like a question my wife often asks the kids, which is what's the best part of your day? That's a good one. And usually they'll give some.

Now, sometimes they won't because kids are kids and sometimes they're just going to do their thing. But many times it's like, oh, okay, what was the best part? Like, what's this? Recess. Yeah, yeah.

Recess. Gym. Totally. That's what it would have meant for me. Rarely is for my daughters.

It's always usually something else. It's not usually recess, which is interesting. That is interesting. As a boy, oh, yeah, it was always going to be recess. Yeah.

Knox's answer was always recess. Friends. Yeah. Food. Food.

We do get that one. We do get that one a lot, especially from our kindergartener, because what the food menu was at school is a big deal for her. And so if it was something good, she is very excited to tell you how good it was, which is really cute. That is so cute. Yeah.

And kindergarten is such a fun age where they are so curious and excited about everything. Yeah. And I think too with kids, it sometimes is a little bit hard to be genuinely curious when they're telling you about just on and about the ridiculous things that happened to them that day that are to them mean the world and are like the most insignificant things. But when I've been able to reframe and say like, this is actually pretty important to them, then I actually can have more of that genuine curiosity. Whereas if I was like, oh my goodness, this is so late.

What are they continuing to tell me about this for? Then my questions are terrible and I don't create the connection. Right. So we all have that reset we have to have at times. Right.

Yeah. And again, kindness allows you to stay in these hard conversations. If you feel respected and safe, you'll stay in. But if you don't, you'll check out. Yeah.

And that's definitely what we saw from Ariel and King Triton, right? That their conversations were not at a place where either one of them was heard or seen. Right. Well, they hit a wall, right? And so then she rebels and she goes off and to an extreme.

Yeah. And then goes to Ursula. Oh, our villain. Our villain. She's a great villain too, by the way.

Oh, master manipulator. Totally. Talk about, yeah, using communication to her agenda. Yeah. Yeah, she's.

Avoiding fine print. Yeah, very manipulative. Yeah. And just all for selfish purposes. Yeah, for sure.

Because like part of me when I hear it, I'm like, okay, she's having him sign a contract and she's holding to this contract. So part of me is like, in the legal perspective, like the contract law, she agreed to it. I mean, it's a minor, so she couldn't technically agree. Right. That's the technicality there.

But let's assume she wasn't a minor, like, yeah, it's a contract, right? Like, hey, you don't want to you don't want this deal. Don't make the deal. It's not a very fair deal, but pretty stupid. But it is interesting that what she has taken away is her voice.

She's also interesting. It is interesting. And yet this has to then, I guess, as Ursula says, right, like there's always body language, which I think is self is an extreme example. But I think it highlights what you mentioned earlier, which is body language actually is really important. And think about it when.

Okay, so. Ariel uses body language. She can't she can't talk anymore. And she's seeing this world for the first time. It's it's all new.

She's got wide eyes. She's happy. She's excited. She's feeling all the things she's so inviting. And then when Ursula comes back into the human form, it's her body language is just yikes.

Right. You feel it so quickly. And I think that's what Vanessa Van Edwards talks about all the time, that you can make a first impression before any words are spoken. And your mind is made up whether or not you can trust that person from body language cues alone. How you're coming, how you're showing up to the world.

Is it warm? Is it confident? Is it trustworthy? Because the other person is trying to decide that. Yeah.

Before any words are spoken. Yeah. We're all judging each other all the time. For good or for bad, we're all doing it. Yeah.

And body language is first and more important. And it will supersede the words. So. And then for good or for bad. Yeah.

Okay. So the next letter is L, which we've touched on, obviously. Here's the quote on this one from Allison. Levity is not trying to turn anyone into a comedian or a clown, which I love that she said that because like I'm not a comedian. I guess like sometimes wouldn't mind being a clown, but it's literally trying to find these opportunities, these fleeting moments that can add some sparkle and fizz to our conversation so we don't get bored.

Yeah. What does say that? It's the antidote to boredom. Absolutely. Sparkle and fizz.

I mean, sign me up, right? Yeah. To me, that's exactly what you're bringing to conversations with your son when you're like, whoa, this is not working. Let's do this again. And like you're bringing that levity and you don't have to be a comedian, right?

Like it's okay for not all Steve Carell or Nate Bargatze. Like I'm not quick on my feet like that. I'm not going to have these hilarious jokes. That's just not me. Like my brother-in-law, that dude is hilarious.

