Why did you and Dan decide to start this game store? When you've got a great career, you've got a great education, you've got a family, right? Why suddenly decide to start this game store? That one's coming out of my shell, but I started finding myself doing something I had never really done in my adult life, which was making friends outside of work. I mean, there's a lot of people who come to these stores looking for something, right?

They're looking for that connection, they're looking for a place to play. And that's how we kind of came up with this idea of just the third space, a community. Yes, we sell cards, we sell games and things like that, but our focus is having a community, a place that people can come and just play games. And they took us all to Disney World. And something might, yeah, I kind of fell in love with it and just started taking us pretty much every year after that.

When you're moving around a lot and your life is changing a lot, from like culture to culture, language to language, right? Being able to basically go home to Disney World. It was the constant in my life. I felt comfortable there, I felt like things wouldn't change, you know? Like my life is just so much change and stuff that Disney World kind of provided that home feel.

This is a big one I know, especially like in the business space. Like people use this word a lot, but I would say be curious, right? Get curious before you get convincing, right? Before you're trying to push someone, your views to somebody. I get curious into why their views are their views.

Welcome to Yes And Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility, growth and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome back everybody for our next episode of Yes And Land. In Disney's Robin Hood, Prince John taxes Nottingham into silence. Friar Tuck rings the church bell and nobody comes.

It takes a fox, a bear and a whole town of unlikely allies to bring everyone back together. Today's guest has been finding common ground his whole life. Andre was born in Bolivia, grew up moving from country to country with one constant every December. Today, he's a senior software architect and co-owner of Harside Games, a place where everyone has a seat at the table. Welcome to the program, Andre.

Thank you, Ryan. Super excited to have you here, my brother. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. So we're gonna do some fun talking about Robin Hood, which classic 1973 classic, who people from our generation watched on VHS over and over. Yeah, like a lot of Robin Hood.

Watch it rewind, watch it rewind, good times. So we're gonna have some fun talking about that. As we get started, what I want to do is go back to that young lad that you were. And let's talk about what your journey was, like being in Bolivia, then kind of moving around and what that was kind of like as you were growing up. Okay.

Yeah, it was different. So how long did you live in Bolivia? So in Bolivia, I was only there 18 months. Oh my goodness. I don't actually remember much of Bolivia itself, other than pictures and stories that my parents told me and things like that.

Okay, and then where'd you go from Bolivia? We then quickly moved over to Peru, Lima, Peru. And this is where I first kind of started remembering, having some like vague memories because we were there for four years. I was about five years old when we moved out of Lima, but we still had a lot of family and stuff in Peru. So we'd go back and visit and stuff like that.

So I have some memories of Peru. When you were Bolivia, then Peru, what was the language that was spoken in your home? Was it Spanish? Spanish, yeah, yeah. So you grew up speaking Spanish.

Okay. And then from Peru, where did you go? And then we moved to Ecuador. So Quito, Ecuador. Okay.

There for four years. And that's where like my memories really kind of started. Yeah, yeah. Because you were five to eight basically. Yeah, and those are some formative years.

Yes. For sure. And then after four years, then Ecuador moved to Mexico City. Mexico City for... Estudio Federal.

Yeah, actually in El Efe, yeah. El Efe. Now they changed it at the time. This was the 90s, right? So El Efe was much bigger, it was different.

Now it's like the... Anyway, they've changed things over the years, I've learned. But yeah, lived in Mexico City for five years. So those were also some formative years. Yeah.

That was like eight or nine till like 13, 14, 15. Exactly. Then moved to Germany, Frankfurt, Germany. Which had to be very different. I mean, you're used to moving at this point in time, but still.

Yeah, but it's different, different language. Different continents, always been Spanish for me. Yeah. Growing up, even though culturally, they're very different, right? Bolivia versus Ecuador, Mexico, it's all very different stuff.

But now we're going other part of the world, and different languages, stuff like that. I wasn't completely foreign to us, because my mom would speak German to me as like a little kid. And then once I started speaking, I only started speaking Spanish, so then she kind of gave up on the whole German thing. But like my grandparents are Swiss, and you know, we have, my parents are both Swiss. So like I knew about Germany and German, stuff like that.

So it wasn't too crazy. And that's where I was supposed to finish off high school. But then a year and a half later, my dad, you know, gets a job in Moscow, Russia. And- No way. Yeah, so like halfway through my like, freshman to sophomore year, we moved to Russia.

And then you lived in Russia for how long? And then there, I was supposed to finish off high school there. Anyway, fun story, a year and a half later, we moved to Tucson, Arizona. Oh my goodness. And that's where I actually finished high school.

Okay. I was in Arizona. My goodness, man, you had some serious moving around. Yeah. Okay, so your parents are Swiss.

Yes. And what I didn't say is what your last name is, but it's Krodolfer? Yes, Krodolfer, yep. And that is, tell everybody what that is, what that means. So it's a Swiss name, there is a Paltown, that's what it's called, Krodolfer.

And we are those that, Krodolfers. Which is so cool, I actually think that's rad. I guess that's really fun. So you, well, you're boo in all these countries, you speak Spanish, then you gotta go learn some German. Did you get pretty fluent in German?

I did not, no. Okay. I went to American schools, international schools, really. But they're basically funded by like the American embassy. Okay, so when you were in these other countries before speaking Spanish, were you learning English too?

I was, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're at least getting some exposure to English, though it wasn't what you were speaking. Yes, and I was only through school though. Okay, so still, like maybe not as much English that you were speaking, so then suddenly you moved to Tucson, was that a pretty big adjustment for language? It was, yes, that was actually the move I feared the most.

Was moving to the United States. Even though in reality, like Tucson's not exactly a scary place, but like totally different. And then you're gonna have to start speaking English there because Americans aren't overly accommodating when somebody else speaks a different language. By that time I was speaking pretty fluently because I'd already been 14 years in the American school system, I guess. I don't wanna say American, like international school system, right?

So I was pretty fluent already by then. But also really hard too, I would imagine because you're doing it in the middle of your high school years. Yeah. Which in reality is really tough. We learn a lot about impact of moving schools and stuff, doing divorces, because that will sometimes shape and effect what courts wanna do with custody or who they're gonna have move out on their first day in a marital home or if somebody does move.

And like high school, having to move in the middle of high school is like the hardest move for kids to come across the board. Junior high is really tough, you did both. Elementary school way easier, right? Obviously before then even easier. High school though can really have a really big impact and be really hard.

So was it pretty tough then? I didn't know any different, I don't know. You just moved a lot. It was just the thing we did. Yeah.

Right? What was it like trying to build friends and stuff when you moved to this, honestly a new country you never lived in before? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it wasn't too difficult only because attending international schools, a lot of the people there are also experiencing the same thing you are, right? They're all ex-pat families and stuff that are also moving around a lot, right?

So a lot of people in the school, and they're not very big schools, like my graduating class in Russia would have been like 27 people. Right. They're not huge schools that we were going to late 90s, early 2000s. And a lot of you are just in the same spot. So it wasn't too bad?

No, it wasn't too crazy. With those, I'm assuming the moves were as a result of work, work-related changes? Yes, yeah. Was it your dad or your mom? It was my dad.

So your dad, and what was his profession? He worked as a director of temporal affairs for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So it was just like wherever they needed him to go? That's right, they would just move him. They would just move him.

And that's, did he know that that's what the job meant? Was like, you just move wherever they tell you to go? And your mom was like, let's do it. Yeah, she was always very supportive. Because they have to be pretty aligned.

