the which movie project there it is again that violin I just can't get over that violin and that which laughing is that actually actual footage of you Courtney where do we get that which look it's not me because I really need to work on my cackle oh I don't have a good cackle you don't have a cackle huh yeah but I think the older I get the more I the more I'm getting to it right okay is that what it is but you're like 700 something years old so you got to get even older than that you oh okay okay here we are it's the which movie project this is a big episode today because two of these movies I love both of these movies I don't think you'd seen either one of them yeah a lot of nakedness in both so you got a lot of good stuff going on there yeah usually usually we like to one of us usually likes to decorate ourselves as a little cosplay this one not so much we couldn't cause we could have done the the eyelids from Samantha's character in love which because that's one of the movies we could have done that I got my wingtips on today you just can't can't really tell that's true that's true right into but this is the love which and the autopsy of Jane Doe this is all leading up to the big event October 26th novel daybreak by Crescent communities presents the which movie project live podcast taping and movie screening and costume contest pride are donated by land of a thousand hills thank you so much for that man that's gonna be crazy over there I gotta say I don't like to play favorites but one of these movies that we're about to talk about today I really hope I hope is is the one that we screen I really do yeah we've each got our little favorites try not to let that influence our audience and what they decide or what they vote for but we've got our hopes but we're trying yeah so let's go ahead and get to today's episode let's go check out these two movies the love which and the autopsy of Jane Doe I am so excited about these two movies Courtney I know I know being your pick really though I have only seen these for the first time in the last maybe year or so and guess what these both came out in 2016 within months of each other yeah they couldn't be more similar but so far apart once again it's a it's a common theme here what we're doing but to me you've got one witch who is trying way too hard to get the result and you got one way to lazy doesn't it's a tough one like yeah and we can talk about what real witchcraft might look like and it's probably a little bit more like the Jane Doe I have to say so our second movie is the autopsy of Jane Doe the first movie is the love which with Samantha Robinson like holy cow Wow right first up what about the art direction like it's I ran across this movie late at night one time maybe a year ago and I was like man is this from the 70s like this awesome how did it look so good and then I finally looked in and found out that oh this is the art style this was the direction they use the technicolor and make the colors pop her makeup I mean like it's every it pops I know yeah yeah go ahead yeah oh I had to look it up because I'm Emma Willis I know it's here you're gonna hear me like shuffling pages and Emma Willis is the the makeup and I mean you have to give props because it's on point I tried to do my little cat eye eyeliner today and I was telling like I had to do this side like four times I still couldn't get it right it's really hard to do a cat eye it's a this movie though is a like a visual feast it looks like 60s 70s somewhere in that timeframe that's before me so I'm not really sure but it's the story it follows wait she's a she's a modern-day witch I guess is that what you would say and she's trying to use her powers to find love like is that the yeah yeah but this is a really good example of like we talked about last week like the intentions of the witch herself if she's in a good mindset or if she's in a good place like what what those spells will create and I don't think it's any surprise that Elaine our main character the love witch she's in sort of a coming from a crisis mode she was in a mental health facility she talks about this in the opening sequence she's driving she's like everybody's been abused and much worse than I have and you know they'll be okay and she's talking about trying to come out of this mental health crisis she's been in this breakdown but um she's in an energy of desperation of trying to figure out what did I do wrong in my last relationship why didn't it work why didn't you love me so it's no surprise that the spells throughout the movie are seeing like how this is playing out she's she's coming at it with that energy right yeah and let's and let's just say that she's just a badass because as she's driving in that opening sequence she's chain-smoking what I found to be after pausing it and zooming in man those are like Newport mythos she was hardcore smoking but look making it look so sexy like it's it's that oh it's the 60s you can be and yeah you you can drive and smoke and they're smoking throughout the movie you know that yeah and it's just it adds to it but it gives you that I don't know that that kind of grunge feel but yet she makes it look so good they all kind of do I mean everybody in this movie like really yeah these movies also both of these movies lots of naked yeah that's a nakedness yeah one movie you got the witch who lays naked the entire time mm-hmm not in a sexual way but then the other love which she is this seductress she is very much fine so so once again you got the comparison of two naked witches with way different outcomes of what their yeah scantily cladness would be right well there's a lot of nakedness in the love which anyway we get into like when when the rituals are taking place and things like that I mean it's a very common image you think of when you think of witchcraft or like witches in the woods they're gonna be naked they're gonna be dancing on a fire they're gonna be dancing with the devil I mean thing that's sort of the imagery you think of with witchcraft what's interesting though it's really on point for a 60s 70s movie because all the women are attractive almost I mean all the ones I saw is like thin beautiful not a blemish in sight and the men not traditionally attractive I mean not what you would normally think of as attractive so you're kind of like you have a feast of the eyes for those attracted to women but those attracted to men we we don't go quite get the feast for the eyes that we deserve because they even in a man the man who were naked in the background like it's it's not much to look at and then we're not out here judging but I think traditionally attractive because I don't believe in a in a in a one size fits all yeah I totally see that and I mean that's kind of honestly that's a big theme in the movie here is is she just kind of looking for love it doesn't matter she you know it's not she doesn't really have a type I don't guess or does she well it seems like she's definitely open to anything yeah someone gives her a little bit of attention she's like all right I'm going with this and we'll see how far I can get here or I'll see where this this pans out but when talking about the the Technicolor the cinematography of like making it look like the it was made in the 1960s I I realized I have quite a bias against movies that are older and and I'm realizing that because when you brought this movie up we're first making our list I looked it up and I was like oh this movie looks old yeah I don't know if I