I guess no matter what the situation, he's always going to have this quick witted thing to say and he just cracks us all up. What a gift. That's not me. It's just not. But with small little things, you can bring that sparkle and fizz.

You can bring that levity that just can make it a little bit more interesting, a little bit more fun. And my suggestion to people would be if you're not the comedian, which I'm not, have some phrases like we've already talked about some. Just have some of those things on hand. I guess bust them out. Yeah.

I may have told you this in our pre-meeting, but I met this principal at a school and he's on a board of directors with me. And the other day when I went up to say hi to him at this race that we were at, I asked him how he was doing. Hey, how are you, man? He was like, best day of my life. And I was like, whoa.

Tell me more. All right. I'm in. Let's go. He's like, that's what I always tell my kids.

He's like when my kids get at school, because he's a principal, and they come up and talk to me and they ask how I am. That's what I always say. Best day of my life. Because it's something that's different. And it's fun.

He's got a big smile on his face. I'm like, that's just it. You don't have to be a comedian, right? You just like have something like that. You just bring a little bit more like oomph to a little more sparkle to.

Absolutely. You can make things just a little bit more fun. You can smile with your eyes. You can just totally show the people that you're there. You're open for business.

Let's talk about it. I'm here. And I think the spark oomph is, to me as well when I think about it in that way, can go a long way in what sometimes are really difficult conversations or hard conversations. Because you don't want to be necessarily a comedian in those moments, right? You don't want to bring light-mindedness to a serious topic sometimes, right?

But there's nothing wrong with bringing a little bit of sparkle and fizz to it, right? Even if it's serious, it doesn't have to be like so somber the whole time. And it's an art because you got to be careful. Oh, for sure. Be careful.

I still think though that a little bit of sparkle and fizz goes a long way in those serious conversations. That's that's my thought. What do you think? Yeah, I agree. You have to play to your audience and there's a time and a place for things for sure.

It depends. You have to feel through it, right? Not everybody is going to be. Not everybody is going to want to laugh with you when you're when you're going through and talking about, you know, divorce or death or something like that. But but asking questions and trying to, you know, maybe it's not necessarily being funny or bringing humor, but that's where you can use other phrases that are maybe, you know, more authentic or warm, making light of yourself somehow, you know, things like that, you can have in your back pocket to to make the other person hopefully feel safe to communicate.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Then and I think it does play in really nicely as well to the next one, which is K kindness, because, you know, you've got to you got to find the right moments for the levity, right? Got to be aware of what it is. I mean, the kindness, you can always bring the kindness, like serious conversations, fun conversations, everything in between.

You can always bring a degree of kindness, right? Here's what I wrote down from from Allison on this one. In a way, topics, asking and levity are all working their way up to the most important maximum of the talk framework, which is kindness. Ultimately, the question is in service of what are you becoming a better conversationalist pursue your own goals and needs? Or are you thinking about other people's goals and needs?

And give me your take on that. Well, it's kind of like the one up thing we were talking about earlier, right? Are you are you holding space for your person to communicate clearly? Are you are you there to show that it's a safe place for that person? Or are you out for your own agenda?

Is it a platform for you to just take over? I think listening is where it is sort of underneath the kindness umbrella, too. And how are you an active listener? How are you really hearing what that person is saying? And are you making eye contact?

And are you showing the person that you're there? And I mean, that's how that's how I would take that. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it goes back to kind of what our motivations are, right?

Just like you said. And when the motivations are in the right place, it's easier to then have that kindness come out. Kindness is rooted in empathy. And so the lack of empathy and just being selfish is going to rob you of your ability to be truly kind. I think people could mask that by saying nice or flattering things.

But those are surface level and they're not genuine. Yeah, it has to be authentic or it's not going to be delivered. And my wife and I, we have this discussion a lot of times because for me as an attorney, words matter. But also like the delivery of those words matter. If I'm in court, the way I'm delivering it matters.

If it's going to be in front of a jury, it matters. Even if it's just in front of a judge, it matters. So sometimes I annoy her a little bit because I like to talk about the delivery, right? The delivery matters. It's like, oh, I can't always say it the right way.

And I'm like, you're right. I got to have some empathy for that. I can't always expect to be said the right way. I do think, though, that the delivery style can make a big difference in my ability to receive things, especially when it's like feedback or criticism. Or disagreements, right?

