In Tangle, Mother Gothel spends 18 years convincing Rapunzel that the world will destroy her light. But her light was never Gothel's to take. I really see me a lot in that because, you know, wanting love and adoration and to be taken care of, I dimmed that light. I let people take advantage of like a lot of my gifts. It was so bad.

It just wasn't even to fight anymore. The treatment's too hard. I'm terrified to like be in the world anymore. I don't, I'm done. Any voice that is negative is not coming from a source of truth and light.

You get to decide what your life is and who you are. People say life sucks and then you die. And like, not in my world. Yeah, no way. I reject that notion.

I like, it's magical. Go out and smell a flower. Welcome to Yes And Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome back to another episode of Yes And Land.

In Tangled, Mother Gothel spends 18 years convincing Rapunzel that the world will destroy her light. But her light was never Gothel's to take. My guest today, Carly Williams, knows what it means to fight for your light. She's faced battles most of us can't imagine. And in her darkest chapter, she found a golden thread.

Today we're talking about compassion with boundaries and why kindness is the harder path but the right one. So Carly, welcome to Yes And Land. Thank you so much for having me. I'm actually so grateful to be here because my brother, and we'll get into a little bit of this story, fascinating. He was an animator for Disney and he worked on Rapunzel's hair in the movie.

And I seriously am Rapunzel in real life. And so I'm just grateful my brother died last year from cancer. And I'm just like, I love honoring him and feeling like he's like a little, you know, he's helping me and guiding me. So I was grateful that this popped up because he worked for Disney. Yeah, what a neat memory for you to have and to honor him.

And we will definitely dive in more of that. I think it's, there's a lot I think that people can learn from your experiences as you've gone through some really hard things in your life. And it's going to be maybe a little bit hard, we're going to have to be a little vulnerable, right? But in talking about some of those things, and I'm excited for our audience to be able to connect with some of those experiences as they face trials, as they face some things that are really hard and kind of see really a glimpse into what you've done to move through those trials, pass those trials, work with those trials and find the good in life, right? Find like, like Rapunzel does, the delight.

Yeah. So it's gonna be a really, I don't want to say fun, because like, like some things are just like heavy, but like, I think a really, really enlightening, inspiring conversation, like everybody buckle up, like, this is gonna be a good one. This is gonna be a real good one. Okay, so let's take this back. Like what, take us all the way back to like little Carly.

Like, where did you grow up? What was little Carly like? Carly Regan I grew up in Draper, Utah, and I was in musical theater. Like I was obsessed with musical theater. And that's where I grew up is in the theater.

And I feel like it gave me a sense of confidence because you have to put yourself out there. And I became really comfortable with putting myself out there. My dad is an incredible guitar player and singer. And so I inherited a lot of his talent. And then my mom also was in theater, and she was a director.

And I was just very outgoing. And my, I just, I loved being on stage. And I developed my personality and a lot of my confidence there growing up. And I was so grateful for that because in theater, and even in a lot of the Disney movies, you can't have everybody look the same. Everybody has to play a part and every part is so important and you can't look the same.

And so everybody was needed in that. And so when I went to school, I was able to connect with a lot of different people because I understood that everybody played a part. And we needed every single person to create this beautiful production. And so I was around a lot of people that didn't because you can't cast the ingenue in every single role. And I think that that gave me such an advantage.

And I just love people and I'm really outgoing and I want to hear everybody's stories and I'm kind and I'm inclusive. And I've really loved that about me. When you were growing up, what were one of your favorite musicals? Which ones did you just love I loved, and still do, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. That's why I got on stage as I saw Donnie Osmond and I was like, Mom, I am going to be brave and I'm going to audition.

And then I loved Aida. Do you remember Aida? I loved Aida. But I feel like I wanted to be Aida and not the strongest suit character, which everybody wanted to cast me in. Those were my two favorites, for sure.

Yeah, when you're talking about everybody kind of playing a role, what came to my mind is when I think back on some of my experiences in the theater, I couldn't do musical theater because I can't sing. Like legitimately can't. Terrible. But I did straight plays. And one of the most fun ones that I ever did was Rumors by Neil Simon.

Do you know that one? No. It's very much an ensemble cast. Like, it's like there's not really a lead lead character. And so, and it wasn't a huge cast either.

And we had to all like, we had to all bring, for the play to work was like every character had to bring their unique touch and unique feel. And man, I had a great time doing that play because of it. And you just build such like a fun special connection with your castmates. When you do theater, like there's something cool about theater. There is something so cool about theater.

And I, my daughter's doing theater right now. And I'm so grateful because it is, there's something magical about it. You know, you become so tight knit and like people's weird quirks are accepted. And you're just weird together. You know, like you're weird is kind of celebrated because you have to bring certain things to the characters and you can be weird.

And it's like, oh, they're making a choice there. And how can we harness that? You know, and seeing my daughter blossom in that, she's, she's amazing. Like acting wise, you're an actor. I'm not as good at acting.

I love like dancing and singing and being the ingenue and like, you know, but she is so hilarious. And she had her comedic timing is just amazing. I'm like, where did you get that? She's, she just did, she just did the little mermaid. Oh, and she was Scuttle.

She stole the show. She, Scuttle. Yeah. Hilarious. And just like, she, I was blown away.

I was so proud of her because she, and she was really sad when she got that role because she wanted to be Ariel. And the director, who by the way, writes plays for Broadway and has a bunch of Tony's on her wall. So cool. It was so cool. And she's like, nobody can do Scuttle like Navy can.

And so, you know, she was really, really sad. And, and I was like, maybe seriously, you're the only person that can do this role. And she completely stole the show. People still refer to her as Scuttle two years later. And, you know, she was really sad about it, but then she like stepped into this and it was cool to see that somebody else could see something in her and she didn't want to do it.

And then she, you know, was able to just completely blossom in that role. So cool. There's nothing about as good for me as being in a production and having the audience laugh at something you did, especially if you happen to like ad-lib something that comes up or like a mistake that's made, but you can spin it into something and people laugh like, oh man, that's better than any drug for me. Like, give me some laughter from the audience. And if you're going through grief, laughter is so good.

Dark humor is the only thing that's like helped me in my freaking dumpster fire of a life. Like me and my brother, we were going through cancer at the same time and we're like, we're the only people that can do dark humor. And it was so funny, you know, like we would send each other just like hilarious memes and there's something so healing about it. You know, it's like, let's not take this too seriously. Like, yeah, we both have cancer, but like, there's, you know, it's like, it's funny and we were hilarious.

There's something magical about laughter. It brings out and does. And when you can find a way to find joy and laughter in things, it does make life either better to weather the storms, but also more fulfilling when things are going good, right? Just like laughing more. And Mary Poppins, I love to laugh, right?

Like what a great song. Like I love to laugh, you know? And yeah, there's a couple of guys that have come across, they're called the theme park comedians. And so they just do comedy at Disney World. They're like at Disney World like three times a week and they're just doing these little bits, all clean humor, all family friendly, and they're just hilarious.

And I got the opportunity to speak with one of them and you can just feel the joy coming from them all the time. Like anything comes up, he is just like, I could just laugh that guy all day. You know what I'm trying to do? Like be that kind of person who just like brings joy to other people. Yes.

Yeah. So fun. And one part of my story, it's how people ask me to speak, you know, and I'm going through my story. And it's kind of awkward because I had breast cancer. Like I just ruined the whole thing for you.

But I'm telling my story and it's so heavy that I have to like make it funny, you know? And so I'm like, you know, I'm going through and I go through chemo and then I get my double mastectomy and they're like, we can do a nipple sparing double mastectomy. And I'm like, sorry, dad, I've never thought I would say nipple to you, but here we are. And then I'm like, payment and surgery because there was like pinpoints of cancer behind my nipples. Yeah, I can't even say nipples without like laughing.

And then in this speech, I always go, you know, so I didn't ask for much universe. I just wanted to keep my nipples, but you don't even give me that. It was like, you have to have some comedy and your life is so hard. And then, you know, it helps the audience connect with it and kind of witness it without putting up their walls up like, oh my gosh, you know? And so there's definitely, there's definitely so much with the funny character in the shows, right?

Like we have to have the comedy. And my mom actually just started to do standup comedy at Wise Guys. I kid you not. No way. Of our story again, we've been through so much trauma and she's like, she snuck and did it without telling any of us.

And she's amazing. She's hilarious. We're like, my mom's going to like Wise Guys Comedy Club. The standup's hard. She's so good.