want to watch this is it gonna be like super boring am I gonna sit here and watch this whole movie and then I looked at the the year 2016 I was like wait what yeah what yeah it was absolutely plucked right out of in fact the choice of actors they were just obscure enough I didn't know any of them from other things so I was like oh they they totally could have been from the 60s not only that you didn't know them much but they all were stars in the movie like they Samantha Robinson shines Jeffrey Fetcher praise shines Jennifer Ingram shot like they all incredible everybody in this movie like you said I love that it fits it because if they would have picked a I don't want to say these people aren't a listeners but if they would have picked a huge mm-hmm if you're who Angelina Jolie and no yeah Tom Hanks exactly you already know Sergeant Griff can you picture that no but the guy I don't know if I say his name again keys that plays Griff yeah great amazing his facial expressions fit the 1960 style of acting I mean it just it makes you feel like you are watching a from that time period like right out of the I wanted you to get into the tarot cards and the artwork because there's a lot of stuff that I an outsider to this kind of lore might have missed and I'm not picked up on it because there's lots of tarot cards there's she mixing herbs there's all the there's witch stuff there's a lot of witch stuff going on so tell me about it I mean she puts some sort of spell on the first guy Wayne and was it Wayne and then she takes I used tampon and I'm not saying that in a derogatory way literally I used tampon and puts it into a bottle of some sort with some other which stuff like what is all this is this typical stuff like what is this okay we can get into all of that I want to I want to start from opening sequence and from her going into the house she even mentions she meets Trish Trish is like oh your friend Barbara couldn't meet you I'm here to let you into the apartment Trish is British what a powerhouse that's what a powerhouse Trish was right oh she's fantastic and she she talks about the artwork so she says she decorated the apartment and it's like based on the Thoth tarot which the director intentionally decorated the artwork all of that the colors coming from the Thoth tarot and what's interesting about that is that there's the Thoth tarot and there's a Rider Waite Smith that are considered to be kind of the original artwork for tarot they're a little bit different but they come from the same place so they are the same time period and I wrote it down they are both from no shoot now I have to find it in my notes there's a certain society I have so many notes here that it like everything gets lost in here on the tarot cards now go ahead so Rider Waite Smith they are a group of people who wrote like what we considered to be kind of the original artwork that was published it was first multi-published but they're both from the hemitic order of the golden dawn a secret society that created both the Thoth tarot and the Rider Waite Smith and what's interesting is when you see Elaine later doing a tarot reading when Wayne is going through his little tough time there and she's sitting there and she does a tarot reading I had to stop and pause on that because I'm like actually that's the Rider Waite Smith deck so they mentioned Thoth as the inspiration for the artwork in the apartments you have a lot of those like bright colors like a lot of like primary colors blue red yellow right it's very bright but just very interesting and we'll get into like as we go through the movie some meanings of those tarot cards that she pulls out when she does her reading yeah because I got a lot of questions about that let's go back to Trish yeah she's Laura Waddle is the one that played her and I got a nerd out here for a minute because she's she's a big voice actor in video games so if you're a bunch of games out there I think World of War craft maybe even a Tomb Raider game or two you might hear some similarities there in her character but that's just me nerd now but if this is all my video games anytime I can tie witches into video games I'd be awesome yeah whole other top whole other idea wait a minute we'll get there you might be onto something here we need to sell this to a game company and be like hey how can we something from this yes but I would buy it the tarot art do you want to get into the tarot art now because I'm fascinated so well she let's see trying to think of where this begins so if Trish and her go to the the tea room um there's this really significance um that the director uh Anna Biller she says that when you see warm colors in the that are in the shot um representing the masculine side so the sun energy and then you have cooler colors and other scenes representing the feminine energy or the moon so she had kind of a moon and sun um play with colors in the different scenes there so that matches up that matches definitely with what's going on in the movie because there's there's a it's the themes of love obsession and the power dynamics between men and women and see Elaine as it's she's a symbol of women empowerment in this but it's also everything that men fear it's everything it's really yes she's all of those things but still able to get what she wants and I think that's a powerful message to get across there yeah and it's interesting because the conversation between Elaine and Trish at the tea room when they first meet it's really setting you up for the the sort of play in the movie of what is it is what are the actual feminist undertones here what is actually the message because you have Trish who's like listening to like you just have to be his fantasy and you have to give him whatever he wants and men men are simple and they're like children they just they have their needs and blah blah blah and Trish is like uh what about my needs yep uh what and I'm like who's the feminist here and who actually has power right because is it Trish who believes that like well women should be able to have their careers and should be able to go to a furniture convention yeah yeah my husband not go crazy while I'm gone like he should be able to handle himself he should love me for me she's like oh i guess i guess my husband just loves me for me and i and she believes that at that moment in the movie whereas Elaine is like by the end of the movie giving a speech about how you know i become their fantasy and then their mind to control and but she's really living her life to be whatever men want her to be yep right so it begs this question of like is men objectifying you actual power or is that playing into still the idea that we exist for men something to think about for you feminists out there I mean but you're right there is a balance there's a fine line of balance between those two things it's like you could tip one way or the other very easily and it's there i love that that you picked up yeah yeah and I mean we're skipping around a little bit but at the end when she says witchcraft gave me power she's not wrong there obviously you see throughout the movie these uh these uh hints or these clues that elaine was abused as a child by her father she was treated poorly badly and disrespected by her husband and uh she is clearly in a mental state of like believing her worth depends on how the men in her life see her so she says witchcraft saved my life witchcraft is my power and that is a a really good point because a lot of women turn to witchcraft