Acknowledging first and yeah, I agree. Which is, I'm so glad you said that because it reminded me about one of the things that Allison talks a lot about in a lot of our materials. And it's the acknowledgement or validation of the other person first, which is like the whole crux of our podcast. Yes and. Because that's the idea, which is the yes and is a tool or a mechanism to validate somebody else's perspective to them and build on it.

So that we don't tear it down and we don't immediately just disagree. They're just saying that you can disagree without being disagreeable. And I love that because I do think it's important. Like the way that we're going to disagree with somebody matters because again, it comes back to like, what is it we're bringing to the table? How can we have a healthy discussion that's still rooted in kindness and empathy?

And yes, and goes a long way into doing that. Yes, being the acknowledgement and building on it instead of a yes, but. Yes, but being the but sweep where we sweep away what was said before, we really invalidated even though we said yes. The yes and is something I think a lot of people could incorporate better. It would be a tool to continue conversations.

Yeah, such a powerful thing to practice. Okay, so. What. When you're going into a hard conversation. With a client, significant other kid.

What, what mantra is or things do you tell yourself going into it right before you do it to kind of prep yourself for that conversation? Just trying to be as curious as possible. Help me understand, ask better questions. You know, tell me more about why we're here. How did we get here?

How can I help? Um, and that's more of my son for sure. Um, with clients. Understanding or acknowledging the way that they're feeling. It makes sense that you feel this way.

How can I support you? Where do we go from here? So a lot of questions, a lot of just. Reassuring them that I, I hear them where they are here. The emotions I understand where you are.

How can we move forward? What do you need from me? How can I help? Sometimes that's just the easiest question to ask. What do you need from me?

Yeah. It's it can be really effective because they know you care. Yeah. And I don't have a ton of conflict resolution with my clients. Maybe something they're going through if they're going through a divorce.

Right. And so we can talk through it, but it's, it's not, you know. There's not a ton of conflict there. So, um, yeah, I mean, and then just helping them understand, like they don't always have to engage in conflict too. Sometimes you can just step away or just say noted.

Okay. We got, I hear you. I understand. That's an interesting perspective and walk away. Yeah.

Cause there's some times where that, that relationship for whatever reason is, is not going to get built. And so you don't continue down that pathway because it's something where you gotta sometimes have a healthy boundary and be like, okay, got it. I'm going to end the conversation. Yeah. For sure.

Okay. So I'm going to take us to a quick, a couple of quick fun segments. Okay. You ready for these? Sure.

First one's this or that. This or that. Okay. So this or that is you just tell me which one you think. Okay.

Even, even if I think it's wrong, it's totally fine. Okay. I'll tell you if I think it is. I'm just kidding. Okay.

Ariel's secret treasure grotto or Eric's castle. Ariel's secrets for sure. Okay. You like her little, little thing that she's got where she's collected all the human items. Who doesn't want like a secret hut of treasures?

It is pretty cool. It was pretty cool. Yeah. Okay. Scuttle or Sebastian.

Scuttle. No, Sebastian. Oh, Sebastian. Yeah. It's our best friend and there's warmth and it's like a dog.

Yeah. Yeah. Having that connection for sure. I love Sebastian. I love Under the Sea.

So for me, Sebastian because of Under the Sea. But Scuttle is a funny character. Oh, no, I'm thinking of Sebastian. Are you thinking of Flounder? I was thinking of Flounder when I said that.

So I thought Flounder. Okay. No, Sebastian. Sebastian and he is the empathy character of that movie. I think there is no movie without Sebastian.

Yeah. So yes, you're right. Okay. Long walk in the park or being in a coffee shop with background noise. Oh, that's hard.

Both. I probably go to the coffee shop more, but I love walking. Long walks. Okay. Love it.

I got to make you choose. I know that's the this or that. The long walk. Okay. I'm a hiker.

I'm a hiker for sure. I want to get lost in the woods. Phone call or face to face? Face to face. Oh, yeah.

I don't love talking on the phone like at all. I know it seems to be going away with the times, right? You're either texting, which is terrible because phone calls allow you to hear the tone of voice. It does. So it helps more with connection.

But yeah, people want to text or they in person. I have been turned on to the idea of voice memos in recent weeks or even Marco Polo's because then you need a little more context from the person, but then they can listen and watch at their convenience. So if they're not available for a phone call and I can see value in that because then you can see the body language or hear the tone, reflection in their voice a little bit better. Okay. Ask the first question or give the first compliment?