Like you've got to have the family be pretty aligned. Did you find that that helped your family be closer together because going through moves you guys would have to like? Yeah, oh, absolutely, right? Because that was like our main common denominator was us, family, siblings, parents and stuff, right? So we moved to a whole new place and it was just us.

So it did kind of help us create a pretty strong bond between all of us. We're all still very friendly and communicate almost daily at this point. Where do your parents live now? Here in North Salt Lake. So they're here?

Yeah. So you're here, they're here, where are your siblings at? They're all over the place. Okay. How many siblings do you have?

I have three older sisters. Three older sisters. Okay. Okay. So you're the lone boy in the house.

I was, yeah, yeah. And there's quite a gap between them and me. I came five years after the youngest. Okay. So they babysat you a lot?

They did. Yeah. Basically, you had four moms. Did they ever get paid for it? I don't think so, probably not.

Because like we're in that zone too, like we've got, our youngest is six, the oldest is 17. Trying to decide like, okay, is it just the job of the siblings to watch if we're going to go out? Or do we actually have to like give them a little bit? And we're still, we haven't yet. So we're still kind of in that zone, like, well, I don't know.

Like, maybe. My 17 year old doesn't really want to. My 13 year old definitely would. He just is the kind, and he's got three younger sisters. But so far he's just done it when we've asked him to spend a basket about it.

I feel like that's just kind of built in. Yeah. If you're the oldest, you gotta watch the world. You have to, right? You just gotta learn that responsibility.

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes, you know, as parents, we kind of worry about like, okay, well, what's going to happen if, or are they going to, you know, be mean to their siblings if they're the ones watching? At the same time, like, man, when we were growing up. Yeah. That happened.

That's right. That's what happens. Like, you get picked on, right? Like, it just is what it is. You know, I remember my, I remember a friend in high school, like her older, two older brothers, the one that was much older, he would just pick on her and her siblings relentlessly when he was the one watching.

Like, he would tie them up to like the tree house, like they were prisoners and stuff. Like, legit, they didn't want to and wanted to get away. And he would do that. And I'm like, yeah, I think our kids have it just fine. Right.

Like, right. Yeah. When you hear those stories, like, yeah, that's right. My kids call me in the phone like, oh, they play with this game. Be like, oh, that's so hard.

Like, all right. At least you're not getting tied up to a tree house, right? Yeah, for real. You're going to be there for the rest of the night, right? They're never going to let you go.

So it's going to be fine. That's right. Yeah, for me, I'm thinking about it, like the times where my sisters had to watch me. I was the troublemaker. Ah, yeah, you were.

They were like annoyed by me because I was just the annoying little brother. Totally fair. So fast forward, and you end up going to college. What did you decide to study in college? Computer science.

OK, so you studied computer science. Did you love computers? I did, yeah. OK. Yeah, pretty early on.

My dad was really into like tech gadgets and stuff like that. We had a computer pretty early on at home and stuff. And I loved just kind of poking around and doing stuff and editing stuff. And I got a programming book pretty early on, like in middle school. That I would just read.

I had like no idea what I was reading. But I was still reading it because I was like, this is some great computer science. Programming book. Holy moly. All right, so yeah, I just got into it.

You're out there reading programming books, and I'm there watching movies, right? Like, OK, you're smart. Like, this is good stuff. So do you do computer science degree? Is that what it was?

Yeah, that's where I started. I switched to information technology. OK. OK. Pretty early on.

And then same post-poc degree. You go get a job somewhere, I assume, right? Where did you end up going? So right after I graduated, I was here on a student visa. OK.

And I got married to my wife. And I'm really lazy. And I didn't work on my green card or my residency paperwork. Yeah. Any stuff.

Because I was on a student visa. I'm fine. I graduate. I have an internship for the LDS Church, a software engineer. Then it comes up that my student visa is expiring.

And I don't have a way to stay here in the country. So I quickly apply to the University of Utah to continue to be a student. Oh, for a graduate degree. Because I was graduating. And so the student visa would expire.

So I go and apply for a master's program at the University of Utah. So I can stay in the country, of course. And while I'm doing that, I'm obviously applying to get a green card and doing all that stuff. What's your home country? Switzerland.

So you would have had to go back to Switzerland. Probably. Holy Zolino. Yeah. And had you ever lived there?

No. We visited a time. I never actually. I never actually. Isn't that wild?

Yeah. So you get to go visit a time? No, not anymore. Not anymore. You did when you were younger.

Yeah. My parents, all the time. But you haven't been back in a little while? I took my wife last year. Hey.

How are you, dog? That was the first time after getting married for 18 years, I finally took her to Switzerland. Bap. For reals. Did she love it?

She did. It was amazing. What was her favorite part? I think the mountains. I know we have great mountains here.

But the ones in Switzerland, that's next level. I mean, yeah. Utah's got great mountains, right? In the United States, it's fantastic. But like the Swiss Alps?

Yeah, the Alps. Something else. I mean, it's kind of iconic, right? Like, now is the Matterhorn, is that in Switzerland? That's in Switzerland, yes.

Yeah, right? Like that is. That's iconic now in Disneyland. Because it is such a cool mountain. And it's in Switzerland.

See, there you go. I love going to Matterhorn there in Disneyland and seeing all the Swiss flags, all the Canton flags, I'm sure. It's cool. Yeah, it's like that. It's my...

My paisanos. My paisanos. Mi patria. Yeah, exactly. So, when did a love for games come up for you?

Was that something where it was when you were younger, teenage years, in your 20s? As far as I can remember, again, my dad being very into gadgets and technology and stuff, we had the first Nintendo pretty early on. I was just a couple years old when we got the very first, like, the NES. The original Nintendo. What was your game?

What was your go-to game? Mario and Dotcom. Dotcom, yeah. Yeah, like the gun and everything. Oh, yeah.

That's a classic. That's right. Did you ever play, like, Paperboy? Yes. Marble Madness?

Yes. I didn't have Marble. I'm aware of that one, but I didn't. Bubble Bobble? Bubble Bobble.

I got some cool artwork of Bubble Bobble in my office. Yeah, that game goes back. My sisters and I would play that. We would play Bubble Bobble so much. Yeah.

I love that. I love those little dragons. Anyway, but yeah, it started with video games mostly. And then did you ever play, like, board games? When did you start evolving into, like, more of the card games and other?

Yeah, I kind of dabbled with it a little bit in middle school. I bought some Magic cards, and I didn't really have anybody to play with, though. And then Warhammer. Got little figurines, painted them, kind of tried to figure out the rules. But you got, like, textbook worth of stuff to figure out the rules.

And I didn't have anyone to play with again. And I, like, I just didn't have anybody. So this is me. I'm just buying these toys, which is always very fascinating to buy in. Although I spend most of my time just playing video games, even though the board game, I had to play the Warhammer, the cards were always very fascinating to me.

I didn't really have the community or the way to kind of get into it. As you, in your teenage years, what was your go-to video game? What did you play a lot? I was always, whatever the latest Nintendo was, Mario, right? Mario 64 or Zelda.

You love Zelda, huh? Mario and Zelda is my jam. See, I never loved Zelda. Really? I'm too linear.

Like, I want to have... It's like the open world exploration. I can't do it. Like, I need to have, I start here and I go there. It's why a good, good friend of mine loves D&D.

And he's convinced that I'll love it, because I do love imagination and creativity. I love being a nerd. I do. But like, in it, when I've tried, it's not. And there's no like, OK, I did this and I win now.

Yeah, correct. You know? And so it's never like captured my heart. But I also can appreciate why it can be really fun and great to be with it. So, OK, so we're going to get to more of that.