because they feel powerless in their life that they're in an oppressed they're part of the oppressed um society the or gender so it's their way of being like well if i can't have power in society I'm at least gonna have power in this way right i love that now so yeah so with that being said that little rant is over you can rant all you i love that the take I mean that's what we're that's what we're trying to do here is breaking down and find out and look at symbols and compare and the and the themes like what what is the director really trying to show here with a female director you've got these undertones of like the feminist point of view right and may i just say so we're going through the movie and we have wendy who is the shop owner at the little play by jennifer couch um at the little shop apothecary where elaine is going to sell her witch bottles and stuff um we briefly see her twice in the movie she has a very you know pretty small moment but i had to point it out because she's incredible too her acting she's incredibly bland yeah right and it makes you it like transports me back in time it makes me think I'm watching a movie from a whole generation ago right like it's there yeah right yeah she goes up to talk to her and wendy's just at the counter like can i help you yep I mean it's just deadpan just it's perfect i had to give a shout out i loved it i love that it is perfect and the the tarot cards artwork yes I'm ready to get to that because i got a lot of questions about it I've seen different artwork but the same names on all these cards what were these cards that she had in this movie and are they the same as we see I know you talked about it with the two different kinds but what was what were these that she had yeah so she was um doing a little reading three card spread you see her doing that on the table at wane's cabin um while wane's having a bit of a emotional breakdown in she does this uh spread and I'm looking at it closer and I'm like that's not thought that's a right of way to smith at least from my knowledge now somebody else might know tarot way more than me I'm not an expert but if somebody knows differently you can definitely shout it out to me I'm like oh that's that's um the writer wheat smith artwork that I know of and so i pulled out my rachel true deck and i found the same cards in the spread so I'm thinking to myself if I was doing this tarot reading what would I think about these cards and she had she pulled up the five of cups okay I'm going to try to show it on camera because if you are watching on youtube then you can see it this is her interpretation of five cups it looks very different than the movie or the writer way smith but the meaning you know different tarot artists and tarot writers can do kind of their own interpretation of the tarot and that's totally allowed so while everything has a symbol and a meaning it's also up for intuition and interpretation based on the reader based on the artwork of the all that can be an influence but you'll see in this card how it doesn't necessarily look like a very positive card you have like a woman in a bathtub and there's portraits all around her with eyes and the cups are around her spilling out water and she's kind of in a like crying state and I don't like to say that there's tarot cards that are bad or negative but um but there are tarot cards that are going to be pretty blunt and are going to be like yeah the joke is oracle cards are like everything is free and everything is wonderful and tarot is like you're in trouble girl so it'll give you the truth is the me is the basic kind of like so you're saying it'll it'll turn out like that tarot movie that just came out oh love it all right hey watch out for bonus episode where me and Courtney Pearl break down we have to talk about that one because that came out a while after we made our list but it was pretty interesting right yeah but yeah the idea here is like the five of cups means emotional turmoil it's a point of struggle it's not like everything's easy breezy everything's gonna turn out your way she's got the tarot or the tower card in the middle the tower is notorious for being like everything's about to blow up in your face get ready you're gonna have to leap from a burning building that's kind of the energy of the tower the tower and then of course this shows up a few times in the movie the three of swords with the heart being stabbed the three swords I mean I don't think you have to be a tarot reader ton like kind of derive some meaning from that it's a heart it's been stabbed three times so that's the reading she gets with wane now the whole thing like you just mentioned the heart with the swords and I'm thinking about some of the imagery we see we already talked about the vibrant colors but there's a lot of symbolism in the rituals that they're performing and on top of that the color schemes and the way it's all arranged almost feels like you're in a dream it feels like you're asleep it's very dreamlike which fits into the whole the theme of love and passion you know you're you're like the movie fills you for it not as happy as our other movie but no that one yeah really different vibe but horror um when i you know when i looked it up it was considered um in the article I was reading it was considered a horror comedy yeah uh which you can definitely see that aspect of it because there's some moments that are just kind of like what's happening right now like the this there's a sequence in there where they're at like a medieval festival type thing there's dance I'm like man this is yeah it's wild you know lots of tarot symbols in that medieval scene too you got the big sun in the background where they're playing out the um which by the way there's they call it a midsummer festival um but at the same time they have the holly king um battling with winter um it it it reads a little bit more like a or as the young kids would say it's giving it's giving spring vibes yeah but he called it midsummer so I don't know but there's a lot of tarot symbols uh the fool the jester that's running around with this little jester receptor and he's kind of being silly um those are all symbols from the major arcana of the of the tarot deck so great to know see i i thought maybe i picked up on that but it it was there it's very evident uh my final thoughts on love which is I think it's it's a it's a classic and I mean that in two different ways it it looks like a classic but I think it's also stands the it tests stands the test of time or whatever you want to call it and I think it just has its own place in which horror it has its own place in full core genre it's a work of art i really did enjoy it yeah i want to shout out that also so laboratories that's the the the people who uh basically produced this film and i loved it i love that company because they did a movie that i really really love called coherence and this one's not a witch movie cortney so paper you can't all be great exactly yeah but this movie I've seen this movie over a hundred times um and they wow and I'm just pointing that out because the artistic direction in this and what they do in coherence it's almost like to me uh this company oscilloscope laboratories they are almost like an a24 it's like you're gonna get an experience coherence yeah an experience coherence is shot like a stage play the actors knew bullet points but they didn't get given a script so i love when people are thinking outside the box this love which movie is outside