She's so funny. And she's like, it's the only thing that's really been able to let's keep going. Let's keep laughing. Standup's one of those things where I think, I mean, one of these days I'm going to give it a shot because I think it's good to take yourself out of your comfort zone, even if you're never going to be like a standup comic for your career or something like that. But just the opportunity to experience something and put yourself out there to try something that's really hard.

Because I think that it can be really hard. And it also seems like kind of a fun challenge to take on. Oh my gosh. We need to find out when your mom's doing it next. We need to go see her.

No, for real. The last time we went, we invited, she's very Mormon. So she invited her whole ward. And you know, standup comedy world, you said clean because the easiest thing to do is go very disgusting. Sexual or dirty.

It's so dirty. So the other comics were kind of taking digs because they knew that the bishop was there and all the Relief Society. And then it was all of these young comics that were talking about really inappropriate things. And it was so funny. And my mom, she got the most people there.

And she's like, there really needs to be clean comedy because it's so healing. And you have to go to these places that you don't really want to hear those nasty jokes. It was uncomfortable for me. And I'm like, here's what my cute little mom is. And she's like, you know, we're all crazy here.

We have our diet cokes and our shoulders now. We're crazy. It's so cute. Oh, that's awesome. There is a big push or I guess rise in popularity for clean comics.

Nate Barghatze is huge right now. You've got a bunch of other ones who are really great too. Like I saw the Netflix special from Ryan Holiday. Have you seen him? No.

So funny. And one of them is talking about getting hit by a bus because he actually got hit by a bus. And he's so funny. There's another guy, Derek Stroop, I think is his name. He's actually coming to Salt Lake here in a couple of weeks.

Man, he's got some funny stuff. Totally clean. You're just like, this is amazing. I'm so grateful because it's so healing. You really have to laugh.

Yeah. Like you can't make this stuff up. So you grow up and you love musical theater and you come from a performing family. I would guess you guys probably knew how to laugh in your house. For sure.

Is that fair? Yeah. How many siblings you had? You made reference to your brother. How many of there were you?

So I have an older brother and then five sisters. Oh my goodness. Sorry, four sisters, five girls. So I know my brother used to call our house the PMS Palace and he was right. My dad and my brother are like amazing because we put them through hell.

Yeah. So where did you fall? I'm number four. So my brother and then two older sisters, me and then two younger sisters. And it's so funny because my brother's a performer.

He was amazing at guitar as well. And obviously he's a creative, right? He went and he became an animator at Disney and Pixar and would write songs and actually has his own screenplay that he wrote before he passed away. And so we have him and it was like my other two sisters, like, no, like they are very reserved. Like they don't want it.

My older sister, Allison, is like, they just can't even watch you on social media because you're so open. And I'm like, they train you to be open in New York. Like that's what performers do. You connect to vulnerability. That is it.

And she's like, I know. Just like, you're so open and you're just like, your house is messy. And you like put it on there. I'm like, well, yeah. And so- And she has a messy house.

Yes. And then my two younger sisters, like my little sister sings. And then my other little sister, again, like she's like, I don't want to be in the performing world. So we were very divided, you know? But because some people have musical theater families and all of them do it.

But it was basically like, I was obsessed with it. I had really a lot of talent that I loved. And people were like, you're a lot sister. I'm like, I know. Really?

Thank you. I'm like, favorite child. Oh, it's for you, dad and mom. You know it's true. You know it's true.

You know it's true. Like it's all the time they ask me like, who's your favorite? I'm like, oh, come on. You're like, you. You know it's you.

I know. My little assessment after that day, she's like, dad, who's your favorite? We just got back from Disneyland and she wasn't with us. Who's your favorite? I was like, honey, I don't have a favorite.

She's like, but who's your favorite? I was like, you are. Because you're just going to say it to people who ever ask. You know, you're just going to say it, right? Well, I have identical twins and they're always like, which twin do you like better?

I'm like, first of all, you guys are literally identical. And you're very different. I'm obsessed with both of you. And I'm like, but if I had to I was forced to. If I had to choose.

So you, how does life play out after that? So you grow up, you grew up in Draper, involved in musical theater. What happens post high school for you? What does life take you from there? Yeah, I was actually bullied really bad in high school and I wanted to get away from that.

I was a cheerleader because I didn't want to be like the theater kid or I wanted to, you know, I loved cheering. I loved dancing. And so I was a cheerleader and then I got bullied really bad. And so I wanted to get out. And so I moved to New York at 18.

Can you believe my parents trusted me? They are so cool. And I went to a musical theater conservatory right behind Lincoln center. And I learned so much there and I grew so much. And I'm so proud of myself for that.

Such a little brave, I'm a brave little thing, you know, at 18, moving straight to New York city from Utah. I know it was, it was wild. How long were you there? I was there about a year and a half. And then I came home for a bit.

And then I finished in LA because I wanted to get like both sides of my conservatory because they do film out there and my brother was living there. And I was kind of dating somebody. And so I wanted to be a little closer to Utah because the world, yeah, we keep talking about clean. One of the reasons why we love Disney is because so many things in the entertainment industry are just filthy. And it was fascinating to me, like my professors would make me, you know, say the F word and I had never said the F word before.

Like I was this little Mormon girl and I wouldn't and they would get like mad at me. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm not going to say the C word. And like, that's disgusting, you know. And it was hard for me to like maintain my light.

And I didn't want to be in that world. I wanted, I just, I really love my, my family and I just couldn't see how I could be in that world and like have what I really wanted, you know? So I came back and went to BYU and met my, my ex-husband and that's kind of what happened after high school. Not everywhere can be the happiest place on earth. And at RCG Law Group, my job outside of our podcast, we get that.

Life throws curve balls, legal stuff, family stuff, the things you didn't see coming. That's what we're here for. If you're dealing with something and don't know where to turn, give RCG a call. So you, you got married and you guys have three kids, a pair of what your twins sounds like. Yes.

Just fun. So fun. Is that hard? Is that hard to have twins? You already have one at the time.

Yeah. And she's like an angel baby, right? So, so you have one and suddenly instead of going to simply two, you suddenly go to two and three. Yes. And I was like devastated because I felt like other people were picking it.

And I, like in my current situation, like I didn't really have a lot of help. It was kind of like we were in our roles and I, I did everything with the kids and like, I, you know, he was in law school and I just wanted to be like, he just, he was, you know, the person that never really like changed diapers and everything and like thought that was funny and cool. And I was just like, oh, whatever, you know, just whatever. And I didn't really realize how hard, how hard that was. And so when I got pregnant with twins, I was actually scared to tell him because it was an accident that, and it was just, it just like happened and they don't tell you, you get pregnant with, until you get pregnant with identical twins, it's not genetic.

Anybody's egg can split anyone's. And so I was by myself because I, you know, and I'll just be like really open and honest, like it was challenging to get support. So I was like, no, no, no, like I'm good. Like I can just go, I can go to the appointment by myself. And so I was alone and I found out I was having twins and I called my mom before and I was like, mom, I'm having twins.

And I was like scared to call my husband and tell him. And he said, well, we're done. That's for sure. And he didn't even want to get pregnant. So it was like, it was, it was hard because I felt like there was this miracle that happened and I was scared to tell the person that I loved about it.

So it was, and it was, it was very hard. It was so hard. But also in hindsight, it's a way that God really showed up in my life. Sure. Because after that, I always wanted three kids and my ex-husband wanted one because my daughter, Navy, is literally an angel.

And he's like, why would we mess that up? You know? And then I got pregnant with the twins and I had them and then got my three kids. I'm like, God, like, thank you. You know?

And so I was good, I was done. And then I got diagnosed with breast cancer when my twins were, I think, three. And it wasn't as heavy because I already had my babies and I didn't have to worry about not having kids anymore. And a lot of people that get diagnosed with breast cancer, huge part of it is that loss of kids. And one of my best friends, you know, she was going through infertility and got diagnosed and she had to deal with like the fact that she could potentially never be a mom and never carry kids because it's like pouring gasoline on our kind of cancer.

And so even though, again, it was so hard, I'm like, God, wow. Like, thank you. Thank you for like listening to me and giving me these beautiful, healthy children that I and I don't have to worry about that aspect in treatment. And that's really hard, really hard for people going through breast cancer. It's that part of it.

Yeah. So we're going to come back to that. Let's dial in Tangled. Okay. Let's bring it back.

Okay. Everybody knows the story of Tangled, right? As we look at kind of what Rapunzel's experiencing, so kind of overview, right? So she's with the King and Queen and Mother Gothel needs to have this little flower that keeps her young for what appears to be centuries is what it appears to be, right? Yeah.