Let's loop in Robin Hood. Yes. OK? So take us to the beginning. Now, it's 1973, right?

That's when Robin Hood came out. So, you know, no spoilers here, right? If you haven't seen it yet, that's just too bad, right? It's been a long time. But if anybody hasn't seen it, take us kind of the overarching story of Disney's version of Robin Hood.

The Robin Hood story, yes. So give us the overarching story. What's kind of going on? Well, let's see. You have, it takes place in Nottingham, right?

And then if I remember correctly, I just recently watched it, except for the last little bit. But you have Prince John, who's taking over. Yeah. For who the rightful king was. Yeah, because King Richard's out doing...

Fighting wars. He's doing the Crusades. That's... He's in the Crusades, right? So he's not there.

Everybody loves him. That's right. And it's his brother who not everybody loves. Who takes over and he's not great. He is not.

He is not. Right. Likes to suck his thumb. Yes, definitely. And he's known for taking a lot of money from all of the residents of Nottingham.

He's been taxed them all. You got the tax collector, right? Yeah. You have the sheriff of Nottingham who's a tax collector. That's right.

And nobody was really happy with the way he was running things. Yeah. And there's a lot of poverty in Nottingham. And Robin Hood steps up and sees this and tries to figure out clever, different ways of taking money from Prince John and giving it back to the people of Nottingham. Who he believed it was rightfully there.

Yeah. He and his buddy, little John, right? Who, of course, is not so little. Yeah. In Disney's version, a giant bear.

He's humongous, right? And Robin Hood's a fox, I believe, right? He's a fox. So that's kind of the basis for the story we have where Robin Hood's going to kind of be an outlaw, so to speak, right? And doesn't really see himself as a good guy or a hero at all between the movie.

Yes. He's like, this is the right thing to do. I'm just doing it. That's right. And he's having fun doing it.

He's having a ton of fun. He's having a blast. Because he's going to dress up in disguises, right? And he's just going to trick Prince John and Prince John's sidekick, which is the snake. I don't remember the snake's name.

Sir Hiss. Well, I guess that would make sense. Sir Hiss. Of course, that's what it is. Of course, that's what it is.

And Sir Hiss just... I actually feel bad for Sir Hiss during it. Oh, definitely. Right? Like, he's there.

He's trying to be a good sidekick to Prince John. Trying to help. Prince John's smacking him on the head and sitting on him and throwing him out. Like, I kind of feel bad for Sir Hiss. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He tries to help him and, you know, it does quite work out. So then Robin Hood has grown up with and been around, but not really had the ability, or at least he didn't think the ability to connect fully with Maid Mary. That's right. So like, he's... They're from two different worlds.

Yes, they are. She's inside the castle grounds, right? And he's, of course, an outlaw. So we have classic, you know, classic story of people from different worlds. And so, you know, one of the things that we're talking about today is this idea of bringing people together and also kind of peacemakers.

So set the stage for us on like, what you're kind of seeing as the arc of this story with Robin Hood and what you're seeing him play the role in as the story develops. Was he able to bring people together and who is he bringing together? Yeah, so I think it becomes very obvious there when they're all in prison. And we were just talking about that, right? How during the, or right after the archery competition that Prince John puts on, Robin Hood is found and he's an outlaw and they find out that all the people on the other hand were helping him, so he puts them all in jail.

I think they do a good job kind of showing off just Robin Hood bringing everybody together, right? Helping him and his causes, even though they didn't really have the means or anything like that to do it. And I love seeing that part of the story. Everybody kind of coming together and going to jail for him, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah. And he's, and I think when we look at why they do that, you know, he's beloved. Like the people, the common people love him. And in part again, he's an outlaw because I mean, he's stealing from the Prince. So he is stealing.

At the same time, like in railway, what's happening is the people are being taken advantage of and he sees that need. And then he's willing to put himself at risk to help them. And I think that's part of what it is, right? He's endeared the people to him because of what he was willing to do for them to try to right a wrong that was happening. Uh, because Prince John was over taxing the people, you know?

And he also kind of provided a form of help. Yes. When they would see it. That's totally it was because yeah, they're still in these tough situations, right? And yet they have hope that like, Hey, there is somebody that cares about us.

There is, you know, a pathway out, right? There is good in the world. It's not just evil Prince John all the time. So, and one of the things too, we've made reference to this, but one of the quotes that I like is when Robin Hood and Friar Tuck are talking and, um, he's talking about made Marion, right? And then he would love to, but he doesn't think it's possible.

And Robin Hood says, I'm an outlaw. That's what there's no life for. That's no life for a lovely lady. Always on the run. What kind of future is that?

And Friar Tuck says, Oh, for heaven's sake, son, you're no outlaw. Why someday you'll be called a great hero. And so, you know, sometimes it takes. He's himself outlaw. Yeah, I'm doing this thing because I believe in it, but doesn't really understand maybe at that time, the actual impact of what he's having and why the people would love him for what he's doing and Friar Tuck's like, no, no, no, like people do love you.

And in this, you are actually being a hero to these people. Yeah, correct. And I feel like it's so great that Friar Tuck kind of took on that responsibility to kind of help them see that is from his perspective, from Robin Hood's perspective, he's just being chased by all the guards constantly, right? And having arrows shot at him all the time and stuff, right? So it's cool to sometimes have someone, you know, in your life kind of tell you, Hey, let me tell you what you're actually doing.

Right. So for sure. So here's a quote I wrote down from Brene Brown in her book, Braving the Wilderness, and I want to get your take on it. So I'm going to read it and to see what you think. All right.

True belonging is not passive. It's not the belonging that comes with just joining a group. It's not fitting in or pretending or selling out because it's safe. And there was a go back to the very beginning. True belonging is not passive.

So how does that fit in with this idea of belonging and what Robin Hood is doing and what we can do to try to belong? Yeah, no. Um, I mean, he, he definitely didn't, you know, sit back on the sidelines and just watch things happen. He, he, he stepped up. Right.

And he was very, uh, involved in trying to kind of help the people and stuff like that, even though he wasn't like necessarily the one that was affected by it. Sure. Right. But he saw it happen. He was, he was very involved and, um, he got other people to, to kind of not be passive either, right.

And that's part of, you know, being active is just bringing those people together too. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, um, like you said, then what starts to happen is when somebody does that and he's putting himself out there, he's sticking his neck out in quite literally, right after his life on the line, after the, the, um, archery event. Right.

Because when they discover him, they're going to chop his head off. Yeah. Correct. Which I was always funny. He has the sword.

Prince John has the sword. He's in disguise. He uses the sword to cut the disguise off. When at the end of the day, the goal was just to, you know, cut his head off. Yeah.

You had the opportunity. It could have done it right there. Could have somebody else do his dirty work for him though, right? He can't do that. Prince John was not about, well, PJ, PJ wasn't about to do that.

Right. Uh, I always thought that was really funny about that scene. So, so with that, so Robin Hood's doing this and the people are seeing what he's doing, right, to win the hand of Maid Marion, but also obviously to help them and to support them because they're being taken advantage of. And it starts to inspire other people to also take action because then starts to happen is, and we kind of made reference to it, but with Friar Tuck, right? Like Friar Tuck, I think is a good example of he's seeing what Robin Hood's doing and he's, he's, he's a man of God, right?