I ask a lot of questions. So you can go ask the first question. Okay. Yeah, I like it. I like it.

Dinner party or late night one on one conversation? Oh, dinner party. Yeah, same. I'm a dinner party guy. Love it.

I love me a good party. They're super fun. Yeah. Okay. Here's a rapid fire.

Okay. Okay. It's the first one that comes to your mind. Okay. Okay.

You ready for this? Yeah. Favorite Disney movie? Little Mermaid. Okay.

Perfect. Favorite Disney song? The Frozen one. Let it go. Let it go.

Oh, classic. So good. So good. Favorite Disney princess? Ariel.

Favorite Disney villain? I'm trying to think of them all. You got Ursula, obviously. You got Jafar. You got Hades.

You got Maleficent. You've got Gothel. You've got... I love Maleficent. Maleficent.

Yeah. A lot of people do. Is that what you're going to go with? Yeah, I'll go with that. Okay.

It's not a bad pick. It's not a bad pick. And I don't know if you're a Disneyland or Disney World gal, but we're going to go with this question anyways. Favorite Disney ride? So I went to Disneyland a couple years ago, and the Star Wars, everything Star Wars, that was like our favorite, but I don't know of any of the Disney rides beyond that.

Yeah, in the Star Wars, you've got Smuggler's Run, which is you're like you're in the Millennium Falcon, and you're just kind of sitting there. You're either the pilot or you're shooting the guns or you're the engineer in the back, right? There's those six bots right there on each side, or then the Superior Ride, which is... Now I can't remember the name of it. Why can't I remember the name of it?

I don't know. But then I will say Cars, the Cars ride was... That was the best roller coaster experience, but the line was so long that it was... Oh, it can be. Yeah, you've got to be real careful.

You've got to get the Lightning Lane, or you've got to go the single rider at Cars, because waiting in the whole regular line for Cars, that's for the birds. Like it could be two hours. It was at least that. Yeah. The other Star Wars ride is Rise of the Resistance, which is phenomenal.

It's like such an amazing... To me, it's the greatest ride experience ever created, but it's amazing. Is that when you're in the car and you're on the thing? Because that was really cool. Yes.

We could have spent the entire weekend in just the Star Wars place. Yeah. They've done a great job with Star Wars land for sure. So fun. Okay.

Favorite book? This is a non-Disney question. Favorite book? The Secret Prayer. The Secret Prayer.

Who's that by? Joe Vitale. Okay. We're going to link that in the notes. We're going to link that in the notes.

Okay. I've never heard it before. I'm going to have to read it. I'm going to have to read it. What's your favorite AI large language model?

Claude. Claude. Yeah. When did Claude take over for you? When was that transition?

Long ago. Long ago. I use them all, but I love Claude for writing and for coding and for workflows and all my apps and DIYs and stuff. I like ChachiPT because they have the GPTs. You can get specific on certain things.

Sometimes I use them all, but Claude's my go-to favorite. Same. Before I knew Claude, it was ChachiPT just because that's the one I was familiar with. But as soon as I figured out Claude, like I'm in that all the time. I love it.

Okay. What is your number one piece of advice to someone getting divorced? Number one piece of advice. I'm advocating for this person. Number one.

No. I'm just like my friend's getting divorced. Start collecting your data. Get organized. Get your inventory together.

Let's figure out where everything is. Get your tax returns. Get some cash. Put your cash in your account. It's marital.

We're not going to lie about it, but you're going to need it. That is so a numbers person response because you told us. You told us you were numbers. You love the numbers. You love this and that.

And I was like, yep, that is. Well, what are we going to fight about? Right. Let's not fight about the numbers. Let's just have that be the easy part.

For sure. Well, as we wrap up, give us maybe kind of your overall takeaway from this topic of communication and about Allison's book, Talk. And then we'll lead that right into our three actionable takeaways. So high level, but we're all kind of wrapping it up and then three actionable takeaways. High level.

I think, you know, the more you can practice T, A, L, and K, the better communicator you'll be, which will trickle into every aspect of your life. So I think it's worth practicing, studying, and improving upon. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Okay.

So what are our three actionable takeaways? Top takeaways. I'm going to say number one topics, be prepared, spend a little time to be prepared, ask better questions that will just make you connect with your person and listen, be an active listener, show the person you care. Fabulous. I love it.

Yeah. Thank you so much for being on with us today. Of course. Great conversation. I know.

It was fun. As you lead this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.