And then this flower is found because the Queen is struggling to, for this pregnancy, right, with Rapunzel. And so the people of the kingdom find this flower, they, I guess they boil it down, it looks like, and then have the Queen drink it so that she can save her life and the baby's life. And then of course it makes Rapunzel have the magic hair, right? Which we all know about. And so then later Mother Gothel kidnaps her and takes her to the tower.

So when we look at kind of some of the lessons that we have, let's take a look at like the arc of what Rapunzel's experiencing and specifically with things like her life being dimmed, right? And hidden? By Mother Gothel and being hidden. And then what it takes for her to recognize that, ultimately break free from that, and then how does her life change as a result of it? So initially, what do you see as the lesson that we're learning from Rapunzel being trapped away in this tower and having Mother Gothel just completely control everything in her life?

Well, I think that it shows that certain people are in our lives and they affect us and we have no control or choice over their effect on us, right? Like Rapunzel didn't choose that. She didn't choose to be placed in that. And she, with this bright little happy thing that was making the for people that have parents that weren't like my parents are incredible. It's so amazing.

And I've seen people who've had controlling parents and it really has an effect on them, right? And some people choose to be like Rapunzel and then other people choose to repeat the pattern. I think I've personally dealt with that a lot. And I notice that control is something from like, it's just getting repeated and somebody has to break the pattern. With Mother Gothel, I mean, part of what she's trying to do is manipulate Rapunzel into staying.

Yeah, she's physically in this tower, but she climbs up and down Rapunzel's hair all the time. And Rapunzel could definitely climb down her own hair to get out, but she's got to manipulate her, dim her light, make her believe she doesn't have that ability to do anything really for herself. And so it's interesting when we look at what that parallel is for things in our life. Sometimes it might be parents, but sometimes it might be other things that we encounter that make us believe that we're not good enough, make us believe that we can do something. To what degree in your life was that something you experienced when a lot of things came crashing down, right?

When you had cancer diagnosis and some of those things are really, really hard because you're this sweet girl who loves musical theater and has got great parents and you've got this sweet loving family and you've got all this light and then suddenly circumstances that you didn't choose, that you didn't control or suddenly coming in and trying to take away and dim that light. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I really do. I really see me a lot in that because I feel like for wanting love and adoration and to be taken care of, I dimmed that light and I let people take advantage of a lot of my gifts.

And then when Rapunzel asks for these tiny little things in return, my gosh, this is so embarrassing, she asks for little things and is like, thank you so much for giving me my pain brain. She's trapped in this tower and she's so grateful for these little bread crumbs and I can relate a lot to that. And so we moved and then needed to buy asthma medication because we didn't have insurance and it was like $500. And so I went and I'm sitting here taking care of the baby, super supportive and I think I'm having this big impact. I'm giving so much love.

I used to be in Gladys Knight's choir and then we had to move for that and I did that willingly. I kept putting off singing and everything that was bringing me joy to just really invest in this person and in our family. And then I thought that that would be reciprocated. And then when I needed asthma medication, I was told that if I wanted to get asthma medication, I needed to go and get a job. And I was like a mother and I had given up everything for this person.

And then it broke my heart. But I rose to the occasion and I started a social media and I started to make my own money and I was able to contribute to our family in a way that I never even thought was possible. And my musical theater training really helps me with that because I know how to connect with people and I know how to be vulnerable and I know that vulnerability is the way. It's not, it's a gift to be able to be vulnerable and I didn't know that because when you're training in musical theater, you get the gift of vulnerability because they're like, I can't believe you're not connected to the piece. Sit down.

And I'm like, you know, and they're trying to get you to connect emotionally with people. And that was something that I, that was a gift that I had that I got to develop and I was really successful in a way that felt so like amazing to me because I felt like I could share my life that was dimmed for so long, you know, when you become a mom and then you're not. And so, you know, when Rapunzel exits the tower and she's like running around in the fields and then she's like, you know, it's like, I had, I had that, I got some of that like expression back and some of that light back. And I was really, I was really grateful that I was provided with that opportunity because it really, really, really helped me. There's parallels there that I'm seeing is, you know, Rapunzel had every excuse to not continue to be kind, passionate and caring and to not want to connect.

And yet, what we see is like, the second that opportunity comes, like, yeah, she's a little bit defensive with Flynn Rider when he first comes at the same time, like, he's also talking to him and she's telling him things. And then when they get down at the tower, she's expressing what her fears are, right? To him, she's actually being vulnerable to him. And then like you said, once they go to the snuggly duckling, and she immediately connects with like all these like, terrible, theoretically terrible people who are supposed to be doing these terrible things. And yet she immediately connects with them and she connects through song, which is also a really lovely song, by the way, I'm getting a dream.

What a great song. But she is still able to have that connection and let her light start to come out that Mother Gothel wasn't actually able to truly like get rid of or hide. Like it was still there. She still had it within her. She just needed to have the opportunity for it to come out.

And, you know, one of the things that Mother Gothel said that I wrote down, and this actually came afterwards when she's trying to convince her to come back, but I think it applies equally as well. Mother Gothel told her like, the world is dark and selfish and cruel. If it finds even the slightest ray of sunshine, it destroys it. So like that's what Mother Gothel believes about life and what she's trying to convince Rapunzel of is, no, no, no, the world's terrible. It's awful.

It's mean. It's horrible. It's just going to try to crush you. And boy, that is a pessimistic view of life, isn't it? Oh my gosh.

And I, you know, I'm kind of into the whole, like, we create a reality based on like our thoughts and our perception and our perceptual filter that we pick up. And it's a choice to do that, right? And like with breast cancer, I was like, what if I pick this? What if I pick this spiritually? What could I find?

Right? And I got it. I started to see all of these like amazing gifts that I had, even though I didn't want to be doing it. Right? Like whatever happened to Mother Gothel, right?

She's like, the world's terrible. And, you know, I had people tell me like, remember I was my first round of chemo. I was like, I'm going to crush this. You know, I'm like a fitness instructor. And I'm like, I had my own business and I had a following and I was like, I'm freaking pissed.

And I walked in like, I'm going to crush this. Like I'm going to pass. I'm going to cold plunge. And, you know, I love glucose stabilization. I'm just going to, you know, be this little, little cheerleader.

And my nurse was like, nope, your bones are really going to hurt. And this is going to really, it's going to be really hard for you. Right? World is so dark. Stop trying to be light, you know?

And I was so like angry because I'm like, do you know the thought model? And do you know, that thoughts create a chemical reaction in you and then they create your reality because you act on that thought and like whatever you think is actually happening in real life, you know, if I really think it's going to be so hard and I can't do it, I'm not going to try. And guess what? Chemo was horrific, but I was working out three days later and I was kind of a badass. And I chose to be like that.

Right? I wanted to show my daughter, like, you can choose to like harness this incredible energy and this incredible light that is beyond all understanding hard, but it really like will show up if you connect to it, you know? Yeah. And so, but you're going to see that if you, if you really view the world that it's terrible, world will present that to you. Your brain finds evidence to make that true.

Definitely true. 100%. So take me back to when you first find out about your cancer diagnosis, because it, I mean, maybe, maybe it was, was your initial reaction, just being positive about it, or did you feel a little bit of happiness at first? Oh no, I had like a full blown mental breakdown. Yeah.

I'm not going to imagine. Well, I just felt so duped, right? Because I have, I will not mess around with my body. I was monitoring all my blood sugar levels, I was working out, I didn't eat sugar, I loved body transformation. I thought women are so cool.

Like they have these beautiful babies and they feed them from this body. And then I could get a six packer and I wanted everybody to feel how amazing that felt, right? Because I had to kind of validate myself. And so I was just so respectful of my body. And so when I got it, it just felt very duped.

Like me, like I'm 33. I'm not, it shouldn't be happening to me. You know what I mean? Yeah, doing everything I'm supposed to do physically. Yeah.

Like I shouldn't have been eating sugar for goodness sake. You know, like the heck, the heck, you know? And so I, no, I was so, I really lost it because I felt like I had worked so hard. And then it was like life presented me with like, I'm going to take everything you love away from you. And my brother also had a brain tumor.

And so many- Did you find out first or did he find out first? So he found out first. He got a brain tumor at 29 and he had a brain tumor for 10 years before I got diagnosed. His brain tumor, he should not have been alive. He is a little Disney walking miracle.

He should not have been able to survive. And he was in brain surgery, was supposed to die in that brain surgery. And he actually was walking around with an angel. I kid you not. He was walking around with an angel.