So, uh, he's already going to be, you know, generally speaking, pretty, pretty good nature, but he gets kind of inspired because he sees the hope and, and he's there in the church. Um, and, um, Prince John had just tripled the taxes, right? Like, okay, we're, you know, if they're not paying enough as it is, now they're going to go triple them because he's trying to like pull Robin Hood out. Like he's trying to get to Robin Hood. Um, and so it's raining, um, it's soaked and no one's in the church.

The pews are empty because a lot of people have been arrested. And, um, Sexton is there. He's a little mouse, a little sidekick mouse. Uh, and he says, uh, uh, Friar Tuck, I don't think anyone is coming. And Friar Tuck says, you're right, Sexton, but maybe the sound of this church bell will bring those poor people some comfort.

We must do what we can to keep their hopes alive. Yeah, that's great. Right. Which I think is just really sweet. And what's your, what's your take on that for Friar Tuck and what he was motivated to do and what the impact was of that?

Well, yeah, cause he, he, he saw his role, right in the community and how he could help, right. And he didn't shy away from that. I thought that was, that's, that's pretty great. Uh, also with Friar Tuck, uh, earlier on in the movie when he goes and helps the, the blacksmith, I think it is right. He's like, Hey, you know, we found this, the church, you know, you need some.

Yeah. Sear some, right? So he's just trying to find a little way he can make it. Bringing the bell or bringing a little bit of money. Right.

And, and I think it's really, it's emblematic of the ways that we can find little ways to help other people and bring a little bit of hope. Cause sometimes it's tough, right? Sometimes, um, they don't have to be great gestures. That's right. We don't have to, uh, I guess it comparing or contrasting, I suppose, with, with Robin Hood, we don't have to take every bag of gold from Prince John that he has in his room.

It doesn't have to be that big grand gesture. It can, in all of those actions can help people to have a little bit greater sense of belonging, which is kind of what we're talking about, right? Just letting them know that you're there. Yeah. Right.

Even though Friar Tuck wasn't necessarily doing anything, but ringing the bell is just letting everybody know I am, I'm here. And, and you know, what, what it leads me to is, um, a quote that I actually have come back to quite frequently from Dr. Vivek Murthy, um, who was the U S surgeon general. I just, I just, I love this study that was done. It was a study on, um, the epidemic of loneliness and isolation.

Um, and one of the things he said in there, one of the findings they had, and they said, our epidemic of loneliness and isolation has been an under appreciated public health crisis that has harmed individual and societal health. Our relationships are a source of healing and wellbeing hiding in plain sight, one that can help us live healthier, more fulfilled and more productive lives. That's a cool quote. Like, doesn't that just put it so well? Because loneliness is a real thing.

Um, and, and loneliness has always existed and, you know, it's really, it's always easy for us to say like our time's the worst, our time's probably not the worst, uh, but, but what I think we do highlight is that today, because technology can suck us away from connection with other people that I think people are experiencing loneliness in part because it's really easy just to escape into your phone, escape a technology, not put yourself out there. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like rate and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you. We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality.

And so what it takes me to is I want to talk about your, your game store. Okay. Because to me, like it's, it's the epitome of what that's talking about. Oh yeah. And so tell me, tell me for you, why did, why did you and Dan decide to start this, this game store when you're, you're a senior, senior software architect, right?

And you've got a great career, you've got a great education, you've got a family. Right. Why suddenly decide to start this game store? Yeah. Um, so this started about just a little over three years ago.

Um, when my sons and I, we got into a little game called Disney Lurkana. Uh, they made the announcement two or three D 23s ago that there's a trading card game coming out with Disney characters. And like I mentioned earlier, I've kind of always been into like that more, like the nerdier side of things, right? The Warhammer, the magic and stuff like that. And I've been a Disney fan my entire life pretty much.

So I saw a lot of my interest kind of coming together and something I could do with my kids and stuff like that. So we got, uh, when it first came out, we bought the cards and we were playing at home, just kitchen table and whatever, but it was kind of hard to get. Cards, they had under printed the first set and we were just trying to get our hands as many. And they are vans and you would get packs for participating. So we started visiting a lot of the game source in the area, me and my two boys, uh, two of my boys and kind of started talking to other people in the space.

We also loved Disney, loved card games. And I started kind of, um, I wasn't coming out of my shell, but I started finding myself doing something I had never really done in my adult life, which was making friends outside of work. Yeah. Right. And that was just fascinating to me.

Like I had such a different persona now in playing card games in the Disney world with, with, in, in, in all these, um, card shops and game stores. And it helped me so much. And I was working at home at the time too. Right. So like it helped me so much.

And I get out of my little bubble and get out there. I found myself doing things like approaching other people for the first time and talking to them and, and, and being the instigator of conversations and stuff like that that I didn't really do before. Right. I was just kind of hid behind my computer working as a self-training or stuff like that, so it helped me. And like so many different nights.

I was like, this is, this is amazing. Right. Uh, and over about like a year, a year and a half of visiting all the game stores in, in, in Utah and, and traveling because of Lorkana, I started realizing there's a lot of things we could do better. Right. And realizing that there's a need, there's a lot of people who come to these stores looking for something, right.

Uh, they're looking for that connection and they're looking for a place to play. They don't necessarily have that at home or anything like that. And that's when I approached, uh, Dan Langford, um, a business partner, someone I've known for 16 years now. Uh, and I know he kind of has like pension for the nerdy stuff, just like I do. And so I approached him and was like, Hey, what do you think of this idea?

Um, let's start a game store and let's, let's just try to do a little bit better. Right. And try to focus on what's important. And that's how we kind of came up with this idea of just the, the, the third space, a community. Yes, we sell cards, we sell games and things like that, but our focus is having a community, a place that people can come and just play games.

Which I mean, I think is, um, such a needed thing because like you're saying, it's like a place that's not at work or you can actually connect with people and make friends. Yeah. Similar interests. Cause at work, you're not always going to find people who have the same. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's not that it's bad to make friends at work. It's that's great. Right. You want to like the people you work with.

I love the people I work with, right? A hundred percent. Our producer, one of the best guys around. Like I love working with this guy. Um, and the yes and right.

And there's also like a need for it, like outside of just working home. As you're talking about it, I kept coming back to like my own personal life. Like I used to do some community theater. Oh, very cool. And it was so that way.

It was like, we had this shared experience. We had this shared love and passion for the theater and for performing. And it was building bonds and relationships and friendships in a way that is just totally unique from something you would find at work or at home. And was just like something that's really bad. That's why I'm a big supporter of community theater.

Yeah. I think there's so much value in community theater for bringing people together, for the performers, for them connecting with the audience, right? Um, and, um, it's, it's for that same reason that as I've started to get more exposure to this, this game world, it's, it's exactly all of the things that I loved about community theater. And I'm just, when I, when I visited your shop, it's exactly the way that I felt. I saw it, I saw it take place.

I saw people coming in and recognizing people and talking and connecting and people light up. I could, I saw, I saw visually people light up when they suddenly walked in. Could have this community people that they felt like they belonged, which is something that was really special. It was really cool. And, um, again, it's just something that I think is so needed.

You know, when you talk about, you made reference briefly to your love of Disney. Yes. So I want to go back to that and then we'll come and then we'll jump forward again. Um, because one of the things that I didn't ask you about that I want to go back to and ask you about was growing up. Yeah.

What your connection to Disney was and why that was something that became special for you, because we talked about that before. So tell our audience about, about what you would do with Disney. I think it was Disney World specifically. Specifically Disney World. So, went to Disney World and I don't know what the impetus was.