the box with the whole thing is it's like you said you were like oh my gosh we have to watch an old movie that's only five years old six years but you know yeah well it was it was it was uh challenging my bias and I'm happy to be challenged in that there's plenty of movies that were made 30 years ago 50 years ago they're fantastic movies as well so i need to get over that that's my issue now a problem for the movie we've got someone else coming up here later on in this project we're doing but what are your final thoughts on the love which okay final thoughts this is a feast for the eyes but it's also a feast for the witch because if a witch watches and you're watching for all of this symbolism and you're looking for things like what's in the witch bottle and what they do um which by the way uh using parts of your own body is is uh that is a practice in witchcraft um typically I don't see people using urine and tampons in witch crops that's just not the way I've seen it done I'm not saying that isn't something that people might do um it's yeah you're using menstrual cycle to attract yeah yeah i have used hair so like in making an offering when I am picking things from my garden I don't want to just take from the plants i usually leave like a strand of hair in the soil to nourish it with whatever offering that i can um you know our nail clippings or things like that that might nourish a garden and be offered back to the earth you know just in a symbol symbolistic uh symbolic of reciprocity with the land things like that um however i just want to point out that the tampon thing it bothers me because we just found out research just showed how much chemicals and lead is in tampons so that doesn't seem quite as natural um as the menstrual blood would maybe do in the witchcraft so I'm just gonna I'm just gonna work that out maybe that's that why it didn't work out for maybe that's not why yeah yeah not not a fan not a fan but my final thought is in the tarot so you see richard the married man that she has an affair with he does a little tarot spread as well and in his spread you see the devil card and in the devil card you have two people usually man woman um naked on the card with the devil and they're chained up and this card usually comes up when we're talking about addiction or we're talking about vices or things that keep you trapped and trained and you know when you're too much in your ego and that's not serving you but it is in contrast and a lot of tarot readers read them as opposites it is the um balancing card with the lovers card okay so they have the same kind of imagery on them you have the two people chained up on the devil card and you have the two lovers on the lover card and I think that is very um much the overall takeaway from this movie is that in you know to be careful with what you want and like what you're actually seeking for because she kept seeking for real true love and what she got was a lot of lust passion um insecurity uh you know it didn't work in her favor it was more like the devil card showing up right i love it so there you go i will watch are you gonna watch this movie again oh yeah yeah yeah this will be like maybe a certain time of your favorite maybe during valentine's day I mean it's love which i do I think that'd be a great great one uh maybe we'll maybe we'll screen there for valentine's day oh that'd be amazing put some people under spare maybe we'll have a naked ritual or whatever they did in the movie and we'll set yeah yeah my my days of doing anything like that were long gone if they ever happened at all that forgets me doing that speaking of naked let's talk about this next movie um the autopsy of jane doe I know I don't like to call stuff favorites and all that but this but you've been chopping it the bit since the beginning I know that it's moving himself up at the top for me uh it's i can see why where do you start with this movie you've got you've got the protagonist that never moves she's laying on a table the main character the witch of this movie never moves never moves she or does she because i swear like her face her uh impression like it looks like they change a little bit in the movie but they yeah well mac even said at one point we're watching it he goes did i just see her i move now and we weren't sure it wasn't quite the the writer ian goldberg and richard nane i saw an interview with them on on joe bob they joe bob riggs and darcy have done this movie and ian goldberg joe bob asked him did her face move and he's like no it's just the the great acting of our main character jane doe which is played by owen kelly owen catherine kelly and she shares the yoga I know and it said yeah i read that they had looked for and the reason she was cast is because she is a a yogi a practices yoga and was able to stay still they did not want to use like a fake body they thought oh people will will be able to tell and we don't want it to be fake we want it to be a real body and I mean that's incredible mind-blowing she laid there for eight to ten hours a day during building on a put on what i would call it oscar this is an oscar winning performance without having to do anything I know say that i say that because you I know you got to do a lot to do that but on the surface you don't have to do anything except do it well she did it she did it so well that that along with what we'll get into uh brian cox and mil hersh the acting from them you are immersed in this film you are trapped at old it's the old school mentality of the cabin in the woods or uh how do we get everybody isolated to where you get out to where you make the viewer feel that way sure we've seen it a million times but not like this yeah well go ahead you want to say something i see i see yeah well I was just thinking about how you you only see the outside of the in a couple little parts you know right at the beginning right at the end the entire movie takes place like underground in this morgue and in a in a morgue in a family home now how many people live in the you know morgue or a little weird right i couldn't do it i actually got a friend i got a good friend i went to high school with stephanie i love you stephanie she lives above one in my hometown she lives above a funeral home wow talked to her about before she said there's some weird stuff but you know you just don't go looking yeah and this movie they they didn't have a choice like the the doors are opening there's bodies walking around like it's you're on a oh my gosh yeah there's all these little pieces the radio you got the radio playing different music at certain times that matches up you've got brian cox playing uh the dad the main oh he's fantastic and he he keeps us cool it's like i love how they're cutting open the body and he's like oh I've seen this a thousand times yeah and it's generational like they they have this um this job this career has been in the family for generations so it's like passed on to father to son like we just we do autopsies right the hilden morgue is what it is in virginia or somewhere but it's he's it's his life and you can tell he's not really rattled by much it's many times he says oh it's a corpse oh it's this it's that yeah yeah there's got to be some detachment yeah in doing that job like I'm not thinking about this person their life or why or how they die or why they died but how is the only question i need to ask and yeah he gets tested though like it's as this movie progresses it's we'll get to that part but there did