He doesn't remember the conversation, but they asked him if he wanted to to like go back. And he said with a heavy heart, he said he would go back. And the angel said like, you know, it's going to be really, really hard though, don't you? And he's like, yeah, I know it's going to be really hard. And so he came back to his body and his little three-year-old passed away like, like really soon after that.

And the way it happened was very traumatic, like horrific. And when I got diagnosed, it was just like very shocking because we were already dealing with cancer and we just felt like God was like playing some joke on us, you know? I freaked out because I just definitely had like a massive trauma response because I think my brain was like, I'm going to get cancer and then my kid's going to die. That's what God is going to do to me. And like, I think that that's what was happening.

And then a lot of stuff was going on in my personal life that was very like scary. And I couldn't tell anybody about it. And so I, it was just like, I can't do this. I can't do this. And I literally like completely like trauma response.

Like it was like psychotic break for sure. What was the first conversation with your brother like after you found out your diagnosis? He's like, he always said that he felt like he, old God, that he would take on all the trials for all of his little sisters. He inspired me so much, like how he showed up for his wife after, you know, their daughter died and how they never like lost hope and faith. And they never, they did live a little Disney life, you know?

And it's like the worst, the worst things ever. And he just was like, oh, I'm so, so sorry, you know? But he's like, I never cry. And he's like, your cancer is so much harder than I'm like, Eddie, you have a brain tumor. What are you talking about?

Like, I'm fine. Like, I'm good. Like, I just was bald. And he's like, no, he's like, because I had married his wife. He's like, I could not do it.

And you've been doing this all by yourself. And that was a big wake up call for me when he said that, because I felt like it was so hard. It was so horrible. Like, we can't, I can't even talk about it. You're a divorce attorney.

You get it. It was so horrific. My story is so hard and I'll never be able to tell it. And we definitely want to be very respectful of the experiences that need to stay there. Also with that, you see you get the cancer diagnosis and then you end up going through a divorce during this process, right?

Yeah. So I got, so I did everything and I got a clean scan and I was done. But there was a lot of damage done when I was in chemo. And so, you know, it exposed a lot of really, really, really problematic things for me that I couldn't like ignore. And then, you know, I had turned a blind eye a lot and I was like, no, just be supportive and just be kind.

And like, you know, I always made the best of the situation and it worked. And then when I couldn't be the, when I needed something, right. And I like actually couldn't. It was very, it brought out a lot of realities that were very damaging. And I couldn't really get over it because I didn't feel like it was properly addressed.

And so after I was like, we just got to like get through this chemo. Like I can't go through a divorce right now, you know, and I can't, like I can't, and I don't want to. Like I think that everybody deserves grace. And I think that people, when they are in trauma situations, do weird things. Like I did weird things.

You know what I mean? Like I was like walking around singing in the streets and, you know, we process things differently. And so I wanted to just like chalk it up to that and be like, no, that was just, you know, that was just like some unhealed trauma responses and now we can get back to reality. But it became very hard to ignore, you know, with everybody in my life. So it was like, so like, it's not, first of all, you don't deserve this.

And second of all, this is an issue. And that's hard, right? Because you like, like I love the father. I still like, I will always like love the father of my children, like so much. Like I feel so much love for him.

And I love me for that. I love me that I can like, I have the capacity to look and realize like it had nothing to do with me. I want to be like loving instead of hating. I don't want to be the mother Gothel. I don't want to.

I want to be the one. It's so, I feel like we're living in a world right now where everyone's like, nobody can change and everybody is the worst. And, you know, we're just feeling like so much hate, so much like, there's so many hard things going on in the world, but like we have the capacity to change that and to soften people's hearts. Just like looking at them with love and compassion and grace. And of course I had to learn degrees because I don't really have in my thought that like love could heal all.

But yeah, a year after I got it again, it was so bad. It just wasn't even a fight anymore. I was like, I can't, I can't. My heart's broken. I don't feel like I have the capacity.

The treatment's too hard. I'm terrified to like be in the world anymore. I don't, I'm done. I want to give up, right? Like, you know that part when she's like, okay, I'll go back with you.

I was just like, I'm good. You know, I told my husband at the time, like, I'm just going to be a really good angel for our family because I can't. And he was like, okay. And then miraculously, like a Disney movie, I caught this like crazy protocol from Twitter that prolonged my life for a year. Like I thought it was, I thought it was in the Twilight Zone and I died like after my second diagnosis.

And the day before his funeral was my PET scan and it was supposed to show that my cancer had spread everywhere. And I had been doing this miraculous protocol that came to me. Like it was literally God's golden thread. Like, here you go. Like, you're not going to die because I couldn't, I couldn't fight anymore.

I was like, all my light was gone. I wasn't even there, you know? And then God was like, no, you're not going to, you're, you're going to live. And so like it came to me in three different ways. And it was all just like within a week of each, it was just crazy.

And we, if you've been in the cancer world, everybody has the cure, right? And I didn't even listen anymore. I was like, I'm defeated. I can't, I've done chemo, radiation, double mastectomy. I had done radiation again.

Like, I was like this, you know, I'm good. I'm good, God. This is too dark. Like, I can't, I can't shine anymore, you know? And then, and then I miraculously got the clean scan.

I started sharing that on social media and started to help other people have similar results. And so I've been going through that divorce for the last year and I got re-diagnosed. And no, I think I'm okay with it. I've just had to kind of like keep going, you know what I mean? And I had to, I had to kind of have that little lantern of like, there has to be a gift here.

There has to be a gift because if you don't look at that lantern, you realize that you're in the don't lose that like little glimmer, right? That you have inside of your heart. That's like, like life is good. Life is good. I just get through this really, really, really crappy swamp in order to get to, to the lights and the lights are so worth it.

Right? Yeah. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like, rate, and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you.

We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality. And that's what Rapunzel held onto, right? She saw the lights literally once a year because she didn't know it, but it was on her birthday. And that just inspired her. There was something inside of her that knew what that meant.

Yeah. And that that was something that, that light that she could look at. Yeah. You know, and you know, when you mentioned a part that I think is an important part for us to take a look at, which is when she first comes down to the tower and she's like very conflicted, right? Yes.

And even to the point where Flynn Rider says, you know, I can't help but notice you seem a little at war with yourself here. Right. And so, you know, how do you, how do you see that manifest either for you or just like internal life for people when you're, you're coming away from something that's trying to dim your light and you're trying to do something different, but you still have this like conflict about it. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Well, because like in, in my marriage, I did not want to get divorced. I did not. Like, I'm still having a hard time. Like, I could potentially die and now I have to care my kids 50% of the time. And like, I have to rebuild when I'm like, like it's, it just seemed like so unfair.

And honestly, I have such a good heart that I'm like, I can look at this situation and I'm like, this is not you. Like, you know, I'm like, I, I don't want this for our family. I think that like everybody can, I really do believe like everybody can change. And I'm, I'm super religious. I'm a big Jesus girl, you know?

And I'm like, we have to believe that people are capable if they choose it. It's just like really hard when you want somebody to change and they want. I think we have to believe it ourselves too, because if we want to be better and we want to believe we can be better, we have to believe that people can. Yeah. Because otherwise then we won't ever change.

Totally. And I've changed a lot. You know, I love that about me. I'm like, I used to hate working out and now I was like a fitness instructor and I never thought I could make money. And I did that.

And, you know, I went to New York and I was terrified and I figured out the city and subway systems. It's like, that's, you know, kind of life. And I always felt like, oh, whenever life brings you something, if you're willing to look at your part, like there can be a diamond in there that can make you even stronger, but diamonds have to go through that pressure. And I don't, do you think that like the, do you think that coal is like, I'm so excited to be a diamond. Are they like, I don't really want to do that.

Like I'm good to be coal. Like I'm good. I don't excited to be to come a diamond or they just like the freaking stocks and they can't see it. I always wanted that. They could talk.

Yeah. I mean, it's a good analogy though, because we're that way. Right. We were talking about that in the pre-show that, you know, there's times like we, we don't want to have to go through hard things. It's not like, we're like, well, let me spin the wheel of trials in my life.

I want to choose. I'm going to have cancer, not once, but twice. And my brother's going to have a brain tumor at the same time. And I go through a divorce at the same time. I'm going to choose that on the spin wheel.

Right. We don't, we don't do that. Yes. Yeah. And yet it's the experiences we have that create us being in diamond.