I should probably ask him, but I was just like two months old, right? This is, uh, December of 1985 and they, they took us all to Disney World and something might, might kind of just like fell in love with it and just started taking us pretty much every year after that. So all the memories I have, I mean, from the very beginning, Disney World's involved somewhere, right? We'd go, uh, and what was nice about that is when, when you're moving around a lot and your life is changing a lot from like culture to culture, language to language, right? Uh, being able to basically go home to Disney World, there was, it was the constant in my life and I just, I felt comfortable there.

I felt, um, like things wouldn't change, you know, like my, my life was just so, so much change and stuff that, uh, Disney World kind of provided that, that home feeling of like, no, this, this is home. Yeah. This is where you come back to. Yeah. You know, every year.

Are there any, are there any specific memories you have, uh, when you were there with your family and things you had that you really loved? Um, I don't know what you do. There wasn't something that was specific. I just thought. Yeah.

Um, the, the, the Monterey. Well, I remember staying at the temporary resort and taking the Monroe to the Magic Kingdom. Uh, just the smell of the Monterey. Um, and like the turkey leg. I remember our whole family, we'd offer one turkey leg, right?

Cause they're so big. You know, it'd be the whole family with it and, and just, it's just those, those little things, you know. When you were growing up, what was your favorite park? Which one did it was always Magic Kingdom or did you guys go to the park? Yeah, as it came, obviously Magic Kingdom.

And then Hollywood Studios took over pretty good. And at the time MGM subdues. Yeah. Yeah. Was it, was that a first and then they eventually made a change.

And initially, uh, it was relatively small. They didn't think, uh, that it was going to be a whole day experience. They thought people would just want to pop in there for a half a day. And they quickly realized like, oh no, no, there's more of a demand here. People want to be here a whole lot more often.

Um, I didn't go to, to MGM, uh, MGM studios. Um, I only went once it was Hollywood Studios, many, many years later. In fact, the first time I went to Disney World was I think three years ago. So I didn't experience that at the time. Didn't they have some kind of, of movie ride or something?

The great movie ride. Yeah. What was that like? Yeah, it was, it was pretty fun. Um, it was like a combination of a, a dark ride, but you had actors in the ride that were like interacting with you and stuff.

Right. So you got on this train, you're going through, you're seeing a lot of scenes from, from movies, big movies at the time. And then you have like this mafia guys come in and they take your train hostage and like they're driving you off. And it's just, it was really cool to kind of see them blend, like just like a typical dark ride, but then with all the acting and theatrics, you know, Disney and put it all together in one big show. Yeah.

It was, it was just really cool. I loved it. That was a lot of fun. Uh, that would have been great to go on. Uh, yeah, I'm sad that I missed that experience getting to go there.

It's cool. Like think about it now though. Yeah. I don't know how well it would hold up nowadays, but it was fun. Sure.

It'll also be hard, right? Having actors have to be a part of the ride all day, every single day. It takes a lot, right? It takes a lot to have to do that with as many people as you want to push through a line and push through because Disney wants to have good experiences and they want to have great experiences. They also have to push a lot of people through.

Right. Like a pretty high volume. Yeah. Like I don't know what the stats are, but I've heard them at times, but like how many turkey legs they go through a day is insane, right? It's insane.

But I'm partial to a Disney churro, which they don't have much of. Churros at Disney World. What's the deal with that? Or can you explain that to me? What is going on?

We need to ask Bob Weiss about that. What, Bob, what is going on? The churros are amazing. That's the one thing I do miss when we go to Disney World is like, uh, the churros just aren't there. No.

And all the different toppings, all the different sauces you can dip it in. They're just not there. Yeah. And I, I mean, every time we go, I just, I could have 10 churros a day, to be honest. Like they're so good.

Every time we go, I always try to find the special churro because those always, they'll always be that one stand, you know, somewhere tucked away in the corner. That's like the, the themed churro of whatever it is. You know, that's, you know, it's so good. Yeah. When you go into Disney California Adventure, a lot of times they'll have that right there in Carthay circle.

Yes. The one right as you turn. We're in. Yeah. One right.

In turn. Like, um, over on Pixar Pier. Yep. Right. Um, I haven't always loved those ones over there.

Sometimes they'll do some weird stuff. They'll insert some flavor into it. I'm like, nah, it doesn't really hit for me. Yeah. I'm like, well, where's the original one?

And I go find it. But I still like trying it. Like I almost have to try it, you know? 100%. Yeah.

Hey, if Disney's, if Disney's putting it out, it's probably going to be okay. It's got to be something. Right. I got, they got a lot of trust from me. Right.

I will put myself out there with Disney stuff. Definitely. So, so you kind of have this, this Disney, um, connection. Just, uh, you go and you have belonging there and this kind of carries through like as Disney where Connick comes out and you have this connection with Disney and Disney characters. And now that you guys have this, this game shop that you've got going, what's that experience been like for you of having this, this game shop where people are connecting and they are coming?

What's that emotional experience like for you? Oh, it's, it's, it's been amazing. Um, just to share kind of a story along those lines, we've not even been open a whole year yet, right? We're seven months, eight months in. Uh, a couple of months ago, um, kind of go, going with the whole theme of like bringing people together and providing a place for people, we have this one, um, magic player, uh, and she's really into magic, but she's also really into girly stuff and usually magic, the gathering and girly stuff don't really quite, you know, fit together.

And she's got a lot of friends across the Valley and, um, she did a, like magic girly night, our store and all of these women would come together and they would bedazzle their deck boxes and their little top loaders and they would play magic together and stuff. And it was just for them. And a couple of them came up to us after just saying how they'll never be able to do this at any other game store and how they felt so safe and they felt like cared for and a community for them to kind of just do this that normally you wouldn't find in the magic community doing that. And that was to me, probably the greatest thing that they could have said that we provided a place for them to be able to be themselves, right? To find common ground among all the, the, the girlies here and you try to get together and just do what they wanted to do with magic, you know, and provide a safe space for them and a community for them to do that.

And that to me is like, we've achieved it. You know what I mean? Like even if it's not financially successful or anything like that, but if we can give people like this, that kind of place, I'm just like, I'm elated. It's so great. It's, um, and then just taking me right back to one of the really famous things that Simon Sinek said, which is people don't buy what you do.

They buy why you do it. And I feel like that's what you and Dan have created is people connect with the reason that you're doing it. Like, yeah, you, you gotta sell cards. Like, yes, that's part of what it does to keep the doors open. But the purpose is to have this belonging.

The purpose is to build this community, to give people a place, right? And, and clearly people are connecting with that and that's why they keep coming back, right? So one of the things I want to ask you about, so like you, you guys will, you'll have these games and people are playing, they're playing them against each other, right? Like if it's a tournament people, there's winners and there's losers, right? Yep.

And so like in my world, in the divorce world, like there are certainly winners and losers and, uh, that, that, that there's a lot of discord that happens, right? A lot of disharmony. What, what is it about the games that you guys do or the tournaments that you run? That allow for competition, but also allow for the coming together and still that sense of belonging with people who respect each other and care for each other and know each other and want to do it together. Yeah.

That's a really good question. Um, I think a lot of it is just being able to do the thing you love, right? So there is competition and sometimes it is a bummer to lose out and not get the prize that you were hoping for, but at the end of the day, you got to do the thing that you loved, right? Which was play Lurkana, play Magic or whatever it is that you're doing, but it's, it's a thing you love, you know? Um, and I think that's what gets people, you know, coming back because we're just providing a place for you to do the thing that you love to do.

And eventually too, like I said, like I've made some of the best friends of my life playing, uh, Disney Lurkana, you know, even though they're, oftentimes they're my competitors in the tournament. You still end up just loving that you're doing this with them, the thing you love with people that you love. And it's just, it's, it's really cool. It's a, it's a very cool, different thing to be a part of. Yeah.