you did you um in doing some research for this movie uh emily hersch that plays austin the son he actually went and worked with coroners for a while to learn how to do it so he was like um observing spent time with bodies spent time like watching them do autopsies um and brian cox was like not me I don't like you're a better man than me i can't do it i cannot that's too it's too icky it's too you know he was too grossed out by it so I don't I don't think i there's parts in this movie that i have a hard time watching it's like it makes me cringe and I'm like first of all it's a movie second of all is if it was real it's an autopsy like it's you got the you got the process yeah you know me seeing them doing the big incisions and what is it yeah what is it cracking the ribs open oh man you hear the sound effects with the crunch crunch crunch all that even the rib saw or whatever he calls it yeah yeah it's it's it's excruciating to watch and then when we find out later on that not only is it excruciating to watch but it's excruciating for the main character at the same time even though she's dead spoiler sorry but she could feel all this happening yeah according to them and I don't want to jump too far ahead because there's a lot of things that are lining up that are out of ordinary you go from if you catch these little set these little signs and these little little tidbits such as the very beginning of the movie beautiful weather yes you hear it you you can hear it in the background they're talking about there's beautiful weather coming no signs of anything basically and then guess what that body shows up all hell breaks loose you can hear the storm you the weather reports on the radio are different yeah everything's like this storm is worse we've got which i kept thinking oh if the storm's so bad then um his girlfriend emma was that her name yeah yeah yeah I'm like oh she probably won't come back then because he sends her away he says I'm sorry another body's come in i need to help my dad you know go go without me come back we'll go see a midnight show meet me here in a couple of hours and the whole time I'm thinking well she's not going to come back there's a huge storm exactly so when she does come back tragedy strikes yeah but we also find out that that storm never happened yeah like it to me on your first watch you don't notice them talking about the weather so much in the background and you just it's like too much movie version yeah catch that on on a on a re-watch and you're like oh my gosh there's all these little signs that are like not that we don't know already that shit ain't right like something we but the weather picks up then we find out you can't get it out of the elevator powers what the power is out the storm door is trapped by the old oak tree like all these things and yeah they build trapped feeling that intensity really well you're just like oh isolation you can't get in or out basically is what the thought is and to me it's the thing it's alien which is steven king who doesn't like anything really can go probably see our project here if he ever does and be like that's trash oh boy yeah i probably agree but even how could i i love this project steven king did say that this movie it was up there with echelons of alien and that's yeah huge compliment I'm an alien fan I mean i got an alien poster on my shoulder here alien is one of the greatest franchises in the history of horror movies aliens the peak for me yeah think about it that movie should be the most terrifying movie you ever see space trap nowhere to go and the perfect organism on the other and for him to compare these two movies together i see it she's the perfect organism in this situation there's no way to stop her it's yeah terrifying super terrifying that you're isolated in this morgue not a spaceship lots of similarities to the alien movies right and still found a way to do it in a new way uh it's this movie yeah you get that feeling when they're in the elevator I mean they've done everything they can to run away to try to like find some safety right like you do and you feel that sense with them because you're like just get into the elevator or just get into like you just want to calm down for a second you want to feel that like rest they're in the elevator and austin the son is like why hasn't she killed us yet she could easily just kill us right now like that's that's how powerful she is there's no way out like that perfect organ itself it is but you know what that does is build tension there's this entire movie is just like an alien movie it's your it's there is no breather you're tense the entire time yeah i felt that don't know what's gonna happen but you know something is you know it's there they did a great job of building the atmosphere making a viewer bringing a listener viewer in making them immersed into that situation with tommy and and and his son you know it was to me i felt like I was there I feel like I'll watch it in a dark room and I'm there and I'm like oh my god like yes i felt that too and I was like sitting with my notes my husband sitting next to me on the couch we're watching it together and i told him i even wrote it my notes I was like i can't watch and i told my husband I'm like you might have to just describe to me what's happening so that i can still get what i need but not have to watch because I was just like this on the couch like what's up and it that's how I was but not but i want to say that it's not like you know I'm terrified yeah I'm sure I'm terrified but it's not like uh I'm gonna stop watching this thing like i wanted to see it i wanted to see everything I was just like i can't physically look at it while I'm trying to watch it it was just that kind of like it's the intensity was so much I feel like I'm there I'm in it right now and they did that with the um the parts where lights go out yeah and there's sort of uh um you know the flashlight so you're not seeing everything or the part where they're in the smoke walking through the hallway and you can't see anything but there's like strobe lights kind of an effect going on two shadows over legs every once in a while or somebody's legs you're like they love it so good highly highly intense like i said it's this movie also is an experience this is not just watching a movie you are experiencing what they're like often am i gonna watch an autopsy never but yeah but they're going through like the organs like oh and it's cool to see the board it's cool to see all the stuff i thought they'd do it yeah and they start doing the autopsy so when they're cutting her open that's when really your your uh the dad uh bry cox what was his name in the movie it was tommy I mean austin someone's cutting up cutting up jane doe and he's talking about oh I've seen this and I've seen that and then they open the mouth and like that's about the first moment you're like uh oh like yeah I mean before that they cut they're doing the color of the eyes too and it pops eyes open it's gray you're like gray oh like yeah he's like well usually that's what they look like when they're um but what's interesting they they know even before they do that they know how clean she is yeah and matt said that too because we were both watching them wheel her in and we're like wasn't she found in dirt no she's like clean and like on the outside before they look at anything she looks perfect and then they start cutting her open and there is nothing perfect on the inside of this yeah so many things are