It's those experiences we have that shape who we actually are now and who we can become. Yeah. And I have this knowledge that there is something that is weaving our stories, whether you want to believe it or not. It is, you know, like when you're out of the darkness, you can see the hand of, you know, the divine in a way that you're like, you're rude, but you were there. You know what I mean?

And like, I don't know what was me of that or what was you or whatever, but sometimes I think that that can be such a beautiful gift that we get out of it is, oh man, like there's something that really cares about me because I should not be alive right now. And the fact that I can experience joy and I have this workout and this workout and this workout, there was something that was looking out for me. You know, it's probably my brother too. And he's the best. It's like my little guardian angel, you know?

For sure. My little Disney genie. Yeah. So great. Well, I, you know, I'm preparing a quote that I really like from somebody we both really enjoy, which is Brene Brown.

And I'm going to try to get emotional reading it. I'm already like, you get about, she said about compassion. Compassionate people ask for what they need. They say no when they need to. And when they say yes, they mean it.

They're compassionate because their boundaries keep out a resentment. Isn't that interesting? I think I had a lot of resentment. Yeah. I feel like I overgave wanting something in return.

Yeah. You know, instead of just being like, again, love, you think like giving is love. Like really, if I give all my light, that like, I'll receive it back. And then you realize that you have none left. And it's taken.

You know, something else that we talked about before that I think is interesting here, when we think about compassion as well, because there's a component of this compassion, which is, yes, I can be compassionate and I can set the boundary. I can be understanding of someone's situation and still not continue to entertain that relationship. Right. And I wrote this down and this is like, this is a quote going way back. Okay.

I'm going to drop it. This is Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Okay. That if we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life, sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility. Right.

Like there was clearly stuff in Mother Gothel's past where she felt like she needed to stay young forever. Right. That's why she starts with that flower. There was something that she had where that's this need that she had. And then as she continued to do that and defy time and nature, she becomes more and more hardened to it.

But if we could roll it back and then truly understand how she got there, we might have more compassion for her. It doesn't excuse her behavior. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't have the boundary. The repuntal shouldn't have the boundary, but it does help in having more compassion. So interesting when you said that.

I'm like, oh, I've been there. I don't want to get older. Especially in a divorce, it's like, oh, they can go for the 20-year-old that doesn't have cancer and doesn't have surgeries and doesn't have, I mean, I get Botox, so I don't have a ton of wrinkles, I'm going to confess. Well, I keep hoping that when you start coming to your head that you start to sing the song. Hey, one more thing before we move on.

There's a show I've gotten really into lately called The Wisdom of Walt. And I don't usually do this, but it's earned it. If our show is your kind of thing, I'll bet you'll enjoy that one too. So go give it a listen. You know, wannabe, you know, and the Disney princesses have hearts of gold and they have to give love even when they don't want to.

And they go through hard things. They go through the hardest. Yeah. The hardest, right? Like think about how many Disney princesses, their parents have died, right?

Or like that they think they have, right? Rapunzel obviously must believe that her father's dead, right? And she thinks she's got to go through her mom, but what a terrible mom she is, right? She's gone through some hard stuff, being kidnapped for your life. And yet like here, really what we're seeing too is that that light that she had really continued to burn inside of her.

And he didn't let these horrible situations and circumstances put that light out. And when given the opportunity, then it just shined even more. Yeah. Well, and I realized with myself, like I became a point or I got to a point where I wasn't shining my light anymore. I was being, you know, I was reacting.

I was spewing horrible things. Like I, you know, I, and it's because I just, I'm like, I love you. Like, ah, I, you know, I've given you so much, like, ah, you know, and it's like, then the resentment comes, right? And then you realize that that's not, that's not it. That's not love.

Like love is reciprocated. Love is like, I'm going to give this to you because I'm full and I don't need anything back and it's not going to hurt me. Right. And so I think that it took a lot for me to choose love and not, it was a part of me that wanted to just burn my whole freaking mind to the ground. Right.

I'm like, what am I even doing? Why do I even try to be a good person? Why do I try to help people through cancer? Why did I build this business for him to take it? Why, you know, like why, why, why, why, why?

And then I'm like, no, I'm like, choose the harder path, choose the harder path and the harder, harder path is kindness. And I love what you said. One of my favorite books is called Seven Lessons from Heaven. And again, I'm a big Jesus girl. We love Jesus.

Thank you. So she, this, her name is Mary C. Neal and she died and she met Jesus. And in her life review, um, Jesus, what he did was he brought up all of these, this, these, um, instances in her life when she had wronged somebody or been wronged. And what his power did was he could help each person in this scenario understand every single decision in that person's life and understand them perfectly as to why they treated them that way.

And there was nothing but compassion all around because you had perfect understanding of why that person did that and the pain that led up to that. And every time I put on that lens, I have nothing but love and compassion for my ex-husband so much, so much. I wish I could get it back. I wish my family was still intact, but like that is my true heart is I can look at him and say like, holy crap, I can't imagine certain things. And like, I'm, I'm proud of you.

And that's really hard to do. It's very hard to do. But I am like, I'm proud of him for like showing up in a lot of the stuff he's been through. I can't imagine some of the things he's been through that I didn't have to go through. Yeah.

It's, uh, actually in the quote I wrote down that you just, what you're saying, it just leads so perfectly to this. And this one really went through me for a loop, uh, when I found it. Um, it says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and simultaneously. So like, as you're talking about it, like you have found a way to still have love and compassion for him, but there is a boundary that has to be there so you can still love you and not have that resentment. Like right now where it's, uh, you, part of that is you guys are divorced.

And so there are certain boundaries that have to be there because you're divorced and there are certain things that you can't entertain because that distance needs to stay there. And, and to yes, and right. There's more of this yes and yes. And you can keep your boundaries. Are included for people.

I believe that it can prove that you're a great example of, of navigating that really, really hard circumstances. Yeah. And like, I can do it better with boundaries. Like I can love you from afar. Like I do this thing, tactics, kind of weird and embarrassing, but I'm going to, I'm going to say it anyways, cause it's actually been very healing for me.

I threw a lot of stuff, you know what I mean? So I have some tips and tricks, but like I was saying at the beginning, our world reflects what is going on internally, right? Like circumstances in the world are completely neutral. We have a thought about them and we make meaning based on our own experience. That thought has a chemical reaction in our body as a feeling.

And then we act from that feeling, but it all starts with thoughts. And I didn't know this until I was, you know, 33 that we actually can pick that. I'm like, you can pick your thoughts. And one of my coaches was like, no, you can, your brain presents you with all kinds of crazy data and thoughts. And then you get to say, Oh, I'm going to take this one and I'm going to put it in my heart.

Right. And then a belief is just a thought that you keep on thinking over and over again. And so fascinating to me, right? Like you have a relationship with my brother and he's not even physically here because of my thoughts and feelings about him. Certain things will pop into my head that will make me laugh that I'm like, Oh, like, hi, Eddie, you know, and if you've lost somebody, you know that that happens, you know?

And so with something that's been so helpful for me is I think about my soul and my ex's soul, like true soul, right? This is so weird, but I'll have like conversations like with his soul and I'll give him so much love with his soul, because if you're in your soul, like you don't treat people the way, you know, and it's been so healing for me to just like be able to give love to his soul. And so I'll imagine talking to his soul and then it brings a lot of peace because I can like love him and imagine a conversation and my body responds as if it's really happening, right? Like your brain doesn't know the difference between imagination and like really experiencing something. And so I just will imagine, Grijind, you know, the good one, right?

We all have good and bad. We do. I have a lot of bad in me, of course, and I have so much love and compassion for myself, because I don't know many people that have gone through what I've gone through, and I've been able to survive it in a way that, and I haven't done it perfectly, you know, I've said things online that I shouldn't have and everything, but everybody has good. And if you go to the good part of your heart and you can imagine talking to the good part of them, then it's very healing. And so I, you know, that's what I do.

I'll just like talk to his soul and be like, hey, like, I forgive you for this and like forgive me for this. And then you don't have to be waiting on somebody's like reaction, because if everybody was in their soul, like you said in that quote, there would be nothing but love and compassion. So I want to get into my soul and talk to, and talk to, you know, him, because when we're acting out of fear and anger, like you're not in your soul. You're not, you're not in your heart. And so for me, it's been helpful to go back to the version of him, pre-cancer and everything, when our marriage was pretty good and good.

And I love my kids so much. And I hope that that makes it a difference, like, you know, in hippie-dippy-land and in the magical land of Disney, like, maybe that makes a difference. You know what I mean? Maybe there's something so magical about this world that we can't see that that makes an impact. And so that's just what I've been doing lately is like, I can't talk to him because it's so explosive.