For lack of a better word, right? It's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah. Um, well, in relation to that thing, um, one of the things that we could call that thing would even maybe be a movement, dare I say, and here's why I say that.

I found a quote, uh, from, uh, Derek Siebers. Um, and it was a Ted talk that he gave and it was called how to start a movement. Okay. Um, and he said, if you really care about starting a movement, have the courage to follow and show others how to follow. And when you find a low nut doing something great, have the guts to be the first one to stand up and join in.

Oh, that's very cool. I just love it. It was like, you know, you, you and Dan obviously have a love for games. I love her doing things. You guys have known each other for a while and one of you on your own maybe could have done it.

But what I love is the two of you came together. Like, Hey, we see something here, right? We see something that's going on. We see people connecting. We see there's, there's a need in the market and we're going to, we're going to join together and do this thing together.

And then as people have come in, they've come in and seen that and still want, and then, and then want to join that movement and bring their friends and join that movement and starts to build momentum that way, which I think is something really great. We've, we've definitely noticed the momentum piece of it. We've not done any kind of marketing at all. We do have a Facebook page that we post events and stuff like that, but it's not a huge, everyone just brings their friends. And that's where all of our growth has been.

Just people get so excited about it. They bring the people they love to it and be like, Hey, come do this with me. You know, that's been really cool to watch that. Yeah. What are you most excited about right now?

In general, doesn't have to just be the game store, but like in general, what do you most excited about right now? Putting me on the spot there. I know. Just in general, what am I most excited? It could, it could be the game store.

Well, I'm going to Disney World in three weeks. We're really looking forward to that. Yeah. Okay. I love it.

Yeah. Getting ready for that. All the kids keep talking about it. So taking the whole family. Yeah.

We're taking the whole family. And remind me how many kids you have. I have four kids. Four kids ages. What to what?

17 down to 10. Okay. So very, very similar to mine. Mine are 17 down to six. Okay.

Yeah. Very similar. Yeah. Quite the spread. Um, so you guys are going to Disney World.

Yes. How many days? Uh, eight, seven, eight, eight, nine days. Let's go. So you're going to get all the parks.

Yes, we could. But you're not going to. We're not going to. Okay. You're going to do which parks?

Um, we were just there not too long ago, so we're going to focus on the parks that have new stuff. So there's been a couple of new things come out in the park since we were last there. We're going to focus on those. There's a couple of parks that we might just have to skip. Yeah.

Are you guys going to go just hang out at the beach for part of it? You're going to go to Universal for part of it? I'm probably. Where are you staying? Uh, old Key West.

Old Key West. Okay. Yeah. We, we, we love old Key West. Uh, but we love just going to the different, uh, resorts.

Yeah. My wife and I are big foodies and we love all the food at Disney World. And we love that over the last 10, 15 years, Disney World is focused really heavily on food and we're going for the. Okay. At EPCOT.

Yeah. We just love walking to the different resorts or taking the, the Montreal or the, the new and the skyliner over to the different resorts and just putting the food there. And so yeah, that right. So we love doing that aspect to it just as much as the parks. Do you guys go to Disney Springs much for.

We do. Yeah. I love Springs. Yeah. It's great.

And it's huge. It is. It was like, again, I'm, I'm a, I'm a Disneyland guy. Where you have to your downtown. Yeah.

And I mean, downtown Disney is great, but it's not nearly the size of Disney Springs. Yep. That place is humongous and got some really fun food places. There's a barbecue place there. Oh, if you've been a pig.

Yes. That place is legit. They have fantastic Brussels sprouts. They actually do. That's exactly right.

They're y'all y'all got to go and you got to get the Brussels sprouts at this barbecue place. Yep. Because you're going to taste it and be like, wow, I've never had a Brussels sprouts like that ever before. The only time I've had one's as good as like really, really fancy restaurants where you're like, they're really expensive. Correct.

I mean, they're not cheap there, but like they're not nearly expensive as a fancy restaurant. They're, they're amazing. Totally great. Yep. Yeah.

Totally great. Disney Springs is a fun time. What's good. You guys are going to have fun there. Yeah.

Um, good. Well, not everywhere can be the happiest place on earth. And at RCG Law Group, my job outside of our podcast, we get that. Life throws curve balls, legal stuff, family stuff, the things you didn't see coming, that's what we're here for. If you're dealing with something and don't know where to turn, give RCG a call.

What we'll do at the end is we're going to circle back to see if you have any final thoughts about Robin Hood. Um, we didn't talk about Wally. No. We can. All right.

Um, we'll circle back to that before we get there. We're going to do a couple of quick fun segments with you. Okay. We're going to do a this or that and then a rapid fire. Okay.

So this or that, they just make your choice of which one you think it is. No stress, no pressure. Um, I'll always have opinions as well. So fear not. Um, Robin Hood or little John.

Oh, Robin Hood. He's so great. Now little John's fun. Oh, of course it's Robin. Yeah, yeah.

It's Robin Hood. Of course it is. Um, bow and arrow or sword. Oh, bow and arrow. You bow and arrow guy.

Yeah. Yeah. From a distance. I don't want to fight. Keep your distance.

Yeah. You don't need close combat. Okay. I can appreciate that. Yeah.

I can totally appreciate that. Um, Sherwood forest or the castle. Okay. I mean, castles are cool. Castles are cool.

And castles are so awesome. Very cool. Um, are there any castles in, in Sweden? Sorry, Switzerland, Switzerland. Yeah, there are.

Nothing like you would find like in France or Germany or anything like that. I don't know, but they're there. They're there? For sure. They're pretty cool.

Have you visited many of them? Oh yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Are there like some in the Alps?

See, that would be cool. That would be cool. No, not that I know of. I don't know. Someone's going to call me out on that.

I know. Well, we're going to find out. Right. We're going to find out if there's a castle in the Alps. Not far from Neuschwanstein, which is, you know, southern Germany, which was the castle that Walt Disney based, the Cinderella castle, the Magic Kingdom is based on Neuschwanstein.

That's not very far from Switzerland. So like, is that the one that's in Soren over the world? Yes. That's the one. Is it really?

Yep. That's just in southern Germany. Man, that thing. It's not too far. Oh, I'd love to go there.

It's gorgeous. I've been there. And it's fantastic. That's why I say castles for sure. I get it.

And I'm not much of a nature. I don't do camping or anything. Okay. So you're like, no forest. I work with computers, dude.

Like, yeah, that's fair. Look, that's fair. I like my modern conveniences. I do too. I, and I grew up in Boy Scouts.

So I grew up half into camp. Like we had to, my dad was a scout master. So we had to. You got a lot of that. And he's also loves the national parks.

And Utah has a ton, right? Admittedly. And national parks are fantastic. I'm not trying to take away from you. But I am not a camper, man.

Bro, like I hadn't, I had to go. I had to, I shouldn't say it that way. I had the opportunity to go to a young men's camp with my two boys this summer. And we went to the green river and did some canyoning, which was great. But bro, sleeping in a tent, it was, oh, it's for the birds, man.

Yeah. I was like, there's a reason I haven't done this in like 15 years, because I do not care for that. I should have been smart. There was a couple other leaders. They had like big old trailers they brought with AC.

Oh, there you go. Bro. I was like, y'all, they didn't invite me in, making me sleep in the tent. Like, but at that point you just go to the nearest hotel. See like, and I'm all about hiking, right?