adding up and you're like oh my gosh she's a let's go through let's go through so they're cutting her open and all at the same time tommy is basically saying oh I've seen this before and he's going back and forth to books and he's like oh yeah you start seeing that hmm maybe he's fighting with himself and thinking there's something we're going on you got your tongue her tongue got cut out tongue lungs their lungs are burnt up the stars on the inside they figure out her ankles are broken pretty quick and he's like ankles and wrists shattered but no outward bruising or damage just shattered he says at first fractured and then the sun's like no they're shattered and he moves that thing around you're like oh my god that looks I know like oh that's rough and if that's not already weird enough then they start cutting her and that's when we cut open the stomach and he pulls out jimson weed yes now turah is what that is it's the devil's trumpet I know about this this drug yes read the old uh there was a website where you could read about people's trips i never wanted to do it but i loved going and reading about people's the tour trips because of how off they were so for to have this in her system it's a paralyzing agent it also will be hallucinogenic which why is why it was in the love witch given to wane they find out in the toxicology report so there's a connection there exactly and then you've got even further they cut her open you've got the shroud the cloth with the signals on it and uh roman numerals which we know what that goes to but they unwrap it and there's a tooth in there like it's her tooth yeah again using body parts for witchcraft this is just another example of like the way that the love witch uses her urine and her menstrual blood and things like that um animal parts for teeth bones this is stuff that you see a lot of times and used in witchcraft and so yeah it makes total sense to me that there'd be bone or a tooth in there so why would they make her eat her own tooth i guess it's tortured this yep they tortured this woman yes and we find out that later but I don't want to get to the end yet um leading up to that you still got tommy who is not so sure about stuff and then there's a there's a breaking point right about halfway in the movie and what is it the lights go out yeah the storm is supposedly getting worse so the radio is like what's the radio doing you got some info on that radio I think don't you yeah the radio keeps playing a song and when it first comes on they're like it's weird and they try to change the channel because it's like this old song um but i had to look it up because I was like is this song from the movie or is it from before the movie it's from 1954 maguire sisters so let the sun shine in and the lyrics are all about like um don't let the devil get to you you have to smile and be happy and that's how you can keep the devil away and it keeps coming back to the song like three four times in the movie different points like very specific point but yeah it's interesting yeah and then you hear certain things on the radio it's like there's the one thing that pops out it's like you're not getting out of here or whatever he says and the lights go out and finally tommy says let's get the fuck out of here yeah and when he says that it's literally to me that's the moment in the movie where you're like all right if I'm already scared the fact that he just said let's get the fuck out of here yeah oh and that way after being cool comic collecting all the way up until now i better be fucking terrified right because he's the dad right he's the dad and he's been up into this point and that's why it's very interesting i made a note of this in this part when they start kind of panicking a little bit they're like running out of there the dynamic that they chose to use as father and son for this movie is very fascinating to me because you get this idea of like even though it's a grown son grown man the idea is that he's still going to look to his dad for like you know he knows what's going on he's going to protect me he's gonna he's if he keeps his cool then i can keep my cool because I know it'll be okay and you probably have this dynamic dynamic too where the father is like i gotta protect my son i gotta you know um i gotta keep it together for him i gotta be the strong one there's this father son thing that you can't ignore like it's part of the whole ten ness of this moment right the emotion between them it's the it's that they build between the two actors themselves and it comes across on that screen even further when tommy kind of goes back oh I've seen this you know he's still kind of like oh forbes oh that's not possible and that's when austin says a great another line that i picked up on he says we are far past what's possible yeah yeah and at that point another point in the movie you're like we ain't going bad like this is this is this is going where it's going and even all the way now we still don't know she's a witch yeah we don't know what's going on yeah it's just the bodies are missing out of the drawers yeah dad's like okay let's get the fuck out of here like i i admit this is crazy we have to just get it out no let's just go and then they're running through halls and yeah he gets they get trapped in uh i guess an office yes he pulls the curtain back you see a glimpse of her if you really pause it you see a glimpse of somebody standing there there's like the shadow right yeah and he's like oh you're and and at the same time as a viewer you're like oh okay we're good and then he gets fucking snatched yeah he loves parts like that and you see the gray eyeball close up you're like this man like yeah while watching this movie once again the isolation you as a viewer are like i want to get the fuck out of here like you're you're like where i want to get it out of here but where do i go like you're there is no safe spot and like austin said everything that's possible is gone like anything that was not possible is out the window we've seen too much yeah to know there's something weird it kind of flip roles here because now the sun is the one being like you have to accept that this is her going haywire we got to do something about it keeps saying it's her yeah her that's his that's and finally they they do get there like it they realize it's her they find out what's going on and what do they find Courtney? Well i have to point out this is really like uh um old cinema Alfred Hitchcock kind of um way of doing horror movies because it's even more intense or scary when you don't see what's attacking them right and I was told in a cinema class once they were talking about psycho and they were talking about how um the you don't see her you don't see Mrs. Bates you don't see the you see a shadow and that's more terrifying to the audience than if you actually see it and I think that that was like a call to that because you when he when the dad gets pulled into the shadows and you're seeing him getting like banged around and you see just that eye you're not actually seeing her or uh or what it is but you're you're just like yeah something in the dark right i guess really we never really know that it is her no you don't is it one of the bodies is it all in their head is it a spirit of her like what like what like yeah is it in their head like what is going on in there like it's so many layers there's a lot of layers it's really cool i love that kind of stuff in in movies that it it plays with you a lot and it's