And when I look at him, I'm like, I don't know who you are. You've been through it or some sure. I'm sure that's how everybody feels. It's like this person that was best friend and everything is now my enemy sometimes. And so now I just go to that, you know, the person that was like in the delivery room with me.

Like everybody has good and bad. And I can put on each filter. And I, you know, reality, you have to be in reality and have the reality filter. And you can create love even by yourself from afar. So that's what I've been doing.

So I'm gonna put a row down from Martin Luther King Jr. He said, darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that.

And to me, you know, when we talk about, you know, speaking to somebody's soul, like part of I think what it's doing is it's putting us in that love. It's having us live in love. So even if, you know, he's not really hearing it or receiving it, right, it's just in having those thoughts. And we're living in that space. When we're living in a space of gratitude for what we do have, action for things that go on, love for other people, that brings more light.

It drives out darkness in our own heart, in our own soul. And then we can show that light better to others. We just can. Yeah. And think about the people that we love the most that have the best, that are the best examples to us.

You know, like Gandhi and, like they've all gone through these horrible, horrible, horrible things. And then they've been able to choose love anyway. And that takes so much strength. It's not weakness. And like, I think that a lot of times we have a lot of shame and then, you know, like you feel bad about things that you've done because you love that person and you can't deal with the shame.

And so you can, you know, anytime that you're in a trial, think like, Holy cow, like you're one of the great ones because I had the opportunity to choose, you know, like I had the opportunity to choose love and be that example, like Nelson Mandela, you know, would they be who they were without these horrific things? And I would have preferred to like just have a little princess life and like not have to do everything. But if the world presented this opportunity for me, like what if I am supposed to be the princess that can name all of things, you know, at the end, how she's like throwing all of these amazing parties and like showing up for the kids. And, you know, she had to go through all of these horrible, horrible, horrible things to be able to have that impact because a lot of best leaders have been through the worst things and you have so much respect for people who have been through the worst things and choose love anyway. Yeah.

As the movies wrapping up, technically right before it really does is there has to be some more conflict with Mother Gotham and such. But when she's on a little boat with Flynn Rider, right, and they're gonna go see the Lanters and they have this exchange. She says, I've been looking out a window for 18 years, dreaming about what it might feel like when those lights rise in the sky. What if it's not everything that I dreamed it would be? Flynn Rider, he says, it will be.

And then she says, and what if it is? What do I do then? Well, that's the good part, I guess. You get to go find a new dream. And so for you, as you've had these experiences and you've had things that you've had to overcome, what's your takeaway from that?

And what would you tell people of like, you go through something hard and you still find light? Like, where do they go from there as they continue down a path of trying to find more love and trying to bring more love to the world? Gosh. There was a time when I stopped dreaming in my surgeries. And world got dark because I stopped dreaming.

And I think that if you can choose, dreaming is the way that the world can't be magical. You know what I mean? And I think, you know, it takes a lot to keep dreaming when you've been disappointed a lot. But the alternative, you want to live in a world that sucks. You know, you want to live in a world that's pessimistic or like, you want to live in a world where you believe in possibility.

And I want to live in a world, I want to wake up every single day believing in possibility and there's beauty to be experienced and that dreams are so important for like your soul's path and that they were placed in you so that you could develop into who you were meant to be for your soul, right? And so I think that, you know, it's a dream. If you get there, first of all, I think gratitude is a way to always see that dreams are being, you know, realized like, I think you have to be grateful or else it's never enough. Right? What if it is?

And, or what if it isn't? And then never, never stop. Like, think about the world if people didn't dream. It would be terrible. It would be so monotonous.

And like, there are so many cool things that you can do with visualization in your mind and just belief in the world present that to you. That's just how it works. Right? If I'm like, okay, look for everything that's orange right now and you're looking around the room, right? And I tell you to close your eyes and then tell me everything that's blue.

Can you do it? It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard. Right? Because you're focusing on the orange.

The first thing I thought was that that orange pumpkin there and I wouldn't have bring evidence of whatever you decide is true. So if you believe that the world is bad, your brain will find evidence to make that true. It's not even in like hippie-dippie land. That's just like how the biology works. And the brain is a natural problem solver.

And so if you can, you're not giving it really cool problems to solve, like how could I get to my dream? Then it creates problems and it just becomes negative by nature. And so, yeah, dreaming is that I want to live in a fairy tale world and I want to. I like what you talked about with the dream, which is you talked a little bit about like hope and possibilities, right? Because we're not talking about like, well, let me go live in a fantasy world where I can fly, right?

And I can teleport myself. That's not the kind of dreaming we're talking about. We're talking about dreaming like real things, like real impact of happiness, of fulfillment, of starting around fitness things that we've got going, right? And something where you're impacting people's lives, where they're connecting with you, right? Like that's a dream fulfilled that you started doing.

And then you've done that and now the dream changes a little bit. But you did that thing, now it changes a little bit. Okay, great. So like from what I was saying, now you get to have a new one, right? You get to come up with something new, which is still hopeful and joyful and that we can look forward to and work towards.

And again, the alternative is a submissive and bleak and darkness and who wants that? Sometimes allow ourselves to do it, right? Yeah, of course you have to give yourself space for that. Yeah, we sometimes get to that place, but it's really important to find ways and go back to things that can shake us out of that. And give us the reset we need so we can get back to dreaming.

And as you mentioned, like I'm a divorce attorney. And so we work with a lot of people coming out of divorce that their lives are hard and they're going through a lot of challenges and that is needed. Something like that for people to be able to have a place where they can go connect with other people, have a sense of belonging and find their new dreams and build a new life. There's a real space and a real need for something just like that. And not to be like a bashing session, right?

I feel like people get stuck there. I never joined a cancer community because I did not want to be in the like, I knew that my mindset and not attaching that myself worth my identity, that was so important. And so it's like, this freaking sucks and like, she would create something new and like you want to stay in this like deep dark crap or do you want to lose to create something beautiful out of it? But you have to choose that and it's sometimes really hard. So if someone out there is sitting in their tower right now and that mother Gothel voice is really loud, what do you want them to hear right now?

I think the only person that I am going to take feedback from about myself is me and God. And any voice that is negative is not coming from a source of peace and light. And that's coming from a pain within them. Like, I predict that, right? Like, no.

And you can just do not, you get to decide what your life is and who you are. Right? Like I was called like, you're incompetent, like the other day. And I started to like, you know, kind of, I'm like, no, I'm not incompetent. I'm freaking amazing.

And I really am. And then I show up that way. Right? And if you're not going to say that you're amazing, the satellite, you get to use that. And I'm learning that with my daughter too, you know, like we look in the mirror and we just listen to all of this negativity around us and of the world or whoever.

And we don't realize that we have a choice to put on a different filter of what if I just operated under the assumption that I am freaking amazing? What would I be able to find? What would my brain, what would my brain present to me? What would my soul present to me? Right?

So anytime that somebody is like in that, right, I always look at it like, okay, this is coming from a source that's not truth and light. So the opposite must be true. And that can be the path that I follow. So if somebody says I'm incompetent, I'm like, oh, I think that the universe is trying to tell me that I'm really smart and that I've been able to like create amazing things from nothing. Right?

And so anytime that you hear something negative, what if that is showing you what your other North Star is, right? And so it's like, thank you for that feedback because you're showing me what isn't true and that where my soul wants me to go next. And it's kind of like a roadmap. Isn't that cool? Like, thank you for showing me my roadmap.

And I can still, I love you and know, right? Because a lot of times you don't want to hate that person. And you feel like if you have to get away, you have to hate that person. And I think it's a lot harder and a lot stronger to say, I really don't hate that person. And that's why it's hard.

And I want to be the person that shows up so much love, because that's what I want the world to be. But it really does start with me. And if I have a next relationship, I want to be the one that isn't fucking crap on the father of my kids. And it's hard when they've hurt you so bad. Right?

But I want to be that pillar of like, love and hope. And you can choose that. It's a skill. It's a muscle. So start choosing that with one little thought a day.

Like if I were to go talk to God or my higher self or whatever, what would they say about me? And what would they tell me to do? And okay, I have this last little thing that I've been thinking about. So I call it circle self. So we have the past, which is over here.

And then we have present, which is what we're doing right now. And then we have future. Right? And so I always go to this version of me that's figured it out. And I go ask her for advice.

And I'll be like, Hey, how did you figure that out? And I try to imagine her life. Like, okay, if I were to operate under the assumption that if I can imagine something that it's actually true on some quantum level, right? What would she be doing? What would she be wearing?