Like I'll go hiking. I'll enjoy, you know, Switzerland. We have amazing nature and love being outdoors. But yeah, when it comes to sleeping or bathrooms or anything like that, and just give me modern, you know, amenities. Yeah, I'm with you.

There was a, there was a hotel that was about 15 minutes outside of camp. And me and one of the other leaders, we were, we were very close to staying there. Like very close. I toughed it out. I made it work for the three nights that we were there, but I was tempted.

All right. Okay. Made Marion or Lady Cluck? Okay. That's a really good question.

Um, so my, my, my, my, my get to this, my favorite song, I love love the song love. I've made Marion's. Yes. Favorite Disney song. Um, so I love that, but going back to that scene where they're all fighting after the, uh, the air, the archery thing, uh, Lady Cluck rolls up her arms and she gets in there.

She just starts fighting for the sake of fighting and it's hilarious. And I love Lady Cluck for that. Like she's got some gumption, man. We're real like be one of my favorites just because of that scene where she just gets in there and she's so great. So good Chris, that's a tough one for me.

Yeah. Um, probably I'm going to go with Lady, uh, made Marion. Yeah. Cause the song, my song totally makes sense. Yep.

Um, okay. Board games or video games? Video games. Okay. What's your, if you had to pick one, what's your favorite video game?

Oh, Mario. Like the rich, the OG, Mario 64, the OG Mario, Mario three. Mario two, Mario Odyssey. Okay. How about this?

I could keep going. I'm going to go with this or that or that Mario one, two or three. Three. I loved three. You're so good.

It was really fun. I will admit because I didn't have a lot of patience to mingle with the games a lot of times I would, I would like to find the ways that I could then skip ahead of the worlds. And then I cheated like a hundred percent. You move on to the next. Let me cheat.

Number two, I never passed. I never beat number two. It was hard, man. Yeah. It was tough game.

Yeah. Um, okay. Pokemon or Lorcan. Lorcan. Pokemon or magic.

Respect to magic for introducing card games. We have TCGs because of magic. So respect. I'm going to have to say magic. Okay.

Totally fair. Um, game night at home or game night at the game store. Oh, the game store. Okay. Do you bring your, do you bring your kids there ever?

Oh yeah. I'm there all the time with my kids. I'm sure they love it. I'm sure they love it. Um, opening a pack or trading for the card you want.

Opening a pack. Love the pack. Yeah. Does it? Yeah.

Yeah. I like it. Yeah. It's like, it's like crack. People love that stuff, man.

I mean, they call it cardboard crack for a reason. Opening packs is there's something there. Okay. I love it. Um, Disneyland or Disney World.

Uh, yeah, Disney World for sure. And that's where you went. Yeah. Just nostalgia, right? Totally.

So yeah, that's why for me it's Disneyland, right? But boy, I'll have to make some Disney World. Now that I've been twice, man, it's fun. I love EPCOT. It's always something to do.

Like EPCOT is, that's my favorite in the Disney World area. Like it's so good. The food's great. They've got amazing rides. That new Guardians ride.

It is the best roller coaster. Like it just totally is. It's so good. Okay. Here's our rapid fire.

Okay, so we are going to get to that one question, but we will get in there in a second. Favorite Disney movie. Uh, right now it's WALL-E. Okay. I love WALL-E.

Okay. So since we didn't get to WALL-E, even though this is rapid fire, we're going to, we're going to pretend like it's not rapid fire. Tell me more about WALL-E. Tell me about why you love it. And if there's any kind of connection to the kind of stuff we were talking about.

Yeah, definitely. Um, I love WALL-E the robot. I feel like how the creators of that movie were able to give him such a personality, make him so likable so quickly without dialogue is phenomenal. It's artistry. Like it's like you immediately fall in love with this little robot.

And you're like, oh my gosh, I'm emotionally attached to this kid. And he hasn't said anything. This is amazing. So, and then the way he treats Eve too. Right.

Um, and then just how he goes about and wakes up all the humans kind of from their screens just by fumbling around. Right. Like he wasn't trying to do a big movement. He wasn't trying to cause a commotion, but just by being himself, he just caused all these people to kind of come back to earth. Yeah.

Right. And I just, I love that. Yeah. Such a great story. It's a great story.

It's so well told. It was such a risk. Yeah. Right. You're going to have a movie where there's basically no dialogue for the first half an hour of an animated movie.

Yup. Like that's risky. And I think they pulled it off and it's terrific. I love that. WALL-E is amazing.

Okay. Favorite Disney song? Love. Love. Yeah.

Um, you know, what's funny is I was, I was trying to download the soundtrack. Um, um, earlier today I have Apple music, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the soundtrack, only like two songs are available to do.

Like the rest of them are blacked out. I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Apple.

For reals. And love's not one of the ones that I could. I was like, that is such a ripoff. It's not really happy. I need to go to YouTube for that one.

Okay. So that's why I was like, cause normally, normally Apple music has everything I want. Correct. Normally. Yeah.

Yeah. So it was very surprising when they didn't, I was very disappointed. Okay. I'm going to go to YouTube. Um, favorite Disney princess?

Belle. Okay. Tell me why. That's a really good question. I don't know.

I felt she just, I don't know, she was just cool. She was different. She was nerdy. Yeah. I guess.

There you go. That's what it is. I like the nerdy. She was in her book. She wasn't into Gaston.

Yeah. Like all the other women and I'm no Gaston, you know. You're like, I like the girl who's good at the music. You respect me for my brain. Yeah.

For reals, right? The one who's also nerdy. Then I'm going to say Belle. Belle was great. I loved Belle.

Yeah. Um, I thought she was, uh, sharp and quirky and endearing. Yeah. Um, yeah, I always, I always loved Belle. Um, favorite ride at any Disney park?

Right now it's the Ratatouille ride. It's so good. Oh, like, yeah, I get emotional riding that ride right now. It's so good. How come?

I love it. I don't know. Just like the music being like on top of the roofs and in France, you know, when you're walking to the queue and the music's playing and Ratatouille and just, yeah, I love the story and everything. There's just something about it. It's so great.

Yeah. So the last time we were at Disney World, uh, it was just, it was my wife and my two girls and it was, we were at EPCOT obviously, and it was pouring rain. Yeah. Like so hard. We were absolutely drenched.

And so a lot of people had left the park because it was raining so hard. And we were over in France. Yeah. And like there was hardly anybody in line. And so we would get done and they're like, go right back in.

We're like, sweet. We went like three or four times in a row. I'm like, this is amazing. I love it. And it's chill.

Yeah. It's nice. You can just hang out and just enjoy a good story. I don't know. That's where I'm at right now, but I do, I will say, uh, honorable mention to Tower Terror.

Okay. There's nothing quite like that one. So I, um, before, um, at Disneyland and California Adventure, Tower of Terror was my ride, like a hundred percent was my ride. I loved everything about it. I loved, uh, what they did with the original guy from it, how they were able to adapt his voice to have him say the stuff, like the music from it.

It was my jam. And I was so nervous when they were changing it to Guardians. I was like, how could they do this to my beloved Tower of Terror? Agreed. I was with you.

And now I love Guardians. They pull it off. But I'm glad, I'm glad that Tower of Terror is still available. Yeah. Hopefully they don't change it out in Hollywood Studios.

Hopefully not. They need to keep it. The whole vibe is amazing. They need to keep both because now both are amazing and you have different experiences in parks. That's right.

Tower of Terror is so good though. It is. It's amazing. Man, I love it. So, okay.