not just like handing it to you it's not just showing you this is the killer this is watch them stab them i i like it when there's a lot more mystery to it because then my mind fills in the blanks and that's probably worse than anything the movie could show me anyway now this movie was was uh inspired by the conjuring and I don't know if you've seen the but uh the the director of norwegian director andre overda hope I'm correct me and get us and get it actually get us in touch with andre I'd love to talk to him or yeah he and goldberg the writer oh that'd be amazing but he took the inspiration from the conjuring now andre also made a short the troll hunter movie that troll hunter movie uh inspired me to go to iceland so i went to iceland okay yeah there you go thank you for that andre but uh he's he's put together some great experiences and this is an experience for sure itself even filming it would have been an experience they filmed it in chronological order like oh yeah to me you see that it's it's it's evident when you watch it back that it was in chronological order yeah everything is basically growing as the movie goes the the continuity i knew the emotions between the characters the terror torture she got tortured and that's what we find out ends up being uh when they when they get to the roman numerals and they figured this part out and they're looking at the bible verses yeah they find out that the shroud the tooth was in it says 1906 or I mean sorry 1693 on it yes and the the pete um that they found under her nails they're like writing on the board this this is all coming from up north we don't have pete here so um so they kind of pinpoint that it's new england and they're like well she's from you know 15th century new england or something oh 17th century new england and they're like wait a minute yeah what's up with that hey and even me I'm like hey my high school math the numbers don't seem to add up here like there's a couple hundred years missing like there's something yeah so yeah yeah and what do we know about the 17th century new england time period there were a lot of people accused and killed for being witches and even tommy says but they were innocent so she's an innocent and this is where i love the turn that they take when they're figuring out where she came from what happened to her she was tortured and she had witchcraft used against her which supposedly was probably and this is actually what happens a lot in history is witchcraft is used to protect against witchcraft and so what ended up happening is the people who tortured her in this way they ended up creating what they feared she wasn't a witch but now she is well with that amount of torture you have to you have to turn into a vengeful spirit that's what she is we've been through the vengeful witch and this is the half-hanged mary story all over again so we're going to talk about the witch trials and the witch trials from my episode of practically magic or talk about burning and witch trials now also not only do you see him talk about they were all innocent and you know they're they're almost painting the opposite picture of what arthur miller's the crucible does in that in that book you know they say them witch trials or it's a little bit different story yeah in autopsy of jane though it's like a spin on that to say ah they might have been innocent but they're not now yeah you made them this way i love that take I don't know if there's historical reference or whatever in that kind of take that and people torturing a person so much make them a witch courtney how long were you tortured before you turned into a witch well how about this when you consider the witch wound which is that so many were accused of witchcraft just living their lives yeah gaining any type of power whatsoever over their own body over their livelihood over a way to make money over a way to support yourself over a way to uh choose um when and how you want to have a baby all of that stuff is generations upon generations upon generations of women needing to find their place in society and how they can find power so I mean when you consider it that way whether you want to call it witchcraft or whether you want to call it empowerment uh if you're a body who's alive but not alive you're not able to move and be alive you've been tortured into this state and had witchcraft forced upon you shoved into your mouth and into your body surely the shroud and the tooth and the and the string in her mouth and I mean clearly this ritualistic torturing took place and it's not just the torture itself I mean the pain that she probably experienced in being tortured was part of it but the pain or the torture represents all of that oppression that women have had to endure for centuries upon centuries upon centuries even when they want a witch even when they were practicing what we would traditionally call witchcraft yeah so here's the revenge so I mean this is where i hate to say it but I'm liz I'm watching this movie and I'm like i hope nothing happens to tommy and austin they're innocent I'm I'm all like i hope they get out of this alive but when i find out what this poor woman has gone through when i find out what she's had to do to gain any sort of power and that's what she does with that power is she exacts revenge on anyone and everyone yep it just happens to hit these two guys who were just doing their job you're caught in a crossfire and you can't be mad at her like you can't you can't sorry I'm totally with you and i thought the same thing I was like oh please tommy austin get out of it tommy even in he leans down to her and gives in he's like basically I don't want to I don't want to hurt you and from what i gather she transfers her spirit off into his or something into his body his eyes turn gray he's getting all the wounds he starts snapping his bones like it's experiences the torture yeah so he's going through it now was that her passing it off to him is that what that was you know i like to think so I mean it would be kind of cool to see it uh he sacrifices himself to take on all of her transgression or whatever you know that would look like and he ends his life for her and she gets pieced back together she's whole again and I don't know she or uh I don't know what happens to her but she's whole again she's able to heal from this that's not the ending we get it's it's like it's kind of like it just starts over right she just gets put back together for the next person yep so that's open for interpretation does she continue revenging going on her vengeful tour yeah how many people need to die yeah so so or does she continue and then also tommy continue you know there are two spirits split now like two vengeful spirits I don't know but yeah i love that it's open to interpretation we don't get this one up my my my rants about off the dress to women and witchcraft and the correlation I think kind of kind of sums that up really well um but i i did have to look up the leviticus um bible verse that they found in the shroud so that's how they find out what she is they find the the it's a scripture that is on the shroud in the roman numeral numbers tell me about that because I know out there are a million different variations of the bible so which one were they using what's happening when you're googling it it doesn't say exactly what they read at least from the verses that i could find um i it seems like they kind of pulled from a lot of different leviticus like verses and kind of put that together