What would she tell me to do right now? And she's rooting for me. She's like, you don't even get how amazing your life is. Right? So anytime that I get sad about my divorce, I think about me in the future that's like married and happy and like have this amazing husband that's doting on me, which can, and she's like, Oh, you don't even get it.

Right? And then I feel so much better. And I show up and I like have her routine and I, and my energy is totally different. So the circle self, go talk to your you in the future, because you think about the past and you can connect to that version of you. So now you just have to visualize and use that other side of your brain, the creative, creative, magical side of your brain, the proof of the cortex, and both find her and have her replace mother Gothel as your, as your leader.

So let's, let's go to a couple of fun segments. You're good for that? You down for it? Yeah. So we're gonna do this or that first.

So you will choose this or that. And if you've got a controversial pick, well, I will call you out. No, I'm just kidding. But we'll see, we'll see where you land on some of these. Okay.

Okay. Here we go. Pascal or Pascal, I guess really is what we say his name Pascal or Maximus. Gekko friend or the horse. I think Pascal.

Okay. I'm really alerted to horses. Oh, so you're like, yeah, no dice on the horses. I just feel like I'm like, he's like my little secret, like, Oh yeah. You know what I mean?

He's always there with you, he's got you. Right. Yeah. Seriously. It's like my little secret.

He's like, I can't see it, but I, he makes me feel so powerful and loves, you know? Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Frying pan or sword? Frying pan for sure.

I mean, the context of Tangled has to be right. Yeah. She uses that frying pan. Maximus uses the frying pan. Yeah.

But Ryre ends up using it. I can't use, I can't be like, I am her. You know what I mean? Like Mandy Moore, move aside, you know? Lanterns or fireworks.

Lanterns. Lanterns are magical. You love those floating lanterns. Because you can write on them and then you can like dream, you know what I mean? You're not the observer, you're the creator.

Yeah. Oh, I like that. Painting or baking? Well, I actually am obsessed with watercolor recently. Obsessed and I never knew that I would like it.

So painting. So painting has now become a love for you. I love that. Okay. I didn't think this would be an easy one, but now that I know a little more about you, I think it will be.

Barefoot or sneakers? Barefoot for sure. Yeah. For sure. I'm like, I'm always taking off my shoes and like walking on the, I cold plunge a lot.

And so I love like walking on the rocks and then thinking that the ions are like helping kill my body, you know? Into the grounding thing. Yeah. So yeah, definitely barefoot for you. I'm a sneakers guy.

I do not have my shoes off. I mean, I like a lot of shoes. Oh, I've got some AJ1s for sure. I think I've got four pair of AJ1s. Yeah.

Two golf shoes that are. Yeah. I also like dress shoes because I like to dress up. So yeah, girl, I got a lot of shoes on Fortnite. Literally when I walked in, I'm like, are you kidding me?

You're wearing that and I'm wearing this? Like rude. I'm like, I should have repulsed today. I look awesome. Like awkwardly like, who is this chick?

I'm ready for my performance. Sunrise or sunset? Sunset. Okay. Tell me why.

My family, we always sit on the back porch and we watch the sunset. And I just think there's whenever you're watching a sunset, you usually are with a bunch of people that you love. A sunrise is usually solo, which you can get a lot of, it's more of a spiritual thing for me, but I just want to be like my family eating ice cream or something. You know? It's actually a really great description because as you're saying it, I was seeing in the very much the same thing.

I see the sunrise generally when get up to run. So there's something cool about it being like, this is a sort of a new day. I've got a lot of opportunities today. I can really think about what my day is going to be like, put myself in the right mindset. Sunset is definitely with other people.

In the same way as I can alone versus when I'm with my wife or my wife and kids. Like it's so much better. When I'm with family, I'm with people and you're watching this beautiful sunset and just enjoying what nature's bringing in. Oh, there's something magical about that. Have you been to Lake Powell?

Yes. Sunset in Lake Powell. I was like 10. Yeah, you need to do that again. I know now I'm old.

34 years ago. So how long ago that was? Yeah. You look very young. Your skincare routine is so good.

Obviously not. Got a lot of wrinkles, but my wife was teasing me about Botox today. Girl, I am not using Botox. All right. Yeah, don't because once you do it, you'll love it.

Oh goodness. Shout out to Tracy at Rise. Hey, Tracy. Thank you, Tracy, for making me look beautiful. Mountains or beach.

Oh, I love the beach for vacation, but man, the mountains have healed me through cancer in a way that I'm like, there is magic there. So I think right now more mountains actually. One of my favorite things I've ever done is I've only been to Hawaii once. And my wife and I went and we were on Oahu. So obviously beautiful beaches.

And the same day that we went to the beach, we had rented a convertible. We drove up through the mountains on Oahu. I mean, it was like one of the perfect days that I've had in my life. It was just everything that you want to have from Hawaii, everything you want to have from the beauty of the beach to the beauty of the mountains and enjoying the slow pace. Because when we're driving around the mountain, we're going 15 miles an hour.

It's soaking it up. Life is good. Life is so good. Oh, yes. So mountains and beach is a hard one for me too, because both are really great.

Okay, here's an interesting one I wrote down. Instagram or TikTok. Instagram. Okay, TikTok, no way for you. TikTok is like the wild, wild west.

Oh girl, yeah, it is. Have you seen the comments on there? Like I'm terrified. They're like, oh, a cancer patient survivor. Let's destroy her.

I mean, in theory, I don't know. I'm too scared. They're like just, they're brutal up in there. I get a lot of comments on there. And so I haven't really experienced much of that, you know?

But TikTok is, there's a lot of stuff on TikTok. A lot of crazy stuff on there. Yeah, they're scary. Disneyland or Disney World? Land.

My ex's family is from Disney World, so maybe I just have a little bit of PTSD for my marriage, you know what I mean? But Disneyland is just amazing. I actually have a friend who's in club 33. You might need to have her on here. We need to have her on here.

She's so freaking cool. I have a vision board, right? Yeah, of course. And you know what's on my vision board? Club 33.

It is on there, like a little bit, or I have that on my vision board, because I have never been, and I really want to go. Club 33 is definitely on the vision board. Disneyland's wonderful. My wife and I just went there this last weekend. Yeah.

Hotter than Hades though. Really? 104. Really? October 2nd.

Oh, you were supposed to be going in the good phase. Wazy. It was so hot. Nobody could understand it. It was so weird.

It was so hot. There were certain rides they couldn't be running during the middle of the day because it was so hot. Because some of them, I was telling our producer Dawson this, there's the ride that we do, the fun little dancing cars. Well, on the car itself, when you go to get out, there's a metal strip that's there. It's actually metal metal, shiny metal.

When I went to get out and I touched it, it burned my hand. Oh my gosh. And I'm like, if that's me as an adult, I'm like, there's no way. They're going to have to shut this thing down because it's going to be so hot for kids. And as an attorney, you understand the liability of that.

Right? I'm sure that's why they did. And this was 10 o'clock in the morning. And so knowing it was going to get as hot as it was, I was not surprised when that shut down and credit coasters shut down. It's all outside metal from these rides.

It's just too hot. It's just not realistic to keep it cooled down for people getting in and out of it. So I'm like, man, we still loved it though. We did it just at a old trip, just my wife and I. So fun.

It was super fun. We definitely missed the kids. There was a good part of it. We were like, this ride would be so fun with the kids. I know.

It would make it so magical. Like, it's been a little mermaid and monsters. Yes. Oh, for our littlest one, she's six. I was like, oh, it would be so fun if she was here.

But it was still a great time. We had a great time. Okay. Last one of this or that, hot cocoa or lemonade? I think hot cocoa.

Like up by a fire. Especially if it's like fall or wintertime. Yeah. But if there is like a pomegranate lemonade at, or a pear one. Have you ever had a pear one at Pizzeria Le Monde?

No. Prickly pear lemonade. I feel like I need to now. It's life changing. And what a great name to prickly pear.

I know, right? It's so good. It's so good. It has like basil in it. And so maybe if it's that lemonade, like, maybe we'll do beach and the lemonade.

Okay. It's fair. It's fair. Okay. Here's a rapid fire.

You ready for this? Yes. Favorite Disney movie? Love Frozen 2. Oh, you do?

I love Frozen 2. So this might be a hot take. I actually think I like Frozen 2 more than Frozen 1. I do too. And I love Frozen 1.

It was, seriously, it was terrific. But something about Frozen 2, I just like the character development you saw, the songs were so good. I just loved it. Like show yourself? Oh, so good.