Favorite Lor-Kana card. Ooh, it's a Robin Hood card. Is it? It's called Sneaky Sleuth. Okay.

And what does Sneaky Sleuth do? Um, he gains extra lore. So in the game, you're trying to get lore, 20 lore before your opponent. He gets extra lore for every damaged opposing character, which is really fun. But the artwork of that card is my favorite artwork of any Lor-Kana card.

It's him sneaking on the roofs and you have like the moon in the background. It's so well done. Do you, do you play with it? Do you use it or do you keep it separate because it's your card? I have a ton of, it's a pretty common card.

Okay. Right. So I have like a ton of copies of it. And when I, I will play with it as soon as I get an opportunity to play with it. I just love that card.

That's totally fair. Um, okay. Favorite video game console of all time? Oh, just cause of memories, the 64. The Nintendo 64, that controller and everything, like all the games that came out in the end and the age I was when it came out, I gotta say the 64 is my.

Yeah. You were born in 85? Yes. Okay. I, for me, it was a Super Nintendo.

Okay. I love the original Nintendo and then Super Nintendo came out and I played like Street Fighter 2, which was funny because there's no Street Fighter 1. It's a Street Fighter 2, but man, there was something about that. And then, and then when 64 came out, I hadn't been playing as much. So I didn't get quite the connection with 64.

Uh, and then once I started playing video games again, it was once I was in my twenties and it was Xbox and I started playing and then now I play Call of Duty. In fact, I'm playing Call of Duty tonight with my buddies. We're getting together in person until they get it. Oh, that's cool. Like an actual couch co-op.

Yes. I love it. Like we've got, I'm such a nerd that I've got four TVs on my wall. Like, and we all hook in our systems to our own TV and then sit there and play. Cause we were such nerds, but it's such a good time.

Cause we're like together, right? Like we're together at the great time. We're freaking loving it. I never got an Xbox right inside. It was always Nintendo.

It's always a Nintendo guy. Yep. Um, my wife was big into Nintendo and, uh, a few years back, she got one of those ones that comes pre-programmed with all of the Nintendo games, basically. And it was so fun because then we have like the hooked in controllers with the original ones and my little girls are sitting there playing like Mario with us and playing all these games. It was so fun.

Yeah. Like such memory lane for us. Yeah. And they loved it. Yep.

They're still fun games. We have one at the store. Do you really? We have a little lounge section with the TV and we have a Super Nintendo preloaded with like a bunch of games. Oh, that's amazing.

The kids love it. It's so good. Yeah, I'm sure they do. Yeah, that sounds awesome. I need to bring my kids to your store now.

Um, okay. Um, Robin Hood character you most relate to. Um, just like we're, we're kind of talking about this a little bit earlier. I'm not much of a, like in front of the camera kind of a guy. I'm like behind the scenes.

I have to say Friar Tuck. I was going to guess that. It's a little in my head. I'm like, he's gotta be Friar Tuck. Yeah.

Oh, Friar Tuck is great. Yeah. Friar Tuck is awesome. Um, for me, it's probably little John. Okay.

Like I just, I like that he's just fun and he's also there to like, he is there to help and he will do anything. Uh, but he doesn't have to be the leading man, but he's just like, there's just something about little John that I just love. I just think he's funny and fun. He's a good time. Um, okay.

What is the question or questions that I should have asked you that I didn't either about Robin Hood or about Wally or anything that you had had on your mind that you wanted to talk about that we didn't get to, if there's anything. Oh, you asked so many more questions than I thought you were going to ask. Okay. So we might be good. We might be good.

Okay. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Well, what we like to do is we'd like to end every episode and give our, our audience three actionable takeaways.

So three things that they can put into action in their life today, or this week they can immediately do and, and relating to the topic. So here ways that they can help to create a better sense of belonging in their lives, uh, be better peacemakers and bring more of that. So what would your three actionable takeaways be? Yeah. If I actually, you brought it down.

My notes. Let's go. Um, time to, uh, Robin Hood and Wally, uh, that we didn't actually discuss too much, but I think there's like a lot in Wally that, you know, we can draw upon, but as far as like finding common ground, something that I feel like I have to do a lot growing up, moving around and stuff like that, you know what I mean? And now, nowadays in today's world with technology, I feel like that's more important than ever is just trying to find the commonality and stuff. Right.

So, um, number one, and this is, this is a big one. I know, especially like in the business space, like people use this word a lot, but I would say be curious, right? Get curious before you get convincing, right? Before you're trying to push someone, your, your views to somebody, like get curious into why their views are their views. I like the way you say that.

Say it again. And why they play the games they play or do the things that they do before you're trying to push your stuff onto them. Good. Be curious, get curious and find out more about them. That's number one.

Get curious before you get convincing. I've never heard it said that way and I really like that. Okay. That's excellent. What's the next one?

Um, tank to Wally, sorry, on the curiosity thing. There's one of the things that I love about Wally is when he's digging up through the trash, it's just trash. I just love how he like interacts with all the trash and he like takes it home. Like there's a cool piece of trash he takes it home. Oh yeah.

And just his curiosity that he brings to everything. Like that's, I love that. It's, it's enviable when he sees Eve, totally different robot. He's not scared of it, but he's curious. He's like, Oh, I need to find out more about this robot thing.

Anyway. Yeah. Cause like when he's, when he's finest up to what you made me think of is like he finds the bra. He puts it on his head. He finds the bra.

He's like, he's like, you know, cause he doesn't know. Yeah. He's just curious about it. He's just curious about it. Exactly.

It's a great example of the curiosity. Yeah. I love that. So, so number one, get curious. Number two, um, make it human.

Right. Don't categorize. Um, I feel like that's, that's something that when you're playing games, when you're sitting across the table from somebody you brought up earlier through your opponent short, but they're also human, right? And then you can make a connection there. Love it.

Um, I think that just remember that whoever you're interacting with, whoever you're trying to find common ground with is just like you, they're human. Right. So find the humanity in it and don't categorize or don't lump people into something, cause then you remove their humanity and you either don't treat them the same or don't feel them the same. You know what I mean? So, uh, number two, make it human.

And number three, this one was probably my favorite and you kind of touched on a little bit of, uh, little John, but, uh, be humorous, lighten up. Yeah. Being able to not take yourself too seriously. Yeah. I think it's really important.

For sure. And trying to find common ground with people and trying to help people. And I think Robin Hood and little John did such a fantastic job at that. Right. They're being chased by the guards.

They're having arrows thrown at them. He finds the arrow in his hat at the very beginning. He kind of laughs about it. He's like, oh yeah, like that close, you know, and they kind of laugh, you know, okay, you almost died, but yeah, sure. Let's, let's laugh about it.

Right. And I think they're just such a great example of, you know, just being humorous. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, and a related thing with that is when he has, Robin Hood has to jump into the water and they're shooting the arrows, right?

And he lets his hat float up and it looks like he is. And then he's really got the read, right? That he's doing. And then when he goes over to where it's at and little John's there and then he squirts him in the face with the water and little John's like, Oh man, you totally got me. Right.

Like, just like the levity. In a very serious situation, they still find a way to kind of be humorous and just kind of have fun. Yeah. I think that's fantastic. Well, those are terrific takeaways.

Thank you for sharing those. Thank you for sharing so generously of your time, of your experiences, of your childhood, of the things that have, have motivated you to create this amazing space that you guys have over there at Hearthside Games and what that does for the community, what that does for a sense of belonging for the people who, who go and connect and have a great place that brings a little bit more, I would say like light and joy into this life, which I think is super special and amazing. Thanks brother. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

As you lead this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.