as like witchcraft um but all of these different interpretations of like leviticus 1926 um the one that's in the movie is leviticus 2027 um it says stuff like mediums fortune tellers um people who practice divination and then in some versions they sum that up with witchcraft and uh you know they should be put to death by stoning it's kind of the the general idea of these scriptures which is interesting and i mean leviticus is hard on everybody I don't know if there's anybody that can get away with anything and live it leviticus without being a stone to death so um I don't know you know how much you want to take credit in that but like we follow the bible word for word really because I don't think anybody can do that um but yeah that's interesting because it's like fortune tellers mediums they kind of just lump it all into one when they talk about witchcraft and they're like anybody who does that it's interesting you know also i want to point out too in one of my final thoughts is that when this leviticus bible verse comes up and we're looking at the pages and we finally see witch you see the word witch that's the first time in this movie that the word which has been mentioned that we even it's it's your validity finally at this point because sure all these other things you're like huh that seems kind of yeah like that's him did they burn her who what kind of people do they burn witches like you you start adding it up but it's not until this part when they look at leviticus which is probably what maybe 20 minutes left in the movie and that's when they finally say which and and I think that's a another key moment in the movie uh that yeah it it erases all your doubt oh yeah if you had any by this point uh it's yeah really right and it it just puts it into context and then finally at you're like oh yeah i saw that coming but and other movies where you see stuff coming you're prepared for it you're still not prepared for it you see it coming but now what you don't have anywhere to go you just work with this the rest of this and when you find that kind of stuff out and other movies that's about to end that's it's like over you're done you're like okay cool move on roll the credits not here and yeah it's now what now we know this what do we do about it they tried to destroy her body just by burning her right then and there and it didn't work I mean almost broke the bill they almost broke the bill they're like they almost found the whole thing like it's wild and that's a good movie my voice is loose i ain't losing my voice even more now I think jane does taking in my voice I think that's so so no something's going on but these two movies are incredible uh I'm gonna give one more plug to another movie that i I've seen and ran across that if you like jane doe the autopsy of jane doe you gotta check out this movie called sushi girl girl is uh 2012 it's about a little over a decade old but there's a girl named cortney palm who plays the sushi girl and she does exactly what uh oh what's her name owen does in in uh jane doe and she lays there the entire movie while the text plays around her and it's not witchy or anything like that but I think it's it's very cool because if you know anything about the sushi girls who lay there and the ones who are naked and they let them eat sushi off of them right yeah what's going on in the room with them they are trained to not move and not do anything what's going on around her in this movie in sushi girl is this big gangster meeting and they're talking about all these crimes and it's check that one out if you enjoyed that's fascinating that's good well i since you mentioned that something that brought this movie brought to my um connections a couple of years ago I was at a book club and we needed to take turns picking uh a book and we were um on the non-fiction genre so it was like we got to pick something that's non-fiction and i picked a book stiff by mary roach it's called stiff the curious life of human cadavers and it was absolutely fascinating now cadavers kind of creep me out I think about like what it would be like to actually see one or work on one or um my sister went through a nursing school things like that and they had to go and study cadavers for a semester I was like I don't know how you do it that's that's so disturbing to but this book goes through all the different things that can happen to cadaver after you die when you donate it to science when you donate it to forensic studies when you um when you're cremated when you're um you know all the different options all the different things so it's really well written and um there were some people in my book club that were like not not not not reading that nope too too gross for me or whatever but I was like it's fascinating so plug for that book in connection to the autopsy of jane dow it would be a fascinating read after watching this movie we gotta catch our breath corny yeah two excellent movies and a lot of death a lot of death you even thought that the autopsy of jane dow was an a24 movie because that for sure all these a24 movies we've been watching for the witch movie project and I'm like well when everybody dies it's probably a24 right yeah after this time no I mean they they had the most joyful romps out there you know like happy endings and all you know yeah but i do like how all of them are um even this one all of them very psychological there's a lot more depth to this kind of horror than you typically find with halloween or friday the 13th or something like that yeah honestly honestly uh it is a really true testament and in a uh high remark for you to think that autopsy was an a24 movie because to get i wouldn't be upset if i made a movie and somebody was like oh that's a24 movie and yeah because really it's it they set this atmosphere and it did have that atmosphere and richard nang and ian goldberg the writers man they incredible like incredible I don't want to go we we already talked we picked it apart but i hope this is just me I don't want to I don't want to 26 at novel daybreak by crescent communities presents the witch movie project live podcast taping and movie screening i hope it's all yeah we want to see you there come watch a movie with us right yeah this would be the fun one this would be the one that I think would be an incredible experience if you haven't seen it don't watch it come out see it with us I'm already planning for this to be the movies i can't learn yeah and i can't wait to see what carla does with the decorations and with our um setting things up at lift cake parties has come in to decorate and get the event all set up for us it's gonna be an incredible time like don't forget the costume contest with prizes donated by land of a thousand hills coffee shop I mean that's gonna be wild too like we're gonna have a meet and greet at land of a thousand hills at what five yeah because people gotta get their drinks they uh they serve some beer and ciders there they've got some drinks that are called witch aid and we got some great great stuff over there so people can get their drinks have have their drinks before they head over to the event right yeah let's get on out of here we'll see everybody here next week let's go ahead and give a shout out to our sponsors novel daybreak by crescent communities Prism Healing that's you Courtney Pearl that's me cake parties pure sweat and float studio of south jordan thank you so much stacy millhorn and Ride The Wave Media right here we'll see you guys next week