Yes. I was like, that changed my life. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, show yourself.

Like, yeah, I think that I've probably learned that. I'm like, wait a minute, this is me. Like I did that, you know? I love in that movie, the relationship as it evolved with Anna and Elsa. I also love the Anna and Kristoff relationship.

Yeah. Like, he is such a good example. I feel like I'm just being really supported. He didn't try to step in. He didn't try to take things away.

He didn't try to like do it for her. It was just support. Yeah. Which I think is a really, it's a good lesson some of us dudes can learn. Like, we don't have to do anything.

Like, we sometimes can just be supportive. You're just like, the one who doesn't speak like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, love Frozen 2.

So good. Favorite Disney song. My gosh. Favorite Disney song. Hang it.

Oh, you want to know what I really like? Wait, is Anastasia Disney? Oh, I should really know this. And for some reason, I'm not sure. On this journey to the past.

That one's so good. That's your favorite. Okay. Well, just because I like. Let's go.

I also really love, really, really, really love The Little Mermaid. The Little Mermaid one, too. Which song from Little Mermaid? Party of the Worlds. Yeah.

Party of the Worlds. Party of the Worlds. For unfortunate souls. Girl, I can go on. I love Miss Little Mermaid.

Now I love the scuttle one because my daughter freaking crushed it. Human stuff. She's so cute. But yeah. Far off that world, what would I give if I could live under these waters?

Right. So Jodie Benson was just here like a week and a half ago. She was at Penex. Why don't I know who Jodie Benson is? She played Ariel.

She was the voice of Ariel. What? Yeah. She was here. Then a few of the Disney princesses that were there.

I had the opportunity to use some, I had a press pass to do some interviews for a suicide prevention organization. Oh, cool. But unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to talk to her. I really wanted to. She is iconic.

That show is so amazing. She does such a wonderful performance in that movie. My goodness. Jodie Benson got it going on. Girls got it going on.

She crushed. I'm not doing a very good job at rapid fire. I'm talking. I know. I'm sorry.

No, it's my fault. It's totally my fault. Okay. Favorite Disney princess. Oh, I just love Rapunzel.

I just love Rapunzel. I feel like I'm obsessed with Rapunzel. She's so cute. Because you are her. I was like, it has to be.

I know. And her hair, I'm like. Has to be. I might have extensions right now, but before Kimo, my hair really was like, it's okay. I was bald.

Favorite Disney hero or heroine. Hercules. Hercules is a good one. Hercules is such an epic movie. Yeah.

Like all of that music. Are you kidding me? Yeah. The music's fantastic. Meg is a great character.

She's so cool. She crushes. She totally does. And she's like kind of like, she's kind of sexy. Wow, Disney.

The way she moves. She's like, all right, lover boy. You know, I need to like channel that when I'm like, I'm too, I need to not be as sweet and I need to be a little more like. A little more Meg? No.

Favorite ride at Disney. Any of the Disney parks. Space Mountain. I love Space Mountain. I could go on it over and over and over again.

Do you like it when they do like the kind of the Star Wars twist? Yes. Yeah. I think it's a good one when they do that. Yeah.

The U2, I wasn't as impressed with. You know what I mean? Totally fair. I love Space Mountain. I love going on it with my boys because they were like terrified.

Like, no, no, no. I don't like roller coasters. I won't go on the Incredicoaster, but this one's like the perfect amount of, you know, the little, the little hills and stuff like that. So it was so fun to go with my babies. Oh my gosh.

It just really went. My 10 year old. That's her favorite ride. It's the best. And she is such an adventure girl and I love it.

And I love that. That's her favorite ride. It's like, I, yeah, I just like want to go on that ride with her just so I can experience with her because she has so much joy when she goes on that ride. It's the cutest. Yes.

Because it's the best. Favorite, let's say favorite road in Utah Canyon, but I'm thinking more like favorite Utah hike or favorite Utah outdoor place to visit. Oh, I just went last. Well, I just love AF Canyon. There's this little place where you go off and I go cold plunging with my friends, even in the winter, it literally looks like a mermaid lagoon.

I was seeing that I'm like, this is a mermaid lagoon. And so I love AF Canyon so much because it's like right by my house. And so I can just go up in there and cold plunge, even right now in the summer. And it's straight up magical. And I go with all my friends and we cry together and we'll, you know, it's, it's magic.

I love it. What advice do I have for little girls? Okay, let's hear it. What advice do you have for little girls? So I feel like we're living in a world right now where everybody is trying to tell you, you know, what your body should look like.

And as somebody that has dealt with so much loss, what I am teaching my daughter now, it's like, I want you to look in the mirror and I want you to think about your body not being here. You wouldn't exist. And all we do is we sit here and we pick apart our bodies. And now that you've seen mommy go through cancer, if I wasn't here, do you care what my body looks like? Like if you could have me back, would you care if I was bald?

She's like, no, not now. I'm like, the body holds your beating heart and your spirit. And it's so magical. And you're so important just as you are. And don't listen all of that darkness that is going to try to get you down and dim your light.

Because if you're not really careful, then you'll listen to all of those lies. Like your body is working perfectly. It's magic. It's like converting CO2 and oxygen into CO2 without you consciously knowing it. It grew you without like, there's a wisdom and a consciousness that is in your body and you connect to that.

You don't care what it looks like and you'll just be like, so grateful to be alive and you'll realize how important and special you are. That's great advice. I love that. So what we like to do, we like to end every episode with three actionable takeaways, three things that you would suggest that people can do to put into effect in their lives the topic that we have. In this case, choosing compassion when it's hard or choosing kindness when it's hard or finding compassion in situations.

What are your three actionable takeaways? All right. They might be kind of weird, but that's okay. We're ready for it. I'm here for it.

Number one is I heard of Wim Hof breathing. Yes. That's what you do when you cold punch, right? Yeah. So he has like breath work and then he does cold punch.

So basically what you do is you do 30 deep inhales and you fill up your body and then you exhale and you can hold your breath for a few minutes and it gets rid of a lot of these nasty cells and it alkalines your body. It's really cool. And what I do is I like to do my visualizations there. And so I will visualize giving all of this hate that I have for the other person or whatever to something that's bigger than me. I think we all, whatever you believe in, if it's Jesus or the fig kahuna or whatever, and you just give it and you allow that entity to just see you and they see your pain and they are with you and they hold it with you and then they take care of the rest.

So you like literally visualize giving it to them and the breath holds. That's really, really helpful for me. So if you go on YouTube, you can do Wim Hof. I put in Binaryal Beats like meditation music. And again, remember that your nervous system does not know the difference between visualization and actually doing that.

And so it helps you get rid of that stuff that you're holding onto and become something new by letting your body experience the forgiveness and experience the love and experience the transformation so that you don't get stuck. And so I do that every day. Here it is and just see all of this pain and just see it. Pain just wants to be witnessed. And so if you can get something that knows you perfectly and perfectly to witness and connect to that, it's totally transformative and it's like, you'll feel completely different.

So cool. And I say my prayers there too. You're welcome. You might have some crazy cool mystical experiences. That's number one.

Number two is you have to look at yourself and see if your love is like kind of having an addictive quality. Like I think that love turned into this need for validation. I couldn't break it. And so I would make an honor commitments with myself. So I put this necklace on and I was like, okay, I'm not going to do certain actions to help me break the addiction to it, whether it be the chaos or the norm or whatever.

I'm going to make an honor a commitment with myself that I'm not going to do a certain action for 30 days and I'm going to put on this necklace. And every time I have an urge to reach out to my ex and try to just get into the same pattern, I'm just going to hold this and I'm going to take a breath and I'm going to say no, you protect yourself and you stay here. And so honoring commitments that you make with yourself with something in your external environment is so important. And going to your future self and asking her what, or him, what advice they have and writing it down and writing down what their routine would be and implementing that routine now. Like the you that has so much light that's so happy, what is she wearing?

What is she doing? What friends is she hanging out with? And take all of that information, implement now, and then your just become her with the routine. Love it. Kind of fun.

Yeah, I think those are terrific. We'll put a link to maybe a YouTube video for the Wim Hof into the show notes. We'll get something in there like that, give people something to take a look at. And yeah, just what a lovely conversation. Thank you so much for being vulnerable with us today and helping people see kind of you at the core of who you are, which is a really lovely person.

And taking a look at what a wonderful, you know, Disney movie, entangled and some great life lessons there. Really appreciate you and your kindness and your compassion. Thank you. As you leave this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt, and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey.

See you real soon.